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Night Vision Which Thermal weaponsight?

Jumper

I have a rendezvous with death
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Dec 15, 2008
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    some disputed barricade
    So I have decided that it's time to expand my capabilities and I think a thermal weaponsight is the way to go. I will likely be using it to scan a large field from an elevated platform for coyotes and such and could engage targets out to about 900yds. It would live on an AR 10 rifle. I figure with a tripod from the platform I could effectively use it to scan. I'm assuming here that the video output could be ported to a tablet or phone instead of looking into the viewfinder for extended periods? Leaning toward the 60mm Trijicon REAP IR. Could use some advice here. Thanks
     
    900 yds? That’s a long poke. Especially with thermal.


    My vote goes to LWTS-LR
    Or a dedicated clip on like a HISS or INOD
    Or Utc if you’re one of the Poors

    If your field is mostly clear of brush/debris/etc I vote for a good therma scanner, and a good clip on NV like a 30. Plus a good illuminator like a peq2
     
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    ... I don't know what any of those things are but I want to learn. Would love to add NV to the stash. Looking to hear other answers and begin my research.
     
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    To shoot a coyote at 900 would be hard for most thermals. Your best bet would be the HALO-LR. You'd get a better picture with the 60mm trijicon, but you'll have a better reticle with the HALO-LR.

    Consider thermal scanner (accolade 2 seems neat. haven't used it) and a PVS30 with a bright laser illuminator. Pick up the hot thing with a thermal on tripod, lase it, get on the rifle with the pvs30, shoot it.

    It's not that you can't do it with thermal. It'd be more efficient to (shorter kill chain, less chance of losing it). A thermal that lets you use your day optic reticle (aka a clip on) that can resolve out to 900m is just cost prohibitive for most people.
     
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    Great info. I barely know enough to be dangerous. I can see out to 900yds but I don't really plan on shooting that far. It's just the scenario for choosing something other than a day optic. Open to night vision too, but spotting game with NV in a bean field seemed to be better done with thermal
     
    Unfortunately, long range shooting and scanning do not go together. A scope like a Trijicon mk3 60mm similar to what was mentioned earlier is going to be one of the best as a dedicated sight at engaging long targets, but 900 yards is way further than you can expect with any civilian thermal. You can see the coyotes easily at that distance with most thermals, but not shoot consistently. The second part of the issue is the field of view is going to be too limited to use as a scanner. I would recommend a thermal scanner with a wider field of view, and then a thermal to shoot (but not at these distances), or Night Vision.

    You were typing at the same time. I am prostaff for Night Googles/TNVC and help lots of people with recommending good options based on their need. Feel free to reach out and I will provide my contact info. The main items that will help me assist you are budget, terrain, and intended usage and I have quite a bit of this info already.
     
    Target detection is way easier with thermal but most thermal scopes won't give you the reticle, turrets, or resolution you want for a 900m shot. I'd define how far you want to be able to shoot out to and how far you're mostly going to be shooting before buying anything. A 19mm trijicon isn't better or worse than a 60mm trijicon, they're different tools that just so happen to see in the same spectrum.
     
    Ok, carefully considering what I want to do here and I think NV and a laser and maybe IR illum are going to be the solution. NV worn on helmet for scanning, laser device on rifle,for aiming and IR illuminator.

    Pros: see in the dark, aim in the dark.

    Cons: active solution versus the passive detection of the thermal sensor.

    What else? What units work well together?

    I used AN/PVS 7's back in my Army days. Never paired them with a PEQ unit though. Today I guess it's DBAL ?
     
    As has been mentioned here, forget about 500+ yard shots with thermal at small-ish critters (yotes, deer). You could *probably* get away with it using a UTC-Xii, but even that’s asking a lot. You can easily *detect* at 2,000 yards with many thermals, but sending lead down range at those distances is “uncomfortable,” to say the least.

    But... since you mentioned that you really don’t intend engaging at those extreme ranges, the ReapIR 60mm will get you to 300+ in most cases without a problem. Maybe even 400-500y.

    The Halo-LR is very similar to the Reap60. Flip a coin.

    The LWTS-LR is similar to both, but with a smidge extra reach and some fancy reticles and features, including being able to be used as a clip-on. It’s also double the price of the Halo/Reap ($15K).

    I have all three, and the UTC as well. If you have $25K, snag a UTC.
     
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    As has been mentioned here, forget about 500+ yard shots with thermal at small-ish critters (yotes, deer).

    500 isn't out of the question in the right conditions. I checked with a buddy of mine that does coyote control on numerous high country ranches (little humidity) and his longest kill with a 35 mm 2.5x Trijicon MKII is 520 yards. I don't think there would be a problem for shooting hogs with a Trijicon 4.5x 60mm at that distance if a person had the skills to make the shot. I am not that person, however. My fartherest is 365 and I try to keep mine under 300.
     
    There are all sorts of implications with long range engagements with thermal. Unless you have an LRF, you're screwed. If you go with a dedicated, you've got to have a mil reticle option and only the Halo and LWTS have that to my knowledge. With a Reap, you're gambling any time you take a shot at night without an LRF, and especially if it's over 150 yards caliber depending.

    Whatever you do, get a LRF. Get a mil based reticle option and know your dope. As mentioned, Halo-LR, LWTS-LR, or UTCxii would be the best options. For anything over 300 yards, I'd stick with the UTCxii and a weapons mounted LRF.
     
    500 isn't out of the question in the right conditions. I checked with a buddy of mine that does coyote control on numerous high country ranches (little humidity) and his longest kill with a 35 mm 2.5x Trijicon MKII is 520 yards. I don't think there would be a problem for shooting hogs with a Trijicon 4.5x 60mm at that distance if a person had the skills to make the shot. I am not that person, however. My fartherest is 365 and I try to keep mine under 300.

    You and I occupy similar realities.

    Perhaps I'm overreacting, but I can't see being able to 100% positively ID any critter smaller than an adult cow at 500 yards with any 35mm thermal. I would venture that he's super-familiar with his area and knows that what he shot at could really only be a 'yote. Stick someone unfamiliar with the area behind the same scope and I seriously doubt they would be comfortable throwing a lead projectile at a 5-pixel blob over 1/4 mile away. Just because we can, doesn't mean we should. I've had the misfortune of popping a dog at 120 yards that had an identical silhouette to any 'yote I've ever seen, and up to that point I'd always thought I was a "100% guy" -- meaning I'm so conservative with my shot, having passed on many that I was all-but certain were 'yotes, that I'd never pop anything other than a legit target. I also thought I was good enough to never have an ND, but I've been humbled in that department too.

    Sure, this is subjective, but I'm going to have to see hard data that you can PID a 'yote at 500 yards using thermal. I can detect them all day with the UTC/LWTS-LR/Reap60/Halo-LR, but I just can't be 100% that they're what I'm pretty sure they are. Sure, I could probably hit them, but...

    Just my $0.02 in a world where pennies are worthless.
     
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    Perhaps I'm overreacting, but I can't see being able to 100% positively ID any critter at 500 yards with any 35mm thermal smaller than an adult cow.

    Playing devil's advocate here, if you are having that much trouble, then I am not sure how you will know it is an adult cow. The identification process varies from person to person. I make a lot of very long distance "identifications" based on shape and movement. These are 2D shapes, right, which is the nature of thermal. These are not quick identifications and sometimes may require minutes to do. I suspect that other folks do the same thing. One could argue that I am not making proper identifications and I would agree as a matter of fact, but not as a matter of practicality. Moreover, I would argue that everybody using thermal except at close range is doing what I do or a variation of it in order to make their PIDs and feel completely justified in their minds when using thermal. Calling them "identifications" or "PIDs" may be a bit of a misnomer.

    Except as close ranges, people are going through a decision tree process of identification to rule in and rule out targets. Case and point, most folks would not be able to rule between a blackbacked jackal and a coyote at 200 yards through thermal. The counter argument to that is, "But there are no blackbacked jackals running free in the United States. Okay. That may be true, but given that it is true, can you truly identify the coyote at 200 yards or are you making a series of assumptions such as that nobody has released some blackbacked jackals or similar animals? Could you tell them apart at 100 yards? Does the American hunter even know the profiles of all of the potential canids well enough to make such distinctions. If not, then is an "identification" truly being made or is it just a recognition and best guess given likelihoods? It is the latter.

    My point is that we are all makes a series of assumptions when we make identifications at range with thermal, even with a lot of pixels.

    How good one becomes at interpreting their pixelated images will go a long way toward their success and failure. I find that I can "identify" targets much better than folks with less experience when using the same gear. Things I often see being confused are hogs and deer (with heads down in tall grass), coyotes and deer, jackrabbits and coyotes, hogs and bedded calves, feral hogs and javelina, calves and deer, raccoons and opossums, raccoons and armadillos, opossums and armadillos, PSRs (pig-shaped rocks) for hogs.

    So I am not knocking what you are saying, just including the aspect that a lot of PIDs are anything but truly PIDs. They are assumptive, based on interpretation and experience which will play into how accurate they turn out to be.
     
    There are all sorts of implications with long range engagements with thermal. Unless you have an LRF, you're screwed. If you go with a dedicated, you've got to have a mil reticle option and only the Halo and LWTS have that to my knowledge. With a Reap, you're gambling any time you take a shot at night without an LRF, and especially if it's over 150 yards caliber depending.

    Whatever you do, get a LRF. Get a mil based reticle option and know your dope. As mentioned, Halo-LR, LWTS-LR, or UTCxii would be the best options. For anything over 300 yards, I'd stick with the UTCxii and a weapons mounted LRF.

    My man. Said it better than I ever could.