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Which would you keep given my current rifles? 6mm ARC or 6.5 Grendel

S

SMTGWKD

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Mar 3, 2017
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Story time kids...

Here's the skinny on the platforms I'm thinking about - every time I go hunting for anything hog/deer/elk and similar I reach for one of the Creedmoors (even though I've always talked about taking a Grendel or ARC). That said, I do anticipate taking either a Grendel or ARC out next time.

6mm ARC
18" Proof/JP/Radian Build
12.5" Faxon/2A Pistol Build

6.5mm Grendel
12.5" Faxon/Aero Upper
16" Faxon/Aero/Odin Build

6.5 Creedmoor
16" Q Fix Rifle/Proof Rifle
20" 2A/JP/Proof Build
26" Desert Tech SRS

I have a 204 Ruger barrel coming from Wilson Combat..

Would you:

1. Sell the Grendel stuff and use 6mm ARC in the long range/competition/hunting AR-15 role?
OR
2. Keep all of them, add a new upper build with the Wilson Combat 204, and toss a coin to decide which of the 12.5" uppers to sell?

Thank you in advance for your insights - I have a tender spot for the Grendel, but the ARC and Grendel are so close as to be redundant. Grendel positives are 1) access to inexpensive ammo (but I have 6 5.56 rifles that shoot cheap ammo also), and 2) I shoot a bullet in Grendel (123 ELD-M) that I could also shoot in Creedmoor, if desired.
 
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I am building a Grendel for that exact purpose: it's lighter and handier than my 6.5 Creed and still lethal as far as I care to shoot it, uses the same bullet I use in one of my Creed loads, you can buy decent ammo, etc.
 
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Question: why add a 204?

I'm of the view you have a ton of overlap adding new platform is logistical complex...

Lrp, Srp primers plus
.378, .473, .444 bolt faces
.204,.223,.243,.264 calibers

A lot of tooling & inventory cost for such close performance
 
ma smith said:
Question: why add a 204?

I'm of the view you have a ton of overlap adding new platform is logistical complex...

Lrp, Srp primers plus
.378, .473, .444 bolt faces
.204,.223,.243,.264 calibers

A lot of tooling & inventory cost for such close performance
Click to expand...
I'm with you - I didn't even include 300 blackout in the mix!

The real overlap here is the Grendel and ARC. I use the AR modularity to make it a bit easier with the one off chamberings and a single upper, but to your point - I'd like to pare down to a battle round (5.56), an efficient PRS/hunting small frame round (ARC or Grendel), and a large frame PRS/Hunting round (6.5 Creed).

The 204 would be a barrel in an existing upper/handguard/gas block I have laying around.

The 300 blackout is a complete BCM upper that will be easy to sell - I've considered it many times as it really doesn't do anything my other stuff doesn't (when including subsonic 9mm) unless I plan to carry a super and sub magazine with me.
 
My most carried rifle is an 18” 6.5 Grendel. Good velocity with 123 ELD-M factory loads, but not a total pike with a suppressor.

6 arc may be a tad better in drop and drift, but the Grendel is a bit better in KE on target. I know a lot of guys like short rifles, but I don’t want to lose that much velocity. I’d lose the pistol builds in these cartridges. I wouldn’t add a 204. And, if I really needed to streamline, I’d lose the chambering that had the poorer ammo availability. Historically, in this area, that would be the 6 arc.

But, I agree with ‘never sell a firearm…’
 
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To the "never sell a firearm" - I would only be selling a couple of barrels along with all the ammo and tooling for them. The firearm is the lower and those stick around.

Good insight on the 204. May be time to consolidate based on ammunition and not huge versatility.

As I think about this - it really isn't the 6 ARC I love so much as it is the build (really high quality). That decision would boil down to replacing the proof barrel 6mm arc with a Proof 6.5 Grendel and I'm sure I'd love them.

If only Varget, RL16 or H4350 worked well in the Grendel!
 
I switch between a 6 arc and 7.62x39 uppers depending on if I am hunting deer / prs shooting or hunting hogs. My sidearm is a 7.5 fk BRNO. My AR-10 is a aero precision m5 with a 24 inch upper and a carbon fiber 14.5 inch upper depending on how long I need to carry it / shoot it. Both in 308. My bolt gun is 300 PRC. There is not a single situation where I am not prepared with an ideal platform between two lowers and a bolt gun.
 
TheHebrewHammer said:
I switch between a 6 arc and 7.62x39 uppers depending on if I am hunting deer / prs shooting or hunting hogs. My sidearm is a 7.5 fk BRNO. My AR-10 is a aero precision m5 with a 24 inch upper and a carbon fiber 14.5 inch upper depending on how long I need to carry it / shoot it. Both in 308. My bolt gun is 300 PRC. There is not a single situation where I am not prepared with an ideal platform between two lowers and a bolt gun.
Click to expand...
Heresy! No 5.56?!? I kid...

That's the line of thought I began with, then realized I preferred different configurations for different purposes (Rifle buffer vs Carbine vs SBR, etc).

Truth be told - I have quite a few firearms because I like them (enter 10mm KRISS vector paired with a g20 Glock).
20220101_221037.jpg

Not because they fill any particular need that others don't. I think I've finally hit the limit for complexity and am realizing I need to stop strategizing new builds and start shooting what I have. Something's gonna go!
 
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Oh no I love my APC9, my agency arms 9mm, my 50AE Deagle, my nambu, and the dozens of other guns I've only shot a couple times. But I am starting to convert more of my extra toys into investment firearms recently. I enjoy limiting my "ready to go" set ups to a couple and hoarding ammo for them. That being said, I keep looking at an HCAR or Nemo Omen as a larger caliber semi auto for hogs, but I just don't know if the differences in ballistics and firepower between 308 and 30-06 / 300 win mag can justify the $5k gun, $3k optics, $6k thermal clip on, and $2k of ammo.
 
If I had a nickel for every time I've looked at a Nemo Omen!

Totally get it - bottom line is none of my ARC or Grendel's are shiny objects. They are tools - and they are tools that fill the exact same role.

To your point, I may consolidate a bit and use the funds to upgrade optics, thermal, etc. Then shoot the crap out of what I have.

Really embarrassing first world problems here, but when I get too many irons in the fire I lose interest in actually shooting.
 
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SMTGWKD said:
Appreciate the experience - no issues on deer-sized game?
Click to expand...
No issues. I'm running the Hornady 100 grn. HPBT. That bullet is shooting 3/4 MOA. Just started playing with the 87 V Max just to try something different. The 100 HPBT was one of the first bullets i tried because they were cheaper than the rest. It shot them so well i just never tried any tning else.
 
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I've also never had trouble taking down large hogs or deer with my 108gr eld x out of a 16inch barrel. I've shot deer running in the stomach and the round fragmented all the way into the heart and lungs. If I hit something it always dies pretty quickly. That being said I do enjoy lining up hogs and getting out the israeli black tip 7.62.
 
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If you’re more of a competition/long range shooter, then keep the ARC. If you’re more of a hunter who dabbles in long range….keep the Grendel.
 
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Neither is really a PRS round. Anything you can shoot in a small frame is props to jets compared to anything that fits in a large frame.
 
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6ARC: Keep the 18" Proof upper. Sell the 12". I suspect the Proof is probably the best shooter of the listed small frame rifles.

Grendel: Keep the 12" Faxon for a super handy hunting/backpack/truck gun. Sell the 16" upper, as it doesn't do much that the 18" ARC and 12" Grendel don't already cover.
 
Thanks Drew - I'm strongly considering that and you are correct, the Proof is the best shooter, although not by much. The 16”Faxon shoots lights out as well.

One issue with keeping both chamberings is keeping all the reloading components for both - unless I choose to shoot factory. Think a 6.5G is that much better in the 12.5" length than a 6 ARC? Strelok actually gives the energy nod to the ARC. Bigger hole with the G I guess.

My biggest issue with both ARC and Grendel is the use of temp sensitive powders to get velocity. My loads are with Varget and xbr8208 to keep variability down.
 
SMTGWKD said:
Thanks Drew - I'm strongly considering that and you are correct, the Proof is the best shooter, although not by much. The 16”Faxon shoots lights out as well.

One issue with keeping both chamberings is keeping all the reloading components for both - unless I choose to shoot factory. Think a 6.5G is that much better in the 12.5" length than a 6 ARC? Strelok actually gives the energy nod to the ARC. Bigger hole with the G I guess.
Click to expand...

The case could easily be made to keep one rifle of each caliber so that you have greater chance of finding ammo & components during shortages. OR you could make just as strong a case to divest the "redundant" caliber so you can stock up more ammo & components in reserve to prepare for shortages.

Honestly, they're close enough in performance that if you're planning to get rid of one caliber altogether, you could probably flip a coin and not go wrong either way.

I don't reload, so I'm content with my 6.5 Grendel for now - but since you do reload, the 6ARC seems more appealing. As your terminal energy calculations show, any small- or medium-sized game you hunt will end up just as dead with a .243 as they would with a .264 bullet from an AR15 anyway.

Good luck! Just know that if when you eventually decide to keep them all and build your 204 Ruger, then maybe some 300 HAMR, 350 Legend, and 450 Bushmaster rifles to mix it up, we all support your indecision 100%.
 
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I have been thinking about doing one or the other. I am leaning towards the ARC only because it gives me another option when I am looking for bullets to reload with. I have a 6.5C but I only keep 140 class bullets stocked up. Seems like 6mm/.243 is always on the shelves at my honey holes. I have a ton of CCI 41 primes and a healthy supply of Varget. No brass for either and that may influence things.

The one question I keep asking myself is if I am really gaining anything for what my uses are. Then I ask myself does that really matter a new rifle is always a good thing
 
@drewthebrave: Ha - you are what they call an "enabler" and I love it!

Great logic. I'm going to go shoot the ARCs for a while and see if I miss the Grendels. I may just keep a Grendel barrel as insurance against your case above (ammo shortage). However, it appears that ARC has a greater cross section in powder to other chamberings I have so stocking up is easier.
 
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If I didn't already have the Grendels I would have chosen the ARC for my purposes. The 6mm weight/size/velocity seems pretty much perfectly balanced in the AR-15 platform. I've always wished I had a 243 LBC or similar chambering but wished there were SAAMI support and factory backing. The ARC brings that to the table - albeit at reduced velocities to some of the variants.
 
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OREGUN said:
Never sell a firearm.

it’s the corollary to “buy more ammo”.

keep them all, build more to suit new needs.
Click to expand...
SMTGWKD said:
Story time kids...

Here's the skinny on the platforms I'm thinking about - every time I go hunting for anything hog/deer/elk and similar I reach for one of the Creedmoors (even though I've always talked about taking a Grendel or ARC). That said, I do anticipate taking either a Grendel or ARC out next time.

6mm ARC
18" Proof/JP/Radian Build
12.5" Faxon/2A Pistol Build

6.5mm Grendel
12.5" Faxon/Aero Upper
16" Faxon/Aero/Odin Build

6.5 Creedmoor
16" Q Fix Rifle/Proof Rifle
20" 2A/JP/Proof Build
26" Desert Tech SRS

I have a 204 Ruger barrel coming from Wilson Combat..

Would you:

1. Sell the Grendel stuff and use 6mm ARC in the long range/competition/hunting AR-15 role?
OR
2. Keep all of them, add a new upper build with the Wilson Combat 204, and toss a coin to decide which of the 12.5" uppers to sell?

Thank you in advance for your insights - I have a tender spot for the Grendel, but the ARC and Grendel are so close as to be redundant. Grendel positives are 1) access to inexpensive ammo (but I have 6 5.56 rifles that shoot cheap ammo also), and 2) I shoot a bullet in Grendel (123 ELD-M) that I could also shoot in Creedmoor, if desired.
Click to expand...
It is your amory. You choose.

Personally, I love 6.5 CM and I think 6mm ARC will come I to their own as an outstanding round. I think 6.5 G is a niche gun which never really achieved market share. That does make it a bad gun, but I would not invest more in Grendel.
 
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Tough decision, but I'll keep whatever one you decide you don't want.
Just PM me, and I'll send my FFL info.
Got plenty room. Just got me a old china cabinet to turn into a new 14 gun cabinet... and I'll have a couple slots left.
 
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Thought I'd update - I've sold all of my Grendel components in favor of 6mm ARC. The two cartridges are so similar that I decided it wasn't worth keeping both.

In short, my thoughts on the 6mm ARC vs Grendel:
  • Extends the range for supersonic flight quite a bit
  • Provides MUCH greater versatility in bullet weight/options
  • Components are more readily available in my area
  • Enables me to build a low-recoil competition rifle in 6mm using a non-wildcat round that I already load for (unproven, but will be interesting with a 26" barrel)
  • Kills everything up to mule deer as well as Grendel AND provides versatility for coyote, etc that the grendel doesn't
  • If I'm shooting 6.5 projectiles, it will be in a Creedmoor and so far I only shoot the 130-147 weight range, so no component overlap with Grendel
  • 6mm ARC shoots great with Varget and I have a bunch of Varget
  • If shooting cheap factory stuff, I'll be shooting 5.56, not Wolf 6.5 Grendel

If I only had one rifle, it would be a Grendel 100%. Already having other tools, the 6mm ARC fits perfectly between the others and I'm stoked to continue shooting the living crap out of it!

Hope this helps others in similar dilemmas. :)
 
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TheOE800 said:
Proof headspaces to JP bolts last I heard and those are proper “type 2” bolts.
Click to expand...
Proper? The bolts with the .124 recess are stronger, any engineer can explain why.in a few short minutes, .153" attachment VS .141", right only 8% but 8% is 8%. I've seen all of the manipulated drawings floating around for the last 16 years. What the guys drawing those don't understand is the extractors are the same, the pivot hole for the extractor is in a different location.
 
Last edited:
SMTGWKD said:
Story time kids...

Here's the skinny on the platforms I'm thinking about - every time I go hunting for anything hog/deer/elk and similar I reach for one of the Creedmoors (even though I've always talked about taking a Grendel or ARC). That said, I do anticipate taking either a Grendel or ARC out next time.

6mm ARC
18" Proof/JP/Radian Build
12.5" Faxon/2A Pistol Build

6.5mm Grendel
12.5" Faxon/Aero Upper
16" Faxon/Aero/Odin Build

6.5 Creedmoor
16" Q Fix Rifle/Proof Rifle
20" 2A/JP/Proof Build
26" Desert Tech SRS

I have a 204 Ruger barrel coming from Wilson Combat..

Would you:

1. Sell the Grendel stuff and use 6mm ARC in the long range/competition/hunting AR-15 role?
OR
2. Keep all of them, add a new upper build with the Wilson Combat 204, and toss a coin to decide which of the 12.5" uppers to sell?

Thank you in advance for your insights - I have a tender spot for the Grendel, but the ARC and Grendel are so close as to be redundant. Grendel positives are 1) access to inexpensive ammo (but I have 6 5.56 rifles that shoot cheap ammo also), and 2) I shoot a bullet in Grendel (123 ELD-M) that I could also shoot in Creedmoor, if desired.
Click to expand...

Grand I agree but what about the 224 Valkyrie, it’s pretty impressive for distance being what it is
 
I'll toss some more confusion into the mix if you're hunting: 300 HAMR.

IDK how it does as a PRS round tho

The one guy with the AR based rifle I saw, the round looks a lot like a 30-30

I'll see myself to the door

M
 
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mikeshaw2 said:
I'll toss some more confusion into the mix if you're hunting: 300 HAMR.

IDK how it does as a PRS round tho

The one guy with the AR based rifle I saw, the round looks a lot like a 30-30

I'll see myself to the door

M
Click to expand...
I shot a prs gas gun match and a guy in my squad had a Wilson combat 300hamr . our farthest target was 700 yds and he was holding his own very well .Then again a lot of times it's the Indian not the arrow .
 
SMTGWKD said:
Story time kids...

Here's the skinny on the platforms I'm thinking about - every time I go hunting for anything hog/deer/elk and similar I reach for one of the Creedmoors (even though I've always talked about taking a Grendel or ARC). That said, I do anticipate taking either a Grendel or ARC out next time.

6mm ARC
18" Proof/JP/Radian Build
12.5" Faxon/2A Pistol Build

6.5mm Grendel
12.5" Faxon/Aero Upper
16" Faxon/Aero/Odin Build

6.5 Creedmoor
16" Q Fix Rifle/Proof Rifle
20" 2A/JP/Proof Build
26" Desert Tech SRS

I have a 204 Ruger barrel coming from Wilson Combat..

Would you:

1. Sell the Grendel stuff and use 6mm ARC in the long range/competition/hunting AR-15 role?
OR
2. Keep all of them, add a new upper build with the Wilson Combat 204, and toss a coin to decide which of the 12.5" uppers to sell?

Thank you in advance for your insights - I have a tender spot for the Grendel, but the ARC and Grendel are so close as to be redundant. Grendel positives are 1) access to inexpensive ammo (but I have 6 5.56 rifles that shoot cheap ammo also), and 2) I shoot a bullet in Grendel (123 ELD-M) that I could also shoot in Creedmoor, if desired.
Click to expand...

Any tips on where to get cheap Grendel ammo besides Wolf?

P.S. Keep them all.
 
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