Where Do We Go From Here?

RAVAGE88

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  • Feb 13, 2017
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    Well, what an interesting five years we've seen in Rimfire World. From the, "oh, that'll never work," to what is now the multitude of players in the "true-to-scale" market, I'm well into a really cool place made possible by an ability to fuel thoughts of "what's next?"

    During the time I've spent away from the forums, I believe clarity has hit me square in the face. As such, I've been able to answer the above, very simple question with a very simple answer; "more of the same....only better." As I've looked back at what already could have been introduced as "the next generation of bolt action rimfire," I've recognized that everything happens for a reason. Also, a number of things have been left undone and faster twist barrels are at the top of my list. I'll pause for a moment to thank the many that have stayed in touch with me via PM to continue long running conversations on the fast twist subject. I'm also thankful to have various design constraints out-of-the-way and am really excited for an opportunity to test new boundaries.

    A lot of you will ask, "what makes the next line better?" Well, I won't be talking about that just yet, but bear in mind that what the community is enjoying now started with my ears being wide open and mouth shut....and I've been listening all along. So, thank you all for being an incredible collection of serious shooters that, by your very willingness to participate, continues to fuel what happens around you.

    Lastly, it brings me great joy to say, I'm back, and more serious and focused than ever to do something really cool....again. I'm sitting here in front of SolidWorks with various parts on the desk and loving what I'm seeing unfold in front of me....it's actually difficult to not say more than I am. But, you might remember the drip feeding that led up to a thread I started in August of 2017 that's now up to nearly 200 pages, 944,000 views and 10,000 replies. So, here we go....again.

    MB
     
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    Smoke88c

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    Can’t wait to see what the future holds. Good luck mike on your new adventure. Don’t keep us waiting too long. 😂
     
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    RAVAGE88

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    Can’t wait to see what the future holds. Good luck mike on your new adventure. Don’t keep us waiting too long. 😂
    Thanks Smoke, and I wont. The project is close enough that I can post this thread and feel good about having a way to keep you guys informed. Maybe I'll post a few pics soon.

    MB
     

    Defender32

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    I look forward to seeing what the future hold & unfolds!!!

    Happy Flying.
     
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    jbell

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    Welcome back Mike. I am looking forward to what you have coming down the pipe.
     
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    RAVAGE88

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  • Feb 13, 2017
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    I would love to see a rear lock, 3 lug, short bolt for Olympic style shooting.

    Our athletes going to the Olympics with Bleikers, Walthers and Anschutz has always bugged me.
    Yep, this is something that I had to place on the back burner for a while. Let's link up on the phone early next week....

    MB
     

    Trung Si Ma

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    It's amazing what a nice flair onto a grass field with big tires does to get the brain realigned. Sitting on the tire, listening to "things", while drinking a good cup.

    Looking forward to what you bring out next.
     

    RAVAGE88

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  • Feb 13, 2017
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    It's amazing what a nice flair onto a grass field with big tires does to get the brain realigned. Sitting on the tire, listening to "things", while drinking a good cup.

    Looking forward to what you bring out next.
    Without a single doubt, Dude.

    Sunrise.jpg


    MB
     

    steve123

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    Id still like to see you make a mini centerfire action.

    I use a CZ 527 action for my 5mmFBI(similar to 20 Vartarg) which is a bit long for the 221 Fireball case and I can only get 3 rounds to feed reliably.

    Would love 12 rounds out of a AI mag instead and a Vudoo quality build!

    20 cal is the sweet spot!
    This class of cartridge is a varmint hunters best friend because it gets super long barrel life, it takes a ton of shots before the barrel gets hot, has very low recoil, and doesn't hardly disturb the sight picture, its cheap to shoot as well at 18.8 grains of H4198.
    If that wasn't enough it has 22-250 ballistics with the 32 grainers/3750 fps out of a 21" barrel. It seems nearly as precise as a 6mmPPC and is quite easy to hit 2 moa steel at 500 yards in normal winds.

    A slightly shorter version of this cartridge would do about that same velocity and be easier to make reduced loads with, for low ES, superior precision compared to a 22rf, and of course much less wind drift.

    Create your own line of ammo and you'll have something different nobody else has.
     

    RAVAGE88

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  • Feb 13, 2017
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    Id still like to see you make a mini centerfire action.

    I use a CZ 527 action for my 5mmFBI(similar to 20 Vartarg) which is a bit long for the 221 Fireball case and I can only get 3 rounds to feed reliably.

    Would love 12 rounds out of a AI mag instead and a Vudoo quality build!

    20 cal is the sweet spot!
    This class of cartridge is a varmint hunters best friend because it gets super long barrel life, it takes a ton of shots before the barrel gets hot, has very low recoil, and doesn't hardly disturb the sight picture, its cheap to shoot as well at 18.8 grains of H4198.
    If that wasn't enough it has 22-250 ballistics with the 32 grainers/3750 fps out of a 21" barrel. It seems nearly as precise as a 6mmPPC and is quite easy to hit 2 moa steel at 500 yards in normal winds.

    A slightly shorter version of this cartridge would do about that same velocity and be easier to make reduced loads with, for low ES, superior precision compared to a 22rf, and of course much less wind drift.

    Create your own line of ammo and you'll have something different nobody else has.
    Yo Dude! I remember us talking about this. I actually have the bolt assembly design with three position safety and it won't take much to get the receiver modeled. There will need to be a big focus on stocks, but won't be any different than other ground up developments. I don't care much for the Model 7 footprint, so I've gone a different route.

    MB
     

    DownhillFromHere

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    Mike, I'm glad to hear the enthusiasm in your prose, if not your actual voice. I'm waiting as patiently as I can for "commoditization" of the fast-twist barrel!

    I'm still happy with my gen-1 V22 and, in matches where I can park my near-septuagenarian butt behind a bench, I hold my own against newer Vudoos, RimXs, Anschutz, etc. I shot my first "modified" mini-Palma match (they had a division which allowed shooting from bench/bag/bipod) a few months ago... I was worried about being simply competent... I ended up cleaning the thing (450/32x of possible 450/45x). MD said no one had ever cleaned it before... it was a little match with just 24 shooters, but some of them were regular competitors... and, had the MD not had his little gauge thingie to check hits close to a line, I would have scored myself closer to 442. But I wasn't gonna argue with the MD...

    I'm attending a regional PRS rimfire finale at Frontline tomorrow, along with the infamous Rob&Tony dynamic duo. Wish you were here; wonder if there would be shenanigans...
     

    deltawiskey

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    I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas morning to come!
    Glad to see your back Mike... I'll be watching this thread closely
    DW
     
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    RAVAGE88

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  • Feb 13, 2017
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    Mike, I'm glad to hear the enthusiasm in your prose, if not your actual voice. I'm waiting as patiently as I can for "commoditization" of the fast-twist barrel!

    I'm still happy with my gen-1 V22 and, in matches where I can park my near-septuagenarian butt behind a bench, I hold my own against newer Vudoos, RimXs, Anschutz, etc. I shot my first "modified" mini-Palma match (they had a division which allowed shooting from bench/bag/bipod) a few months ago... I was worried about being simply competent... I ended up cleaning the thing (450/32x of possible 450/45x). MD said no one had ever cleaned it before... it was a little match with just 24 shooters, but some of them were regular competitors... and, had the MD not had his little gauge thingie to check hits close to a line, I would have scored myself closer to 442. But I wasn't gonna argue with the MD...

    I'm attending a regional PRS rimfire finale at Frontline tomorrow, along with the infamous Rob&Tony dynamic duo. Wish you were here; wonder if there would be shenanigans...
    Yo Dude, thank you and you're correct to detect a renewed energy. I remember the same energy and excitement around the Gen 1 you mention and what that period of time represented. I remember how it came to market and it was a lot like what you described as your experience at the recent match....Congratulations, by the way.

    Now, it's time to take it further....a little differently than what I believe the plan was, but that's ok. What's coming together now is heavily inspired by that Gen 1 and it's difficult for me to keep a lid on it.

    And, if I were at Frontline with you guys, I can guarantee shenanigans of the highest order....Rob and Tony are just that kind of influence.

    Good luck at the match and let's stay in touch....

    MB
     
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    Cowpokey

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    What's the possibility of increasing twist through the bore? Say 1:16 at the leade to 1:12 (or faster) at the muzzle?
     
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    Quickoz

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    Welcome back MB. We know whatever you have cooking, it will be awesome.

    Glad you enjoyed the flying. I havent flown as much as I would have liked the last 10 years but with a new plane arriving in a few weeks for myself and Dad, its gonna be good. Best thing, I can throw gear in the plane and bugger off to a match. 😂😂😂😂 now thats the dream combo.
     
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    RAVAGE88

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    What's the possibility of increasing twist through the bore? Say 1:16 at the leade to 1:12 (or faster) at the muzzle?
    Hey Dude, gain twist is certainly doable, but frankly, I've been a slow adopter of the concept. Having said this and due to a high level of interest in the community, I'm combining fast twist efforts with testing of gain twist. There's some new barrel making capabilities coming online this month that will allow me to do anything that can be dreamed up for bore convention, twist, etc.

    MB
     

    RAVAGE88

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  • Feb 13, 2017
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    Welcome back MB. We know whatever you have cooking, it will be awesome.

    Glad you enjoyed the flying. I havent flown as much as I would have liked the last 10 years but with a new plane arriving in a few weeks for myself and Dad, its gonna be good. Best thing, I can throw gear in the plane and bugger off to a match. 😂😂😂😂 now thats the dream combo.
    Yo Dude, thank you. I started in helo's 23 years ago with a little bit of airplane along the way. Over the last, just over a year, A LOT of flight hours in a multitude of airplanes (piston single and multi-engine, turbine single) and will continue to focus heavily on flying. I'm planning a flight down to the Nashville area to shoot fast twist with a Dude from this site and I'm sure will be coming up with more reasons to fly....like, maybe a match or two.

    MB
     
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    Quickoz

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    Sounds awesome. My old mans a ex chopper jock in the RAAF. He flys Gyrocopters now but we always have a fixed wing in the hanger too. My dream has always been to fly to a comp and shoot. Should be doable with the new Zenith 750 STOL.
     
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    Drew M

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    Very keen to see & read about where you go with this,

    Totally understand the need to take some time out to recharge & clear your head.
     

    RAVAGE88

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  • Feb 13, 2017
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    Sounds awesome. My old mans a ex chopper jock in the RAAF. He flys Gyrocopters now but we always have a fixed wing in the hanger too. My dream has always been to fly to a comp and shoot. Should be doable with the new Zenith 750 STOL.
    I started in R22s and R44s and worked my way into the Bell 412EP and MD530....never been in a gyrocopter. I'm commercially rated in airplanes to include multiengine and headed down to FL soon for initial in TBMs. I've entertained getting signed off in tailwheels, but haven't yet been motivated enough to go do it; but I have an affinity for STOL aircraft.

    MB
     
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    Quickoz

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    I started in R22s and R44s and worked my way into the Bell 412EP and MD530....never been in a gyrocopter. I'm commercially rated in airplanes to include multiengine and headed down to FL soon for initial in TBMs. I've entertained getting signed off in tailwheels, but haven't yet been motivated enough to go do it; but I have an affinity for STOL aircraft.

    MB
    Mate, tailwheel is the only way to go. I feel wierd if my feet arnt non stop on the rudder pedals. The 750 is a nosewheel machine but I want to do a tailwheel conversion on it.

    Anyway, enjoy it mate. Its hard to choose between shooting and flying...
     
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    RAVAGE88

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    Checking in and glad to hear more of the it’s coming 🤦‍♂️🤣

    If you build it…. they will come!
    Thanks Dude, very much appreciated. The new actions have a number of features not found in what has been typical of the last five years. Also, there are areas of execution for features that were tried, but limited by various things that led me to believe the timing was all wrong. Pretty exciting stuff....

    MB
     
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    It's amazing what a nice flair onto a grass field with big tires does to get the brain realigned. Sitting on the tire, listening to "things", while drinking a good cup.

    Looking forward to what you bring out next.

    Yup, spent some time yesterday working on my tailwheel endorsement. Won't be much longer now that I can keep it straight down the runway. :)
     
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    RAVAGE88

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    Yup, spent some time yesterday working on my tailwheel endorsement. Won't be much longer now that I can keep it straight down the runway. :)
    Dude, this is motivating and may have to do mine sooner than later.

    MB
     

    Trung Si Ma

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    So you can only fly aircraft with the training wheel on the front? First solo - 1946 Cessna 140 out of Merrill Field in downtown Anchorage. 170’s, 180’s, 185’s and the occasional Bird Dog. Thinking about something from CubCrafters...
     

    Quickoz

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    So you can only fly aircraft with the training wheel on the front? First solo - 1946 Cessna 140 out of Merrill Field in downtown Anchorage. 170’s, 180’s, 185’s and the occasional Bird Dog. Thinking about something from CubCrafters...
    Oooooo shots fired. But as fellow taildragger, I get it 😂😂😂

    Cubcrafters, they are nice. We used to have a Skyfox Impala (Kitfox Series 4) and WB503 Drifter. The drifter is the most fun you can have with your pants on. Something about chasing cattle at 20ft above the paddock.... I love it.
     
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    NewsShooter

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    Dude, this is motivating and may have to do mine sooner than later.

    MB

    Got my PPL at 60 after I picked up a photo job doing aerials, it lasted 18 months and I got a lesson ever time I flew for photos. I'm having fun, high speed taxis and aborted takeoffs to land at the other end. Last lesson was 14 landings in an hour after some high speed taxis. Next will be spin training and some aerobatics in the Citabria. It will certainly make you a better pilot, nose draggers are a piece of cake. Don't have worry much about adverse yaw in an archer or 172 either. :D.
     
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    RAVAGE88

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  • Feb 13, 2017
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    Look up.
    So you can only fly aircraft with the training wheel on the front? First solo - 1946 Cessna 140 out of Merrill Field in downtown Anchorage. 170’s, 180’s, 185’s and the occasional Bird Dog. Thinking about something from CubCrafters...
    I was originally landing without wheels at all; in a true STOL aircraft. :LOL: 👊

    MB
     

    Frankr

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    Glad you’re back Mike!

    Besides a mini action 3 lug design.

    How about some love for pistols?

    VQ, browning, and S&W need some vudoo competition
     

    RAVAGE88

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    Glad you’re back Mike!

    Besides a mini action 3 lug design.

    How about some love for pistols?

    VQ, browning, and S&W need some vudoo competition
    Thanks Dude!

    I’ve done a number pistols and still doing them for other well knowns in the industry. One of which I traveled to Turkey to do and it’s been on the scene in the USA for about six years now and was shot in sanctioned competitions by one of the best.

    However, I sold my shares and no longer an owner of Vudoo or associated with their products, but I’ll always be a resource for anything rimfire. Although I’ve designed/developed rifles, pistols, shotguns, parts and accessories, etc., for many in the industry for years, and still do, any new rimfire actions, rifles, etc., will be my own….hence my excitement.

    MB
     

    Frankr

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    Thanks Dude!

    I’ve done a number pistols and still doing them for other well knowns in the industry. One of which I traveled to Turkey to do and it’s been on the scene in the USA for about six years now and was shot in sanctioned competitions by one of the best.

    However, I sold my shares and no longer an owner of Vudoo or associated with their products, but I’ll always be a resource for anything rimfire. Although I’ve designed/developed rifles, pistols, shotguns, parts and accessories, etc., for many in the industry for years, and still do, any new rimfire actions, rifles, etc., will be my own….hence my excitement.

    MB
    I’m glad you’re still going to be working on new products!
    I hope you had enough time for yourself.

    I would love to hear which pistol you had a hand in designing. Always cool to see new gun designs.

    Seeing as you’re your own new company now.

    How about either a 3 lug or fortner action that set up similar to the Sig Cross / QFix that has easy change barrels, carbon fiber handguard, folding stock and either uses CZ mags (if it’s a mini/rimfire action) or vudoo mags (full size). With a light weight barrel to boot!

    Something that would work well for hunting and fit a wide variety of shooters. Have the action be part of the frame.
    Ruger got it kind of close with the RPRr but failed and no one else has got it quite right imho.

    22lr pistol would have at least 20 rounds and hopefully be as easy to manipulate like the GSG 1911 or these new guns FN502, Sig 322 (I think that’s the model), and Tarus xt22.

    Something that mimics full size centerfire guns that kids and adults can practice with that shoots very well and can be used for hunting, competitions and plinking…. Z

    I mean if I was dreaming of something
     
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    Trung Si Ma

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    As long as we’re dreaming …

    .22LR 700 pattern for triggers
    18” threaded carbon fiber barrel
    Chassis with integrated ARCA rail that protects the front of the magazine
    Folding stock that covers / protects the bolt
    Enough pic rail space for both a decent mid size scope and AR style offset sights
    15 round aluminum mags
    Backpack carrying case with foam inserts

    Market is general purpose rimfire / survival rifle / trainer / small game hunting

    Available in left handed of course.

    Edit: I’ll take two left handed ones and a right handed one for my Goddaughter.
     
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