Where does annealing fit in?

[fw707]

I'm thinking:

Anneal first,
then size,
then tumble,
them clean primer pockets,
then trim,
then prime,
and then load.

That way the annealed brass gets the full benefit from the sizing, and the trimming is done after the sizing lengthens the case.

Is there a better way?

Thanks!

 

[Graham]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a better way?</div></div>Yup. Buy good brass, like Lapua. Then, when it comes time to anneal, throw them away and buy some more.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

Trimming before sizing is kinda futile.
Other than the expense, annealing is a somewhat enjoyable part of reloading, on my Giraud machine. Load it and go to town.

I have not realized, or experienced the benefits of it yet, but I read on the internet it helps, and the net doesn't lie!

You sequence is right though, whether it is for you is another thing.

 

[DHDeal]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

Maybe not a "better way", but I ultrasonic clean my brass first (decap first), then I anneal. I want my necks clean before I anneal. Here is my routine.

Decap
Ultrasonic clean
Anneal
Resize
Trim if needed
Brush inside necks (nylon brush chucked in my drill press)
Tumble until I am happy
Load

Maybe too much effort, but I run my loads over an Ohler pretty often and the numbers don't lie. Could I get such accuracy and consistency without the trouble? Probably, but my cases last a long time and I usually lean on my loads and I don't like to buy brass often.

FWIW, I use a Benchsource annealer, and I don't mind cranking it up!

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DHD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe not a "better way", but I ultrasonic clean my brass first (decap first), then I anneal. I want my necks clean before I anneal. Here is my routine.

Decap
Ultrasonic clean
Anneal
Resize
Trim if needed
Brush inside necks (nylon brush chucked in my drill press)
Tumble until I am happy
Load

Maybe too much effort, but I run my loads over an Ohler pretty often and the numbers don't lie. Could I get such accuracy and consistency without the trouble? Probably, but my cases last a long time and I usually lean on my loads and I don't like to buy brass often.

FWIW, I use a Benchsource annealer, and I don't mind cranking it up! </div></div>

This guy is right, you want to clean or tumble first, no need to anneal the carbon buildup on the neck.

 

[fw707]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

This guy is right, you want to clean or tumble first, no need to anneal the carbon buildup on the neck. </div></div>

Thanks Milo!
I was planning on running a brush through the necks to remove the carbon before annealling.
I've been tumbling after sizing to remove the lube.

 

[fw707]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a better way?</div></div>Yup. Buy good brass, like Lapua. Then, when it comes time to anneal, throw them away and buy some more. </div></div>

Thanks Graham!
I'm a little confused though. Doesn't annealing extend the life of Lapua brass?

 

[Genius.]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a better way?</div></div>Yup. Buy good brass, like Lapua. Then, when it comes time to anneal, throw them away and buy some more. </div></div>

Thanks Graham!
I'm a little confused though. Doesn't annealing extend the life of Lapua brass? </div></div>

I'm curious too. I'm trying to decide if I want to bite the bullet and buy Lapua brass, if they never have to be annealed, that'll push me over the edge.

 

[fw707]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DHD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Maybe too much effort, but I run my loads over an Ohler pretty often and the numbers don't lie. Could I get such accuracy and consistency without the trouble? Probably, but my cases last a long time and I usually lean on my loads and I don't like to buy brass often.

</div></div>

Thanks DHD!
Do you think your good numbers from the chrono might be due to better neck tension on the annealled brass?

 

[DHDeal]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

I do. I load for 223, 243, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor, 308, 30-06, and 300 SAUM. These are the white powder rifles I have. Black powder cartridge rifles I have, love, and shoot too, but that is another story.

In all of these I go to the trouble of prepping my cases the way I described. Are my loads consistent? Yes. Do I feel I waste my time? No. But, my time is mine and I enjoy having to not worry about my cases ever being a possible issue.

Not to argue about Lapua cases, but they get the same treatment whether they like it or not. I use mostly Lapua in my rifles if it is available.

I have not lost a case of any manufacture to a split neck since I got the Benchsource. It is a helluva expenditure, but I went in on halves and it stays at my house.

A small piece of advise that costs you nothing. Clean your cases first as that carbon can get baked in even harder. Then brush the ID with a nylon brush. I tried using 0000 steel wool, but the bullets seated very hard and inconsistent as a Democrat. The nylon brush does something that makes the bullets seat as if they are molyed.

As always, my $.02 and all that.

 

[DHDeal]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

This guy is right, you want to clean or tumble first, no need to anneal the carbon buildup on the neck. </div></div>

Thanks Milo!
I was planning on running a brush through the necks to remove the carbon before annealling.
I've been tumbling after sizing to remove the lube. </div></div>

Take this for what it's worth. The "clean first" is covered, I believe, in the Benchsourse manual. It was also explained to me by my shooting partner who is a welder with 40 years behind a helmet. The carbon can insulate the brass you are trying to heat up. As the carbon is probably not consistent around the inside and outside the neck, neither will be the anneal. Is this a diehard fact? Don't know for sure, but it makes sense. Also, if you have an annealer, you damn sure have multiple ways to clean that brass as the annealer comes last.

Just one man's opinion..... Ain't reloading fun!

 

[jkonzal]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

I also think DHD has it right. I only use Lapua brass, but I anneal it after each 2nd firing. Some might think it's overkill, but it lasts a long time!!!

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

I'm a decap and clean first fan. It's easier to gauge temps for annealing with clean brass.

FWIW, I anneal my Lapua brass too. Not for the first 5 loadings but they get the treatment as well. I don't toss brass until the primer pockets won't hold primers any more of the necks split.

Why get rid of something that still gets along with my rifle

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

If I am doing brass that has been shot for a while, 4 to 5 times and work harden I will

Quick clean brass neck area
<span style="font-weight: bold">Anneal</span>
Size and de-prime
Trim to length
Chamfer neck inner and outer edge
Complete clean brass
Weight sort cases
Prime
Load
Shoot


Brass that I anneal every load

Quick clean brass neck area
Size and de-prime
Trim to length
Chamfer neck inner and outer edge
Complete clean
<span style="font-weight: bold">Anneal</span>
Weight sort brass
Prime
Load
Shoot


The change in the process is only due to the brass that has been used or shot for 4 to 5 times without annealing may start to show failure, necks cracking do to work hardening and ends up in the trash where as some can be saved if annealed first and soften up some then going through the sizer die after being annealed.

Annealing is fast and easy, a friend and I use the Giraud annealer and it keeps us busy rotating batches of annealed brass, this thing does a great job and is made to handle a lot of brass in a short period of time.


Benefits of annealing

Longer brass life
A more consistent neck tension from one case to the next when seating bullets – very noticeable when loading
Thus having a consistent neck tension enables tighter velocity spreads and more consistent groups at extended ranges



oneshot.onehit

 

[fw707]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

Guys,
I appreciate all of the replies!

Thanks to everybody for all of the great information.

 

[30SMK]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biggenius29</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a better way?</div></div>Yup. Buy good brass, like Lapua. Then, when it comes time to anneal, throw them away and buy some more. </div></div>

Thanks Graham!
I'm a little confused though. Doesn't annealing extend the life of Lapua brass? </div></div>

I'm curious too. I'm trying to decide if I want to bite the bullet and buy Lapua brass, if they never have to be annealed, that'll push me over the edge. </div></div>

They will still need to be annealed after a few firings but his point is that they come annealed from the factory. This way you do dot have to initially anneal them. I don't do it as often as I should but then again I get plenty of reloads off a piece of brass with or without doing it.

 

[Unknown]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

I always clean my cases first. If nothing else, it saves wear on the sizing die.

I would only vary a small bit from your progression. (match prep previously done)

Tumble
size
degrease cases
clean primer pockets
trim
de-burr inside and outside
prime
either load, or put aside until ready to load.

 

[fw707]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

More good information, and I really appreciate it!

I'm still waiting to hear back from Graham.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a better way?</div></div>Yup. Buy good brass, like Lapua. Then, when it comes time to anneal, throw them away and buy some more. </div></div>

I've got some Lapua brass that's been fired a few times, and I'm wondering if I need to go ahead and trash it and buy some more?

The tracking number says my Giraud annealer should be here Wednesday. Maybe I should just send it back and spend the $$ on some new Lapua brass?

 

[hdbiker1]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">More good information, and I really appreciate it!

I'm still waiting to hear back from Graham.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a better way?</div></div>Yup. Buy good brass, like Lapua. Then, when it comes time to anneal, throw them away and buy some more. </div></div>

I've got some Lapua brass that's been fired a few times, and I'm wondering if I need to go ahead and trash it and buy some more?

The tracking number says my Giraud annealer should be here Wednesday. Maybe I should just send it back and spend the $$ on some new Lapua brass?

</div></div>

You have one more box then I do, but mine are over two different calibers.
How long did you have to wait to get your Giraud? I ordered mine Friday and the lady said about 4 weeks.

 

[vdub]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

Great now I need to buy the Giraud annealer. I should not have looked in this thread.

 

[fw707]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hdbiker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How long did you have to wait to get your Giraud? I ordered mine Friday and the lady said about 4 weeks. </div></div>

Exactly 6 weeks.
The Giraud trimmer took exactly 4 weeks.

 

[jcann]

Re: Where does annealing fit in?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 30SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biggenius29</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Is there a better way?</div></div>Yup. Buy good brass, like Lapua. Then, when it comes time to anneal, throw them away and buy some more. </div></div>

Thanks Graham!
I'm a little confused though. Doesn't annealing extend the life of Lapua brass? </div></div>

They will still need to be annealed after a few firings but his point is that they come annealed from the factory. This way you do dot have to initially anneal them. I don't do it as often as I should but then again I get plenty of reloads off a piece of brass with or without doing it. </div></div>

All bottle neck cases come annealed from the factory due to case hardening during the production process. Most manufactures polish the blue tint off the cases, others like Lapua does not. All brass will case harden through the firing/reloading process. The amount of case hardening is dependent upon number of firings and how much the brass is being worked. If your turning necks for consistent neck tension on a “no turn” chamber chances are you will overwork your necks causing one to anneal more often. With Lapua brass being more consistent, and thicker neck walls they “typically” can undergo more firings/resizing before needing to be annealed.

Just my 0.02