Everytime I go to the range with my build I find things I like, and things I think I could benefit from changing. I'm currently using a triggertech primary set pretty much as low as it will go. The more I shoot groups the more I would like something a bit lighter. I find myself pulling a lot of shots from it. I was looking at the triggertech diamond single stage originally. My problem I can see with a real light single stage is you have go be careful resting your finger on the trigger when your getting ready for the shot. This leads me to 2 stage. You can have most your weight in the first stage and have the 2nd stage very light. Seems like a safer and more consistent way to get a good pull. I've never really shot 2 stage triggers much. What have a lot of you guys come to prefer? Is the triggertech diamond 2 stage a good option? I'm mainly shooting groups off a bench and steel out at distance informally. No competitions or anything. Action is a bighorn origin.
- Thread starter Mauser48
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I've gone to 2 stage triggers as much as possible. Had the same issue you are discussing with light trigger weights on single stages triggers and brushing the trigger before I was fully ready to send it. Nothing terrible, just wasn't fully ready for the trigger to release. I find the 2 stage triggers provide a more consistent experience, even more so if you have multiple rifles and they are not all the exact same setup.
Of course the competitors will tell you how wrong this is and only an idiot would go 2 stage in lieu of a single stage trigger set below 10 ounces and that if you are worried about accidental discharge you dont' have a clue behind a rifle..... So I'm tagging in for that part of the conversation as well.
Of course the competitors will tell you how wrong this is and only an idiot would go 2 stage in lieu of a single stage trigger set below 10 ounces and that if you are worried about accidental discharge you dont' have a clue behind a rifle..... So I'm tagging in for that part of the conversation as well.
Let me also say practicing trigger technique with no matter what you're using is obviously important and I'm working on that. It seems I'm either doing a nice slow pull pressure until it surprises me which is can make me flinch a bit at times or I'm pulling a bit too hard on the trigger and noticeable pull a shot and ruin the group. I'm thinking a 2 stage will let me know when it's there and then light enough on the 2nd stage for a clean precise break. I'm just going through this in my head but reality is often different so I want to hear from everyone that's shot plenty of both.
I have significantly less feeling in my fingers than the average guy I guess. I have a hell of a time with triggers that are 1lb and under. My AT-X has about an additional 1lb second stage, and I've busted off more than a round or two trying to register the wall.
I'm also the guy that cuts his hands frequently and then wonders how he has dried blood on them.
I do prefer two stage triggers on all my ARs. I grew up with that, and it is muscle memory. Triggers like LaRue's MBT2S or Geissele's SSA/SSA-E are just heavy enough to be perfect. About 30 minutes ago I casually took up the skack and waited for a boar to poke his head out in the brush...the two stage take up is something that I will always love for mentally preparing myself to open up on game.
Conversely, I much prefer a single stage on my bolt guns. I like triggers in the 2.5 - 3lb range (again, my numb fingers), and am at no handicap to the guys running 1/2lb triggers. I have always felt that the single stage feels just a bit more crisp. YMMV.
I do not want to intermix the two. I put together a .308 AR for my dad and he insisted on a single stage trigger. Twice I cracked off a round trying to take up the first stage slack...fortunately both times I was on target and killed my hogs.
It is instinctive now. I grab up an AR with a pistol grip (including the AT-X) - two stage. I grab up something with a stock - single stage.
I'm also the guy that cuts his hands frequently and then wonders how he has dried blood on them.
I do prefer two stage triggers on all my ARs. I grew up with that, and it is muscle memory. Triggers like LaRue's MBT2S or Geissele's SSA/SSA-E are just heavy enough to be perfect. About 30 minutes ago I casually took up the skack and waited for a boar to poke his head out in the brush...the two stage take up is something that I will always love for mentally preparing myself to open up on game.
Conversely, I much prefer a single stage on my bolt guns. I like triggers in the 2.5 - 3lb range (again, my numb fingers), and am at no handicap to the guys running 1/2lb triggers. I have always felt that the single stage feels just a bit more crisp. YMMV.
I do not want to intermix the two. I put together a .308 AR for my dad and he insisted on a single stage trigger. Twice I cracked off a round trying to take up the first stage slack...fortunately both times I was on target and killed my hogs.
It is instinctive now. I grab up an AR with a pistol grip (including the AT-X) - two stage. I grab up something with a stock - single stage.
Military designers have used two-stage triggers in bolt guns for over a hundred years. If you're taking a bolt gun outside of gaming on terrain where you might stumble and drop or jar your rifle against something that could set it off (i.e., traversing talus, scree, or muddy rock slopes in the mountains) the safety and two-stage should give you reasonable assurance you don't have an ND and spook your game animal or worse, have people start looking for or shooting at you.
You can, as you note, have a reasonably light second stage with a distinct, conscious first-stage take-up.
I like my Geissele Super 700 trigger. I used a now-discontinued CG before that. I believe besides Trigger Tech, Huber, and Bix and Andy, Timney now has a two-stage. You can get a VERY good trigger in an Anschutz with Briley adaptor.
You can, as you note, have a reasonably light second stage with a distinct, conscious first-stage take-up.
I like my Geissele Super 700 trigger. I used a now-discontinued CG before that. I believe besides Trigger Tech, Huber, and Bix and Andy, Timney now has a two-stage. You can get a VERY good trigger in an Anschutz with Briley adaptor.
After running both single and two stage triggers in competition, I prefer two stage triggers personally
No matter the venue I have always preferred a two stage from the first day I ever laid a finger on one. For field I prefer the second stage to be at least 2 3/4 lb, but extremely crisp.
I grew up shooting 3P air rifles, which I believe requires the absolute best shot mechanics in the shooting world. It taught me the value of true trigger control. For me that is much more consistently achievable with a two stage trigger. I can’t think of a precision rifle I have owned in the last 15 or more years that didn’t have a tw stage trigger.
I run single stage in my fast shooting AR’s and 2 stage for all precision ARs and bolts that I can.
I also don’t like super light trigger pulls. I live and compete in the Rockies and super light triggers when it’s cold doesn’t work for me. My fingers can’t feel the trigger if it’s under 1# roughly when it’s cold.
I also don’t like super light trigger pulls. I live and compete in the Rockies and super light triggers when it’s cold doesn’t work for me. My fingers can’t feel the trigger if it’s under 1# roughly when it’s cold.
I run everything 2 stage and have that 2 stage triggertech you are talking about. It is fantastic. The only thing I would change is I prefer the edges of my trigger to be rounded like a M1 or 1903 trigger and the triggertech is square cut. Not a big deal.
You will like it. I like to marry up to the trigger and take the slack out and just sit there until I decide to shoot. I find I get a more consistent pull that way.
If you mess up on a single stage you can mess up on a two stage. Learn to not pull the thing until you’re ready and then learn to pull it right.
Triggertech 2 stage is the least preferred, by a wide margin, of any of the two stage triggers I have used.
So what do you recommend instead?
Xtreme still sells mod22 which is based on the old cg jackson. I’ve used 3-4 of them since 2007 or so. Absolutely fantastic and super reliable in dust/sand/wet conditions.
To OP, I shot NRA HP/CMP for long time before getting into sniper/field matches and PRS. Min trigger weight was 4.5 Lbs so everyone used 2 stage. I kept using 2 stage until impact actions came out and only switched because my fav trigger wouldn’t fit in their trigger hanger. I’d go back in a heartbeat if I could figure that out.
My first bolt action had a 2-stage. I switched to single. My last rifle is a 308 I got for wind practice. I put a Geissele Super 700 on it (set as a 2-stage), and I have to say that I prefer a good single-stage. I cycle noticeably quicker with my single-stage Bix than the Geissele..
I run two stage triggers on almost all my rifles and love the trigger tech diamonds, I find them superb.
Similar to Diggler, the feeling in my fingers, especially my right index, is shit. Two stage triggers help with that immensely. I can feel the wall and then know that she's about to go with the next level of pressure. Single stage are fine, but they have to be over 2.5 pounds for me to be able to rest my finger on them without inadvertantly letting one fly here and there. I have a 30-06 bolt gun that has a 1.5# single stage that Ive killed a lot of critters with. At this point just about the time I really feel that I'm on the trigger, its sending one. As much as I love that gun, I prefer having that wall of the second stage.
I love the 2 stage trigger in my SSG-3000 planning a howa build next because they come with a 2 stage adjustable.
In semi autos the larue is the way to go for price/value.
In semi autos the larue is the way to go for price/value.
I think most often its the opposite....lighter first stage with a big more in the second. No?
This seems to be reflected in some manf info, e.g.
And to a lesser extent:
Often that’s how people set it up “for safety” lol but I too like a heavier first and light second, at least it’s how I set up my anschutz so it sorta glides over when I’m ready instead of bumping over.
Every two stage trigger have tried, seen, or had described to me by some spectacular gun smiths has been set with at most 50% of the desired total on the first stage, you then hit the wall and the remaining weight is applied. Just had my Anschutz 1727f trigger set by the USA team at 8 oz total split 2/6.
Agreed. My favorite 2 stage is probably the Sako TRG trigger, it is fantastic. Also the AI, Cadex, Geissele, and Bixn Andy are all excellent. Personally I don’t care for the Timney and haven’t ever touched the Huber, TT, or CG. I’d really like to try the KRG at some point.
I much prefer 2 stages.
Having 2 independent stages really helps to interface with the trigger, IMO.
Having 2 independent stages really helps to interface with the trigger, IMO.
I love my BnAs. Should be noted that other than some air rifles, TT, and various production 2 stage triggers ( mostly production semi auto type rifles triggers) the BnA is what I have experience w. No Huber, Tubb etc.
2-stage with a flat blade is my pick for anything shooting precision. I'm just plain more consistent that way.
I run 2-stages, but I'm not sure my reasoning is anything other than inadequate training. Like some others have mentioned, when I had a light-ish single stage, occasionally I'd send a round I hadn't meant to when applying rearward pressure with my firing hand. That's not really the trigger's fault though, that's me not separating my trigger finger from the other fingers (ergonomically it makes sense that all fingers want to go together, but this can be trained away). I'll also note that if OP is pulling shots due to the weight of a TT Primary at its lowest setting, s/he needs to work on a 90-degree trigger pull with slow, steady pressure; you should be able to operate a 1.5-2 lb trigger consistently. This sounds like training is needed, not a lighter trigger.
Things I like about my 2-stages:
- Taking up the first stage is basically part of my mental pre-shot process now, it's kinda like "dropping in" as I truly prepare to take the shot. I think this could be replaced with a different routine if I went to a single-stage.
- I feel like it's a little more compatible with gloves in cold weather, since if I bump the trigger early the gun doesn't fire.
- If I bump the trigger early for any other reason, the gun doesn't fire. This too is really a training gap in some ways...but I'm an optimization engineer, and designing systems to make them more resilient to human errors is a much more reliable way to improve results than "train the humans better." The data on this are awfully consistent. Still, I could go to a very light single-stage if I trained to keep my finger out of the trigger guard until later in the process, and got a lot of dry-fire reps making intentional light contact with the trigger shoe without setting off the gun.
Downsides of the 2-stages:
- I do think they reinforce a bit more laxness around trigger control, at least as far as initial contact goes.
- They take more time to fire, even if it's fractions of a second; there may come a time when I go back to a single-stage for this reason, at least on my comp setups. I'll probably keep the 2-stage on any hunting rig I run.
- If I happen to get on a single-stage trigger, for example when checking out someone else's rifle or using a stage gun, I'm really not ready for, and get surprised by, the first trigger press breaking when I'm automatically "taking up the slack." There is no slack lol.
Things I like about my 2-stages:
- Taking up the first stage is basically part of my mental pre-shot process now, it's kinda like "dropping in" as I truly prepare to take the shot. I think this could be replaced with a different routine if I went to a single-stage.
- I feel like it's a little more compatible with gloves in cold weather, since if I bump the trigger early the gun doesn't fire.
- If I bump the trigger early for any other reason, the gun doesn't fire. This too is really a training gap in some ways...but I'm an optimization engineer, and designing systems to make them more resilient to human errors is a much more reliable way to improve results than "train the humans better." The data on this are awfully consistent. Still, I could go to a very light single-stage if I trained to keep my finger out of the trigger guard until later in the process, and got a lot of dry-fire reps making intentional light contact with the trigger shoe without setting off the gun.
Downsides of the 2-stages:
- I do think they reinforce a bit more laxness around trigger control, at least as far as initial contact goes.
- They take more time to fire, even if it's fractions of a second; there may come a time when I go back to a single-stage for this reason, at least on my comp setups. I'll probably keep the 2-stage on any hunting rig I run.
- If I happen to get on a single-stage trigger, for example when checking out someone else's rifle or using a stage gun, I'm really not ready for, and get surprised by, the first trigger press breaking when I'm automatically "taking up the slack." There is no slack lol.
Best suggestion to try and it’s free. Take your diamond single stage and turn it up till you get some feel in the pad of your trigger. Hell turn it all the way up and come lighter from there. To light is not for a lot of guys including myself. Put some feel back in your trigger finger with a great trigger like the diamond and you’ll feel way better with your trigger. Sometimes you just need some feel. It will also help you create better trigger pull and not slap the trigger. Try it!
Which of the two-stage top dogs like TriggerTech, Tubb, B&A, etc are known for being the most reliable? Also do people who use the TT two-stage find the first stage travel is too short? I think I saw someone say it's 1/16" which sounds pretty short.
I use them on 6 rifles right now. I don’t find it too short but like was mentioned above there is learning that should take place on ANY trigger. I know that I touch the trigger blade and it moves a short distance and I feel more resitance and that is where I hold until ready to send it ( generally about 1/2-1 second) then I break the shot. How far it is, no idea, to me it is by habit irrelevant as I feel the weight delta even on my 6-12oz triggers.
No doubt I have more practice to do. Shooting groups to the rifles full potential over and over is not easy. I will shoot it a bit more before I decide if I want another trigger. I'm also not the most comfortable with the stock. Lop is a bit short among a few other things. Might try a chassis.
Try my suggestion, feel the press on the pad of your finger. you can always go back
Nope. Single stage is what I like and use. I press the trigger and it goes boom. I don't need take up or stages.
Different Strokes for Different Folks.
I thought the AT-X competition trigger was light..other day gentleman let us shoot is rifle and I think the trigger was 8oz he said.
HO
LEE
FUCK
Sneezing on that thing set it off. I did get an X at 1k, but yah...DO NOT WANT
After shooting a sub-2lb 1911 and sub 3 CZ, you single stage bastards are nuts below 1lb!
(and i think my start in DA pistols biases me to two-stage triggers--its what I was familiar with)
I thought the AT-X competition trigger was light..other day gentleman let us shoot is rifle and I think the trigger was 8oz he said.
HO
LEE
FUCK
Sneezing on that thing set it off. I did get an X at 1k, but yah...DO NOT WANT
After shooting a sub-2lb 1911 and sub 3 CZ, you single stage bastards are nuts below 1lb!
(and i think my start in DA pistols biases me to two-stage triggers--its what I was familiar with)
I would recommend taking some fundamental classes and working on your trigger press before you start changing gear based on bad habits.
I agree with the above you need to become comfortable with working the action and making a clean press of the trigger.
The most surprised I've ever been by a rifle was a .375 CT with a 4 oz trigger. Hot damn.
Because of things like this, I like to dry fire first to see what Im getting into.
Unless your current trigger is set to an absurd weight, it isn't the problem.
When I started shooting again back in 2017 my first rifles were Howa 1500s, so two stage (with 1lb spring kits).
(in Australia Howa is very popular as we can buy a barrelled action for say $600 and then choose a stock or chassis as desired).
A few years back I started some "custom" builds on Terminus Zeus actions and went with TT Diamond single stage triggers.
When TriggerTech announced the two stage I lined up and bought a couple - hated them and went straight back to the TT Diamond singles.
I like a two stage for the shot process of "find the target-take up first stage-confirm solid on target-send" and still enjoy the Howa's as my down and dirty 308/223/Creeds... BUT, once you get used to a light single stage trigger that crisp break can't be beat.
Just my 2cents as usual.
(in Australia Howa is very popular as we can buy a barrelled action for say $600 and then choose a stock or chassis as desired).
A few years back I started some "custom" builds on Terminus Zeus actions and went with TT Diamond single stage triggers.
When TriggerTech announced the two stage I lined up and bought a couple - hated them and went straight back to the TT Diamond singles.
I like a two stage for the shot process of "find the target-take up first stage-confirm solid on target-send" and still enjoy the Howa's as my down and dirty 308/223/Creeds... BUT, once you get used to a light single stage trigger that crisp break can't be beat.
Just my 2cents as usual.
Triggers are a matter of personal preference. I prefer 2 stage for semi's, single stage for bolt guns.
Try dry firing to address your issues. Dry fire 20 times being just as deliberate as live fire. Then, shoot a group, dry firing once before each round.
Have a friend blind load a magazine with spent cases/dummies and live rounds. Do this before and after the dry fire exercise above. I think you will be surprised.
I learned this exercise at a class and it helped a lot, best of luck.
Try dry firing to address your issues. Dry fire 20 times being just as deliberate as live fire. Then, shoot a group, dry firing once before each round.
Have a friend blind load a magazine with spent cases/dummies and live rounds. Do this before and after the dry fire exercise above. I think you will be surprised.
I learned this exercise at a class and it helped a lot, best of luck.
If you're going to get a new trigger anyway, just get a Bix n Andy 2 stage ProX. You can adjust the 1st stage out completely & run it as a single stage if you want.
I have the Bix 2 stage ProX on my CDG & it's a fantastic trigger. I have it set up as a 2 stage with a light but reasonable 1st stage & a very light 2nd stage.
Once you've tried a high quality two stage, you won't go back to single. You won't miss having to get on target, get setup with your wind call, breathing & etc then, have to push your focus to some dodgy light single stage which you have to concentrate on not setting off before you're ready.
Single stage triggers are for dedicated target rifles & the inexperienced hunter or cull shooter.
If you're going to get a new trigger anyway, just get a Bix n Andy 2 stage ProX. You can adjust the 1st stage out completely & run it as a single stage if you want.
I have the Bix 2 stage ProX on my CDG & it's a fantastic trigger. I have it set up as a 2 stage with a light but reasonable 1st stage & a very light 2nd stage.
Once you've tried a high quality two stage, you won't go back to single. You won't miss having to get on target, get setup with your wind call, breathing & etc then, have to push your focus to some dodgy light single stage which you have to concentrate on not setting off before you're ready.
Single stage triggers are for dedicated target rifles & the inexperienced hunter or cull shooter.
There's zero difference in a single stage and the second stage of a two stage trigger if the second stage weight is set the same as the single stage.
If you have to worry about setting off a single stage, you're using a two stage as a crutch for poor trigger control.
All i know is you people with your sub 16oz pulls are insane.
Double or Single.
Perhaps my furious masturbation just gives me strong hands.
Double or Single.
Perhaps my furious masturbation just gives me strong hands.
Depends. Are you putting it to sleep first for the excitement of the unknown? That’s different than normal insensitivity!
Your premise sounds reasonable but is not true when put into real world scenarios (not competition).
As many others, I grew up with many shooting opportunities and always single stage triggers. If I were lacking in safety awareness there was always a stern backhand to bring me to full alertness. Cold weather, gloves, or anything that would cause stress can make the safest of us experience unwanted results.
My trigger discipline is quite good and I assure you that I prefer a 2 stage trigger for all my uses. A single stage trigger set below a pound is problematic in my experience for any gun not dedicated to bench use.
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Not for the kind of shooting I mostly do.
Shooting cull animals at night with very little time to get the job done is much harder with a light single stage. Two stage allows me to get my finger settled with a much lower risk of inadvertent shots.
When the 2nd stage is light, what's the difference if the 1st stage is heavier?
Since the 1st stage is already pulled & it's only the 2nd stage pressure to go, what's the real world difference anyhow?
Nothing at all in my experience. I've own rifles with single stage triggers & find them wanting when time constraints are part of the shot.
I have nothing against single stage triggers other than what I've mentioned above.
My 30 30 Win lever rifle is single stage & it's just fine. I've honed the sear so it breaks very cleanly but it is still a heavy trigger none the less but, for it's intended purpose, the trigger is fine & I have no problem with it.
There's no harm in using whatever works best for the application & for what I do, 2 stage are definitely more intuitive to work with.
I've found that it's really only target shooters or less experienced hunters or cullers that bother with single stage &, there's plenty of F Class shooters I know who use 2 stage triggers very successfully so, I'm not sure that single stage are at all necessary or advantageous in any way.
