Range Report Whidden bullet pointing system???
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Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
I point all my competition rounds with Whidden's pointer. It doesn't turn night to day, but you can sharpen the BC up by a couple percent, and improve uniformity a little. It's a better alternative to trimming, which uniforms at the <span style="font-style: italic">expense</span> of BC. If it weren't such a quick and easy process I probably wouldn't do it.
It is not recommended to point bullets that will be used for hunting. Doing so will prevent the bullet from properly initiating expansion.
-Bryan
I point all my competition rounds with Whidden's pointer. It doesn't turn night to day, but you can sharpen the BC up by a couple percent, and improve uniformity a little. It's a better alternative to trimming, which uniforms at the <span style="font-style: italic">expense</span> of BC. If it weren't such a quick and easy process I probably wouldn't do it.
It is not recommended to point bullets that will be used for hunting. Doing so will prevent the bullet from properly initiating expansion.
-Bryan
Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
Bryan,
Thanks will get one I can use every % possible. also just ordered your book and CD.
Thanks Bill
Bryan,
Thanks will get one I can use every % possible. also just ordered your book and CD.
Thanks Bill
Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
I've used one since JW first intro'ed it.
Simply put - it works. No need to trim and point. Just point.
I shoot 308 in 1K comps and noticed at least 1.5 MOA gain @ 1K,
and with your BC's closer together you will see WAY less verticle...
Edit: In my GAP 308, I don't really see much gains up to 600. Past 600 on to 1K is where things start to shine.
Also just my .02....
I've used one since JW first intro'ed it.
Simply put - it works. No need to trim and point. Just point.
I shoot 308 in 1K comps and noticed at least 1.5 MOA gain @ 1K,
and with your BC's closer together you will see WAY less verticle...
Edit: In my GAP 308, I don't really see much gains up to 600. Past 600 on to 1K is where things start to shine.
Also just my .02....
Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
It's ok, but in my experience, because bullets vary in length, the points varied as well. I gave up trying to use it.
It's ok, but in my experience, because bullets vary in length, the points varied as well. I gave up trying to use it.
Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's ok, but in my experience, because bullets vary in length, the points varied as well. I gave up trying to use it. </div></div>
All bullets vary in length. If you wanted to take it to the enth degree you could measure a bullets bearing surface and sort them that way.
I know guys that do, and more power to them!
I shoot tac matches, so it's not worth it for me to sort by bearing surface. F class might be another story...
My point being is I don't think you even gave this a fair chance, because I know I'm not the only one who has noticed appreciable gains by pointing their bullets.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's ok, but in my experience, because bullets vary in length, the points varied as well. I gave up trying to use it. </div></div>
All bullets vary in length. If you wanted to take it to the enth degree you could measure a bullets bearing surface and sort them that way.
I know guys that do, and more power to them!
My point being is I don't think you even gave this a fair chance, because I know I'm not the only one who has noticed appreciable gains by pointing their bullets.
Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's ok, but in my experience, because bullets vary in length, the points varied as well. I gave up trying to use it.</div></div>
It's true that bullets vary in length. Since the pointing tool pushes the bullet up from the base, this can cause variation in how much the bullet is pointed.
However, most bullets don't vary <span style="font-style: italic">enough</span> in length to cause a problem. In the end, even though it's not a 'perfect' solution because of the OAL variation, there are very few cases where you would not improve the uniformity and BC by pointing.
In other words, if you have a box of bullets that has so much length variation that they won't point consistently, then the problem is the bullets. They're compromised 'out of the box' and the pointing tool is not to blame for their inconsistency.
-Bryan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's ok, but in my experience, because bullets vary in length, the points varied as well. I gave up trying to use it.</div></div>
It's true that bullets vary in length. Since the pointing tool pushes the bullet up from the base, this can cause variation in how much the bullet is pointed.
However, most bullets don't vary <span style="font-style: italic">enough</span> in length to cause a problem. In the end, even though it's not a 'perfect' solution because of the OAL variation, there are very few cases where you would not improve the uniformity and BC by pointing.
In other words, if you have a box of bullets that has so much length variation that they won't point consistently, then the problem is the bullets. They're compromised 'out of the box' and the pointing tool is not to blame for their inconsistency.
-Bryan
Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
At the recommendation of Bryan, I bought the Widden pointing die. I pointed some 6.5mm 140 grain Berger VLD's for my 260 Rem to test. With my standard load shooting the 2 different rounds side to side, the pointed bullets shot right at 1 MOA higher at 600 yards. The only difference between the 2 loads was the pointed bullet. Both were shot through the chrono and the velocities (2820 fps) were the same between the two. I will be loading up more to test again and plan to switch to them.
At the recommendation of Bryan, I bought the Widden pointing die. I pointed some 6.5mm 140 grain Berger VLD's for my 260 Rem to test. With my standard load shooting the 2 different rounds side to side, the pointed bullets shot right at 1 MOA higher at 600 yards. The only difference between the 2 loads was the pointed bullet. Both were shot through the chrono and the velocities (2820 fps) were the same between the two. I will be loading up more to test again and plan to switch to them.
Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
Palma ,
Would you like to sell yours if your not using it ??
Bill
Palma ,
Would you like to sell yours if your not using it ??
Bill
Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
i had the same results as you did then i started sorting my bullets. Short story it work my scores went up <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's ok, but in my experience, because bullets vary in length, the points varied as well. I gave up trying to use it. </div></div>
i had the same results as you did then i started sorting my bullets. Short story it work my scores went up <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's ok, but in my experience, because bullets vary in length, the points varied as well. I gave up trying to use it. </div></div>
Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
Bill if you want ill send you mine to try out if you like it get one. if not then your not out anything
Bill if you want ill send you mine to try out if you like it get one. if not then your not out anything
Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Stoffels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">also 1.5 moa at 1000 is a lot?? </div></div>
Its the difference between a low miss and the x ring on a B -27 target @ 1K...
If that was the only gain, then BFD right? BUT, what makes this shine is the CONSISTANCY of your impacts at longer ranges. Consistancy = accuracy correct? If all load factors are the same EXCEPT the BC on your bullet, you will see it in vertical dipersion at longer ranges. By just pointing your tips you are tightening up the spread on your BC. You really will see your vertical tighten up.
AND it is soooo simple. A caveman can do it. I do...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Stoffels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">also 1.5 moa at 1000 is a lot?? </div></div>
Its the difference between a low miss and the x ring on a B -27 target @ 1K...
If that was the only gain, then BFD right? BUT, what makes this shine is the CONSISTANCY of your impacts at longer ranges. Consistancy = accuracy correct? If all load factors are the same EXCEPT the BC on your bullet, you will see it in vertical dipersion at longer ranges. By just pointing your tips you are tightening up the spread on your BC. You really will see your vertical tighten up.
AND it is soooo simple. A caveman can do it. I do...
Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
Bill shooters like you are welcome to anything i have. Your rep. is amoung the best
Bill shooters like you are welcome to anything i have. Your rep. is amoung the best
Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
I have pointed 115gr. BN DTAC's. The only difference in the rounds was pointed vs. non-pointed. At 400 Yards the pointed bullets were consisitently 1/2 MOA higher than the non-pointed.
Semper Fi
I have pointed 115gr. BN DTAC's. The only difference in the rounds was pointed vs. non-pointed. At 400 Yards the pointed bullets were consisitently 1/2 MOA higher than the non-pointed.
Semper Fi
Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
Some observations...
A while back, I got the meplat trimming head for my Giraud trimmer. Life was simple (insert bullet or loaded round into the 'pencil sharpener' until trimming stops, remove, repeat with new round, etc.) Made groups a little 'rounder', no real noticeable difference in come-ups.
Somewhere along the line I happened to measure some 6mm S107MKs before trimming, noting the wildly varying OAL. Then measured them again after trimming. Still varied quite a bit. Not as much, but still more than I liked. Since this unit (Giraud) indexes off the ogive, I presume that the variation is showing up there as well... which is a bit disturbing.
Later I got the Whidden pointing system with the meplat uniformer. I really debated over the latter part, as I already had one (the Giraud) and most if not all the other ones I've seen index off the ogive like the Giraud, Tubb, Sinclair, Hoover, etc. The Whidden meplat trimmer is the only one that trims based on OAL, which seemed a little odd.
I must have misread the directions or something, because I started out meplat trimming then pointing. Got damn near perfect consistency though. Along the way someone pointed out that the directions recommended that trimming along with pointing wasn't really necessary. So... went back and tried just pointing. I got absolutely horrid results with the first few. Looking at the tips, I realized that this particular box of B105VLDs had big snaggle-toothed meplats (kind of like SMKs, only worse) and the variations were causing the pointing process to be inconsistent. I tried trimming them after the fact, but the tips were so bad that some would catch on the cutter blade and start to 'unfold' - not cool. So, I went back to trimming first, then pointing, and life was good.
Later I started in on a different batch of B105VLDs, and these had the nice small fairly uniform meplats that I normally expect from Berger. With these I could 'get away' with just pointing and not trimming.
From what I've seen so far, trimming before pointing helps make the pointing more consistent - if necessary. Trimming after pointing does also... but the amount removed is so miniscule as to be negligible.
YMMV,
Monte
Some observations...
A while back, I got the meplat trimming head for my Giraud trimmer. Life was simple (insert bullet or loaded round into the 'pencil sharpener' until trimming stops, remove, repeat with new round, etc.) Made groups a little 'rounder', no real noticeable difference in come-ups.
Somewhere along the line I happened to measure some 6mm S107MKs before trimming, noting the wildly varying OAL. Then measured them again after trimming. Still varied quite a bit. Not as much, but still more than I liked. Since this unit (Giraud) indexes off the ogive, I presume that the variation is showing up there as well... which is a bit disturbing.
Later I got the Whidden pointing system with the meplat uniformer. I really debated over the latter part, as I already had one (the Giraud) and most if not all the other ones I've seen index off the ogive like the Giraud, Tubb, Sinclair, Hoover, etc. The Whidden meplat trimmer is the only one that trims based on OAL, which seemed a little odd.
I must have misread the directions or something, because I started out meplat trimming then pointing. Got damn near perfect consistency though. Along the way someone pointed out that the directions recommended that trimming along with pointing wasn't really necessary. So... went back and tried just pointing. I got absolutely horrid results with the first few. Looking at the tips, I realized that this particular box of B105VLDs had big snaggle-toothed meplats (kind of like SMKs, only worse) and the variations were causing the pointing process to be inconsistent. I tried trimming them after the fact, but the tips were so bad that some would catch on the cutter blade and start to 'unfold' - not cool. So, I went back to trimming first, then pointing, and life was good.
Later I started in on a different batch of B105VLDs, and these had the nice small fairly uniform meplats that I normally expect from Berger. With these I could 'get away' with just pointing and not trimming.
From what I've seen so far, trimming before pointing helps make the pointing more consistent - if necessary. Trimming after pointing does also... but the amount removed is so miniscule as to be negligible.
YMMV,
Monte
Re: Whidden bullet pointing system???
Nesika,
Thanks for the note , same here .
I did buy one but thanks I appreciate the offer
Bill
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bill shooters like you are welcome to anything i have. Your rep. is amoung the best </div></div>
Nesika,
Thanks for the note , same here .
I did buy one but thanks I appreciate the offer
Bill
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bill shooters like you are welcome to anything i have. Your rep. is amoung the best </div></div>
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