What would you try next?

[Tilting40s]

Trying to do some load development for a new rifle.

6.5 Creedmoor
Defiance Tenacity Actions
Bartlien 24” 1-8 Twist

H4350
Peterson Brass
CCI200
ELD-M 140g

Below I’ve attached all the targets and loads I’ve tested. Really I haven’t found anything that looks that promising. I think I might do another ladder test between 41-41.3g and see if anything looks good then redo the seating depth test if I find something.

Open to any ideas and thoughts.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Use the powder charge to find a range that gives you good SDs, then tune seating depth to bring in the group.

 

[Tilting40s]

Use the powder charge to find a range that gives you good SDs, then tune seating depth to bring in the group.

41.3g gave me an SD of 5 and 41.5g gave me an SD of 2. Tried a bunch of seating depths with both those charges and nothing better that a little over 1/2 MOA and not consistently 1/2 MOA

 

[spife7980]

Try loading 37-39?
You don’t have to chase velocity to find accuracy

 

[Tilting40s]

 

[Tilting40s]

Try loading 37-39?
You don’t have to chase velocity to find accuracy

39.5g gave me an avg velocity of 2584. I want this gun to shoot out to 1k, wondering if going south of that will provide enough juice.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Tried a bunch of seating depths with both those charges and nothing better that a little over 1/2 MOA and not consistently 1/2 MOA

What was your methodology for running through seating depths? Start, stop, increments, # of shots, etc.?

 

[supercorndogs]

From a POI standpoint I would be looking at 41g. It looks to me like the gun wants to shoot but maybe you are throwing some fliers and not getting back on the gun the same each time.

Man the things we see our American flag being used for, a slop mat on a bench.

 

[Tilting40s]

What was your methodology for running through seating depths? Start, stop, increments, # of shots, etc.?

First ladder testing was done before I notched my feed-ramp and went to a binder-less mag. The longest I could load and function was out to 2.2055 (measured as base to ojive) .056 off lands.

My lands is at 2.2615 (measured as base to ojive). I wanted to test that gap between where I’d shot before and .015 off the lands. So started at 2.2465 and increased in increments of .003

I also tested both 41.3 & 41.5 charge weights side by side at those seating depths to see if there was a clear winner.

I also do 5 shots groups because I’ve shot so many amazing 3 shot groups that fall on there face when I do the 5 shot or 10 shot retest that it feels like I’ve waste my time. I’d rather just take my time and load more rounds than drive back and forth from the range to shoot 15 rounds a bunch of times…..

 

[Tilting40s]

From a POI standpoint I would be looking at 41g. It looks to me like the gun wants to shoot but maybe you are throwing some fliers and not getting back on the gun the same each time.

Man the things we see our American flag being used for, a slop mat on a bench.

Yeah, I’m thinking I should ladder test 41-41.3. The SD at 41g was around 10 and 41.3g was 5, but the POI looks very similar between the two.

I just fell in love with 41.5 because of the 2fps SD. And it’s literally the load that most of the guys shoot. 41.5g, H4350 and 140 ELD-M. Done and done ya know.

And yeah, it’s been a mirage-y couple of session at the range, next week I’ll be able to test in the early AM so maybe things will tighten up just based on conditions?

 

[ShtrRdy]

I wonder if there is something with the hardware that's introducing randomness? You've used good components, although I dont know what stock/chassis that is. A few thoughts:

Is it possible one of the rail mounting screws is bottoming out?

Do the scope ring caps have equal spacing on each side?

Is the scope a known reliable one?

Could try shooting without the brake to prove that isn't a problem.

Is the action bedded into the stock/chassis?

Is the trigger mechanism contacting the stock/chassis?

 

[Bacarrat]

Have you gone hotter? A lot of us shoot above 42gr. 41.5-41.7 is what I could call the lower node. There is one higher at 42.2-42.7 that a lot of people use too. I'm at 42.5 on my last couple of barrels and it doesn't show any pressure issues. Don't get too caught up on SD on small sample sizes. I have gotten SD of 1 or 2 before also on different loads and calibers and they almost never shoot the best even when playing with the seating depths. SDs will change depending on the day, temp, ect.

 

[Tilting40s]

Have you gone hotter? A lot of us shoot above 42gr. 41.5-41.7 is what I could call the lower node. There is one higher at 42.2-42.7 that a lot of people use too. I'm at 42.5 on my last couple of barrels and it doesn't show any pressure issues. Don't get too caught up on SD on small sample sizes. I have gotten SD of 1 or 2 before also on different loads and calibers and they almost never shoot the best even when playing with the seating depths. SDs will change depending on the day, temp, ect.

That might be another play. I’m using Large Rifle Primers, I just don’t won’t to blow out my brass early so I haven’t really looked at that as an option, but maybe it’s where it wants to be?

 

[Tilting40s]

I wonder if there is something with the hardware that's introducing randomness? You've used good components, although I dont know what stock/chassis that is. A few thoughts:

Is it possible one of the rail mounting screws is bottoming out?

Do the scope ring caps have equal spacing on each side?

Is the scope a known reliable one?

Could try shooting without the brake to prove that isn't a problem.

Is the action bedded into the stock/chassis?

Is the trigger mechanism contacting the stock/chassis?

MDT XRS Chassis (aluminum mini chassis)
Vortex Razor Gen 3
Vortex Precision matched rings
*all torques to spec using a wheeler torque wrench.
No movement with scope in rings.

I might try and shoot without the break.

 

[spife7980]

39.5g gave me an avg velocity of 2584. I want this gun to shoot out to 1k, wondering if going south of that will provide enough juice.

I loaded 140 rdfs (up until I ran out last weekend) at 37.8 for 2600 fps and it’s just fine getting to 1k

Looking at your graph, I’d load 41-41.5 in .1 increments at 2.275 (that’s circled above the bad mirage comment but different from the rest of your notes) and shoot them on paper at 500. It’s pretty consistent right there on your targets and while you may not make pretty round holes at 100 you may be just fine with its performance at distance.

 

[CK1.0]

I agree with @ShtrRdy... I don't believe in any of that magic charge/node lore and think your groups just look like something isn't squared away as far as being stable or maybe with your trigger-pull/follow-through..? Many of those groups have 3 out of 5 touching, so I'd look at them with an Occam's razor point of view.

Were you shooting off a wooden bench connected to other shooters bumping into them? Too much wind? Trigger set too heavy? Do you just need to get better at shooting groups? ...shit like that...

I doubt it has anything to do with how many kernels of powder or how many thou you're off the lands or whatever...

 

[acudaowner]

try or not I enjoyed shooting 41.5 gr of h4350 more than using less I was getting single diget sd's ended up at 41.9gr higher sd's closser to my goal speeds , I also did that so I could use 41.9 gr of imr 4350 and the speeds end up really close to the same , you could also try different primers and while it's mostly a personal thing I disliked winchester lrp because of all the delayed fires and just rotten sd's and throughly enjoyed federal , cci , and fiocchi primers . we now have those .. unis genex perimers heard they are hard cupped like those cci 41's but still need to try em .best pf luck to you getting your loads just the way you like em .

 

[Doom]

You have a nice powder range in the 41.0 to 41. 3 range. 41.3 to 41.5 is not a place to be as the POI has shifted. Put the MS in the case and leave it there unless you are only interested in where the velocity is. You don't have enough shots at any charge to determine the SD with any confidence and absolutely not enough to compare the sd's between different loads/seating depths.

 

[Tilting40s]

I agree with @ShtrRdy... I don't believe in any of that magic charge/node lore and think your groups just look like something isn't squared away as far as being stable or maybe with your trigger-pull/follow-through..? Many of those groups have 3 out of 5 touching, so I'd look at them with an Occam's razor point of view.

Were you shooting off a wooden bench connected to other shooters bumping into them? Too much wind? Trigger set too heavy? Do you just need to get better at shooting groups? ...shit like that...

I doubt it has anything to do with how many kernels of powder or how many thou you're off the lands or whatever...

A. I’ve checked and re-checked the hardware. Although I’ve not shot without the muzzle break so it could be an issue……

B. Used the same ring/Scope combo and same Bench with my Savage 110 Precision and was able to get these out of in. So I know I can shoot OK. I haven’t had a chance to get to the range in AM before there is mirage and wind, but at 100 I’m not totally convinced it would effect shots that much? But who knows. All good things to think about

 

[vz_send_it]

39.5g gave me an avg velocity of 2584. I want this gun to shoot out to 1k, wondering if going south of that will provide enough juice.

I took a 139gr Lapua/39.7gr H4350 load to 1,000 yards with good results. I didn't really want to go that low on velocity, but I was getting consistent SDs at 5.0 and 1/2 MOA groups. I averaged 2,575 fps from a 22" barrel at about 70 degrees. This charge was outperforming everything else I tried, so I just went with it. If I was using it for competition, I would probably be less confident with the lower velocities, but, then again, I'd probably lean towards a flatter shooting caliber, anyway. So, my experience was that the lower velocity load still had enough juice. I shot better than the guy next to me who was getting in the 2,700 fps range out of his load (also 6.5 Creedmoor).

 

[Baron23]

While I’m willing to be schooled by my betters, I see no reason why charge weight will result in better or worse SD’s. I think good SD result directly from absolute consistency in reloading and SD derived from small data sets are meaningless.

Keep shooting and chrono’ing those same charge weights and watch the SD come into much closer alignment (and watch that 2 fps SD grow into 10 fps).

Also, I’ve never heard a convincing explanation of how, all other things being equal, an increasing amount of propellant will result in a “velocity flat spot”. Inconsistent reloading coupled with a too small data set give rise, IMO, to this apparent phenomenon but it’s not real.

Flame on. Lol

 

[diggler1833]

Adding to the flame fuel: You may just have a bullet/powder that your individual barrel doesn't prefer.

The only reason I suggest this is because it looks like the factory 120gr Superformance did almost as well...and it does not have a reputation for excellent accuracy.

I'm sitting on ~(400) 130gr AR OTM Bergers that I couldn't get better than .5s in both of my 6.5x47s. Used powders that both barrels shot well too. Fortunately, both barrels have two different bullets that they hammer with...and one of those bullets is supposedly difficult to get to shoot (130gr Norma).

 

[Tilting40s]

Adding to the flame fuel: You may just have a bullet/powder that your individual barrel doesn't prefer.

The only reason I suggest this is because it looks like the factory 120gr Superformance did almost as well...and it does not have a reputation for excellent accuracy.

I'm sitting on ~(400) 130gr AR OTM Bergers that I couldn't get better than .5s in both of my 6.5x47s. Used powders that both barrels shot well too. Fortunately, both barrels have two different bullets that they hammer with...and one of those bullets is supposedly difficult to get to shoot (130gr Norma).

I’m ganna give it one more go with the ELD-M and if no beans I’ll try the SMK 142s.