what are the key differences between the savage fcp-k and the rem 700sps tactical? what one out of the box ussualy has a better moa? does remington had an equivalent to the acu trigger and acu stock? or will i have to pillar and glass bed the remington? do either of them group less than .5 moa out of the box?
- Thread starter buggley
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Re: whats the difference
Yes, yes,yes,no,yes. Now try the search function, it has all the answers you are looking for. Since these questions are asked almost daily, you'll find a plethora of info.
Yes, yes,yes,no,yes. Now try the search function, it has all the answers you are looking for. Since these questions are asked almost daily, you'll find a plethora of info.
Re: whats the difference
well, the Remington has a Hogue overmold stock, which, when one loads the bipod (or puts any pressure on the bipod), the stock touches the barrel. Replacing that stock is not paramount but if you want to shoot small groups, it damn sure is. The fcp-k, well, that is a beast. I own two of them, one in .308, the other in .223. The accustock is nothing to write home about but it sure as shit beats the Hogue. Not to mention, these barrels are nice and heavy and have a muzzle brake to boot (the .223 has recoil tantamount to a pellet gun). My fcp-k's are amazing shooters! I really like the look of the SPS-T's, but I am a Savage whore through and through. My cash will always go to Savage.
About them grouping sub .5moa out of the box...I am almost quite certain the fcp-k could do it, but I am not that good of a driver. Isn't that standard a little high for a factory gun anyhow?
well, the Remington has a Hogue overmold stock, which, when one loads the bipod (or puts any pressure on the bipod), the stock touches the barrel. Replacing that stock is not paramount but if you want to shoot small groups, it damn sure is. The fcp-k, well, that is a beast. I own two of them, one in .308, the other in .223. The accustock is nothing to write home about but it sure as shit beats the Hogue. Not to mention, these barrels are nice and heavy and have a muzzle brake to boot (the .223 has recoil tantamount to a pellet gun). My fcp-k's are amazing shooters! I really like the look of the SPS-T's, but I am a Savage whore through and through. My cash will always go to Savage.
About them grouping sub .5moa out of the box...I am almost quite certain the fcp-k could do it, but I am not that good of a driver. Isn't that standard a little high for a factory gun anyhow?
Re: whats the difference
Let me be the first to tell you that if you look around a bit you will find tones of information about this. That said, I will answer your questions in the order you asked them.
Q1, Which shoots better out of the box?
There is really no way to definitively know which rifle will shoot better out of the box. Sometimes you get a clunker and sometimes a nail driver. However, between these two rifles, the Savage is likely to shoot slightly better out of the box. It has a slightly better stock and slightly better trigger. But this does not mean it is the better option.
Q2, Does Remington have an accu-trigger/stock?
No, because they don't need one. Something that you need to realize is that Remington understands that one huge reason people choose their rifles is the unmatched aftermarket. Most of the people that buy the 700 intend on changing it into their own rifle. Mine for instance has a different trigger and stock. If you choose the 700 yours will probably be customized they way you want it. Furthermore, The aftermarket parts that are available for the 700 are superior to the accu-trigger/stock that Savage uses. I personally own a Savage with both accu-accessories and they are not nearly as good as the aftermarket stock/trigger on my 700.
Q3, Do I have to bed the Remington?
Bedding that plastic stock that the 700 comes in is a total waist of time, money, and energy. This is because you will more then likely be replacing it with something much better. The accu-stock Savage, on the other hand, you are stuck with that stock. Because of the positioning of the mag release and action screws it really doesn't work with any of the aftermarket stock available for Savage rifles.
Q4, Do ether of the rifles shoot less than .5moa out of the box?
Not sure why this magic number is so important to you. The answer is probably not. My Remington shoots under a half minute with quality hand loaded ammo and sitting in an AICS. My accu-Savage shoots closer to .75moa with hand loads.
Q5, Which rifle is <span style="font-style: italic">better</span>? (this is the question you actually wanted to ask but didn't come right out and say it)
It depends on your definition of the term <span style="font-style: italic">better</span> If you don't want to do anything to the rifle and just shoot it once in a while then you may be better off with the Savage. However, if you want a rifle that you can change to better fulfill you needs and preferences as you grow and improve as a shooter then the Remington is probably a better fit for you.
My own personal observation:
Judging by the way you asked your questions your probably quite new to this and that's totally fine. One thing you need to understand is that you can't just pick up any old rifle, go out to the range, and shoot amazingly small groups all day long with any old ammo you happen to buy at the store.
Let me be the first to tell you that if you look around a bit you will find tones of information about this. That said, I will answer your questions in the order you asked them.
Q1, Which shoots better out of the box?
There is really no way to definitively know which rifle will shoot better out of the box. Sometimes you get a clunker and sometimes a nail driver. However, between these two rifles, the Savage is likely to shoot slightly better out of the box. It has a slightly better stock and slightly better trigger. But this does not mean it is the better option.
Q2, Does Remington have an accu-trigger/stock?
No, because they don't need one. Something that you need to realize is that Remington understands that one huge reason people choose their rifles is the unmatched aftermarket. Most of the people that buy the 700 intend on changing it into their own rifle. Mine for instance has a different trigger and stock. If you choose the 700 yours will probably be customized they way you want it. Furthermore, The aftermarket parts that are available for the 700 are superior to the accu-trigger/stock that Savage uses. I personally own a Savage with both accu-accessories and they are not nearly as good as the aftermarket stock/trigger on my 700.
Q3, Do I have to bed the Remington?
Bedding that plastic stock that the 700 comes in is a total waist of time, money, and energy. This is because you will more then likely be replacing it with something much better. The accu-stock Savage, on the other hand, you are stuck with that stock. Because of the positioning of the mag release and action screws it really doesn't work with any of the aftermarket stock available for Savage rifles.
Q4, Do ether of the rifles shoot less than .5moa out of the box?
Not sure why this magic number is so important to you. The answer is probably not. My Remington shoots under a half minute with quality hand loaded ammo and sitting in an AICS. My accu-Savage shoots closer to .75moa with hand loads.
Q5, Which rifle is <span style="font-style: italic">better</span>? (this is the question you actually wanted to ask but didn't come right out and say it)
It depends on your definition of the term <span style="font-style: italic">better</span> If you don't want to do anything to the rifle and just shoot it once in a while then you may be better off with the Savage. However, if you want a rifle that you can change to better fulfill you needs and preferences as you grow and improve as a shooter then the Remington is probably a better fit for you.
My own personal observation:
Judging by the way you asked your questions your probably quite new to this and that's totally fine. One thing you need to understand is that you can't just pick up any old rifle, go out to the range, and shoot amazingly small groups all day long with any old ammo you happen to buy at the store.
Re: whats the difference
thank you for the response the question that i didnt want to outright ask was wich rifle is upgraded cheapest or not even needed. i do very little improving to my rifles simply because yes i am still new to this and as far as tools well i have used small alens for punches and i own a corded black and decker drill. in time i plan to upgrade my rifle but time could be a year or a month .5 isnt so much the magic number as much as the idea that if i can find or build up to that type of moa it will make coyote hunting in the heavy wooded west virginia that much easier to place a shot even after you take shooter error in to effect. yes probably the wrong idea for this type of forum but for now that is as tactical as i need to be. i simply want a good starter that either doesnt need to be improved much or a rifle that i could build up for around 1200$
thank you for the response the question that i didnt want to outright ask was wich rifle is upgraded cheapest or not even needed. i do very little improving to my rifles simply because yes i am still new to this and as far as tools well i have used small alens for punches and i own a corded black and decker drill. in time i plan to upgrade my rifle but time could be a year or a month .5 isnt so much the magic number as much as the idea that if i can find or build up to that type of moa it will make coyote hunting in the heavy wooded west virginia that much easier to place a shot even after you take shooter error in to effect. yes probably the wrong idea for this type of forum but for now that is as tactical as i need to be. i simply want a good starter that either doesnt need to be improved much or a rifle that i could build up for around 1200$
Re: whats the difference
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njlohmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Q3, Do I have to bed the Remington?
Bedding that plastic stock that the 700 comes in is a total waist of time, money, and energy. This is because you will more then likely be replacing it with something much better. The accu-stock Savage, on the other hand, you are stuck with that stock. Because of the positioning of the mag release and action screws it really doesn't work with any of the aftermarket stock available for Savage rifles.
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This is untrue, my Savage 10 FCP-K sits in a McMillan A5 and there are a number of other stocks that work with the new mag release and action screws.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njlohmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Q3, Do I have to bed the Remington?
Bedding that plastic stock that the 700 comes in is a total waist of time, money, and energy. This is because you will more then likely be replacing it with something much better. The accu-stock Savage, on the other hand, you are stuck with that stock. Because of the positioning of the mag release and action screws it really doesn't work with any of the aftermarket stock available for Savage rifles.
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This is untrue, my Savage 10 FCP-K sits in a McMillan A5 and there are a number of other stocks that work with the new mag release and action screws.
Re: whats the difference
If you want to shoot coyotes in the woods, you want a handy rifle. I think you should get a rem 700 sps tactical and sell the hogue stock for $40 and buy a BC stock, probably the m40a1 model for $220. Then get a weaver 3-10 ffp from midway for $300. You will be able to hunt and target shoot out to 1000yds with that set up.
Do you already have a scope?
If you want to shoot coyotes in the woods, you want a handy rifle. I think you should get a rem 700 sps tactical and sell the hogue stock for $40 and buy a BC stock, probably the m40a1 model for $220. Then get a weaver 3-10 ffp from midway for $300. You will be able to hunt and target shoot out to 1000yds with that set up.
Do you already have a scope?
Re: whats the difference
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thank you for the response the question that i didnt want to outright ask was wich rifle is upgraded cheapest or not even needed. i do very little improving to my rifles simply because yes i am still new to this and as far as tools well i have used small alens for punches and i own a corded black and decker drill. in time i plan to upgrade my rifle but time could be a year or a month <span style="color: #CC0000">.5 isnt so much the magic number as much as the idea that if i can find or build up to that type of moa it will make coyote hunting in the heavy wooded west virginia that much easier to place a shot </span>even after you take shooter error in to effect. yes probably the wrong idea for this type of forum but for now that is as tactical as i need to be. i simply want a good starter that either doesnt need to be improved much or a rifle that i could build up for around 1200$ </div></div>
This is the disease that so many would be rifle shooters suffer from today, allowing their money to slip freely from their fingers in the pursuit of accuracy they can scarcely measure. Unless your coyotes are the size of chihuahuas any centerfire bolt action rifle you can walk in a store and buy would probably be sufficient for the task you have laid forth here. A coyote reasonably has a 6inch kill zone, depending on one's personal ethics on vermin that could be much larger. You don't need 1/2MOA accuracy to kill a coyote at even 400yds. No amount of instilled accuracy in a rifle will make up for the lack of skill at the trigger. The margin of error can never be reduced enough to compensate for lack of talent. Buy a good rifle and learn to shoot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thank you for the response the question that i didnt want to outright ask was wich rifle is upgraded cheapest or not even needed. i do very little improving to my rifles simply because yes i am still new to this and as far as tools well i have used small alens for punches and i own a corded black and decker drill. in time i plan to upgrade my rifle but time could be a year or a month <span style="color: #CC0000">.5 isnt so much the magic number as much as the idea that if i can find or build up to that type of moa it will make coyote hunting in the heavy wooded west virginia that much easier to place a shot </span>even after you take shooter error in to effect. yes probably the wrong idea for this type of forum but for now that is as tactical as i need to be. i simply want a good starter that either doesnt need to be improved much or a rifle that i could build up for around 1200$ </div></div>
This is the disease that so many would be rifle shooters suffer from today, allowing their money to slip freely from their fingers in the pursuit of accuracy they can scarcely measure. Unless your coyotes are the size of chihuahuas any centerfire bolt action rifle you can walk in a store and buy would probably be sufficient for the task you have laid forth here. A coyote reasonably has a 6inch kill zone, depending on one's personal ethics on vermin that could be much larger. You don't need 1/2MOA accuracy to kill a coyote at even 400yds. No amount of instilled accuracy in a rifle will make up for the lack of skill at the trigger. The margin of error can never be reduced enough to compensate for lack of talent. Buy a good rifle and learn to shoot.
Re: whats the difference
I own a FCP-K .308 and I'm extremely pleased with it. I don't shoot anywhere close to .5 moa. I'm shaky and I have a huge lack of trigger time. My friend, who shoots all the time shot it and it was really accurate. He beat my shooting with his old 30-30 and a mediocre scope. I think you will be pleased with the Savage but a lot of it is practice and god given talent.
I own a FCP-K .308 and I'm extremely pleased with it. I don't shoot anywhere close to .5 moa. I'm shaky and I have a huge lack of trigger time. My friend, who shoots all the time shot it and it was really accurate. He beat my shooting with his old 30-30 and a mediocre scope. I think you will be pleased with the Savage but a lot of it is practice and god given talent.
Re: whats the difference
i am a fair shot though i dont have much to compair to.i know that at 100 yards with open sights i have no problem buurst small water jugs with my k31 and at 175 i can hit a larger gatoraid jug open sights nearly every shot. again i have never really tried to group in at a distance nor with a scope. talent is one thing but i have noticed no matter how good you are trying to sight in a cheapo tasco scope never works as well as a leupold what you bring to the table makes a big difference. i simply wanted yo know the difrences between the m10 fcp and the m10 fcp-k along side a rem 700 sps tac. i fully understand most people on here are hold thems selves over par and have a much broader knowledge of what makes a productive shooter but for me right now with the tools i have the space and budget i will stick to finding the most accurate rifle i can so i have to spend less on it late mentality. this is not to say that i will never improver or that i narrow mindedly feel that a rifleman is only as good as the rifle or that accuracy is simply relevant to twistrate and a price tag. it simply means that for now i dont have a place to work on a rifle or the means to drop 800$ for a stock the 400$ for a bolt then 800$ for a barrel 200$ for the trigger assembaly then anothe 800* for a low end zies scope. i was hoping that on this sight i might be directed simply to what i am looking for rather than playing duck duck goose hope the one good response does try in the end to bite me in th @#$. if there is a good rifle to start with that would limmet excess cost down the road that one day i could work down to teeny tiny ity bity groups sub .5 moa where would i look. if the rifle were so important simo hayha would have been shot day one, considering the rifle he turned down simply because he prefered the length of his own, and the iron sights would have compounded the situation. i am not intrested in waisting money so if there is any advice you have to help me keep cost low/lowe and still come away with product i am looking for that would be great.
i am a fair shot though i dont have much to compair to.i know that at 100 yards with open sights i have no problem buurst small water jugs with my k31 and at 175 i can hit a larger gatoraid jug open sights nearly every shot. again i have never really tried to group in at a distance nor with a scope. talent is one thing but i have noticed no matter how good you are trying to sight in a cheapo tasco scope never works as well as a leupold what you bring to the table makes a big difference. i simply wanted yo know the difrences between the m10 fcp and the m10 fcp-k along side a rem 700 sps tac. i fully understand most people on here are hold thems selves over par and have a much broader knowledge of what makes a productive shooter but for me right now with the tools i have the space and budget i will stick to finding the most accurate rifle i can so i have to spend less on it late mentality. this is not to say that i will never improver or that i narrow mindedly feel that a rifleman is only as good as the rifle or that accuracy is simply relevant to twistrate and a price tag. it simply means that for now i dont have a place to work on a rifle or the means to drop 800$ for a stock the 400$ for a bolt then 800$ for a barrel 200$ for the trigger assembaly then anothe 800* for a low end zies scope. i was hoping that on this sight i might be directed simply to what i am looking for rather than playing duck duck goose hope the one good response does try in the end to bite me in th @#$. if there is a good rifle to start with that would limmet excess cost down the road that one day i could work down to teeny tiny ity bity groups sub .5 moa where would i look. if the rifle were so important simo hayha would have been shot day one, considering the rifle he turned down simply because he prefered the length of his own, and the iron sights would have compounded the situation. i am not intrested in waisting money so if there is any advice you have to help me keep cost low/lowe and still come away with product i am looking for that would be great.
Re: whats the difference
I thought I had answered you very succinctly but I will try to make it clearer.
either rifle will serve you well if all you intend to do is hunt coyote in the woods till you can build a nother rifle aroun the one you are thinking of buying now. both rifles can be rebuilt in some shape form and fashion till they shoot much better than most folks can shoot. a savage can be built with minimum tools a remington cant you need a gunsmith to build a remington a savage can be put together by a caveman with a rock and two pointy sticks. i prefer remington but savages have their pluses. either one will be a good by
I thought I had answered you very succinctly but I will try to make it clearer.
either rifle will serve you well if all you intend to do is hunt coyote in the woods till you can build a nother rifle aroun the one you are thinking of buying now. both rifles can be rebuilt in some shape form and fashion till they shoot much better than most folks can shoot. a savage can be built with minimum tools a remington cant you need a gunsmith to build a remington a savage can be put together by a caveman with a rock and two pointy sticks. i prefer remington but savages have their pluses. either one will be a good by
Re: whats the difference
The Savage MOA is exactly the same as the Remington MOA, which, by coincidence is exactly the same as the howa MOA and the winchester MOA.
The Savage MOA is exactly the same as the Remington MOA, which, by coincidence is exactly the same as the howa MOA and the winchester MOA.
Re: whats the difference
and tikka MOA, lol
and tikka MOA, lol
Re: whats the difference
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njlohmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The accu-stock Savage, on the other hand, you are stuck with that stock. Because of the positioning of the mag release and action screws it really doesn't work with any of the aftermarket stock available for Savage rifles.
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Negative. Mine rests, rather peacefully, in a beautiful XLR Evolution. Also, the Mcmillan A5 works with it as well. There is a reason Remington's have such a high volume of aftermarket support...because they need it!!!!
ZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ETA: Please don't kill me, please don't kill me!!!! HA HA!!! I own a Rem 700 too (lowers head, tucks tail between legs...)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njlohmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The accu-stock Savage, on the other hand, you are stuck with that stock. Because of the positioning of the mag release and action screws it really doesn't work with any of the aftermarket stock available for Savage rifles.
</div></div>
Negative. Mine rests, rather peacefully, in a beautiful XLR Evolution. Also, the Mcmillan A5 works with it as well. There is a reason Remington's have such a high volume of aftermarket support...because they need it!!!!
ZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ETA: Please don't kill me, please don't kill me!!!! HA HA!!! I own a Rem 700 too (lowers head, tucks tail between legs...)
Re: whats the difference
thank you! that does help alot sound like we will be going witha savage. also i have heard that savag can be rebarreled with out any gunsmithing it just screws on is that true? i could have a .243 .223 and .308 all with one action and stock just need to swap out barrels?
thank you! that does help alot sound like we will be going witha savage. also i have heard that savag can be rebarreled with out any gunsmithing it just screws on is that true? i could have a .243 .223 and .308 all with one action and stock just need to swap out barrels?
Re: whats the difference
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thank you! that does help alot sound like we will be going witha savage. also i have heard that savag can be rebarreled with out any gunsmithing it just screws on is that true? i could have a .243 .223 and .308 all with one action and stock just need to swap out barrels?
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ummmm...I am certainly no gunsmith- you can swap barrels easily with Savages, but as far as only doing that for a .243, .223 and .308 is not realistic. You would need to change bolt faces, minimum, between the .308 and .223 (don't know about the others)...also, I believe there is a difference in the magazine sizes between those calibers. Maybe someone who knows this for certain will chime in. Just staring at my .223 and .308 bolt faces and can tell there is a significant difference in those two. As far as barrel swaps go, just need the right tools, can be ordered from sharpshooterssupply. Go with Savage, you'll like the accu-trigger once you shoot it a bit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thank you! that does help alot sound like we will be going witha savage. also i have heard that savag can be rebarreled with out any gunsmithing it just screws on is that true? i could have a .243 .223 and .308 all with one action and stock just need to swap out barrels?
</div></div>
ummmm...I am certainly no gunsmith- you can swap barrels easily with Savages, but as far as only doing that for a .243, .223 and .308 is not realistic. You would need to change bolt faces, minimum, between the .308 and .223 (don't know about the others)...also, I believe there is a difference in the magazine sizes between those calibers. Maybe someone who knows this for certain will chime in. Just staring at my .223 and .308 bolt faces and can tell there is a significant difference in those two. As far as barrel swaps go, just need the right tools, can be ordered from sharpshooterssupply. Go with Savage, you'll like the accu-trigger once you shoot it a bit.
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