Where Does the Light Go?

Papajohn

High Priest of the Powder Hoarders
Minuteman
  • Sep 4, 2021
    17
    29
    Coastal Misery
    Here's a question for those with the S&W MP-15's and similar guns......what's the best place to put your light? I've had an overly-large side-mounted light with a pressure pad mounted behind/under it, the light was on the front right of the handguard but it stuck out so far it seemed to snag on everything during drills and made the gun feel clubby and unwieldy. So I'm thinking about other options but I'm running out of them. Here's the rifle as it was an hour ago.



    I have a cheapo plastic rail I can attach to the sides or bottom of the foregrip, but if I mount the light on the side I have the same problem, and if I mount it underneath my hand has damned little to hang onto, and I like to have my support hand as far forward as possible. There is a small picatinny rail about an inch long on top of the gas block, but the gun is scoped and the light would block a significant portion of the field of view.

    I've thought about the O-Light PL Mini as an option, I have a couple of those, and it's the smallest thing I can find that might actually work. But with the height of both the base and the light itself, it still sticks up too far to use on top, and I am running out of options because I don't really know what else is out there to make this gun work with a light. The forend is a Magpul shorty, is there a better forend that would give me more options?

    I know AR-15's are just Lego sets, and maybe I don't have the right pieces on hand. But I'm also tired of buying parts that look decent but don't work out in the long run, and get stuffed in a box in the basement, never to see the light of day again.

    Any suggestions that will work with an "Optic Ready" MP-15? I'm cheap, but will happily buy what's needed here, the damn gun needs a light!
     

    n2ishun

    LightningTuTu
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  • Jan 2, 2022
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    With the height of those scope rings (scope rings on an AR?????) it looks like you could snuggle it right under the scope.
    But.
    First.
    Get the right sized light.
    You know.
    Like 1/4 of the size of the one on there ?
    Then.
    Get.
    A.
    Real
    AR.
    Style.
    Scope.
    Mount.
    Not.
    Rings.
    3.
    foot.
    tall.
     

    acudaowner

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    ddss489-84c62ab7-d1db-4641-aeb3-0ca4c4e4d76f.png
     

    n2ishun

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  • Jan 2, 2022
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    In all seriousness.
    I have never seen scope rings half that height before.
    That has to be some kind of scope elevation record never attained by mere man.
    Nay, we are not worthy.
    Wild guess.... 2"+ height, possibly as much as 2.5 inches high?
    I did not know they went there, learn something new every day I guess :/
     

    Papajohn

    High Priest of the Powder Hoarders
    Minuteman
  • Sep 4, 2021
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    Coastal Misery
    Good God Almighty. Y'all act like you've never seen scope rings before. I grew up in the 60's and 70's, when there was no such thing as a cantilever mount. Those are Millett Steel rings, listed as one inch, they've been on the gun since '09 (that's 2009, in case you weren't sure) and the damn scope hasn't moved a whisker since I mounted it, despite the gun being dropped, knocked over, tossed into vehicles, buried under mounds of gear, and shot a ton. If I mount the gun with my eyes closed, when I open them I'm looking dead straight through the center of the scope. So no, no need to "fix" anything there.

    The video would have been helpful if those guys actually talked more about guns and spent less time trying to be cute and funny, neither of which worked. The whole thing was stupid as shit, and full of vague opinions that didn't help. I know how to tighten screws down, and not everyone is built the same.

    I have run A2 stocks on my AR's since the 80's, they fit me fine, don't fucking rattle or wobble, don't need adjustment, and the price is right. I have yet to see a collapsible stock that didn't rattle, wobble, pinch my face or snag my facial hair. If there's a decent one out there it probably costs more than the gun, and I really don't see any reason to ditch the A2, it just flat works. If I rode around in a Bradley or HumVee all day, things might be different, but Unca Sammy and I parted ways in the 70's.

    Oh, and my light is HUGE? Go to the O-Light website and see what they're hawking. Most of their lights are as big as what I was using.

    How about some suggestions for a better forend? That's where the light has to go, but no one has even mentioned a forend yet.

    And close my dust cover? Why...does it offend you, make you blush maybe? I'm not in the Sandbox, we don't have dust storms here.

    I guess posting here was a mistake, I thought you guys were serious about this kind of shit. My bad. Fuckin' A.
     

    JimmyJr

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    Sep 20, 2021
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    Good God Almighty. Y'all act like you've never seen scope rings before. I grew up in the 60's and 70's, when there was no such thing as a cantilever mount. Those are Millett Steel rings, listed as one inch, they've been on the gun since '09 (that's 2009, in case you weren't sure) and the damn scope hasn't moved a whisker since I mounted it, despite the gun being dropped, knocked over, tossed into vehicles, buried under mounds of gear, and shot a ton. If I mount the gun with my eyes closed, when I open them I'm looking dead straight through the center of the scope. So no, no need to "fix" anything there.

    The video would have been helpful if those guys actually talked more about guns and spent less time trying to be cute and funny, neither of which worked. The whole thing was stupid as shit, and full of vague opinions that didn't help. I know how to tighten screws down, and not everyone is built the same.

    I have run A2 stocks on my AR's since the 80's, they fit me fine, don't fucking rattle or wobble, don't need adjustment, and the price is right. I have yet to see a collapsible stock that didn't rattle, wobble, pinch my face or snag my facial hair. If there's a decent one out there it probably costs more than the gun, and I really don't see any reason to ditch the A2, it just flat works. If I rode around in a Bradley or HumVee all day, things might be different, but Unca Sammy and I parted ways in the 70's.

    Oh, and my light is HUGE? Go to the O-Light website and see what they're hawking. Most of their lights are as big as what I was using.

    How about some suggestions for a better forend? That's where the light has to go, but no one has even mentioned a forend yet.

    And close my dust cover? Why...does it offend you, make you blush maybe? I'm not in the Sandbox, we don't have dust storms here.

    I guess posting here was a mistake, I thought you guys were serious about this kind of shit. My bad. Fuckin' A.
    Hey calm down, this is a “long range” forum and you for sure will get solid info regarding that.
    AR 15 stuff here gets wild. Lol.
    Seriously if the setup works for you then it’s fine. If the rings hold zero they are fine. Besides all the “cool guys” are going nearly 2” high anyways.

    But the light; the size is probably fine, but get a longer free float hand guard. This will move the light out towards the front. Drop the pressure pad thing that will probably get ripped off anyways.
    But if you are right handed shooter than keep the light on the side it’s in but it goes forward 6”.
     
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    Compooky

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    Nov 3, 2019
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    It’s kind of obvious that handguard is too short. Also looks uncomfortable with that tape switch location.

    No one is suggesting any handguards because there are too many options and no one knows wtf you want.
     
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    theLBC

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    personally, i like it on the left side, as far forward as possible.
    i'd start with a 4" longer hand guard.
    of course nobody can really tell you where you're gonna like it.
    i use a smaller surefire x400u.
     
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    nn8734

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    Good God Almighty. Y'all act like you've never seen scope rings before. I grew up in the 60's and 70's, when there was no such thing as a cantilever mount. Those are Millett Steel rings, listed as one inch, they've been on the gun since '09 (that's 2009, in case you weren't sure) and the damn scope hasn't moved a whisker since I mounted it, despite the gun being dropped, knocked over, tossed into vehicles, buried under mounds of gear, and shot a ton. If I mount the gun with my eyes closed, when I open them I'm looking dead straight through the center of the scope. So no, no need to "fix" anything there.

    The video would have been helpful if those guys actually talked more about guns and spent less time trying to be cute and funny, neither of which worked. The whole thing was stupid as shit, and full of vague opinions that didn't help. I know how to tighten screws down, and not everyone is built the same.

    I have run A2 stocks on my AR's since the 80's, they fit me fine, don't fucking rattle or wobble, don't need adjustment, and the price is right. I have yet to see a collapsible stock that didn't rattle, wobble, pinch my face or snag my facial hair. If there's a decent one out there it probably costs more than the gun, and I really don't see any reason to ditch the A2, it just flat works. If I rode around in a Bradley or HumVee all day, things might be different, but Unca Sammy and I parted ways in the 70's.

    Oh, and my light is HUGE? Go to the O-Light website and see what they're hawking. Most of their lights are as big as what I was using.

    How about some suggestions for a better forend? That's where the light has to go, but no one has even mentioned a forend yet.

    And close my dust cover? Why...does it offend you, make you blush maybe? I'm not in the Sandbox, we don't have dust storms here.

    I guess posting here was a mistake, I thought you guys were serious about this kind of shit. My bad. Fuckin' A.
    Handguard: Geissele mk16, mk14, mk8 or BCM, KAC URX 4 if you can find one and install a low pro gas block of your choice if your existing one wont fit under the new hand guard. 15” rails if running a 16” gun

    Light: Size isnt as important as weight, output and reliability - brand and placement on the rail is your call (i run all surefire Vampires or scouts)

    Stock: A2 is fine if it works for you; collapsible provides greater flexibility at the expense of a bit of wobble

    Rings/Height: Taller optical center gives a more “heads up” posture which reduces tension in neck/shoulders - especially if wearing a pack/plate carrier, etc; precision shots are still possible within the limits of the cartridge/system

    Will look better once you put a proper /modern forward rail system on the rifle

    Id run an RDS for fast, multiple targets in closer - mount it wherever it works best for you. But that’s up to you.
     

    drewthebrave

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    Aug 20, 2019
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    In all seriousness.
    I have never seen scope rings half that height before.
    That has to be some kind of scope elevation record never attained by mere man.

    Sit down before you check this out:

     

    Bigfatcock

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    Mounted on the bottom towards the muzzle. Easy to depress the cap to turn it on while holding it naturally.
     
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    Anb618

    In Valor, there is Hope.
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    Those are Millett Steel rings, listed as one inch…
    That would be for a 1” diameter scope tube, not listing the height.
    Those have to be at least 1.75” height.

    It’s not a legitimate problem, but some folks care too much about their rifle’s aesthetic appeal…

    For a quality light that won’t break the bank, go to Cloud Defensive and grab one of their Streamlight ProTac LCS kits. Great setup for the money, and extremely durable. I run all my ProTacs on the right side on a Magpul 45° rail, with the switch mounted at 12:00 so I can access it with either hand.
     

    pmclaine

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    Issue M&P had a stream light bottom rail forward on rail. It was manipulated with support hand index and usually got turned on and burned out by the stupid rack it was. Mounted in.

    Personal AR is Surefire X300 mounted same place operated same way.

    No pressure pad, just a light press on switch or you can actually toggle the seesaw switch if you want to.

    My AR has a fore grip and I prefer just pressing the rear of the 300 to turn it on, release pressure it turns off.
     

    Kadams1563

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  • Feb 13, 2017
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    Scope rings ain’t that bad if an issue since now 1.93 mounts are becoming the rage. I have two of them lol.
     

    502Chevelle

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    Do NOT mount it on the bottom like BFC recommends. When you light up someone in a dark room, and have the muzzle pointed at the center of their chest, your barrel will throw a big v shaped shadow over their face, and target ID becomes a problem.
     
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    Bigfatcock

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    Do NOT mount it on the bottom like BFC recommends. When you light up someone in a dark room, and have the muzzle pointed at the center of their chest, your barrel will throw a big v shaped shadow over their face, and target ID becomes a problem.
    Never had this issue.
     
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    msgriff

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    That would be for a 1” diameter scope tube, not listing the height.
    Those have to be at least 1.75” height.

    ...snip
    Millett, and a few others, list their dimensions to the bottom of the saddle. The OP's are actually sold as "Extra High".
     
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    TurboTrout

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    Do NOT mount it on the bottom like BFC recommends. When you light up someone in a dark room, and have the muzzle pointed at the center of their chest, your barrel will throw a big v shaped shadow over their face, and target ID becomes a problem.

    ?

    hasn’t that been the default for the MP5?

    328lmf-b-angle__66320__88408.1559589605.png
     
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    S197

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    Nov 22, 2019
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    Here's a question for those with the S&W MP-15's and similar guns......what's the best place to put your light? I've had an overly-large side-mounted light with a pressure pad mounted behind/under it, the light was on the front right of the handguard but it stuck out so far it seemed to snag on everything during drills and made the gun feel clubby and unwieldy. So I'm thinking about other options but I'm running out of them. Here's the rifle as it was an hour ago.



    I have a cheapo plastic rail I can attach to the sides or bottom of the foregrip, but if I mount the light on the side I have the same problem, and if I mount it underneath my hand has damned little to hang onto, and I like to have my support hand as far forward as possible. There is a small picatinny rail about an inch long on top of the gas block, but the gun is scoped and the light would block a significant portion of the field of view.

    I've thought about the O-Light PL Mini as an option, I have a couple of those, and it's the smallest thing I can find that might actually work. But with the height of both the base and the light itself, it still sticks up too far to use on top, and I am running out of options because I don't really know what else is out there to make this gun work with a light. The forend is a Magpul shorty, is there a better forend that would give me more options?

    I know AR-15's are just Lego sets, and maybe I don't have the right pieces on hand. But I'm also tired of buying parts that look decent but don't work out in the long run, and get stuffed in a box in the basement, never to see the light of day again.

    Any suggestions that will work with an "Optic Ready" MP-15? I'm cheap, but will happily buy what's needed here, the damn gun needs a light!
    With your current setup assuming that you shoot right handed, then the light is in the right place. If it’s on the other side, it will snag on your body when not shouldered. But with the light that far back, it will cast a large shadow. You would need at least a 13” freefloat rail. There are sales going on right now, or wait til black Friday.
     
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    Old Man with Gun

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    First, an AR has to be setup for night shooting or home defense as a whole. You have no iron sights and a scope where the minimum magnification probably makes any night shooting impractical. It also looks like it may be a cheap scope and probably has poor light gathering quality. Adding light that will restrict your pupils and destroy your natural night vision may make things worse.

    It will help us to know the conditions you want the light for. Is this home defense or you want to shoot coyotes at 100yds? Does the light need instant on/off for tactical applications?

    Also, what is the rifle for? I have AR builds with barrels from 5.5" to 24", optics range from red dots to 10-50x target scopes, some with lights, lasers, ets. Each was built for a purpose, what is yours?

    Your rail is very limiting, a free float handguard that ends just short of the barrel is idea for up to 18" barrels l in my experience.

    You probably need a different sight or another way to aim like laser light combination.

    I will assume home defense and driveway...

    Cheapest is get a red dot and most forward mounting light or a combo vertical forward grip and light (or laser light).

    Better would be...

    With your setup I suggest looking for a used upper with a long handguard that can mount backup iron sights, a red dot and light in just about any position. I am guessing you do not have the tools and knowledge to install a free float handguard, so this is probably just as cheap as replacing the handguard if you hire a smith.

    Now your options are open.

    I like bottom mount most of the time and like laser light combinations like the TLR-2.
     
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    Papajohn

    High Priest of the Powder Hoarders
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  • Sep 4, 2021
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    Coastal Misery
    Thank you all for the replies, even the ones saying the gun is ugly. I don't give a rat's ass what it looks like, this isn't about aesthetics. What I care about is the ergonomics, I'm 5'5" and dumpy and I don't want a heavy gun, I have plenty of those. This is my HD/SHTF gun, my other one is a plain-jane AK-47 clone but I like the feel of AR-15's a lot better.

    I decided that I needed a better scope on the gun, the Redfield 2x7 just doesn't give me enough range, and I like to shoot this gun at 300-400 yards now and then. So I mounted a Nikon 6x18, because old eyes need help, (I'm a shameless magnification whore anyway) and it's not really that much bigger/heavier. Red dots don't work for me past 75 yards or so, and I don't see the need for BUIS on this gun. There isn't really a good place to put them, I can't see well enough to use them except in full daylight, and I've been shooting AR's long enough to be a decent point-shooter out to 40 yards or better, and practice that when I can.

    The notion of a better/longer handguard seems to have the most merit. I've built AR's from the ground up, so I'm not a total schlub with tools, and I even considered grinding off the top of the gas block to allow a longer handguard to fit over the top. I could also replace it, right now I'm undecided what would be easier. I'm also a cheap bastid, and live on a meager monthly Gubmint SS check, so cost matters. There will not be any fancy lights used, especially the ones that cost more than the gun. I'm sure they're nice, and super-bright, but I'm thinking an O-Light PL Mini might work well here. I have them on a few guns, and like the switch setup. The pressure switch I used with the other light worked great, but the light itself was an El Cheapo, and I want more light than it can put out.

    Being a devoted fan of the KISS Principle, I just want a handguard that will reach to near the end of the barrel, with the light at the far end, to allow a full reach with my support arm. A light with a laser sounds like a great option, I'll probably wind up with the best version the budget will allow. The rifle doesn't need a lot of crap bolted to it, that just gives you more things to go south at the wrong time.

    When I get this all figured out and finished I'll post a pic, so y'all can either tell me how fugly it is, or how well it turned out, or whatever. Everyone's needs are a different, I learned that as a PD instructor and armorer. That was a long time ago, but the same rules still apply!
     

    TurboTrout

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    Thank you all for the replies, even the ones saying the gun is ugly. I don't give a rat's ass what it looks like, this isn't about aesthetics. What I care about is the ergonomics, I'm 5'5" and dumpy and I don't want a heavy gun, I have plenty of those. This is my HD/SHTF gun, my other one is a plain-jane AK-47 clone but I like the feel of AR-15's a lot better.

    I decided that I needed a better scope on the gun, the Redfield 2x7 just doesn't give me enough range, and I like to shoot this gun at 300-400 yards now and then. So I mounted a Nikon 6x18, because old eyes need help, (I'm a shameless magnification whore anyway) and it's not really that much bigger/heavier. Red dots don't work for me past 75 yards or so, and I don't see the need for BUIS on this gun. There isn't really a good place to put them, I can't see well enough to use them except in full daylight, and I've been shooting AR's long enough to be a decent point-shooter out to 40 yards or better, and practice that when I can.

    The notion of a better/longer handguard seems to have the most merit. I've built AR's from the ground up, so I'm not a total schlub with tools, and I even considered grinding off the top of the gas block to allow a longer handguard to fit over the top. I could also replace it, right now I'm undecided what would be easier. I'm also a cheap bastid, and live on a meager monthly Gubmint SS check, so cost matters. There will not be any fancy lights used, especially the ones that cost more than the gun. I'm sure they're nice, and super-bright, but I'm thinking an O-Light PL Mini might work well here. I have them on a few guns, and like the switch setup. The pressure switch I used with the other light worked great, but the light itself was an El Cheapo, and I want more light than it can put out.

    Being a devoted fan of the KISS Principle, I just want a handguard that will reach to near the end of the barrel, with the light at the far end, to allow a full reach with my support arm. A light with a laser sounds like a great option, I'll probably wind up with the best version the budget will allow. The rifle doesn't need a lot of crap bolted to it, that just gives you more things to go south at the wrong time.

    When I get this all figured out and finished I'll post a pic, so y'all can either tell me how fugly it is, or how well it turned out, or whatever. Everyone's needs are a different, I learned that as a PD instructor and armorer. That was a long time ago, but the same rules still apply!

    If this is a SHTF gun, a illuminated LPVO would be vastly better

    My understanding of a SHTF [car gun whatever] is a grabbing it as you run out the door and it’s all ya got, seems you have more a DMRish rifle, but if it’s just you I think a do all the things at 80% is better than some things at 90% others at 40%, if that makes sense

    I’d also very much find a good sling, I’d quasi duplicate a biathlon with the backpack type straps, especially since doomsday is likely to involve lots of walking and you went with a larger footprint AR, also a longer rail, maybe one of the carbon fiber ones to keep the weight down, also maybe ditch the fixed stock

    Hand guard

    Sling (get the shooting loop)


    Scope
     
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    rpoL98

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    if you're on a budget, the Geissele Count Blemula rails are price-attractive with Labor Day sale prices. they're Blem's, but nice ones. Probably be another batch at Thanksgiving. The popular tacticool ones usually sell out fast, although the BLEM black 15" Mk 16 seems to be more available.
     
    Last edited:

    Gustav7

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  • Jul 18, 2019
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    Thank you all for the replies, even the ones saying the gun is ugly. I don't give a rat's ass what it looks like, this isn't about aesthetics. What I care about is the ergonomics, I'm 5'5" and dumpy and I don't want a heavy gun, I have plenty of those. This is my HD/SHTF gun, my other one is a plain-jane AK-47 clone but I like the feel of AR-15's a lot better.

    I decided that I needed a better scope on the gun, the Redfield 2x7 just doesn't give me enough range, and I like to shoot this gun at 300-400 yards now and then. So I mounted a Nikon 6x18, because old eyes need help, (I'm a shameless magnification whore anyway) and it's not really that much bigger/heavier. Red dots don't work for me past 75 yards or so, and I don't see the need for BUIS on this gun. There isn't really a good place to put them, I can't see well enough to use them except in full daylight, and I've been shooting AR's long enough to be a decent point-shooter out to 40 yards or better, and practice that when I can.

    The notion of a better/longer handguard seems to have the most merit. I've built AR's from the ground up, so I'm not a total schlub with tools, and I even considered grinding off the top of the gas block to allow a longer handguard to fit over the top. I could also replace it, right now I'm undecided what would be easier. I'm also a cheap bastid, and live on a meager monthly Gubmint SS check, so cost matters. There will not be any fancy lights used, especially the ones that cost more than the gun. I'm sure they're nice, and super-bright, but I'm thinking an O-Light PL Mini might work well here. I have them on a few guns, and like the switch setup. The pressure switch I used with the other light worked great, but the light itself was an El Cheapo, and I want more light than it can put out.

    Being a devoted fan of the KISS Principle, I just want a handguard that will reach to near the end of the barrel, with the light at the far end, to allow a full reach with my support arm. A light with a laser sounds like a great option, I'll probably wind up with the best version the budget will allow. The rifle doesn't need a lot of crap bolted to it, that just gives you more things to go south at the wrong time.

    When I get this all figured out and finished I'll post a pic, so y'all can either tell me how fugly it is, or how well it turned out, or whatever. Everyone's needs are a different, I learned that as a PD instructor and armorer. That was a long time ago, but the same rules still apply!

    I highly suggest looking at the Streamlight options. The Olight PL mini is like $80. For $25 more you could have a far superior light, one that is actually recommended as a quality budget option found here --> Streamlight Pro Tac HLX

    If you feel thats over your budget or too powerful look at the smaller version of what I put above for $85, found here --> Streamlight Pro Tac Rail Mount 1
     

    hlee

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    Yep. Just imagining him run through his house with weed eater ear muffs on with that sportsman's guide parts gun doing his one man CQB like a true patriot.
    Or picking off zombies at 400y…
     

    TurboTrout

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    6,399
    East Coast
    Yep. Just imagining him run through his house with weed eater ear muffs on with that sportsman's guide parts gun doing his one man CQB like a true patriot.

    Uhhh yeah how one outfits their AR defies how they are a patriot


    GTFO with that
     

    Jackalope

    OI! Boys not Soy Boys
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jun 8, 2017
    453
    841
    Flagstaff AZ
    Barrel clamp it like an OG.

    CDB97B08-AA69-4E9A-A4BD-A4489B05EF5F.jpeg


    You should also re-evaluate some choices for an HD gun (put a red dot on it.) If you have plenty of other rifles, maybe one of them should be your now-and-then 400 yard gun. You may not be able to see BUIS in the dark but that’s kinda what the light is for, no?

    If you’re 5’5”, an A2 stock is way too long for you. A carbine receiver extensions will give you a lot more options. The magpul CTR stock is light and has a friction lock if you’re worried about rattle.
     
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