Rifle Scopes Why arent Steiner Scopes more popular?

[BiggBeans]

Kind of curious why Steiner Rifle scopes are not more popular? Dont seem to see much people running them. Why is it? Are they not good for the price? Lack of features? What is it? Mostly referring to their top end scope the M7xi

View attachment 7737870

 

[JMGlasgow]

I think there are better options in their price range. The M5Xi at $3200 was priced above its tier level.

The M7Xi is $3700. For a few more dollars you can have a Zero Compromise Optic. I know which one I would pick, and I own and like my P4Xi and T5Xi.

 

[Average guy]

I had a T5XI. It was repeatable and had good ergonomics. My complaint was CA that I couldn’t tune out. I switched to a gen 2 Razor and other than the weight penalty it’s far better to me.

 

[Gil P.]

I think it's reticle selection. They've never tried to cater to competition shooters like other primarily military focused brands.

Finnaccuracy needs to sell Steiner some kind of MSR tree reticle.

 

[srt-4_uk]

If you shop around, either can be had for under $2600. I had both and they were great optically. Agree about the reticle selection. Burris needs to talk them into putting the SCR2 in there.

 

[Averageman]

I think their binoculars are awesome.

 

[Long Range 338]

It might be a marketing issue. I've got a couple of the M7s and M5s and they are a solid scope. The M7 turrets are robust and repeatable, the downside is the IQ variation from one scope to another. Steiner gets blasted for CA but I don't really see it and the color and contrast are quite good to my eyes. Also the lack of competition style reticles in the M Series leads me to think they are marketing more toward the Military customers with these specific scopes. The T series is geared more towards competition but the competition is pretty solid in that particular price range as well.

 

[The King]

Got to fuck with the IFS 4-28 this week. It was very satisfactory for $4000.

For $7000 it can kiss my ass.

 

[Basher]

Got to fuck with the IFS 4-28 this week. It was very satisfactory for $4000.

For $7000 it can kiss my ass.

I’d hope it would do more to your ass than just kiss it, for $7,000!

I dig the MSR and MSR2 but I find that, for the money, other scopes exist that meet my needs better, or exceed them.

I’ve come real close a few times to buying an older Military 4-16x though, just never seem to have the play funds when they pop up.

 

[Bakwa]

Right now I have many Steiner's. P4Xi, T5Xi, older Predator, etc...
For what I paid for mine, they were an outstanding deal. Their suggested retail prices are typically far above what they're worth though. You have to find them used or on close out deals.
That said, it's going to take noticeably superior optics to convince me to move any of mine. So if you see any of my Steiner's in the PX, just know that I'm upgrading to a ZCO, S&B, Swaro, etc....

Cheers

 

[TacticalPlinker]

I think it's reticle selection. They've never tried to cater to competition shooters like other primarily military focused brands.

Finnaccuracy needs to sell Steiner some kind of MSR tree reticle.

Definitely. The MSR(2) is an awesome military reticle for dialing on a bolt, but mounted on a semiautomatic (SASS) rig while trying to engage multiple threats and the need for a tree becomes obvious.

Its not like there isn't any room below the main horizontal line. IMO - a NF Mil-XT tree would fit nicely down there...

 

[Doctorwho1138]

I had the M5 with the MSR reticle. Great scope and the only reason I sold was to get a Christmas tree reticle. The turrets were great, tracked perfectly, and had good glass. I would buy another if they offered one in a reticle I liked and if the price was right.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

Currently all scopes can come with either MSR2 or Tremor3. Some of the T series and the new Predator Series have other options. The MSRP is way too high but Steiner leaves some room for haggling in the dealer margin. For me, the lifetime warranty is worth every penny. I don't care how amazing a scope is if I have to worry about breaking it down the line.

I also firmly believe that the reason more people don't own them is that steiner doesn't really have much of a presence in the US market outside of LEO/MIL.

 

[stefan73]

I like the M8Xi, the glass to me is very nice. The illumination is weak sauce and not daylight bright but it has a forgiving eye box.
Is it worth the MSRP for it? No, not with that weak illumination. Is it worth the price "I" paid for it? Time will tell, but I do like it a lot.

 

[The King]

Currently all scopes can come with either MSR2 or Tremor3. Some of the T series and the new Predator Series have other options. The MSRP is way too high but Steiner leaves some room for haggling in the dealer margin. For me, the lifetime warranty is worth every penny. I don't care how amazing a scope is if I have to worry about breaking it down the line.

I also firmly believe that the reason more people don't own them is that steiner doesn't really have much of a presence in the US market outside of LEO/MIL.

I think the Tremor reticles are sorta meh. I sold mine just recently.

The trend went from "fuck whats downrange, lets get some reticle action" back towards a tree thats a little more reasonable in the last few years.

I swear to god some of these reticles are like a porno where the credits roll for the whole movie and you can see a quarter inch of ass through them right next to the text that says "Starring The King as Fire Extinguisher Frank"

 

[kthomas]

I have one of the first M5's to make it into the country.

Great scope, it currently sits on the wife's rifle. I've moved to Khales due to the reticle options, but quality wise the Steiner is no slouch.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

I loved my M8Xi before I switched to the new M7Xi 2.9-20x50. I also have never found a need for the Tremor reticle, I always go with the MSR2, but I also don't shoot past 1200 yards.

 

[alfmoonspace]

M5 MSR2 is one of my favorites.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

I loved mine too, but had the opportunity to trade it for a Christensen Arms Ridgeline Ti in 300 PRC and couldn't pass it up.

 

[srt-4_uk]

The M5 second rev indicator is the best in the business

 

[D_TROS]

Steiner really has 2 different scopes. The M series that is made in Gemany and the T series that is made in Greely CO

T- Series: had some rough start with some turret issues and releasing on schedule. They fixed the turrets (make sure your turret has a triangle on it) and you should be gtg. Tracking is solid. I used a T5 5-25 in the 2014 PRS finale and finished around 20th. It wasnt the scopes fault. The glass gets the biggest complaint. It does suffer from CA but only on high power and only if u look for it. Sucks, once you start looking you see it all over the place lol. Very usable tho. I still have the 3-18 as a hunting scope and love its compact size and solid tracking. This scope is legit IMHO.

M-series: the older M5 got some static for having " mushy" turrets. I loved those turrets and are still my fav all time. The glass was a step under S&B but par with USO and NF. BUT mechanically were and still are one of the most robust designs Ive ever used. I would have no problem throwing on a M5 and shooting in any match in the country.

The M7 is Germanys all new scope and it is by far their best. I do wish it was priced around 3200$ but I have seen several sell around 2600. Under $3k mark it would easily be the best option available. I love everything about it but the retc. The MSR2 is what I have in mine and its way better than the MSR but I am a huge SCR2 fan. The mechanics so far have been rock solid and I really like the low pro turret but I do wish the spacing was a bit wider. As to the glass, side by side with my TT, it is as clear up to about 18x at which pt it darkens a bit while the TT stays bright the whole way up to 25. I sold my last S&B after getting this scope.

I only put 2 scopes above this one and its not close. TT and ZCO.


GL!
DT

 

[Long Range 338]

View attachment 7738200


Steiner really has 2 different scopes. The M series that is made in Gemany and the T series that is made in Greely CO

T- Series: had some rough start with some turret issues and releasing on schedule. They fixed the turrets (make sure your turret has a triangle on it) and you should be gtg. Tracking is solid. I used a T5 5-25 in the 2014 PRS finale and finished around 20th. It wasnt the scopes fault. The glass gets the biggest complaint. It does suffer from CA but only on high power and only if u look for it. Sucks, once you start looking you see it all over the place lol. Very usable tho. I still have the 3-18 as a hunting scope and love its compact size and solid tracking. This scope is legit IMHO.

M-series: the older M5 got some static for having " mushy" turrets. I loved those turrets and are still my fav all time. The glass was a step under S&B but par with USO and NF. BUT mechanically were and still are one of the most robust designs Ive ever used. I would have no problem throwing on a M5 and shooting in any match in the country.

The M7 is Germanys all new scope and it is by far their best. I do wish it was priced around 3200$ but I have seen several sell around 2600. Under $3k mark it would easily be the best option available. I love everything about it but the retc. The MSR2 is what I have in mine and its way better than the MSR but I am a huge SCR2 fan. The mechanics so far have been rock solid and I really like the low pro turret but I do wish the spacing was a bit wider. As to the glass, side by side with my TT, it is as clear up to about 18x at which pt it darkens a bit while the TT stays bright the whole way up to 25. I sold my last S&B after getting this scope.

I only put 2 scopes above this one and its not close. TT and ZCO.


GL!
DT

I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the Steiner M and T series. The MSR2 is the reason to own the Steiner. I would say that I prefer the new Schmidt with the DTII+ turrets (because of the glass and I like the MTC turret) over the M7 but I can say more assuredly that I will add another Steiner M7 in the future.

 

[BCP]

They made sense when the T5xi was 1200-1500 and the P4xi was selling under a grand. Current prices aren't worth it.

 

[2muchcowbell]

My experience with Steiner is, basically: they're great scopes when they're on sale. The advertised retail prices push them out of their respective $/performance brackets. The T5xi demo I bought in 2018 has been a fantastic scope for the money I paid for it; if I had to do it over again, I'd probably go with something else. At the time, it was a pretty good buy for $1600.

I really want a Steiner M7xi, but I refuse to pay full price for it.

 

[Tortuga]

The M7 was in the running the last time I was shopping, but price was a detractor. I was able to find a Kahles K525i here in the Hide for $200 less than my .mil price for the M7.

 

[Gil P.]

For me, the only downside is the iq degradation after about 18x-20x.

Up until that point the viewing experience is excellent.

The only other alpha scope I know of that has a high mag ratio in a short scope is the March ,and I've yet to look through one.

The low light performance is also very good. It resolved a little better than my Minox with both scopes at 25x at dusk.

 

[VegasKyle]

I just picked up a M5Xi 3-15 for my SCAR 20s. Really excited for it to arrive and finally see what all the hype is about. I was dead set on the Tremor 3 for this rifle so that limited the options and the Steiner came up at an attractive price.

S&B 5-20 US is still the grail and I think a 4-16x42 ATACR isn’t far behind but the price on the Steiner was less than even the best deal I’ve seen on a used ATACR T3 and < 1/2 of a Schmidt.

Hopefully the Steiner is close optically and just as robust. It gives up a little in length and the lack of capped and locking turrets is the only obvious drawback at this point.

 

[Twinsen]

Burris scopes at S&B prices.

 

[JMGlasgow]

You clearly know nothing about Steiner if you believe that.

 

[Twinsen]

Honestly, you're right. I shouldn't be so harsh to Burris.

 

[VegasKyle]

Burris scopes at S&B prices.

Distributor =/= Manufacturer

 

[D_TROS]

Distributor =/= Manufacturer

Kind of... The T-series is made in the same building as the XTR3. Ive ben there. and the 2 scopes have similarities. I believe the XTR3 to be a better scope than the T-series.

The M series comes from Germany and is its own beast. No similarities of any kind. Much superior to either the T or anything Burris offers...right now.


Regards
DT

 

[Twinsen]

But they also do the service and manufacturing, right? Because they have the same address and phone number and employees.

See because I bought a Burris T5Xi and it was gun show chinese optic quality and had to send it to Burris several times for them to lie to me and tell me they fixed it and remanufactured it and such, but it retained the exact same faults through the entire process because it's LITERALLY A BURRIS.

 

[BiggBeans]

But they also do the service and manufacturing, right? Because they have the same address and phone number and employees.

See because I bought a Burris T5Xi and it was gun show chinese optic quality and had to send it to Burris several times for them to lie to me and tell me they fixed it and remanufactured it and such, but it retained the exact same faults through the entire process because it's LITERALLY A BURRIS.

well i was referring to the M7Xi line in my OP. not the T5xi. Thats what im asking about. i dont care so much about the t5xi.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

If anyone is interested in getting a M7Xi and wants to pay reasonable prices, shoot me a PM. My regular SH discount is around 25% off MSRP depending on which scope you fancy.

 

[VegasKyle]

But they also do the service and manufacturing, right? Because they have the same address and phone number and employees.

See because I bought a Burris T5Xi and it was gun show chinese optic quality and had to send it to Burris several times for them to lie to me and tell me they fixed it and remanufactured it and such, but it retained the exact same faults through the entire process because it's LITERALLY A BURRIS.

Your initial comment about S&B pricing led me to believe you were talking about the M series like pretty much everyone else in the thread.

The T and P series aren’t anywhere near S&B pricing. If they are a good value proposition or not is something you have to decide for yourself.

 

[koshkin]

Given how well the XTR3 scopes have been doing, I would expect the T-series to be due for a re-design in the not too distant future.

I tested a T5Xi 3-15x50 a while back and liked it quite a lot. SCR reticle was a good match for the scope.

With the M-series, the new M7Xi is a very competent design that is really held back by the reticle selection. I like the MSR/MSR2, but they need a normal tree reticle. Given that they already have the SCR2 in their backpocket, I can't figure out for the life of me why they would not put it into the M7Xi. Aside from the fact that I think Tremor3 is an abomination, with the SCR2 they also would not have to pay Horus' exorbitant licensing fees.

At this stage in the game, I think Steiner and Leica are the only high end scope companies that are refusing to get a semi-normal tree reticle into their product line. Leica has the PRB reticle that it is almost as insane as Tremor3 (PRB reticle does have a strong advantage over the Tremor designs in that it is a little thinner and therefore easier to ignore), but Steiner for some reason focuses on Tremor3. I have a 2.9-20x50 heading my way and they only had it with the Tremor3. I do not know what Steiner marketing people are thinking. It is kinda like releasing a scope into the civilian market with a message saying "we only care about military sales".

Even Nightforce came out with Mil-XT after years of resisting the market. Same for S&B and their GR2ID reticle that I happen to like quite a bit.

Pretty much everyone else has a normal tree reticle of some sort even when they also offer Horus designs alongside it.

If you want to get an idea of the price premium due to using a Horus reticle, for manufacturers that offer both home grown designs and Horus, the price difference is in the $400-$500 range.

Given that, if Steiner were to put something along the lines of SCR2 into the M7Xi scopes, it would likely get the 2.9-20x50 into the $3300 MAP range and 4-28x56 into the $3600 MAP range. That would likely make them very competitive.

ILya

 

[plong]

Why aren't Steiner Scopes more popular?​

Because T5X... that's why... (fight me... saying that as a very early adopter...)
I say that as one who has a pair of M7s, one on each of my AIs... and one who's a big fan of FinAccuracy's MSR2...

 

[Gil P.]

Why aren't Steiner Scopes more popular?​

Because T5X... that's why... (fight me... saying that as a very early adopter...)
I say that as one who has a pair of M7s, one on each of my AIs... and one who's a big fan of FinAccuracy's MSR2...

How does the image quality compare between your two M7s?

 

[plong]

How does the image quality compare between your two M7s?

Both are excellent; no discernable difference between the two to my eyes. Now, for context, I'm saying that as one who didn't pay anything close to MSRP for either one (at anything close to that there are, clearly, better options...) that being said, if you do the work and shop around, I don't think you can find a better overall option for what I paid for mine (again... assuming the reticle works for your use case...) YMMV, of course...

 

[rothgyr]

100% marketing. If I was an established optics company launching a premium scope (referring to the M series, at least), the cost of marketing with SHOT, sponsoring shooters, placing ads, etc. and trying to gobble up some of the common market share (most common people thinking that a Viper PST II is a huge purchase for optics and a dream optic is either a Razor HD II or MK5) vs the cost of having one or two liasons for government contracts...

Why sell a $2900 scope to the to individuals who aren't interested in anything but $1000/$2000 Vortex and Leupold scopes, when you could sell a $4200 scope by the hundreds on contract to governments?

I do think they're a bit overpriced, but I think the same for USO Foundation and Nightforce, but all three can be had at discounted prices if you're LEO/Military. If I have $3800 of liquid cash to spend on optics, I'm not buying a USO Foundation, Nightforce 7-35, S&B PM II, or M7Xi. I'm buying a ZCO without question.

Most things marketed to the military end up with a high price. Cadex, AI, TRG, M7Xi, PRI mk12 parts, CRYE, etc. Usually get what you pay for, but you _might_ be paying an extra few bucks for brand.

The other thing is reticles, like Ilya said. Personally, the more I use my Tremor3 in my M7Xi, the more I like it. Tremor3 for troop line stages is perfect for me. But if they would offer a JVCR, PR2, MIL-XT, or even the SCR2 in the M7Xi, it would be the shiz.

 

[chevy_man]

1. No marketing. You have to flaunt your warranty like vortex, or claim you'll never need it like Nightforce.

2. Cost. There's too many other good scopes out without the mill pricing mark-up.

3. Reticles and the "well fuck you if you don't like it" mentality.

To be fair, I don't buy most scopes because the reticles are ridiculous, the turrets don't lock or have covers, or I can get something comparative for much less $.

 

[shoobe01]

I love, love, love my 4-16 Military. Got a 1-4 Military also.

NOT popular, so lots have not seen them. A little while back I was at an LR workshop, got to see a lot of other nice glass (and a friend I went with has a ZCO anyway), and likewise let others look. It was plus-or-minus as optically good as anything else in everyone's opinion. I like it, but was surprised it was right up there.

Yes, a pretty bog standard mildot reticle. I can see that being a downside for lots, agree they should offer others.

The Military line at least are long and heavy compared to ALL other scopes I am aware of, for the magnification and objective diameter.

Yes, retail is stupid. I traded or got NOS for both of mine. At the real world prices you can get them in like that, worth it.

Had to get it serviced (not really, was my fault but I sent it in) and they were nice, crazy fast, did it for free, sent back a detailed writeup of what they did as well.

Best photo of the two, and it is not great, is in this "my green .308s" family photo:

Bolt gun used to be very differently painted, haven't yet bothered to either strip or repaint the scope, hence apparently random camo.

 

[Elnino31]

The T5xi must have a lot of variance.
The one I owned was great, not as bright as something twice the price, but I felt it had good contrast. Seems strange, because I feel like most scope lines are consistent in terms of quality. I’ve probably had 8 different NXS and ATACRs and all were pretty much the same when compared to the others respectively. The T5xi beginning was not good press for Steiner and it clearly created some anti-Steiner folks. For the real world price they sell for, I think they’re still a good option

Now, the m7xi line is LEGIT. Just picked one up a month or so back. After finally getting it out the range a few times, I was impressed in doing a side by side with the ATCAR 7-35. The glass is excellent, super bright and clean. The msr2 may take a little getting used to, but I can tell that I’m going to like how fine it is.

I do think that if they lowered the MSRP to a what they sell for it would create more interest. At MSRP, you’ll naturally consider other options. In addition, the SCR/SCR2 is a no brainer and would sell more scopes to the PRS / target shooting crowd

ETA: liked the M5x line as well. Glass was great and turrets were nice. Hated the T3 though. I know some love it, but it wasn’t good to my eyes and I wasn’t willing to start changing out all of my scopes. Otherwise, I’d still have that m5x

 

[M77]

Big fan of my M7XI MSR2 , feels very clean / unobtrusive to use. Mine has very good image quality and very little CA. Turrets simplicity and feel is probably one of my favourites. Looking between my M7XI and ZP5 is very close imo , both give nice natural colours. The 2.9-20x50 I would love to have for my hunting rig but at $4500 AUD it's a little out of budget

 

[Gil P.]

The T5xi must have a lot of variance.
The one I owned was great, not as bright as something twice the price, but I felt it had good contrast. Seems strange, because I feel like most scope lines are consistent in terms of quality. I’ve probably had 8 different NXS and ATACRs and all were pretty much the same when compared to the others respectively. The T5xi beginning was not good press for Steiner and it clearly created some anti-Steiner folks. For the real world price they sell for, I think they’re still a good option

Now, the m7xi line is LEGIT. Just picked one up a month or so back. After finally getting it out the range a few times, I was impressed in doing a side by side with the ATCAR 7-35. The glass is excellent, super bright and clean. The msr2 may take a little getting used to, but I can tell that I’m going to like how fine it is.

I do think that if they lowered the MSRP to a what they sell for it would create more interest. At MSRP, you’ll naturally consider other options. In addition, the SCR/SCR2 is a no brainer and would sell more scopes to the PRS / target shooting crowd

ETA: liked the M5x line as well. Glass was great and turrets were nice. Hated the T3 though. I know some love it, but it wasn’t good to my eyes and I wasn’t willing to start changing out all of my scopes. Otherwise, I’d still have that m5x

How does the M7 compare your ATACR at 15x and 28x?

I like the MSR 2 because the line thickness is not as fine as most other scopes. I think many have a line thickness of
.036 mils, while the Steiner is at .040 with a center dot that's also .040.

 

[Elnino31]

Assume you’re asking about reticle size?
I’m of today, so what the hell

15x for both

 

[Elnino31]

25x

 

[Elnino31]

Atacr at 35x

 

[VegasKyle]

Literally a Burris