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Range Report Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

JC Steel

Gunny Sergeant
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 12, 2008
3,388
267
40
Washington State
Well to start off with I respect everyone and if you are older than I, I mean no disrespect by any of my comments. They are not directed towards you.

I was at the range the other day and there was 1 other guy doing some shooting. He was older and was doing some positional shooting and right away struck me as the kind of guy that wanted to talk with you until you were blue in the face. Anyway, we got to talking and he started telling me about bullets, ballistics and performance of everything coming up with numbers about this and that and percentages of this and that. Most of which he probably came up with in his dreams...
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We started talking about sub MOA guns and things that had to do with accuracy and such. He was talking about how 5 shot groups mean nothing and he hates how people say I shot whatever size five shot group. He ended a statement in which he said a firearm can not shoot under a 1.5-2 inch froup at 100 yards for an extended period of time. Say maybe 20 or 50 rounds. I stopped him right there and told him he was wrong and I just by chance I had my .284 in the car that could put 20 rounds on paper at 100 yards under 1.5 inches. He continued saying its just not possible becuase there are just too many variables with reloading and such. I told him no disrespect but thats easy. He all of a sudden got upset!!! He reached into his wallet and pulled out a crisp $100 and layed it onto the concrete bench. I started laughing. This old guy was so stuck in his ways thinking he was right that he was willing to risk his wifes social security money to "prove he was right". I by chance had one of those crisp peices of paper in my wallet too!!! I reached in my pocket and put my peice of green paper on the concrete bench as well. I said lets just see. At this point he started groaning and talking to himself while I opened up my case and pulled out my Custom Benchmark barrel .284.

I went down range and hung up a 6 inch target at 100 yards. Came back and started shooting prone. In about 5 minutes time with 4 mag changes I was all done. I could see it through the scope and knew it was one heck of a group but did not want to say anything until the target was in hand. I asked him if he would like to go get it and he passed. I ran down and snagged the target and laid it down next to the $200. As I laid down the target I picked up the money and started to put my rifle back in my case. I could hear him talking to himself and saying I just got really lucky. Thats just not possible he said.
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Can you guess what I did???? Darn right, I laid down his $100 and asked if he needed me to do it again. HAHA. He passed on my offer.

The group measured .770 inches for 20 shots. All were touching and it was really just on big hole. One shot was a little high left. I remember that shot and knew I pulled it left.

Anyway, he was still denying everything and was telling me he has been writing a book for 20 years on ballistics and rifles and ammo and things like that. I thought about making a comment about how he needed to re write some parts of it but I keep my mouth shut out of respect.

Just thought I would share my day at the range. Now what to buy????

Thanks for reading

Jake
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Haha! That's just freaken great. I wish stuff like that would happen to me! Lot's of Bubba's out there.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Good for you! I'll bet the old dudemar is still thinking to himself, "Those grapes were probably sour anyway" (LOL).
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

I find it odd that you associate that behavior with his age. One guy, one day at the range, one experience. Maybe the younger guys were just too busy shooting their 50cals with their girlfriends? Or maybe it took him a long time to save up $100 for the bet? If you want to meet the old duffers at the range, try Fridays or Mondays, they're all retired and avoiding the weekend crowd!
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Jake, you suckered him bud, I for one know that you can shoot. I do agree with One-Eyed jack though, some folks either young or old can get a mindset on something and it wouldn't matter how many times they are told or shown something new, you could never change their mind. By the way Jack its is usually Thursday when they at my local range. have had some good chats and more than a few have offered their help when I needed it.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Nice one. I would have claimed you put 5 through the same hole and 15 off target haha...perhaps on purpose
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

I had an experience at a public range where, while I was practicing my standing position, I was interrupted by a guy who immediately made an impression on me, not so much by his age but by his wardrobe, which included a leather bombers jacket and ball cap, each escorted with a multitude of meaningless pins and badges, none of which, it appeared, represented any earned marksmanship credential. Nevertheless, this guy wanted to show me how to do it, insisting my nose had to be on the charging handle. My response was to tell him my cheekweld placement, for what was comfortable for the position, determined the relationship between my nose and the charging handle. I understand where he was coming from however; and, I know he meant well. At any rate, spend enough time on the range and you'll see a whole lot of folks who have been doing it wrong for a long time, showing other folks how to do it wrong. These folks seem to be in a state of perpetual practice, where mediocre outcomes from their thoughtless pursuits are assured.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Funny stuff. I cant believe you actually took his wife's Social Security Money!!?? LOL
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hookman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny stuff. I cant believe you actually took his wife's Social Security Money!!?? LOL
</div></div>

Stupid should hurt or be expensive its frequency would be reduced.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hookman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny stuff. I cant believe you actually took his wife's Social Security Money!!?? LOL
</div></div>

Stupid should hurt or be expensive its frequency would be reduced. </div></div>

He will still be stupid, just not a hundred bucks worth.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Just as smart happens everywhere with anyone and at anytime, so does stupid. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know. Pay attention, there will be tests...

I starve beavers! Do you?
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

1 eyed jack it was about 1pm on tuesday. Dont get me wrong, there are some younger folks out there that know it all as well. Both are annoying I just sometimes find it hard to talk with an older guy that has things engraved in his mind for 60 years or so and wants to listen to nothing. I am sure we have all came acrossed those kind of people before. In 40 years I might be one of those guy!!!
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Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Nice story, I'm an old foggie myself I guess now. Me and my shooting buddy Dale get that too but usually from the younger crowd when we show up at the long range plate matches with our long range pistols. Never had anyone want to bet but usually just get rolled eyes and snickers when we drag them out of our lil short cases. We've learned long ago it never pays to rag on someone with what they bring to shoot or what they look like till AFTER the match is over.
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Topstrap
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Yea, well I think you cheated !

Bet you <span style="font-weight: bold">$100</span> that you were using butter flavered wind cheater.
grin.gif
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Last fall I was shooting a .308 at the 400-yard range at the Montgomery County shooting complex (south of Ft Campbell) and the RSO -- who I could tell by his baseball cap was a Vietnam vet -- proceeded to lecture me about powders and why I should switch from Varget to 4895. I'm shooting 2 1/2" groups at 400 yards and he's berating my choice of powders.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Hmm... I've never had the old guys come up and tell me I was doing it wrong, but when I've asked for advice I've gotten more than an earful.. Usually its the young crowd that's doing the dumber stuff... from what I've observed.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

That's a pretty amusing story. There is, however, another category of "old guy" out there. Not seen too often at public ranges, they usually have their own and generally shoot only with trusted friends. They're definitely gray-haired, going to white, lots of weather lines around the eyes. But the eyes...still pretty clear and they have that unmistakable look that combat guys recognize immediately. They may need bifocals to see the scope knobs, but then they handily shoot everything to 600 with holdovers and do it right now. You watch them shoot, and they do everything the same, every time, and they don't miss often. They aren't usually in cammies but if they are, it's often something foreign like Rhodesian or very faded Brit DPMs, maybe ancient woodland or tiger stripes. They are generally very low profile and don't have anything to prove to anyone, having "been there and done that" long before many on this board were born. But, if you ask them for advice or a little help with the wind, they give it freely without ostentation or claiming superior knowledge, just shooter talking to shooter. These are guys who are a wealth of information, but you have to ask them, they don't offer it up as gospel and they don't pontificate. And, they've generally mellowed a bit with age, but you know what they say..."don't fuck with an old guy, he'll just kill you."
Best,
James
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

I am pretty old. I can shoot better than most my age. I have been reloading for 40 years. I would not bet a dime against a youngster with a longrange type rifle. I have seen too many of them shoot. I will stay with them but I doubt that I can ever again out shoot one of them. There stronger,faster,see better and better focused. But I do have something that I bellieve is the absolute truth. One day you too will be looking back futher than you can see forward. Keep you sense of hunmor with us old farts, we still want to play with guns and be with the first string shooters
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

I never have any good range stories.....but then my 0-300 range is in the yard with 1 station off of my reloading stool out a window. I have to get on the 4 wheeler to shoot to 2k.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never have any good range stories.....</div></div>All your <span style="font-style: italic">really</span> good stories involve flying insects.
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Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

I don't shoot at public ranges unless I'm shooting a match or putting on a clinic.

I'm the old dude that gets laughed at. Youngsters snikering when I was dry firing off hand. I had my jacket on, ear muffs, no ammo, snapping away, plotting in my score book, checking the scope.

Look at the old man, he doesn't realize he forgot his ammo.

Funny thing is, after they were shooting, They didnt have many more hits on target then I did.

I really don't believe "smart ass" is age related.

It's easier just to shoot on my own range.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Some people are just set in their ways... cant do anything about it.

Its the grumble bums that annoy me the most, especially when they feel the urge to complain to you or at you.

I had one old guy tell me that rifles like mine should be banned... I asked him why and he said because its a tactical rifle....

I didnt realise these days that tactical rifles were far deadlier than any hunting rifle. I then asked this guy how long hes been shooting for and he said his whole life.

What can you do. Just ignore them and only talk to the people willing to have normal or informative conversations.

I think you did the right thing putting him in his ways. That is if he is still shooting and hasnt given up after having his ass handed to himself. From the sounds of it this guy needed to get it thru his head that he was wrong and the reason he isnt getting sub moa groups is because either he cant shoot for shit, or his rifle is a piece of crap.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Jim Cloward showed up at our range one October a few years back, and proceeded to quietly and competently set a new 600 yard range record for our club - except he doesn't shoot here but once a year. I think he's been shooting since he took part in the Lewis & Clark expedition... Somewhere along the way he killed a trophy room full of animals, owned the U.S. 1,000 yard prone record, and built a whole bunch of match winning long range rifles.

Another old guy, Elzie Scott, got back into Hunter Benchrest a few years ago. He never really left it, just didn't compete on the national level for quite a while. Headed back east to shoot the Nationals, and came home with the First Place award. Elzie is about as old as the hills, just a little fellow most folks overlook when he wanders into a gun shop. Big mistake. Fifteen minutes of talking with him will improve most anyone's shooting.

Some old guys really do know it all - because they've done it. Some guys just get old, others live life.

Regards, Guy
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Good point.

I must admit most good conversations I have at the range are with the older guys and I must admit I enjoy spending time with them... Many of the experienced shooters are a wealth of information.

Their enthusiasm for the sport/hobby also is very good.

Just drains life when you come across the bitter dudes that are angry at life for some reason.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

I started my own private range just to get away from any stupid shit young or old..


When I did mingle with the yocals I met a Old retired Green berret army navy seal one time..I think If I took his bill he may go Flash back on me...
wink.gif
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Jake: Steve Martin said it years ago. As people get older they get prejudice against new ideas. It tends to happen with the passage of time, not necessarily age - but the two are related. It comes with life experience. You'll get there Jake, we all get there.

My Dad, and his dad before him are classic examples. Even thought my Dad was a great shot in his day, he sees my .223AI and his .222 Rem Mag as 250 yard varmint rounds. He's just not use to dealing with DOPE cards and turrets. My Grandfather was also a great shot but refused to take a shot with his .22 long rifle past about 75 yards. Might be a Depression era thing, not wanting to waste a shot. Who knows.

I remember the day my Dad lost $5 to a friend he bet could not hit a 4" gong 3 times at 160 yards with his open sighted Colt Trooper.

Anyway, great shooting and great story.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

It could possibly be that all the equipment he has ever used has been middle of the road at best. In all fairness I did pull out a $5000 rifle set up to shoot with. I think the last rifle he has bought was probably about 20 years ago. Equipment has changed since then and I think things have gotten a little better since then.

I am pretty sure he has loaded his ammo to very precise loads. He did way more things when loaded his ammo than I even knew about. Needless to say I am going to have to go back and ask him how I can get more consistant loads!!!!

I enjoy talking with anyone about guns, shooting, ammo, reloading, really anything. I dont care who they are: young, old, in the middle somewhere....Just dont shut someone up because you think you know it all. Things today very well may be better today than long ago in your hay day. Whenever that was. I am sure I will be the same way when I become more seasoned. Hopefully some young punk will put me in my place at the range when I am trying to prove something to him. LOL
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

I like how the Op was calculated in his conversation and decided not to blaber all crazy and instead just prove it
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thats how its done!

I don't think its age but the person and where he gets his information from!

I've meet old smart people and not so smart. Then I have bumped into young smart people and others not so smart!
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

jeez, remind me --- again--- I'm getting old --which age group invented holding a glock sideways when shooting.


edited for sight
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

^^^ The gangsta age!
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and they need clips not magazines!
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Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcvibby</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Anyway, he was still denying everything and was telling me he has been writing a book for 20 years on ballistics and rifles and ammo and things like that...</div></div>

The time it's taking him to write the book sounds inversely proportional to his knowledge.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

there are those that say they got 35 years of shooting experience ....but what they really got is one years experience 35 times.

and some are loop'd in their drug and booze euphoria reliving their miss-spent yoot.....here hold my beer , watch this syndrome....

and others, are just a danger to themselves and those around them.

them that are old and good that shoot stay current and updated, ...you'll know 'em, they go home with the bacon.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frank Cordrey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yea, well I think you cheated !

Bet you <span style="font-weight: bold">$100</span> that you were using butter flavered wind cheater.
grin.gif
</div></div>

I betting that a big bottle of "SpinD" was involved.

BMT
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

i generally dont like a soul to talk to me on the range, im there for a purpose, young, old, gay, straight doesnt matter, leave me alone to shoot my daisy bb gun to my own accord
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

You have been a member how long and still believe everything thing you hear?

You have more posts than most responding to your question.

Safe queen and no money to shoot, or good cheap gun and make good ammo?

Hmmm.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

When I was a boy... oh shit, what was I going to write? Fergettit.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

As the Resident Elder Fart, I can say with absolute certainty that what I 'knew' when I came to this site is not what I 'know' now. These words are both in quotations because I consider neither of them to be absolutely correct.

One learns to use terms like "IMHO", and "I think", rather than framing statements in concrete.

I am always learning, and the views I voice are nowadays intended as a sharing of belief rather than statements of absolute fact. I sm more comfortable leaving the dispensation of absolute facts to others. My expressed views reflect the combinations of preconceived ideas and good arguments that sway my opinions. As such they are always undergoing some sort of subtle revision.

Who stagnates becomes irrelevant.

Greg
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Great story and good thread. Lots of wisdom here. I was on the "giving" end of a bet like that once three and a half decades ago when I was pretty shit hot cyclist and some young kid I was working with thought he could ride my road bike no hands up an impossibly steep twisty road to the top. I called him on it and he did it but it was worth it just to watch him suffer
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In time (note to young guys-it FLYS by) I have learned to keep my mouth shut and mind open regarding initial opinions about just about everyone until I know a whole lot more about them or they become a threat to my safe passage through life.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Well put. I'd phrase it as, "The more I learn, the less I <span style="font-style: italic">know</span>.".
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Good line Greg. For me it's the more I learn the more I realize I don't know
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Funny stuff. I try to learn all that I can from long time seasoned shooters. I may have to discard most of what they say but usually they have something that I can use.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

You can learn something from everyone you encounter. Sometimes it's what not to do. I personally always take situations like that as a teaching opportunity. The guy was a shooter, just that fact makes him more worthwhile investing effort in than some.

As I age, I realize how difficult it is to resist the urge to resist change. What was second nature at 25 requires much humility at 45...
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

A quality factory rifle would be able to accomplish that. That guy is a joke. Reminds me of when an old timer told me that no one ever shoots with bullets jammed into the lands, and if I did, I would blow my gun and face up. I just smiled and walked away.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

That is classic.....I will say from my time on here some of the old farts are very sharp! Not all old guys are created equal. I met one of the type in your post at the range a couple months ago. I rarely go ther and shoot my own stuff but happened to be there with a friend that wanted to shoot off a bench. We were beside a guy shooting off hand at 100yds when the guy with him said "good shooting"....and he replied "ought to be I was a sniper in Vietnam". So I had to ask what he shot as a sniper in Vietnam....he replied "M-16...its all I needed". They are everywhere on public ranges.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

So typical. Some people just don't get what great guns with great shooters are really capable of
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: James in Wyoming</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's a pretty amusing story. There is, however, another category of "old guy" out there. Not seen too often at public ranges, they usually have their own and generally shoot only with trusted friends. They're definitely gray-haired, going to white, lots of weather lines around the eyes. But the eyes...still pretty clear and they have that unmistakable look that combat guys recognize immediately. They may need bifocals to see the scope knobs, but then they handily shoot everything to 600 with holdovers and do it right now. You watch them shoot, and they do everything the same, every time, and they don't miss often. They aren't usually in cammies but if they are, it's often something foreign like Rhodesian or very faded Brit DPMs, maybe ancient woodland or tiger stripes. They are generally very low profile and don't have anything to prove to anyone, having "been there and done that" long before many on this board were born. But, if you ask them for advice or a little help with the wind, they give it freely without ostentation or claiming superior knowledge, just shooter talking to shooter. These are guys who are a wealth of information, but you have to ask them, they don't offer it up as gospel and they don't pontificate. And, they've generally mellowed a bit with age, but you know what they say..."don't fuck with an old guy, he'll just kill you."
Best,
James</div></div>

Thank you. A good read.

Ignorance is no respecter of persons... young or old. I've seen it all.
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

It's funny how some people learn only their ways and when someone proves them wrong... they aren't wrong the person got lucky. Good read and you hustled an old man how do you feel? lol
 
Re: Why do some old guys know it all??? LOL

Looked at another way, the older I get the more I "realise" just how much my dad must have learned since I was 16!! LOL

I was convinced then that he knew nothing....

Now?

Well let's just say youth also has a certain arrogance and disrespect!
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