How far do you have to be shooting for a wind meter to be necessary? If your at one location and the wind is different +300 plus yards out,how does that factor in?
This is the wind meter I have below.
This is the wind meter I have below.
- Thread starter Bridgebuilder34
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As you point out, the kestrel only catches wind at your location, at whatever height you hold it at. What the wind may be doing at at the max ordinance or close to the target can be completely different.
The kestrel is just a starting point. You need to be able to read the terrain and look for clues as to what the wind may be doing downrange. How will the terrain effect the wind? Is there vegetation that may act as a wind buffer? Will the terrain amplify wind effects? What's happening around max ordinance? What clues is the vegetation giving me? Is there any mirage to read?
Use the clues to piece together a wind call. Spot your impact - where did it go in relation to your POA? Is there clues such as flying dust/debris from your impact (or others)?
I would argue that your ability to "read" the wind using clues around you and downrange is more important than a wind meter that captures a single wind vector at a single location.
The kestrel is just a starting point. You need to be able to read the terrain and look for clues as to what the wind may be doing downrange. How will the terrain effect the wind? Is there vegetation that may act as a wind buffer? Will the terrain amplify wind effects? What's happening around max ordinance? What clues is the vegetation giving me? Is there any mirage to read?
Use the clues to piece together a wind call. Spot your impact - where did it go in relation to your POA? Is there clues such as flying dust/debris from your impact (or others)?
I would argue that your ability to "read" the wind using clues around you and downrange is more important than a wind meter that captures a single wind vector at a single location.
As eloquently stated above, the meter is a clue to the wind puzzle, not the answer.
Your wind meter can help you get really good at reading clues if you practice with it.
Different types of vegetation will react to wind differently. More porous vegetation will require more wind to move and sway then less porous vegetation.
For example, a tree with a high amount of big broad leaves will be affected by the wind more than a deciduous tree without leaves, or a tree with few small leaves that are very spaced out. In my area, vegetation such as Italian cypresses and eucalyptus trees will sway with less wind then Palo Verdes without leaves. Palm trees require little wind to sway and move as well.
Go around with your kestrel on days with different wind speeds and gusts and determine how much wind it takes for your local and native vegetation to respond to that wind. Take plenty of notes. What was the wind doing when a specific tree species canopy moved? What was the wind speed to make a long native grass bend over? What wind speed caused a trees individual leaves to start moving?
If you get a good understanding of the above, then you can get really good at wind reading, and those clues down range will reveal a lot more information to you. If you see a specific type of tree canopy swaying downrange, and you know it takes 13 mph winds to do that, then you will be way ahead of the average shooter on here.
Different types of vegetation will react to wind differently. More porous vegetation will require more wind to move and sway then less porous vegetation.
For example, a tree with a high amount of big broad leaves will be affected by the wind more than a deciduous tree without leaves, or a tree with few small leaves that are very spaced out. In my area, vegetation such as Italian cypresses and eucalyptus trees will sway with less wind then Palo Verdes without leaves. Palm trees require little wind to sway and move as well.
Go around with your kestrel on days with different wind speeds and gusts and determine how much wind it takes for your local and native vegetation to respond to that wind. Take plenty of notes. What was the wind doing when a specific tree species canopy moved? What was the wind speed to make a long native grass bend over? What wind speed caused a trees individual leaves to start moving?
If you get a good understanding of the above, then you can get really good at wind reading, and those clues down range will reveal a lot more information to you. If you see a specific type of tree canopy swaying downrange, and you know it takes 13 mph winds to do that, then you will be way ahead of the average shooter on here.
And when you look at terrain, understand that wind is a fluid. It's going to move through the terrain like water.
Are there features that are going to block the wind? Amplify the wind? Cause it to change directions? Or cause an updraft, like at the lip of a canyon?
This all takes intentional practice to get good at. But it will certainly help interpret what is occurring with the wind and make you a better wind "reader".
Are there features that are going to block the wind? Amplify the wind? Cause it to change directions? Or cause an updraft, like at the lip of a canyon?
This all takes intentional practice to get good at. But it will certainly help interpret what is occurring with the wind and make you a better wind "reader".
I guess it depends on how good you are at guessing wind speed and all-around wind-reading?
You can be off 2-3 tenths or more at only 100 yards if there's a 90-degree 20ishMPH crosswind.
Wind-reading is the "hard part" of long-range shooting, the deepest part of the weeds.
I find that using a wind meter is a good teaching aid for gaining a feel for what the actual wind speeds are, as compared to what you think they are... I find I've gotten better at it with the visual confirmation.
For me, before I used a wind meter regularly, I tended to almost always guess too much when it came to wind speed.
Shooting 22LR will quickly teach you that no bullet ever truly flies straight
https://weatherflow.com/precision-shooting-meter/ $99
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/strelok-pro/id525429653 $11.99
$110.99. Or just buy Strelok Pro and learn to read wind. I generally use my WeatherFlow for temps, humidity, and inHg. Or just get DA.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/strelok-pro/id525429653 $11.99
$110.99. Or just buy Strelok Pro and learn to read wind. I generally use my WeatherFlow for temps, humidity, and inHg. Or just get DA.
Another great resource here that touches on what @kthomas is talking about:
SmokeJumper FireWX Wind PDF
This PDF is from the Smoker Jumpers out west on how they look at winds when fighting fires.
www.snipershide.com Click the orange download button for the PDF on that page.
Calypso Mini Ultrasonic Wind and Direction Meters are pretty slick - No moving parts. Think there is one for sale in PX
Or if you want to splurge check out the Wind Zero system
Or if you want to splurge check out the Wind Zero system
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The Weatherflow Windmeter + Strelok Pro... ~$112 (plus your average ~$1000 smartphone).
It does everything a $900 Kestrel 5700X will do, except, instead of being a total pain in the ass to use and having a shitty little screen like a $10 Casio watch from the early 1980's... it's easy as hell, and you use a modern touchscreen with colors and shit lol.
Not quite everything; when it's very hot and the phone shuts down or locks up or very cold and the battery doesn't work on the smartphone the Kestrel still works.
The Weatherflow Windmeter + Strelok Pro... ~$112 (plus your average ~$1000 smartphone).
It does everything a $900 Kestrel 5700X will do, except, instead of being a total pain in the ass to use and having a shitty little screen like a $10 Casio watch from the early 1980's... it's easy as hell, and you use a modern touchscreen with colors and shit lol.
That being said I prefer the smartphone and Strelok Pro for my regular use.
Still use the old-school method to estimate wind and plug the numbers into my Strelok.
I see a lot of guys using the 5700 kestrel. Instead of the 5000. Should I return this one and upgrade to the 5700 later?
People use the 5700 because of the built in ballistics software.
Some people are perfectly happy running their ballistics off their phone. The downside to this is that your phone may be exposed to harsh conditions which it may or may not work well in. Cellphones don't like being wet, have a tendency to shut down if they get too hot, and there's always a potential to break a screen if you drop it. Battery life usually isn't great either.
A kestrel is built to withstand the elements, and they easily survive drops. Battery life is good as well.
A kestrel 5700 is a great investment if you spend any time shooting in adverse conditions.
You do you, but IMHO just return the Kestrel altogether, because if you're like the rest of us, you probably walk around with a powerful mini computer in your pocket 24/7.
IMHO the main thing the Kestrel is useful for is as an "on-site weather station" and to help one measure wind speed, a $100 Weatherflow does these same things and with communicate via Bluetooth with just about any phone and more than a few different solver Apps.
Fair point.
I actually did have my iPhone get KIA at the GAP Grind a couple of years back after going prone in 6-8" of water with it in my pocket... so there's that lol. A $5 "cell phone dry sleeve bag" from Acadamy or wherever would have prevented that though lol.
Never had an issue with the battery, or hot/cold shutdowns though.
As a new 5700Elite user, it depends on your budget and commitment to learn the Kestrel interface and all the other supporting pieces like actual range, solid dope, and precise environmental evaluation. A fully integrated system from observation to corrections on the rifle scope (dialed or held) is the goal. It’s a system that requires each step to be learned and practiced. More $$$$ allows better electronic integration at each step, but still requires training and practice. What are you trying to accomplish? Are the results life and death important? Are you obsessed with pro level performance and easy comfort with the process? Or just banging long range steel a few times a year? Strelok works well. An unintegrated process works ok when time is not critical. It is also fine if your skill, gun system and ammo is not pro level competitive. At the top every 5% makes a difference. Only you can decide how deep you will go to be objectively awesome. Most of the shooters who get there are deliberate, focused, obsessive folks who keep grinding long after most people lose interest. Or like me, won a Kestrel, and don’t want to see a lazy fuck in the mirror.
I've had my phone shut down in really hot conditions - but using it for things other thing ballistics (I have my kestrel for that). I do live in the desert though.
You can totally use a phone for this purpose, and it can be the cheaper way of getting the same results as you suggest. But there's definitely some downsides to using a phone for this application - but for some it's definitely workable.
Knowing me I would definitely fuck my phone up
I think what works best truly depends on the individual, and is kind of "a moving target" as new things come on the scene.
Personally, having tried most of what's out there, I find Strelok Pro the easiest and most straightforward to use, so I use that. I'm sure other things may work better for other guys and that's fine too.
I wouldn't mind picking up a fancy Kestrel from a prize table too lol, not sure I'd buy one these days though...
Personally, having tried most of what's out there, I find Strelok Pro the easiest and most straightforward to use, so I use that. I'm sure other things may work better for other guys and that's fine too.
I wouldn't mind picking up a fancy Kestrel from a prize table too lol, not sure I'd buy one these days though...
I don’t have any wind meter. When I was at the long range precision shooting course, the only meter there was the instructor’s. We were on a 600+ yard range in central Kansas and used vegetation, mirage, and other “flags” and indicators to judge wind. For part of the course, the instructor went downrange and measured wind at different distances. We were to record what we thought it was, when he raised his hand. Afterwards, we compared out readings to the actual measurement. It was very informative, but the wind here is tough. It can be whipping shit like crazy and suddenly stop, then just be a slight breeze.
If you want to practice wind calling, shoot Rimfire to 350 or so on big paper.
Lately, it feels like guys push rimfire like crack in the '80's lol.
I don't want to shoot rimfire. There I said it lol.
I belong to a club that goes out to 1250 yards that takes me an hour plus and an hour plus back to get to, so I might as well shoot cartridges that recoil like real guns instead of not at all (like a 20+LB NRL22 .22LR doesn't), at targets way the fuck out there lol.
I feel like getting into rimfire would be a poor quality of life decision for me.
To me, it's almost like... for guys who get addicted to watching porn instead of having IRL sex with their wife/girlfriend/partner lol.
(kidding not kidding lol, but lets not drail the thread here hahahaha)
Some of us cannot afford 15K+ centerfire a year. I find my Rimfire practice crosses over to my centerfire results. My centerfire is a 300PRC. Not a 20 lbs 6GT.Lately, it feels like guys push rimfire like crack in the '80's lol.
I don't want to shoot rimfire. There I said it lol.
I belong to a club that goes out to 1250 yards that takes me an hour plus and an hour plus back to get to, so I might as well shoot cartridges that recoil like real guns instead of not at all (like a 20+LB NRL22 .22LR doesn't), at targets way the fuck out there lol.
I feel like getting into rimfire would be a poor quality of life decision for me.
To me, it's almost like... for guys who get addicted to watching porn instead of having IRL sex with their wife/girlfriend/partner lol.
(kidding not kidding lol, but lets not drail the thread here hahahaha)
Still married….
Don't get me wrong, I see the value (and fun) in shooting rimfire, even if it's just for the practice of building and breaking positions on the clock... so I doubt I'll stay away forever.
But I guess the current popularity of it (rimfire) is sort of a turn-off for me at this point. Seems kind of soulless, anti-punk rock lol.
IDK, I still shoot a fair amount of USPSA when I can, so I guess that's my low-key shooting outlet in lieu of rimfire. Even as I get older and slower (which matters more than the shooting part in that game), I'd still rather do that.
But I guess the current popularity of it (rimfire) is sort of a turn-off for me at this point. Seems kind of soulless, anti-punk rock lol.
IDK, I still shoot a fair amount of USPSA when I can, so I guess that's my low-key shooting outlet in lieu of rimfire. Even as I get older and slower (which matters more than the shooting part in that game), I'd still rather do that.
If she wasn’t solid or she gets silly; decisions are on the table. I told her if we break up I’ll have to live in basement because that’s the only way to make the huge boat payment I will have.
Good point about weather impacts on phones. I've had cell phones both act wrong and fully shut down in temp extremes, maybe not even extreme.
Thanks all for the variety of input here, I'm learning and taking it all in!
Calypso Mini Ultrasonic Wind and Direction Meters are pretty slick - No moving parts. Think there is one for sale in PX
Or if you want to splurge check out the Wind Zero system
All that and you still only know what the wind is where you are. All the rest of the information has to be gained the hard way
I learned to shoot longish range at the Central KS Gun Club in Hutchinson. Best wind education is to learn to shoot in the plains states.
Would be neat if you could daisy chain a bunch of those wind meters together, and have it calculate an overall wind vector for your ballistics.
Don't get me wrong, I see the value (and fun) in shooting rimfire, even if it's just for the practice of building and breaking positions on the clock... so I doubt I'll stay away forever.
But I guess the current popularity of it (rimfire) is sort of a turn-off for me at this point. Seems kind of soulless, anti-punk rock lol.
IDK, I still shoot a fair amount of USPSA when I can, so I guess that's my low-key shooting outlet in lieu of rimfire. Even as I get older and slower (which matters more than the shooting part in that game), I'd still rather do that.
Rimfire and airguns can be good tools for wind and short range ELR practice.
Though I think it's hard to beat something like a .308 for a teacher. Shooting at 1,000+ yards with a .308 in windy conditions will require you to have good wind calls if you want hits. And the recoil of a .30 cal will really test your fundamentals, unlike an airgun or rimfire.
Pistol is great for trigger control, that practice will directly translate over to rifles.
That'd be an awesome teaching tool
Whatever happened to those handheld laser (or was it doppler) sensors that could tell you what wind downrange was from your position?
Shot lots of NRA highpower matches there, back when it was an iron sights game. You learn a shit ton at the 600 yard line as every shot is marked individually and you get to see the result of your wind call based on mirage and other indicators for every single shot.
Now that I think about it, probably the best wind reading school for any precision shooter is to attend NRA mid and long range prone matches at any range that has challenging winds. Enter in F class if you use a bipod. F-TR for 223 or 308 shooter, F-Open for every other caliber.
That is what the new Wind Zero system does with 3 of the larger Calypso sensors and up to a 1 mile range.
Haven't used one in years though I am entertained watching other people use theirs. For me it started out as a field tool but I quickly found out it was, for this use case, actually better as a learning aid a pretty crappy field-useful tool. Measured wind velocity at the firing position anywhere but on broad flat plains that are devoid of much in the way of terrain features like hills and trees and building is entirely meaningless, in terms of what the actual value to correct for should be, everywhere that I shoot. I decided to learn how the air behaves through academic study of the matter to learn some of the basic scientific principles involved followed by actively gathering and studying empirical data over a number of years in the geographic locations in which I shoot, paying specific extra attention to the interaction of land forms on air speed and direction. I'm no savant at estimating wind calls but the developed knowledge serves me well enough everywhere I go that I don't bother bringing a gadget more sophisticated than a wet fingertip. Obviously that's super not helpful as a strategy for those not friendly to the processes of academic study, systematic gathering of data and analysis of the gathered data. The challenge in my method comes from two specific problems that are not resolvable: One, which comes up during the analysis work, is the large number of counterintuitive behaviors that air displays epecially in how it differs between X situation and Y situation can make the data appear chaotic which is unhelpful to the cause of analysis bringing about any conclusion. The second major difficulty inducing factor is the sheer time and attention to detail that it takes to do that kind of work. You have to be interested in learning it which means an aversion to easy button type solutions.
The shooting model has density altitude. The original shooting model also offered a built in compass sensor, but current models do not.
Your link didn't work for me... but if you're asking about the difference between the blue Weatherflow and FDE/tan weather flow... the FDE/tan one is their one specifically for precision shooting while the blue one is their "normal" one. The only difference is that the FDE/tan one has its own internal compass and the blue one does not have an internal compass.
The internal compass in the FDE/tan one is worth the extra 10 bucks if you ever think you might want to throw it up on a wind-vane thingy, otherwise, the blue one is just fine (you just end up using the phone's internal compass).
FWIW, for the Strelok Pro/WeatherFLOW peeps...
I find setting the target azimuth with the Weatherflow in Strelok Pro confusing and it never seems to work right. Maybe it's better when the thing is mounted on a vane? IDK. If someone has a good way of explaining how it's supposed to work... I'm all ears?
I just use the "set wind direction manually" setting and point my iPhone toward the target, and set wind direction in relation to that, just using the WeatherFLOW as a wind speed meter by pointing it into the wind (and of course, it provides real-time on-site weather too). Works great, I regularly get first-round hits out to 1250 yards using what it spits out doing it this way.
I find setting the target azimuth with the Weatherflow in Strelok Pro confusing and it never seems to work right. Maybe it's better when the thing is mounted on a vane? IDK. If someone has a good way of explaining how it's supposed to work... I'm all ears?
I just use the "set wind direction manually" setting and point my iPhone toward the target, and set wind direction in relation to that, just using the WeatherFLOW as a wind speed meter by pointing it into the wind (and of course, it provides real-time on-site weather too). Works great, I regularly get first-round hits out to 1250 yards using what it spits out doing it this way.
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