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Why do people seem down on Savage rifles?

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T

tobylazur

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Sep 12, 2007
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I'm looking for an entry level rifle to get into some long range shooting. Maybe some local PRS stuff, maybe some varmitting, mostly just shooting steel, trying to build skills. I'm kind of interested in something in .260rem/6.5CM or .243/6mm

Pretty much everything I've read has said to get a Howa 1500 Bravo, Begara HMR, or something custom. Since I have an older Savage model 10 already, I asked about the Savage offerings: the Desert Tactical 110, and the BA Stealth.

No body really seemed to have anything positive to say about Savage. What am i missing?
 
I ran a Savage 10FP I had since '97 up until two years ago. Had no problem finishing in the top third to half at most PRS matches (when I used to practice). If you're just beginning it's not a bad rifle. You could easily throw a prefit barrel if you need to switch calibers and shoot what you have until you need something better.

It's a great time to get into precision rifle shooting and if you had to buy a rifle there are lots of options but I would say use what you have. The barrel will swap with a lot of the new custom actions (ie Bighorn, Nucleus, etc) so if you ever decide to upgrade you won't lose comparability. They aren't the best actions out there but as long as it works it will get you what you need the most.....experience to grow.
 
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I’ve been around some Savage actions turned custom at matches. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one run 100%. I’m sure there are lots of Savage rifles that work well I just haven’t seen one yet in my limited time. I just think that in the long range game if it can go wrong it will. Savages just have more, could go wrong, than any other action. Just my opinion.
 
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Yes, bolt lift isn't great but they do break in a little. I had one ejector break over probably 10,000-12,000 rounds, mostly practicing and matches. If you spend $10 every 2,500 rounds or so and replace the extractor and ejector parts they tend to last a little longer. And upgrade them (extractor and ejector) from the beginning. Makes a big difference and costs practically nothing.
 
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Savage actions work, but are definitely not close to the best out there. They have been know to suffer from extraction/ ejection issues and the bolt life suck on them. I run a 12 LRP action. Its had some work done to get the bolt lift smoother. PT&G bolt body(oversized to help with bolt binding), and Pt&G bolt head and upgraded extractor to get it to extract right.

However, If you like to tinker, they are the bomb. I wouldn't hesitate to build one with a ARC Barloc system for easier barrel swaps.
 
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Ive seen one savage suffer ejection issues, but then I talked to another savage owner who's had no issues whatsoever and absolutely loves them.
I dont use them because the bolt lift is yucky and its not as smooth as a Tikka. So for factory actions, i just get the Tikka. But its just my opinion. I dont have any field time behind a savage.
 
I have a Model 12 F-class. I've had to pull out of two matches because the trigger locked up. It's set up as a switch barrel; 6BR and 284 Win. It ejects the 284 rounds just fine but won't eject 6BR. Not really a big deal since it's a single shot anyway. The action is rough and bolt lift is stiff.

On the positive side, it is quite accurate and didn't cost an arm and a leg.
 
Nothing wrong with savage. My current match rifle has close to 3000 on the action. It is smooth as shit now and the bolt lift is fine. That factory magazines leave a lot to be desired but if you are shooting comps you will want to switch to aics magazines anyway.

My last match i beat at least 4 guys shooting AIs, and lots of other high end custom rifles. It is more about the indian than the arrow
 
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Feeding and extraction/ejection issues. They're pretty accurate, but there are lots of accurate guns that don't have the same basic function issues.

308pirate said:
I'm not sure why anyone would put up with all that shit when you can buy an equivalent Bergara or Howa for the same money.
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Yep, or Tikka if you're throwing in Bergara
 
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First there was the Model 70 and rifleman rejoiced. For it was the culmination of all the great military designs with it's rustic claw extractor, mechanical ejector, and simple adjustable trigger.

Then there was the Remington 700 and the day laborers rejoiced. For although it lacked the refinement of the Riflemans Rifle, it was affordable and accurate.

And then the Savage 110 came and the unwashed masses rejoiced. For it was supremely affordable if not clunky. It might have had casting sprew still on the majority of the parts, a weird baffle that moved with the bolt, but it could spin the same bullets of the "better" rifles.

And then the CNC machine came and now all of these rifles costs the same. No longer did a journeyman machinists have to toil away with mil and file to create rifles for rifleman. And no longer did Savage need to make bolts and cooking baffles as separate pieces.

Basically all of the rifles now cost the same but they are all designed with manual machining in mind. All of the stuff that Savage markets as being accuracy features are just ways they made the rifles cheap to produce. So you end up with a cheap feeling rifle that doesn't always function well...yeah sure you can make it work but you are almost certainly going to have to fight the rifle at some point.
 
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308pirate said:
I'm not sure why anyone would put up with all that shit when you can buy an equivalent Bergara or Howa for the same money.
Click to expand...

I don't give a shit what brand i start with, i know it wont be long and i will be replacing a barrel and stock. It just so happens that savage has the cheapest and most available barrel of any other brand. The stock selection is not as good as remington but better than some others.

If you are paying as much for a savage as you are for a tikka, you are not looking very hard. I have never paid over 300 for a new or used one. When i get a new one i always take them apart clean them up and get them running the way they are supposed to. I would probably do the same with any brand.
 
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I have never used a savage, so keep that in mind.
The common problems I have seen at PRS matches is feeding and extraction. I have seen two go down in my squad this year due to a broken extractor, two different shooters. Every single savage shooter I have watched is anything but smooth when cycling the bolt to feed the next round. They may go a stage without issue but within a stage or two you'll see them finger fiddling around with the bolt, loading port or magazine. I have also witnessed two ND's in my time shooting matches and both were from Savage shooters, granted both admitted to fiddling with the trigger prior to match day.
 
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One can buy hay before, it goes threw the horse or after, the choice is theirs.

I bought a 338lm LR hunter an had to re-engineer parts of it. Spend lots of time an muscle polishing everything up an using some after market parts to replace what salvage said they would send but never did. After all the work I'll not part with it as there is no other 338lm I know of that is this lite an will do what it will do. All the work was worth it in the long run, but be aware you will not buy a salvage off the rack an have it preform properly w/o a lot of work.

All those who tell you they work great w/o fixing all the issues they come with, have never ran a stick they had to depend upon for their life. For if they had, they can tell very quickly what works, what might work for a few tasks, an what can be made to work for a task with a lot of work. If you can't fully smith a salvage by yourself, buy something else. If you have abilitys an tooling yes you can get it cheap an make it work for some tasks. If you may have to bet you life on it you best have much better than average ability, an tooling going in. The choice is your an yours alone.
 
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I think that as a competition rifle they tend to leave some things desired, but for casual use (banging steel, etc...) or hunting (even varminting) they're just fine. The problems with them seem to surface when they're run hard.

The bolt lift issue is easily corrected, as there are a number of bolt lift kits out there that make a noticeable difference.
 
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308220 said:
And custom rifles never go down during PRS matches. Ever. Never ever, ever. If one wont feed or extract, it must be the ammo! I mean, what else is there?!
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Lots of difference between a rifle used on a square range vs one on a two way. Square is always to tight, will they group better most of the time yes, will they eat dirt or anything else mother has to offer from a two way no they won't.
 
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mi223 said:
I don't give a shit what brand i start with, i know it wont be long and i will be replacing a barrel and stock. It just so happens that savage has the cheapest and most available barrel of any other brand. The stock selection is not as good as remington but better than some others.

If you are paying as much for a savage as you are for a tikka, you are not looking very hard. I have never paid over 300 for a new or used one. When i get a new one i always take them apart clean them up and get them running the way they are supposed to. I would probably do the same with any brand.
Click to expand...
Cool story bro
 
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BangBangBlatBlat said:
First there was the Model 70 and rifleman rejoiced. For it was the culmination of all the great military designs with it's rustic claw extractor, mechanical ejector, and simple adjustable trigger.

Then there was the Remington 700 and the day laborers rejoiced. For although it lacked the refinement of the Riflemans Rifle, it was affordable and accurate.

And then the Savage 110 came and the unwashed masses rejoiced. For it was supremely affordable if not clunky. It might have had casting sprew still on the majority of the parts, a weird baffle that moved with the bolt, but it could spin the same bullets of the "better" rifles.

And then the CNC machine came and now all of these rifles costs the same. No longer did a journeyman machinists have to toil away with mil and file to create rifles for rifleman. And no longer did Savage need to make bolts and cooking baffles as separate pieces.

Basically all of the rifles now cost the same but they are all designed with manual machining in mind. All of the stuff that Savage markets as being accuracy features are just ways they made the rifles cheap to produce. So you end up with a cheap feeling rifle that doesn't always function well...yeah sure you can make it work but you are almost certainly going to have to fight the rifle at some point.
Click to expand...

As noted economics and perception likely plays as big a part as performance.

Savage gave some people I work with some rifles to try out and my understanding was right out of the box they performed near as well as any of the other custom stuff they had.

I see lots of new guys firing Savages and they seem to do well with them and are proud of their rifles.

Savage being a local gun and under pressure by the SJW crowd I hope more people buy them.

For me its a "queer eye for the straight guy" thing.

The aesthetic of the bolt handle being the last thing at the back of the bolt goes up my ass.

Give me a cocking piece or striker indicator just to balance out my sense of beauty and form.

I need some artistry with my function.......

IMG_3096_1024x1024.jpg


IMG_3109_1024x1024.jpg


image_6136.jpg
 
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pmclaine said:
As noted economics and perception likely plays as big a part as performance.

Savage gave some people I work with some rifles to try out and my understanding was right out of the box they performed near as well as any of the other custom stuff they had.

I see lots of new guys firing Savages and they seem to do well with them and are proud of their rifles.

Savage being a local gun and under pressure by the SJW crowd I hope more people buy them.

For me its a "queer eye for the straight guy" thing.

The aesthetic of the bolt handle being the last thing at the back of the bolt goes up my ass.

Give me a cocking piece or striker indicator just to balance out my sense of beauty and form.

I need some artistry with my function.......

View attachment 6933556

View attachment 6933557

View attachment 6933558
Click to expand...

I missed my own point I wanted to make in the post above going off on the aesthetic tangent....

The economic reason that Savage is not chosen goes against the pure economic utility laws.

I think one big reason people are so against Savage is because they do not cost enough.

I think reality they cost what they are worth (and inversely some customs or factory cost MORE than they are worth) but "new" shooters and "shooter snobs" will turn their nose up at them because "seeing/Knowing" the cost of alternatives immediatly gives the impression that Savage will not shoot.

Forget the reality or the fact that starting into an immensely expensive sport by buying an economical rifle will allow you to spend more on ammo and optics that perception of "cheap" will immediatly bias someone against the Savage where bias is not justified - performance.

Hate them for looks or a some personal design flaw but when it comes to placing bullets they seem to meet the requirements.
 
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pmclaine said:
As noted economics and perception likely plays as big a part as performance.

Savage gave some people I work with some rifles to try out and my understanding was right out of the box they performed near as well as any of the other custom stuff they had.

I see lots of new guys firing Savages and they seem to do well with them and are proud of their rifles.

Savage being a local gun and under pressure by the SJW crowd I hope more people buy them.

For me its a "queer eye for the straight guy" thing.

The aesthetic of the bolt handle being the last thing at the back of the bolt goes up my ass.

Give me a cocking piece or striker indicator just to balance out my sense of beauty and form.

I need some artistry with my function.......

View attachment 6933556

View attachment 6933557

View attachment 6933558
Click to expand...

We have similar tastes. All of my fancy Winchesters have been in storage too long.
 
308220 said:
And custom rifles never go down during PRS matches. Ever. Never ever, ever. If one wont feed or extract, it must be the ammo! I mean, what else is there?!
Click to expand...
No one is claiming that customs don't go down also. What they're talking about is the FREQUENCY at which that happens depending on action. Someone on this forum had a thread a couple weeks ago about an AXMC that wouldn't extract. It would be juvenile to then go "HA! So AI rifles have the same problem as Savages! Checkmate atheist!" when that's the first thread I've seen on here about that problem in a couple of years. In using any rifle you're playing a numbers game against the chance that something will go wrong with it. That chance is just higher with a Savage versus other actions.
 
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I hope it's not too controversial to say my .308 Savage 10-FCP has served me well for roughly 5,000 rounds over the last 6 years. Ran it through matches and classes, in the dirt, rain and extreme heat. Shoots 1 minute, and I can swap and headspace a better pre-fit a barrel in almost as little time.

Only real problem I've had is some feeding issues with their proprietary 10 round double stack magazine, it does suck, but it can be upgraded to an AICS pattern mag. The 4 round flush fit magazine that came with it is flawless however. Other than that, never a failure to fire, extract or eject.

I would recommend a Savage to anyone starting out or on a budget. But understand like any other factory rifle it comes with it's own quirks and usually could benefit from a tune up out of the box (talking about torquing/trimming action screws, in letting the bbl channel, bedding, bolt lift mods, etc).
 
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OP,

If you need to ask you will not understand the answer. Buy a Savage. It will serve your purpose.
 
It's a cheap hunting rifle. Remington 783 (I think), Ruger American, Mossbergs, etc... all feel pretty rough and/or clunky next to the nice "custom" actions. You can screw a Bartlein into a Carcano and it will hammer, so accuracy is really a moot point unless you're going for BR level stuff. Comes down to a price vs. "quality" thing which is pretty subjective... or price vs. reliability with no real statistical data out there other than what people have seen at matches, during hunts, or on the range... Figure it up for yourself and if it works for you, go ahead.

They do tend to have tight bores (probably why the factory barrels have a reputation for accuracy) and lots of button chatter give higher than normal pressure and tend to foul up fast. Anecdotally, I've seen lots of extraction/ejection issues.

Personal opinion, I think they're made cheap, and I'm not a huge fan of the design/manufacture on the whole. I'd lean more towards a Ruger American Predator for a cheap rifle, but would be much more likely to spend more and get a Tikka, CZ, or Bergara, simply for design and execution quality.
 
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If this is what you budget allows than get a Savage, it will shoot. They run nice sales from time to time. If you can spend a bit more grab a Tikka or Bergara.
I like my savages the shoot but love that Tikka.
 
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Savages shoot good from the factory. For fun shooting off the bench, I wouldn't care. Hunting, I wouldn't care.

For a PRS match, ugghh. Bolt lift is bad. I have a custom for matches now. Still have my Savages.

Most of the precision and accuracy is in tbe barrel. Get a prefit and change barrels yourself. My Savage 110 with a Proof Carbon Fiber is sub .5 moa. It has a Sav II trigger which is one of the best aftermarket. But, I shoot the accutrigger just as well.
 
BangBangBlatBlat said:
And then the CNC machine came and now all of these rifles costs the same. No longer did a journeyman machinists have to toil away with mil and file to create rifles for rifleman. And no longer did Savage need to make bolts and cooking baffles as separate pieces.

Basically all of the rifles now cost the same but they are all designed with manual machining in mind. All of the stuff that Savage markets as being accuracy features are just ways they made the rifles cheap to produce. So you end up with a cheap feeling rifle that doesn't always function well...yeah sure you can make it work but you are almost certainly going to have to fight the rifle at some point.
Click to expand...
You are right that the Savage action was designed as a budget rifle but the barrel nut and floating bolt head that were undoubtably cost reduction measures are actually improvements over the Winchester 70 and Remington 700.

Some people will debate the barrel nut but it allows the end user to install a pre-fit barrel with minimal tooling. It opens up the platform to home gunsmithing which is very nice for people who don't want to pay for a custom Remington 700.

Of course this makes most professional gunsmiths look down upon them because they see it as money out of their pocket.

Back to the price, Savage is still cheaper than a Remington 700 despite all of Remington's best efforts to cheapen them up. Better than that, Savage rifles have a reputation for shooting a lot better than their low price would suggest.

The bolt lift issue is real but the best Savage gunsmiths offer timing packages so that your bolt lift isn't simultaneously doing primary extraction and cocking at the same time. That and a bolt lift kit solves the problem. From a description of the procedure, it sounds like a hobby gunsmith who knows what he's doing can figure out how to time up a Savage action. I will attempt it if I ever have to.

One funny thing about Savage is that their Axis is supposed to be their budget action but it always seems to be more expensive than a sale price 12FV...
 
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tobylazur said:
I'm looking for an entry level rifle to get into some long range shooting. Maybe some local PRS stuff, maybe some varmitting, mostly just shooting steel, trying to build skills. I'm kind of interested in something in .260rem/6.5CM or .243/6mm

Pretty much everything I've read has said to get a Howa 1500 Bravo, Begara HMR, or something custom. Since I have an older Savage model 10 already, I asked about the Savage offerings: the Desert Tactical 110, and the BA Stealth. here are

No body really seemed to have anything positive to say about Savage. What am i missing?
Click to expand...

People choose to buy things for reasons other than utility. If that were not the case Rolex would not exist and Patek Philippe would have never sold a watch. You have already considered some alternatives to Savage and there are plenty more alternatives like Tikka, RPR, etc. There is a difference between shooting for fun, shooting to learn, shooting to compete and competing to win. A savage is capable of doing all of those things depending on which one you buy and how it is modified.

If your Savage is in a suitable caliber start there. If it's not consider a new barrel and caliber. You haven't said whether you have a suitable optic and that may be a better place to put your money if you can utilize your Savage. Read the stickies in the Marksmanship Forum https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/#snipers-hide-advance-marksmanship-unit.19 . Consider LL's Online Training.
 
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I've shot 2 Savage bolt actions. One was plastic-stocked .308 and would not hold 4" at 100 yards with commercial ammo off a bench. The other was a 9-twist .223 in an atrocious Boyd's laminate that did less than MOA at 100. They were not pretty, and the bolt did not run very smoothy and had a variety of rough stamped and cast steel parts. They felt cheap, they looked cheap and did not impress me even at their barebones price point.

What has caught my eye was the Howa Mini in .223. The barreled action was a very similar knockoff of a Sako L461, the tolerances were tight, the machine and finish work were nice, the bolt and trigger ran pretty darn decent for a $299 gun and 3 of them I've shot hold less than MOA. Where it failed were the plastic stock, plastic floor 'metal' and $40 plastic magazine, but for $299 I'd bend over backwards for the Howa over a Savage.
 
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I like my savage. I'm not a big time PRS guy. So I will save the money from a custom action and hone my skills. Then splurge on a custom and get serious. You can wrap up a lot of coin in a savage. I out shot everyone at the local match. they were running custom rigs. I had my savage LRP. Skills trump equipment. But a nice action would of made some of the short time stages easier. That bolt lift will get you.

Scott
 
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Op , the truth is Savage is junk. It always has been inferior and today there is zero reason to even consider them. Thats why no one but bubba gumps recommends them. CRF master race.
 
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I have several Savages, LRP, LRPV, 2 Tikkas, Berger B14HMR. My Savages out shoot my Bergara, have a better trigger . THE. BERGARA has a sloppy action when compared to My Tikka.
 
I've been shooting Savages since the early 1990's. Mine have always shot well. Bolt lift? It is what it is, and I seldom even notice such things.

When I moved to AZ two years back, I had to divest about 2/3 of my rifles, etc. That one took some time and thought; they were going to my offspring and her offspring. They got my good hunting rifles, a priceless Win 70 30-06 Featherweight, and my Savage Predator Hunter 260. My 94AE Trapper Carbine 44mag went to the Grandson, the Cricket to the littlest Granddaughter who is now 10. My 12ga shotguns and a few rifled 20ga went to the general gaggle. Two of my three 91/30's went there too, and remain the most prolific deer harvesters among the bunch.

What I kept were the Savage heavy barrels and the Stag, my 20ga semi's, and my military rifles, a prewar Garand, a Yugo 66A1 SKS, a 92/30 in an Archangel Stock, and the Savage Scout 7.62x39. I have added second Stag Super Varminter, and another Savage heavy barrel, and acquired another three 16" uppers for the Stags since our eldest Granddaughter joined us here in AZ.

What I kept were the ones that gave me the most fun in my dotage. Cost is not a significant issue either way, nor is resale value. I won't keep a gun that won't respond to load development. Some nice ones got away when times were tight.

I've owned the others, the 700's, the 77's, and more, but I keep coming back to the Savages because their accuracy and their character suit my own quirky constitution.

Folks are going to speak their minds however that shakes out.

Greg
 
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Everyone has a hard use , 50K rounds down the pipe, trust my life to it savage YET,

When they show up in a precision rifle class or anywhere guns are run hard, they tend to fail and fail at a much higher rate than anything else.

Internet claims are just that. The rubber meets the road on the range.
 
This country was founded by people called settlers, they were hard people who would not stand for foolishness or tools that did not preform the task they were bought for. Anything worth having was said to be "Up To Green River Standards". This nation still has Settlers, however the stds they live by today, have changed somewhat.
 
I thought the same thing - what could be so wrong with them? i have been shooting 3 different models for several years. 2 shoot fantastic, one not so hot. Luck of the draw with any manufacturer I suppose.

The real issue is in my book is the bolt, feeding, extracting. Just plinking with them all those things don't matter that much in the short term. The more time you spend behind the gun, the more those little glitches from time to time get annoying and start to get frustrating.

All it took for me was one time in the store running the bolt on a Tikka. That sold me so I bought one recently. I am sure it will shoot the same as my Savages, but the all around shooting 'experience' will be (hopefully) improved.

I have spent more on ammo and a barrel on one Savage to negate any cost difference between the manufactures.

My 2 cents - If one is to go shooting once in a while, get a Savage. Go shooting often, I think one would be happier with a better quality action for the better experience.
 
Primus said:
Everyone has a hard use , 50K rounds down the pipe, trust my life to it savage YET,

When they show up in a precision rifle class or anywhere guns are run hard, they tend to fail and fail at a much higher rate than anything else.

Internet claims are just that. The rubber meets the road on the range.
Click to expand...

This is what I was getting at in my post as well. I don't see many Savages at matches, but when I do, Murphy is close by.

I get it, if it's what you have, bring it... cause you aren't going to learn anything sitting on your ass at home. But for a shooter who is considering attending matches buy something better.
 
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