Today I went to the range today and shot my AR that I put together with a 18in 1-8 twist white oak armament SPR barrel and the results were lackluster. I have it in a aero precision m4e1 enhanced upper with a timney trigger and meopta optika 5, so for the most part it should be a decent shooter. I tried 5 different hornady factory loads ranging from 53 to 68 grains and none of them grouped. Im just curious if anyone who has this barrel has a factory load that works in it. I shot it before today with fmj to break it in and followed white oaks suggestions. I'm looking for pointers before I call white oak.
- Thread starter Erickluc
- Start date
Check everything over for loose scope/mount/muzzle device/hand guard, etc…
Try Black Hills 77g OTM / mk262 mod 1. If it still shoots like shit with the BH stuff, call WOA.
Ive owned several WOA bbls over the years and all were shooters.
Also, barrels aren’t accurate, shooters are. Just saying…
Try Black Hills 77g OTM / mk262 mod 1. If it still shoots like shit with the BH stuff, call WOA.
Ive owned several WOA bbls over the years and all were shooters.
Also, barrels aren’t accurate, shooters are. Just saying…
Thermo fit the barrel?
I have several WOA & all shoot well, used LC 62 grain at one point but these days just shot my loads, even hornady 55’s group well out of mine
I have several WOA & all shoot well, used LC 62 grain at one point but these days just shot my loads, even hornady 55’s group well out of mine
What factory Hornady ammunition specifically? Personally, I've never had much luck with factory .223/5.56 Hornady from my WOA barrels but they've always been consistently good with IMI, Black Hills, Federal GMM, and Sig.
As others have mentioned, try the black hills or federal. WO barrels have always been consistent for me. I’ve always considered aero to be quality budget receivers, but they aren’t on the level of your barrel. Bedding and truing the upper may help but check everything else for proper torque first. I generally use BCM upper receivers for my small frames and they have been good to me. It could be a number of things rather than the barrel. Keep us updated with more details and I’m sure we can narrow it down.
I've also got an 18" WOA SPR barrel. My particular barrel had a large burr at the gas port that was catching copper for the first 400 rounds or so. You might check it if you have a borescope. Point being, you might give it several hundred rounds to settle down.
This is common. I would recommend running 55 grain down the barrel, at least 100 rounds to "hot lap" the cutting inconsistencies. The 18" rifle gas system is a little picky on ammo, and ultimately, you will get better results, as others mentioned, with 77 grain, or close to it. Black Hills and Federal is what we recommend on the Mk12, which is basically what you have.
White Oak has a good reputation with barrels, but keep in-mind, they are using someone else's blank, and they are doing the contour, chambering and gas port work. I lost track of which blank they are using. We have seen better results with other barrels, but WOA should give you under 1 MOA. Probably not 1/2 MOA. What has been your experience so far?
I completely agree. I ran cheap steel cased 55gr down mine until the burr was gone. Now that the burr is gone and my barrel has settled, I'm getting about 3/4 MOA with hand loads.
I don't think you can with Aero's enhanced upper, it is designed to give the barrel and handguard more support.
Between the five different loads of hornady the best was probably ~1.5 moa, I will have to keep my eye out for 77 grain stuff or something close to that. I went with woa because everyone says they are good barrels. If I can get under or close to moa with a factory load I would be ok with that but nothing was any good.
I’m in the same boat as you with a 24” WOA barrel (2 actually, as a friend built an identical gun)
Aero enhanced receiver, SOA arca rail, headspaced bolt from WOA.
Variety of loads offering 1.5+moa, whereas 2 other aero uppers with Satern liberty and green mountain tubes hammer sub 1.
Spoke to John at WOA and his assumption is error in assembly.
Sending the uppers out this week and hope to get some resolution as I was pretty stoked on these barrels.
Perhaps it’s the aero receiver?
I have WOA barrels in BCM, Wilson & WOA receivers shooting sub moa
I have WOA barrels in BCM, Wilson & WOA receivers shooting sub moa
Perhaps, but 2 other barrels hammer off of the same model receivers.
My sample of one 18" SPR shoots .7s with my 77 Nosler handloads, about the best I can shoot an AR off a bipod and rear bag.
Know what each was torqued to and how the fit was for the receiver extension on each? If not identical between them it can explain the different results.
Since we all love anecdotes will give mine. I have a WOA 18" mid-gas 1/7 SPR barrel in a BCM upper, it required thermo-fitting. It has been a largely* 3/4 MOA barrel with 55 gr handloads (from 30 years ago, not tailored for it) and 69 grain ADI factory ammo. With Hornady 75 grain TAP it did the same. I had an upcoming match that I felt the 75's would do better at but didn't have enough of the TAP, so ordered 300 rounds of Hornady Match 75 HPBT, which is claimed to be the same load less the cannelure. It was 1.5 MOA... I moved a Harrel's AR tuner brake to this rifle and even at a setting of "0" the added weight brought it back down to the acceptable 3/4 MOA. The ADI 69 grain showed the same result with no adjustment of the tuner.
I know this barrel can shoot and the assembly of the upper is correct. Sometimes you will find ammo a gun doesn't like. There clearly was something different besides the cannelure between those Hornady cartridges.
* Why do I say "largely"? Because it has produced the random act of precision that was far less than 3/4 MOA. Until this Hornady Match ammo it hadn't shot a group larger than that.
I have the exact same barrel, thermo fit in a Sons of Liberty Gun Works upper. Just took it out on its maiden voyage last friday - shot about 6 rounds of Hornady 5.56 FMJ to get the scope on target. I then shot AAC ammo (Palmetto State Armory's new ammo company) in different loads: 5.56 55gr w/VMAX bullets, 5.56 75 gr Hornady match, and their 77gr OTM match. All of the AAC ammo shot really well and the best group came from 77 OTM, which was about a .75 group. Total round count was about 70 rounds. Brought it home and did a quick cleaning and I expect the groups to tighten up after shooting some more. As of today, PSA has the 77 gr OTM in stock.
I have the same barrel and shoot it suppressed with an AEM5. Avg group size for me using S&B 77gr HPBT is about 0.9”. I’m sure I can do better. My one time best group was right under half inch with Hornady 68gr.
Honestly, I don’t remember fittament when I put the 20” Satern in the one gun 3 years ago.
I know it’s all from super small sample size, but would love for this white oak to shoot sub 1 consistently which I’m sure can be achieved.
Sending them back tomorrow and from some conversations with them, I’ve been happy with the CS thus far.
Now just getting em to shoot and be competitive!
I would not be opposed to going to a different upper but this a matching builder set in the white camo that they just came out with. I don't know how you can assemble them wrong, a buddy of mine has a 16' ballistic advantage in a enhanced upper and it shoots .5 moa all day long.
I have a whole upper at WOA right now to to a couple of problems. The gas port as others have said. There was a large burr at the port that tore off and the port looks like it has several thousand rounds through it. It has less than 75 rnds through it. When you push a patch through to clean you can feel a large amount of drag at the gas port. And the last time I was out it was splitting 1x fired Starline brass down the body. They wanted it back to inspect. But been over 2 weeks and nothing from starline about the brass. They have been silent.
The accuracy started off great. Then has been getting worse as I shot it. Even had bullets that never made it to the target. It started off as a new WOA barrel, 18" spr fluted 1-8tw mid gas. New Spike Tactical upper receiver. New Tool craft BCG with the carpenter bolt. Old low profile gas block. New gas tube from WOA. No name hand guard. 3" bag rider front rest. RRA A2 stock and buffer. Larue mbt-2 trigger. PSA lower. Vortex 6-20 viper with fine wire duplex.
They have had it for over a week and have not heard anything yet.
The accuracy started off great. Then has been getting worse as I shot it. Even had bullets that never made it to the target. It started off as a new WOA barrel, 18" spr fluted 1-8tw mid gas. New Spike Tactical upper receiver. New Tool craft BCG with the carpenter bolt. Old low profile gas block. New gas tube from WOA. No name hand guard. 3" bag rider front rest. RRA A2 stock and buffer. Larue mbt-2 trigger. PSA lower. Vortex 6-20 viper with fine wire duplex.
They have had it for over a week and have not heard anything yet.
I'm just stating the fact that I don't believe that the aero upper is solely causing the accuracy issues. I chose woa because they have a very good reputation especially compared to ballistic advantage.
...
I think he’s poking fun at a BA barrel being able to shoot half MOA all day long. I own a few BA premium barrels and have yet to see even a group remotely that small.
Not sure about what everyone here does or would recommend but i was told years ago before assembling a new AR barrel to ensure there isnt a burr left inside from drilling the gas port as it will damage the barrel if fired.
Might be the source of the issue your having.
Agree. They’ll hold sub MOA but 1/2 MOA all day long I’m calling BS.
I mean, statistically they would do it on accident once in a while. Like monkeys with typewriters.
I built a rifle a while back and I was so careful with my build, and I was so pissed when it wouldn’t shoot. I overlooked the fact that after such a careful build, I had simply screwed in the bipod stud, right into the bottom of the gb. Then I came on here looking for advice and was a little bit of a dick to the guys saying check this or that, because I knew I hadn’t done something that stupid. That crow was a little rough going down. After all that, Don’t Overlook The Little Things!
I'm going to respectfully disagree with this statement. There are absolutely inaccurate barrels. I have seen them. I have owned them. I have replaced them.
You're dealing with machining, and advanced machining techniques, which can have a serious impact on your hardware's capacity to be accurate.
Suffice to say, you need both: an accurate barrel and a shooter who knows what they're doing.
@bigjake83 - got any thoughts on what the OP can do or look for to mitigate internal/external factors that could be impacting his system's accuracy?
It’s all in the definition of the word “accurate”.
Accuracy is simply hitting what you’re aiming at. Precision potential is what we use to evaluate how well a barrel performs. So assuming you or whomever has access to a test fixture that takes the human out of the equation all together, you would use the test fixture to evaluate either the precision potential of the platform or the precision potential of the ammo.
But the act of aiming (knowing what holdover and wind compensating adjustments to make) and executing the shot AND hitting what you’re aimimg at is how accuracy is defined in the context of shooting.
So barrels (and by extension the entire system) can’t be considered accurate or not accurate until you have the human involved.
But nearly everyone, industry included, uses the word “accurate” to describe how consistently precise (or not) a barrel or given ammunition performs.
ETA: you can have the most precise system on earth but if you still cant hit what you’re aiming at, well you’re not accurate. Again, only entire system (shooter, platform, ammo) can be judged as accurate or not. Individual components of that system (platform, ammo) thus barrels, scopes, ammunition can be assesed for precision but not accuracy.
Im sure people will argue which is fine but i stand by my statement that you quoted.
Last edited:
I understand the semantics involved here, and I know what you were trying to relay, but it's just not the case. If you are Mark Wahlberg in "Shooter," in terms of skill, and have a barrel with a shitty chambering job, burrs, chadder, just won't shoot, etc...you're not going to hit what you're aiming at, right? What would you label the system in this example?
Because I would say that system was inaccurate, but I'd like to know what you would label it?
It may seem like semantics but it’s not. Having a platform AND ammunition both with good precision potential are prerequisites to accuracy. You’re only as strong as your weakest link, may it be barrel or shooter. The platform cannot aim itself-it requires a shooter for that (at least per our understanding of reality; democrats seem to think otherwise).
In your example, the platform is imprecise due to the defects in the barrel therefore the system as a whole has poor precision potential. So the likelihood of the system (shooter, platform, ammo) being accurate on any given shot attempt is very very low.
My White Oak 24" 22 Nosler is a 3/4 gun easily with a thermal scope. Looks like I'm one of the lucky ones.
My WOA Wilson 26" Varmint complete upper still shoots good after 6,200+ rounds if used with the right bullet and load.
It never did shoot 55s very well. It shines with 69, 75 and 80. It likes BLC2, Tac and 8208 XBR.
Testing the new RMR 75gr at 200 yards last week with Tac I did find one sweet spot with c to c group of .400".
My bench technique and setup needs practice and would guess with some further load development might be able to reduce the group some.
It never did shoot 55s very well. It shines with 69, 75 and 80. It likes BLC2, Tac and 8208 XBR.
Testing the new RMR 75gr at 200 yards last week with Tac I did find one sweet spot with c to c group of .400".
My bench technique and setup needs practice and would guess with some further load development might be able to reduce the group some.
I've got a 16" WOA SDMR I ordered directly from them that's got about 150-200 rounds through it and it is not accurate. Best group I've gotten out of it is maybe 7/8". Most are 1.5" or bigger and it's pissing me off. My CLE turned Bartlein 20" SDMR can do 1/2" groups with several hand loads and with 77 FGGM.
I'm going to hit it with JB's and clean the snot out of it and then check out the bore scope. At this point, I'm leaning towards just dumping it and replacing it with a Proof.
-ZA
I'm going to hit it with JB's and clean the snot out of it and then check out the bore scope. At this point, I'm leaning towards just dumping it and replacing it with a Proof.
-ZA
Have you tried retorquing the barrel?
I have a barrel from another vendor that was giving me trouble. I re-torqued it and now it is showing promise.
Try 77grain TMK. I went through this with 1/8 twist Wilson barrel. 1/8 needs a heavy bullet. Mine laser beams the 77 grain TMK, tosses M855 all over the paper.
M855 is ball ammo and has a terrible reputation for accuracy. Just about any decent bullet will shoot better.
No, it doesn't. The 10-shot group pictured below was fired from my Lothar Walther barreled AR-15 that has a 1:8" twist using Sierra 52 grain MatchKings. The group has an extreme spread of 0.58".
....
M855 Runs like a champ in 1/7 twist cmmg for me. I tried a lot of different ammo in the 1/8 twist Wilson Combat barrel. I thought something was wrong with the barrel. 77 grain TMK run in my 1/8 twist like a laser beam..... cheap to find out on the white oak barrel they guy is having trouble with
Maybe it is a SMK thingNo, it doesn't. The 10-shot group pictured below was fired from my Lothar Walther barreled AR-15 that has a 1:8" twist using Sierra 52 grain MatchKings. The group has an extreme spread of 0.58".
....
I have not. I’ll try that after I clean it and bore scope it. I’ll give it one more chance after that with factory match ammo and a couple of my best hand load. It it still won’t do any better than 1”, I’m going to replace it.
I’m sure I do. I know some of the MLOK rail screws were too close, so I filed them back for at least 1/8” clearance. I’ll double check clearances again on the gas block.
It’s a clone build of my 20” CLE Bartlein build except the WOA is a 16”. Same uppers (BCM), same handguard, same gas block, same flash hider, same bolt & carrier. I trued the receiver face on both, and loctited them both in along with the thermal fit of the BCM.
Unless it's a thermal fit, another thing to try is to lap the upper and bed the barrel, if you haven't already done so. I would probably contact WOA first before bedding at this point, though.
My 1st WOA barrel was a 16" and it did not do well for the first 100 rounds. I cleaned it and stripped all the copper out and it's been sub-moa since. I have no idea what reamer they use but it seems like their barrels favor the SMK and since it's a high power shop I guess that would make sense. This barrel shoots the IMI 77 really well too but not as good as my load with 8208 xbr.
Well… I cleaned the heck out of my WOA scrubbing it down with JB and Kroil on VFG pellets. Took bore scope photos before and after, and nothing re as llhh th looked out of place… the barrel looked very good actually.
Pulled off the SOLGW M89 hand guard, loosened the barrel nut and retightened it down super snug. Everything seemed good before and after.
Checked the gas block and it looked super tight at 12’oclock on the gas block and the underside of the rail. Took out the file and went to town on the handguard. The M89 has little pads/nipples sticking down from underneath the top of rail and I think it may have been touching the gas block. Got it all back together and could see at least 1/10” gap above the gas block now.
Pulled off the SOLGW M89 hand guard, loosened the barrel nut and retightened it down super snug. Everything seemed good before and after.
Checked the gas block and it looked super tight at 12’oclock on the gas block and the underside of the rail. Took out the file and went to town on the handguard. The M89 has little pads/nipples sticking down from underneath the top of rail and I think it may have been touching the gas block. Got it all back together and could see at least 1/10” gap above the gas block now.
Similar threads
