Why not Expander ball Dies? Neck sizing?

[Tactical30]

I had recenly just got into reloading and the die sets I have so far are the Forester Benchrest .223 Die set and the Forester Micrometer seater die for the 6.5 Grendel and the Forester Seating die for the 6.5 grendel. Why do I keep hearing "toss the dies with expander balls in the garbage!"
My question is, Why? They have been working good for me. I am now shooting by far better accuracy than I was with Factory ammo. Im sure there are better dies I could have got but I got what I got and it works. What do the other dies use that dont use expander balls? What manufacturers make them?
Should I just keep doing what im doing or purchase something better?

My other question is:
I keep hearing "Always FL size for an AR" but then I hear some guys that swear by just neck sizing for their AR. All the Reloading books I have read say "FL size for auto or semi autos" What should I do? Does one way prove to have better accuracy or what? Whats the difference?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Why not Expander ball Dies? Neck sizing?

I don't know either. Us Phillistines seem to get by just fine with standard F/L dies and expander balls.

Neck bushings are used by folks with higher standards, apparently.

Greg

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Why not Expander ball Dies? Neck sizing?

LongRange30,

I agree with Greg; in your gun, you'll be happy using the die as it was designed, and your dies are perfect.

Neck sizing is preferred by some for extreme accuracy in guns designed for it for a specific purpose where absolute reliability is not crucial. Some suspect the expander ball stretches the case mouth and others don't know why they don't use it, but they never meant to trash the whole die, just the ball. Leave it in, but polish it by chucking the stem with the ball on it in a small drill and hold a piece of 400 grit sandpaper with oil on it and spin the ball in the sandpaper while on the stem so its less grippy on the case mouth. You can repeat this as often as you wish but don't over do it.

Get two books:
Handloading for Competition.
The Competitive AR15,

both by Zediker. Do what he says and ignore every one else. He is THE man on AR's and handloading for them.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Why not Expander ball Dies? Neck sizing?

About the dies. The expander ball is the chief cause of long cases. I have done expirements, very little streach is caused by fireing the case. It is dragging that ball back through the neck. Often un lubricated. You can use them just watch your case length. And remember that brass is coming from somewhere. After you trim twice look for partial case head seperation. Internally and externally.
About the AR's. I would consider small base dies if you are having trouble with feeding. If not standard dies are fine. Most accuracy guys are now using a FL die with a neck bushing. Just get a .0005 shoulder bump and size the neck.
Good luck.

 

[918v]

Re: Why not Expander ball Dies? Neck sizing?

If you lube the inside of the neck, then the expander ball exits smoothly. If you don't, and who really wants to lube the inside of the neck, the expander ball drags, galls, and pulls the neck and shoulder forward.

I like the Lee collet neck die. No ball to drag through the neck, easy on the brass, I just wish it was made by Redding.

 

[Criver600]

Re: Why not Expander ball Dies? Neck sizing?

Non bushing dies severely oversize the neck (reduce diameter) the expander-ball brings it back to .003/.004 under bullet diameter. This can be a cause of case neck run-out. With a bushing die you can control the amount of neck sizing/tension without having to use an expander ball. Some folks have their FL/bushing dies set to just feel the expander-ball pull through the neck.
I minimum full length resize and bump the shoulder .001/.0015. Operating the bolts on my rifles is a one finger affair. I shoot 50 rounds of 308 ammunition out of my Palma rifle every Monday evening at 1000 yards. I can get 20 to 25 firings out of a case before I have to toss them. Ammunition will shoot clean scores with good X counts.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Why not Expander ball Dies? Neck sizing?

By the way, you may return the Forster die along with a fired case from your rifle with a note telling the tech how much neck tension you want to run and he'll hone the neck part of the die to achieve that.

 

[vinconco]

Re: Why not Expander ball Dies? Neck sizing?

In larger production runs using mixed brass I use the Dillon power trimmer/sizer die to F/L size and trim the brass. In the next station I run it through a Lyman "M" die that brings the neck up to final dimension without dragging a ball through it.