Looking to switch from my AR15 with 26" barrel to a bolt action. Wondering what you all are shooting? I am leaning toward the Savage 12 F/TR with 30" barrel or the Savage 12 LRPV Left Port, both with 1:7 twist. Or should I be looking for something else? I would like to keep it under 1200$ since I will be buying one for the wife as well.
F T/R Competition Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
- Thread starter Quinc
- Start date
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
*crickets*
You may get a response but there aren't many. I know of one person shooting the 223 at 1000, not in TR but in Palma. I didn't hear tell of anyone at Raton with a .223 and I've personally never seen one on the line around here.
At 600 yards the 223 doesn't give up too much to the 308s but at 1000 it's just too hard to get one to run even close to the 308s windage. Randy Hermann shoots his Palma gun with the Berger 90s at 1000 and has put up some great Palma scores, but he's also a High Master with a ton of experience.
If you are really interested in trying to make a run at shooting a 223 take a look in here and find some of the posted from SIE107 I think is his handle. I started a thread a few months ago about shooting a 223 at mid range and he added some comments.
If you plan to shoot it at 600, then I'd jump on a Savage F/TR. You could also use a Savage F class and rebarrel it. You can pick the 6.5/284s up for about $800 to $900, you'd need a barrel and a boltface. I'm doing that for mid range, but I'm getting a second bolt, it's not expensive. If you pick up a prefit you can do the swap yourself, you could do that and eventually get a 308 barrel and then swap barrels if you wanted to do the 308 at 1000 or the 223 at 600.
*crickets*
You may get a response but there aren't many. I know of one person shooting the 223 at 1000, not in TR but in Palma. I didn't hear tell of anyone at Raton with a .223 and I've personally never seen one on the line around here.
At 600 yards the 223 doesn't give up too much to the 308s but at 1000 it's just too hard to get one to run even close to the 308s windage. Randy Hermann shoots his Palma gun with the Berger 90s at 1000 and has put up some great Palma scores, but he's also a High Master with a ton of experience.
If you are really interested in trying to make a run at shooting a 223 take a look in here and find some of the posted from SIE107 I think is his handle. I started a thread a few months ago about shooting a 223 at mid range and he added some comments.
If you plan to shoot it at 600, then I'd jump on a Savage F/TR. You could also use a Savage F class and rebarrel it. You can pick the 6.5/284s up for about $800 to $900, you'd need a barrel and a boltface. I'm doing that for mid range, but I'm getting a second bolt, it's not expensive. If you pick up a prefit you can do the swap yourself, you could do that and eventually get a 308 barrel and then swap barrels if you wanted to do the 308 at 1000 or the 223 at 600.
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wwbrown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ones that are chambered in 308 Win if you want to stick in FT/R or go F-open and you can use a lot of different 223 chamberings like 6.5 x 47L, 260, 284
</div></div>
That makes... no sense. Are you aware of the calibers allowed for F/TR?
For the OP... I know one person who has ran a .223 Rem at LR F-Class with anything I'd call 'success' - Laurie Holland, over in the UK. You can dig around on targetshooter.uk and on accurateshooter.com for some of his writings on the topic. That said, in my experience its a *whole* lot more work just to maybe shoot inside a .30 cal 155gn - and odds are good you'll still get beat up on by .308s shooting heavy bullets when the conditions get nasty. For the people shooting conventional Prone, whether Palma or Fullbore, where 99% of the .308s *are* shooting 155s... a .223 90gn - or even 80gn - can more than hold its own. In the current LR F/TR trend towards 185s and 200s... not so much.
If the vast majority of your match time is going to be at mid range (600yds and in) I'd say go ahead with the .223 Rem anyway. At those distances, its entirely possible to kick butt with a .223, and its cheaper and more enjoyable to shoot, and you can still do well enough @ LR if the winds are mild-ish.
Monte
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wwbrown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ones that are chambered in 308 Win if you want to stick in FT/R or go F-open and you can use a lot of different 223 chamberings like 6.5 x 47L, 260, 284
</div></div>
That makes... no sense. Are you aware of the calibers allowed for F/TR?
For the OP... I know one person who has ran a .223 Rem at LR F-Class with anything I'd call 'success' - Laurie Holland, over in the UK. You can dig around on targetshooter.uk and on accurateshooter.com for some of his writings on the topic. That said, in my experience its a *whole* lot more work just to maybe shoot inside a .30 cal 155gn - and odds are good you'll still get beat up on by .308s shooting heavy bullets when the conditions get nasty. For the people shooting conventional Prone, whether Palma or Fullbore, where 99% of the .308s *are* shooting 155s... a .223 90gn - or even 80gn - can more than hold its own. In the current LR F/TR trend towards 185s and 200s... not so much.
If the vast majority of your match time is going to be at mid range (600yds and in) I'd say go ahead with the .223 Rem anyway. At those distances, its entirely possible to kick butt with a .223, and its cheaper and more enjoyable to shoot, and you can still do well enough @ LR if the winds are mild-ish.
Monte
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wwbrown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ones that are chambered in 308 Win if you want to stick in FT/R or go F-open and you can use a lot of different 223 chamberings like 6.5 x 47L, 260, 284
</div></div>
That makes... no sense. Are you aware of the calibers allowed for F/TR?</div></div>
Guessing there is a typo there, probably got edited and left something in.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wwbrown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ones that are chambered in 308 Win if you want to stick in FT/R or go F-open and you can use a lot of different 223 chamberings like 6.5 x 47L, 260, 284
</div></div>
That makes... no sense. Are you aware of the calibers allowed for F/TR?</div></div>
Guessing there is a typo there, probably got edited and left something in.
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
Quinc, Sean M. has three of the 12Fs in .223/.306 and 6BR, you should hit him up for details (on Calguns: Mattt)
His .223 is a hammer at 600yds (and probably beyond but he usually grabs the .308 for the LR strings) and with its 30" tube and 7 twist you can run the 80s/82s fast enough to shoot well inside most .308s at distance.
Beware though; if you get the .223 you'll need another bolt if you rebarrel to a round with a .473" casehead.
Limey Laurie isn't the only one to win with a .223 in F/TR. I managed a couple with this WOA gasser that I started with in 2010.
But I have to say, the 6 Dasher stole my heart. Here's a Savage rebarreled to 6 Dasher w/a Sightron 36X scope for a decent price http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3800614.msg36146745#msg36146745
See you at the Palma on the 12th?
Quinc, Sean M. has three of the 12Fs in .223/.306 and 6BR, you should hit him up for details (on Calguns: Mattt)
His .223 is a hammer at 600yds (and probably beyond but he usually grabs the .308 for the LR strings) and with its 30" tube and 7 twist you can run the 80s/82s fast enough to shoot well inside most .308s at distance.
Beware though; if you get the .223 you'll need another bolt if you rebarrel to a round with a .473" casehead.
Limey Laurie isn't the only one to win with a .223 in F/TR. I managed a couple with this WOA gasser that I started with in 2010.
But I have to say, the 6 Dasher stole my heart. Here's a Savage rebarreled to 6 Dasher w/a Sightron 36X scope for a decent price http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3800614.msg36146745#msg36146745
See you at the Palma on the 12th?
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
I do know what calibers are used for FT/R. I was trying to encourage the OP to use something other than a 223 at the 1,000 yard line.. I know people who do shoot the 223 from at 1k in F-class but it is a hard way to get to 1,000 yards. That is why I said get one chambered in 308 if you want to stay in FT/R and choose one of the other calibers if you want to go to F-open.
I have seen very good shooters lose a match due to bullet failure on 223's. You have to load hot to with the 223 at 1,000 yards and this stresses everything and if you have bullet failure you get a 0 for that shot and even if you shoot the entire target clean except for the shot if will probably not win the match. A 223 at 1,000 yards is a great to learn wind-reading skills as you will see bullet deviations from any change in wind and there is a lot of value there.
I do know what calibers are used for FT/R. I was trying to encourage the OP to use something other than a 223 at the 1,000 yard line.. I know people who do shoot the 223 from at 1k in F-class but it is a hard way to get to 1,000 yards. That is why I said get one chambered in 308 if you want to stay in FT/R and choose one of the other calibers if you want to go to F-open.
I have seen very good shooters lose a match due to bullet failure on 223's. You have to load hot to with the 223 at 1,000 yards and this stresses everything and if you have bullet failure you get a 0 for that shot and even if you shoot the entire target clean except for the shot if will probably not win the match. A 223 at 1,000 yards is a great to learn wind-reading skills as you will see bullet deviations from any change in wind and there is a lot of value there.
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killshot44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quinc, Sean M. has three of the 12Fs in .223/.306 and 6BR, you should hit him up for details (on Calguns: Mattt)
His .223 is a hammer at 600yds (and probably beyond but he usually grabs the .308 for the LR strings) and with its 30" tube and 7 twist you can run the 80s/82s fast enough to shoot well inside most .308s at distance.
Beware though; if you get the .223 you'll need another bolt if you rebarrel to a round with a .473" casehead.
Limey Laurie isn't the only one to win with a .223 in F/TR. I managed a couple with this WOA gasser that I started with in 2010.
But I have to say, the 6 Dasher stole my heart. Here's a Savage rebarreled to 6 Dasher w/a Sightron 36X scope for a decent price http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3800614.msg36146745#msg36146745
See you at the Palma on the 12th? </div></div>
I have my gas gun up for sale. Need to sell her first before I buy anything. That Dasher is looking nice too. Do you think meloniting the barrel would help with round count without effecting accuracy? Wifes b-day is that weekend, hmm might have to drop her off at the Roseville mall on the way down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killshot44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quinc, Sean M. has three of the 12Fs in .223/.306 and 6BR, you should hit him up for details (on Calguns: Mattt)
His .223 is a hammer at 600yds (and probably beyond but he usually grabs the .308 for the LR strings) and with its 30" tube and 7 twist you can run the 80s/82s fast enough to shoot well inside most .308s at distance.
Beware though; if you get the .223 you'll need another bolt if you rebarrel to a round with a .473" casehead.
Limey Laurie isn't the only one to win with a .223 in F/TR. I managed a couple with this WOA gasser that I started with in 2010.
But I have to say, the 6 Dasher stole my heart. Here's a Savage rebarreled to 6 Dasher w/a Sightron 36X scope for a decent price http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3800614.msg36146745#msg36146745
See you at the Palma on the 12th? </div></div>
I have my gas gun up for sale. Need to sell her first before I buy anything. That Dasher is looking nice too. Do you think meloniting the barrel would help with round count without effecting accuracy? Wifes b-day is that weekend, hmm might have to drop her off at the Roseville mall on the way down.
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
Don't laugh but I use my Savage, backed with a healthy load of Varget to push 75grn Amax's to 1K with ease. I've won a few matches with that rifle. To this date I've never shot a more accurate rifle to 1K.
I bedded the rifle in a Bell & Carlson stock and it shoots amazing. It still has it's factory barrel on it, which Savage says it's a 1:9 twist, but a quick check and it's actually a 1:8.8 twist.
Don't laugh but I use my Savage, backed with a healthy load of Varget to push 75grn Amax's to 1K with ease. I've won a few matches with that rifle. To this date I've never shot a more accurate rifle to 1K.
I bedded the rifle in a Bell & Carlson stock and it shoots amazing. It still has it's factory barrel on it, which Savage says it's a 1:9 twist, but a quick check and it's actually a 1:8.8 twist.
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 284fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.223 at 1K scares me. But I hammer at 600 with 80 VLD's at 2875. </div></div>
As long as it's not too windy it's easier than most think. Especially since the .223 only has a range of 200 yards.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 284fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.223 at 1K scares me. But I hammer at 600 with 80 VLD's at 2875. </div></div>
As long as it's not too windy it's easier than most think. Especially since the .223 only has a range of 200 yards.
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
Below is the 223 that i have been shooting at 1000yard FTR matches for the past 4 years.....80g Bergers @ 3000fps
Below is the 223 that i have been shooting at 1000yard FTR matches for the past 4 years.....80g Bergers @ 3000fps
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SNAFUBAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Below is the 223 that i have been shooting at 1000yard FTR matches for the past 4 years.....80g Bergers @ 3000fps
</div></div>
Nice looking rifle! What is it, and what bipod is that?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SNAFUBAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Below is the 223 that i have been shooting at 1000yard FTR matches for the past 4 years.....80g Bergers @ 3000fps
Nice looking rifle! What is it, and what bipod is that?
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
where do you get a bibod like that thing
where do you get a bibod like that thing
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: havefaith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">where do you get a bibod like that thing </div></div>
http://www.censhot.com/
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: havefaith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">where do you get a bibod like that thing </div></div>
http://www.censhot.com/
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
Quinc...it is an old Remington 40X with a #17 contour Brux 29" bbl - factory stock and trigger...centershot bipod...Nightforce 8-32 scope on a Badger 20MOA rail
Quinc...it is an old Remington 40X with a #17 contour Brux 29" bbl - factory stock and trigger...centershot bipod...Nightforce 8-32 scope on a Badger 20MOA rail
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
shooting at 1K is tuff......using a 223 makes it tuffer...
bill larson
shooting at 1K is tuff......using a 223 makes it tuffer...
bill larson
Re: Which .223 rifles are you using for F-Class / 1k?
I have a 223 bolt gun that shoots lights out with Hornady 80 A-Maxes. Shot a Fullbore match with it: 300, 600, 800, 1K. I was leading F-TR....until I got to 1K. Had only dropped 5 points up to 800 yards and then dropped 17 at 1K....it turned into a shotgun. I had a sling shooter next too me also shooting 223REM. He was using Sierra 90s and his performance was much better at 1K. His group with irons and sling was much better than mine with scope and bipod. The difference was the bullet: 90 grain SMK vs my 80gr A-MAx.
800 and less and the 223REM is every bit the equal to 308 in F-class. But its tough to get the mouse gun to shoot at 1K....more the exception than the rule.
I have a 223 bolt gun that shoots lights out with Hornady 80 A-Maxes. Shot a Fullbore match with it: 300, 600, 800, 1K. I was leading F-TR....until I got to 1K. Had only dropped 5 points up to 800 yards and then dropped 17 at 1K....it turned into a shotgun. I had a sling shooter next too me also shooting 223REM. He was using Sierra 90s and his performance was much better at 1K. His group with irons and sling was much better than mine with scope and bipod. The difference was the bullet: 90 grain SMK vs my 80gr A-MAx.
800 and less and the 223REM is every bit the equal to 308 in F-class. But its tough to get the mouse gun to shoot at 1K....more the exception than the rule.
