Hey guys, I am new to the board and this is my first post. I am just wondering why people spend such big money on scopes. I am not a professional by any means, but consider myself a decent shooter. The primary rifles I shoot with are my trusty 1022 and my brand new Remington 700 SPS Tactical. I understand that with higher end scopes you are going to get clearer optics and better durability most of the time but I just can't see spending $1000 plus on a scope. Here is why....my 1022 Ruger has a $70 BSA Sweet 22 on it. At anywhere from 50-100 yds I can just about put the groups in the same hole on a non windy day off my Harris bi-pod. Out to 200yds I can still make nice groups with it. My new 700 has a 32 power BSA side wheel scope that cost me $150. If I do my job, it is very accurate. At 200 yards the other day off a very cheap and unsturdy plastic rest I shot a 1.25" group in the wind. That was the first day I ever fired the rifle. I use very cheap Walmart Federal ammo in the 700 and CCI in the 22. I am just wondering why people pay so much for scopes when you can do the same job with much less money invested?
Rifle Scopes Why pay the big money when.......
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
I am kicking back, I have a bucket of KFC and a sixpack ready,
who will set this newcomer straight?
I am kicking back, I have a bucket of KFC and a sixpack ready,
who will set this newcomer straight?
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
Ive got the beer, whos bringing the popcorn?
Ive got the beer, whos bringing the popcorn?
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey guys, I am new to the board and this is my first post. I am just wondering why people spend such big money on scopes. I am not a professional by any means, but consider myself a decent shooter. The primary rifles I shoot with are my trusty 1022 and my brand new Remington 700 SPS Tactical. I understand that with higher end scopes you are going to get clearer optics and better durability most of the time but I just can't see spending $1000 plus on a scope. Here is why....my 1022 Ruger has a $70 BSA Sweet 22 on it. At anywhere from 50-100 yds I can just about put the groups in the same hole on a non windy day off my Harris bi-pod. Out to 200yds I can still make nice groups with it. My new 700 has a 32 power BSA side wheel scope that cost me $150. If I do my job, it is very accurate. At 200 yards the other day off a very cheap and unsturdy plastic rest I shot a 1.25" group in the wind. That was the first day I ever fired the rifle. I use very cheap Walmart Federal ammo in the 700 and CCI in the 22. I am just wondering why people pay so much for scopes when you can do the same job with much less money invested? </div></div>
Box test, DO IT to the range your scope is supposed to operate within, and then report the results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey guys, I am new to the board and this is my first post. I am just wondering why people spend such big money on scopes. I am not a professional by any means, but consider myself a decent shooter. The primary rifles I shoot with are my trusty 1022 and my brand new Remington 700 SPS Tactical. I understand that with higher end scopes you are going to get clearer optics and better durability most of the time but I just can't see spending $1000 plus on a scope. Here is why....my 1022 Ruger has a $70 BSA Sweet 22 on it. At anywhere from 50-100 yds I can just about put the groups in the same hole on a non windy day off my Harris bi-pod. Out to 200yds I can still make nice groups with it. My new 700 has a 32 power BSA side wheel scope that cost me $150. If I do my job, it is very accurate. At 200 yards the other day off a very cheap and unsturdy plastic rest I shot a 1.25" group in the wind. That was the first day I ever fired the rifle. I use very cheap Walmart Federal ammo in the 700 and CCI in the 22. I am just wondering why people pay so much for scopes when you can do the same job with much less money invested? </div></div>
Box test, DO IT to the range your scope is supposed to operate within, and then report the results.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
Ill bring the popcorn!!
Ill bring the popcorn!!
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
Check out the Optics FAQ:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=378812#Post378812
Lots of good info. I'm a noob and have been reading a lot from the archives.
Check out the Optics FAQ:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=378812#Post378812
Lots of good info. I'm a noob and have been reading a lot from the archives.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
If your happy with the cheap stuff good for you, save yourself some money. A word of advice though, dont shoot anyones high end optics because then you will realize how much yours sucks. That happened to me, only problem is im stuck with my $200 bushnell and I am left dreaming!
If your happy with the cheap stuff good for you, save yourself some money. A word of advice though, dont shoot anyones high end optics because then you will realize how much yours sucks. That happened to me, only problem is im stuck with my $200 bushnell and I am left dreaming!
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
I seriously am new to all this and just want to know. I had a budget of around 1000 when I bought my scope and gave the side wheel a shot just because my little 1022 did so well with the BSA. A buddy of mine has one on his AR and loves it too.I don't know how good or bad that grouping is at 200yds but it's good enough for me to kill whatever I need to.
I seriously am new to all this and just want to know. I had a budget of around 1000 when I bought my scope and gave the side wheel a shot just because my little 1022 did so well with the BSA. A buddy of mine has one on his AR and loves it too.I don't know how good or bad that grouping is at 200yds but it's good enough for me to kill whatever I need to.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
You have to have the best tools for the Job, like a car mechanic.
For me and you BSA is O.K, but for professional people is not.
You have to have the best tools for the Job, like a car mechanic.
For me and you BSA is O.K, but for professional people is not.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
do you ever plan to shoot past 200 yards?
do you ever plan to shoot past 200 yards?
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
I'm mixing a pitcher of Margaritas and breaking out the salsa!
BSAs are cheap, fair quality chink scopes. Anyone who ever looked through one of these (unless he was "visually handicapped")
(blind to us old farts) could tell the VERY BIG difference.
I'm mixing a pitcher of Margaritas and breaking out the salsa!
BSAs are cheap, fair quality chink scopes. Anyone who ever looked through one of these (unless he was "visually handicapped")
(blind to us old farts) could tell the VERY BIG difference.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
I understand that too. I should have clarified that we shoot strictly for fun and to get ready to hunt. I plan on shooting out to 300 Wednesday. That is the farthest range we have here. I would like to shoot out to 500 eventually with the 700.
I understand that too. I should have clarified that we shoot strictly for fun and to get ready to hunt. I plan on shooting out to 300 Wednesday. That is the farthest range we have here. I would like to shoot out to 500 eventually with the 700.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
The very bottom minumum I would consider for your type of shooting would be a Super Sniper (www.swfa.com).
Right now you are just shooting as close in targets that aren't doing anything. If you start shooting longer distance and have to start moving those knobs, you will really see where your scope fails.
As viking said above, do a box text. I'd be very suprised if your scope returns you close to zero when all is said an done.
The very bottom minumum I would consider for your type of shooting would be a Super Sniper (www.swfa.com).
Right now you are just shooting as close in targets that aren't doing anything. If you start shooting longer distance and have to start moving those knobs, you will really see where your scope fails.
As viking said above, do a box text. I'd be very suprised if your scope returns you close to zero when all is said an done.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
try shooting yours to farther distances, the farthest you plan on ever. then do it with someone elses S&B. you will see. i dont have a $3k scope either, but i want one.
try shooting yours to farther distances, the farthest you plan on ever. then do it with someone elses S&B. you will see. i dont have a $3k scope either, but i want one.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
I understand completely that the better scopes are going to be much clearer then the BSA. I think the BSA like you said is ok. My point is if I can shoot a 1" group at 200yds, how much better can most people do with a much more expensive scope? I am sure if we get on out past 300 the more expensive scopes are going to really shine. I don't know about you guys but 300 is the most we can shoot at the ranges here and most all animal kills come well within that range.
I understand completely that the better scopes are going to be much clearer then the BSA. I think the BSA like you said is ok. My point is if I can shoot a 1" group at 200yds, how much better can most people do with a much more expensive scope? I am sure if we get on out past 300 the more expensive scopes are going to really shine. I don't know about you guys but 300 is the most we can shoot at the ranges here and most all animal kills come well within that range.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
My family (dad, brother and uncle) thought i was nuts for paying $1500 for a nightforce some years back then, we all went shooting right before hunting season... Granted its not a S&B but its a nice scope.. and compared to some of the glass they had on their rifles it was a huge difference... and I am saving up for a premier scope!! yes about 3k! but sometimes you really get what you pay for. just my 2 cents
My family (dad, brother and uncle) thought i was nuts for paying $1500 for a nightforce some years back then, we all went shooting right before hunting season... Granted its not a S&B but its a nice scope.. and compared to some of the glass they had on their rifles it was a huge difference... and I am saving up for a premier scope!! yes about 3k! but sometimes you really get what you pay for. just my 2 cents
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
when it craps out ,I got a Barska 6x24x60 you can move up to
be sure and save your reciept...when you claim a warranty on it !
when it craps out ,I got a Barska 6x24x60 you can move up to
be sure and save your reciept...when you claim a warranty on it !
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
You're preaching to the "must have $3000 scope" crowd here and they will defend their purchases fiercely so I wouldn't expect too friendly a response
On that note there are lots of scopes under $1000 that perform very well, you can spend $300-500 for an optic and get a very durable very solid unit.
Durability is a big issue, if the scope gets knocked around and abused will it hold zero. Can it handle low temps, humid/wet environments and abuse in those environments. Most never abuse their optics in this way.
Better glass means less eye strain, if you have to look through your scope for long periods of time it's nice not to end up with a migraine.
The repeatability of adjustments. The box test mentioned, basically you trace a box at a given distance by dialing in elevation and windage and fire shots at the corners and center of the box and see how close the scope returns to the center after all the adjustments. You can also check the adjustments themselves. Does 4" of scope adjustment really shift the impact 4" at the given distance. This is usually a big issue on the cheap scopes. If you aren't making adjustments to your zero it's not an issue.
Custom options, if you want a certain reticule, or other custom options you have to pay the big $'s to get them. Front focal plane for example is usually found on scopes costing over $1000 only the falcon menace being the solo exception I believe. If you want mildot reticle with mil adjustment knobs again the options are very limited and most costing over $1000. Zero stop features etc. are found again on scopes over $1000. It gets even more selective if you want a certain combination of these features.
Bottom line, it's not about "need" for 99% of people on here, it's about want and desire. Those few that use them for duty use are the exception. They need the most durable and repeatable optic they can get. The rest of us could easily get away with not spending more than $500 on an optic, but that doesn't mean we do
You're preaching to the "must have $3000 scope" crowd here and they will defend their purchases fiercely so I wouldn't expect too friendly a response
Durability is a big issue, if the scope gets knocked around and abused will it hold zero. Can it handle low temps, humid/wet environments and abuse in those environments. Most never abuse their optics in this way.
Better glass means less eye strain, if you have to look through your scope for long periods of time it's nice not to end up with a migraine.
The repeatability of adjustments. The box test mentioned, basically you trace a box at a given distance by dialing in elevation and windage and fire shots at the corners and center of the box and see how close the scope returns to the center after all the adjustments. You can also check the adjustments themselves. Does 4" of scope adjustment really shift the impact 4" at the given distance. This is usually a big issue on the cheap scopes. If you aren't making adjustments to your zero it's not an issue.
Custom options, if you want a certain reticule, or other custom options you have to pay the big $'s to get them. Front focal plane for example is usually found on scopes costing over $1000 only the falcon menace being the solo exception I believe. If you want mildot reticle with mil adjustment knobs again the options are very limited and most costing over $1000. Zero stop features etc. are found again on scopes over $1000. It gets even more selective if you want a certain combination of these features.
Bottom line, it's not about "need" for 99% of people on here, it's about want and desire. Those few that use them for duty use are the exception. They need the most durable and repeatable optic they can get. The rest of us could easily get away with not spending more than $500 on an optic, but that doesn't mean we do
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
Beyond the clarity of the glass, where higher end optics earn their keep is in consistency and repeatability of their adjustments. With higher-end scopes, if you want 10moa, then you dial 10moa worth and that is what you will get. Then you can dial it back down and it will track exactly to where you were before. The scope will do that time and time again.
Cheaper scopes, while may have the optical clarity, rarely have adjustments that are consistent and repeatable. They can work well enough to get zeroed but when you start dialing for your dope the don't track consistently (meaning you dial for 1/4moa and you get nothing, then you go one more click and you get 1")and they aren't as repeatable (meaning they won't return to the original setting consistently).
Out to 500yds there isn't too much drop to really crank on the knobs. Beyond that, to be able to shoot precisely, the consistent, repeatable scope adjustments become a necessity. 1000yds with a .308Win is about 36-38moa from a 100yd zero. That's about three full turns of elevation. Dial that up and then back down and see how close your 100yd zero is.
Do you need to spend $3K to get this?, No. But you probably need to spend at least about $4-500 at the lower end (SuperSniper exempted) to get something reliable.
Beyond the clarity of the glass, where higher end optics earn their keep is in consistency and repeatability of their adjustments. With higher-end scopes, if you want 10moa, then you dial 10moa worth and that is what you will get. Then you can dial it back down and it will track exactly to where you were before. The scope will do that time and time again.
Cheaper scopes, while may have the optical clarity, rarely have adjustments that are consistent and repeatable. They can work well enough to get zeroed but when you start dialing for your dope the don't track consistently (meaning you dial for 1/4moa and you get nothing, then you go one more click and you get 1")and they aren't as repeatable (meaning they won't return to the original setting consistently).
Out to 500yds there isn't too much drop to really crank on the knobs. Beyond that, to be able to shoot precisely, the consistent, repeatable scope adjustments become a necessity. 1000yds with a .308Win is about 36-38moa from a 100yd zero. That's about three full turns of elevation. Dial that up and then back down and see how close your 100yd zero is.
Do you need to spend $3K to get this?, No. But you probably need to spend at least about $4-500 at the lower end (SuperSniper exempted) to get something reliable.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand completely that the better scopes are going to be much clearer then the BSA. I think the BSA like you said is ok. My point is if I can shoot a 1" group at 200yds, how much better can most people do with a much more expensive scope? I am sure if we get on out past 300 the more expensive scopes are going to really shine. I don't know about you guys but 300 is the most we can shoot at the ranges here and most all animal kills come well within that range. </div></div>
More expensive scopes not only shine at longer distances they also start shine when you actually use your elevation and windage knobs on a regular basis as well as knocking them around a bit out in the field.
While your BSA does fine at short distances and holds zero fine while sitting in a bag in the closet and for the occasional adjustment, a more expensive scope is more robust and has repeatable knobs. What this means is that say I went to the range and engaged 20 different targets and ranges going from 100 to 1,000 yards and I dialed in the elevation for all of them I can depend on the higher end optics to be back at zero when I dial back down. And because it will return to zero can count on my adjustments being what I want instead of "Pretty close" to what I need.
Shooting in low light is another area where the high end glass will really shine.
Saying that a BSA is as good as a USO or NF becuase you can do 1" groups at 200 yards is about as smart as me saying that your BSA scope is worthless because plenty of people can get sub MOA groups at 200 yards with iron sights.
This isn't to say that everybody needs a high end piece of glass. But I know most wouldn't turn 'em down if they were given one!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand completely that the better scopes are going to be much clearer then the BSA. I think the BSA like you said is ok. My point is if I can shoot a 1" group at 200yds, how much better can most people do with a much more expensive scope? I am sure if we get on out past 300 the more expensive scopes are going to really shine. I don't know about you guys but 300 is the most we can shoot at the ranges here and most all animal kills come well within that range. </div></div>
More expensive scopes not only shine at longer distances they also start shine when you actually use your elevation and windage knobs on a regular basis as well as knocking them around a bit out in the field.
While your BSA does fine at short distances and holds zero fine while sitting in a bag in the closet and for the occasional adjustment, a more expensive scope is more robust and has repeatable knobs. What this means is that say I went to the range and engaged 20 different targets and ranges going from 100 to 1,000 yards and I dialed in the elevation for all of them I can depend on the higher end optics to be back at zero when I dial back down. And because it will return to zero can count on my adjustments being what I want instead of "Pretty close" to what I need.
Shooting in low light is another area where the high end glass will really shine.
Saying that a BSA is as good as a USO or NF becuase you can do 1" groups at 200 yards is about as smart as me saying that your BSA scope is worthless because plenty of people can get sub MOA groups at 200 yards with iron sights.
This isn't to say that everybody needs a high end piece of glass. But I know most wouldn't turn 'em down if they were given one!
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
(Bottom line, it's not about "need" for 99% of people on here, it's about want and desire. Those few that use them for duty use are the exception. They need the most durable and repeatable optic they can get. The rest of us could easily get away with not spending more than $500 on an optic, but that doesn't mean we do )
+1
Yery well explained ToddM
(Bottom line, it's not about "need" for 99% of people on here, it's about want and desire. Those few that use them for duty use are the exception. They need the most durable and repeatable optic they can get. The rest of us could easily get away with not spending more than $500 on an optic, but that doesn't mean we do )
+1
Yery well explained ToddM
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
my primary hunting rifle is a preston built surgeon .308. its topped with a 5-25 S&B PMII mil/mil. after working up my load, 155 scenar 45.5 grs. varget, F210M. i zeroed out the turrets and locked them down. that was nearly 3000 rounds ago in every kind of harsh environment you can imagine. that elevation turret has been up and down at least 1000 times and i have never had to re-zero it. they are clear, rugged and dependable. thats what you are paying for.
how about a 1" group at 400 meters? or .317 at 200 meters? 5 shots.ill stick with my schmidts.
my primary hunting rifle is a preston built surgeon .308. its topped with a 5-25 S&B PMII mil/mil. after working up my load, 155 scenar 45.5 grs. varget, F210M. i zeroed out the turrets and locked them down. that was nearly 3000 rounds ago in every kind of harsh environment you can imagine. that elevation turret has been up and down at least 1000 times and i have never had to re-zero it. they are clear, rugged and dependable. thats what you are paying for.
how about a 1" group at 400 meters? or .317 at 200 meters? 5 shots.ill stick with my schmidts.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Strickland, are you talking about the Swat Team Barska? </div></div>
No. These
This is what I use. There's a lot of truth in what ToddM says. I don't shoot enough at this point to justify a higher dollra scope NOW. Maybe later, just not now. I have shot these scopes since '01 and have had no problem.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Strickland, are you talking about the Swat Team Barska? </div></div>
No. These
This is what I use. There's a lot of truth in what ToddM says. I don't shoot enough at this point to justify a higher dollra scope NOW. Maybe later, just not now. I have shot these scopes since '01 and have had no problem.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
I have Counter Sniper scope (model Ninja) on my BB rifle (Tactical version), $200 altogether and no problems yet.
Don't give up to peer pressure.
I have Counter Sniper scope (model Ninja) on my BB rifle (Tactical version), $200 altogether and no problems yet.
Don't give up to peer pressure.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
I appreciate all the info. That's why I posted this, to learn. I have never tried shooting at all different distances with my side wheel and then returning to my 100yd zero and checking its accuracy. I will do this Wednesday and see how it goes. I now see another reason that I never thought of before to buy a better scope. Thanks for the input so far!
I appreciate all the info. That's why I posted this, to learn. I have never tried shooting at all different distances with my side wheel and then returning to my 100yd zero and checking its accuracy. I will do this Wednesday and see how it goes. I now see another reason that I never thought of before to buy a better scope. Thanks for the input so far!
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
good luck! glad to have you on board.
keep us up to speed on your testing.
good luck! glad to have you on board.
keep us up to speed on your testing.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
The pitcher is 1/2 empty so my tiping may get worst.
There are happy mediums between BSA and Schmidt.
I have ancient Unertls, Lymans, Kollmorgens and even Weavers that are far superior to any BSA as they were the among the best back in their day. They are well built, hold zero and are generally bulletproof. No they dont have the most modern coatings and some dont even have have click adjustments but they are as solid and reliable as a 30 year old well maintained pickup truck.
Next step up are scopes like Burris Fullfield tacticals, Nikon Monarchs or Leupold VX II & IIs etc. Many are available used on ebay at 20-30% savings.
These too are clear, bright, modern and have solid reputations.
I had a BSA 6-20 once, and above 12X it grayed out so bad it was worthless.
For $250-400 you can upgrade a lot and get a scope that will work when you move out your shooting distances
The pitcher is 1/2 empty so my tiping may get worst.
There are happy mediums between BSA and Schmidt.
I have ancient Unertls, Lymans, Kollmorgens and even Weavers that are far superior to any BSA as they were the among the best back in their day. They are well built, hold zero and are generally bulletproof. No they dont have the most modern coatings and some dont even have have click adjustments but they are as solid and reliable as a 30 year old well maintained pickup truck.
Next step up are scopes like Burris Fullfield tacticals, Nikon Monarchs or Leupold VX II & IIs etc. Many are available used on ebay at 20-30% savings.
These too are clear, bright, modern and have solid reputations.
I had a BSA 6-20 once, and above 12X it grayed out so bad it was worthless.
For $250-400 you can upgrade a lot and get a scope that will work when you move out your shooting distances
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
Turbo, has Boltripper would say fill out your profile
Turbo, has Boltripper would say fill out your profile
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
When your ready for the answer you honestly wont have to ask it.....pray it never comes.
When your ready for the answer you honestly wont have to ask it.....pray it never comes.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
Badd Kharma......you beat me to it. Bolt must be taking his afternoon nap
Badd Kharma......you beat me to it.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
Thats comparing a Buick to a BMW. They are two different things all together! You are never going to make very long shots with your cheap scopes, there is not enough elevation or even clarity needed at extended ranges. Plus the larger calibers will break your scope in just a few rounds. Leupold and NF scopes hold there value just like the rifle does. They are very easy to use and once you own one you will know why everyone here buys them! These scopes are almost bullets proof, I have read that the Night Force is!
Go ahead and treat yourself to a Night Force, then tell me why its so much $$$.
Thats comparing a Buick to a BMW. They are two different things all together! You are never going to make very long shots with your cheap scopes, there is not enough elevation or even clarity needed at extended ranges. Plus the larger calibers will break your scope in just a few rounds. Leupold and NF scopes hold there value just like the rifle does. They are very easy to use and once you own one you will know why everyone here buys them! These scopes are almost bullets proof, I have read that the Night Force is!
Go ahead and treat yourself to a Night Force, then tell me why its so much $$$.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
The SWFA super sniper is a good scope for the money.
Falcon makes a 10x and a 4-14x menace series scopes that are highly regarded for the cost $400 or so.
Nikon Monarch's are also a great deal for the $400-450 range but the buckmaster is also for the cost a great scope. 2.5-10 and 4-16x in mildots are nice scopes. Only 40" of adjustment on the 4-16x, 70" on 2.5-10
Burris Tac30 scopes, frankly I think their 3-9x40 version is a amazing scope for $250, 30mm tube, 80" adjustment, pretty good knobs. It's only downfall is the lack of a mildot reticule but their ballistic reticule is not bad. Their 4-14x has the mildot option but is more on the $450 range and has ~60" of adjustment.
Bushnell elite 3200 5-15x is a good scope, but limited adjustment range I think in the 35-40" range, however if you are not going out past 600-800 yards should be no problem.
The SWFA super sniper is a good scope for the money.
Falcon makes a 10x and a 4-14x menace series scopes that are highly regarded for the cost $400 or so.
Nikon Monarch's are also a great deal for the $400-450 range but the buckmaster is also for the cost a great scope. 2.5-10 and 4-16x in mildots are nice scopes. Only 40" of adjustment on the 4-16x, 70" on 2.5-10
Burris Tac30 scopes, frankly I think their 3-9x40 version is a amazing scope for $250, 30mm tube, 80" adjustment, pretty good knobs. It's only downfall is the lack of a mildot reticule but their ballistic reticule is not bad. Their 4-14x has the mildot option but is more on the $450 range and has ~60" of adjustment.
Bushnell elite 3200 5-15x is a good scope, but limited adjustment range I think in the 35-40" range, however if you are not going out past 600-800 yards should be no problem.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
So here is my last question. How in the hell does anyone see anything at 400yds with a 10 power scope? I mean my scope is a 32 power and I crank it all the way up at 200yds. I can understand if you are shooting at a bear at 3 or 400yds but 10 power for 400 or 500yds? Am I missing something here? I know my eyesight is great.....We shoot the little shoot and see targets that are about 5 or 6" in diameter.
So here is my last question. How in the hell does anyone see anything at 400yds with a 10 power scope? I mean my scope is a 32 power and I crank it all the way up at 200yds. I can understand if you are shooting at a bear at 3 or 400yds but 10 power for 400 or 500yds? Am I missing something here? I know my eyesight is great.....We shoot the little shoot and see targets that are about 5 or 6" in diameter.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
Better glass needs less power. More resolution. (clearer)
Better glass needs less power. More resolution. (clearer)
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
Wait until you start cranking in changes and it doesn't repeat the POI. When I make a change to "X" clicks up and "X" clicks right I want it there. Then when I return to zero, I want it there on the first shot. Not 4 shots later when the vibrations get the parts seated.
Repeatability has to be considered. If you never make a long shot or if you shoot close enough that "Kentucky windage" is all you need, then you don't need a more expensive scope.
Where's I sit my glass of Coke?
Wait until you start cranking in changes and it doesn't repeat the POI. When I make a change to "X" clicks up and "X" clicks right I want it there. Then when I return to zero, I want it there on the first shot. Not 4 shots later when the vibrations get the parts seated.
Repeatability has to be considered. If you never make a long shot or if you shoot close enough that "Kentucky windage" is all you need, then you don't need a more expensive scope.
Where's I sit my glass of Coke?
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
The BSA probably won't track good. More expensive scopes have better resolution making 10x easier to shoot with than your scope on 32x. Kinda HD versus a 70s TV picking up the local news with rabbit ears.
The BSA probably won't track good. More expensive scopes have better resolution making 10x easier to shoot with than your scope on 32x. Kinda HD versus a 70s TV picking up the local news with rabbit ears.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So here is my last question. How in the hell does anyone see anything at 400yds with a 10 power scope? I mean my scope is a 32 power and I crank it all the way up at 200yds.</div></div>
Did the light just go on?
Power doesn't mean high resolution. Crap glass is crap glass no matter if it's a 10x or 32x. I have no problem seeing and hitting a 20x30" steel plate at 800+ yards with my 4-14x Falcon and I would only consider that "serviceable" glass. My Tasco 26x is like looking through a milk glass in comparison.
You don't have to drop $1K + to get decent glass. You do if you want OUTSTANDING glass.
Now to really blow your mind, take that scope out at night and see if you can locate a target.
If you are close to southwestern Indiana come on up and I will let you see the huge different between $150 and $450 glass. Hopefully in a couple months I will be able to show you the difference between $450 and $2500 glass.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So here is my last question. How in the hell does anyone see anything at 400yds with a 10 power scope? I mean my scope is a 32 power and I crank it all the way up at 200yds.</div></div>
Did the light just go on?
Power doesn't mean high resolution. Crap glass is crap glass no matter if it's a 10x or 32x. I have no problem seeing and hitting a 20x30" steel plate at 800+ yards with my 4-14x Falcon and I would only consider that "serviceable" glass. My Tasco 26x is like looking through a milk glass in comparison.
You don't have to drop $1K + to get decent glass. You do if you want OUTSTANDING glass.
Now to really blow your mind, take that scope out at night and see if you can locate a target.
If you are close to southwestern Indiana come on up and I will let you see the huge different between $150 and $450 glass. Hopefully in a couple months I will be able to show you the difference between $450 and $2500 glass.
S
sno-man
Guest
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
barska spotting scope at young's is 40something X and i would have to say that at 1000 yards i can see hits 100 times better with my mark 4 at 10X.... so when you pay more you get more then just better glass.... you get something that works
barska spotting scope at young's is 40something X and i would have to say that at 1000 yards i can see hits 100 times better with my mark 4 at 10X.... so when you pay more you get more then just better glass.... you get something that works
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Filled in parts of it. Will have to work on the rest later. So would you guys recommend the SWFA SS's, Nikon Buckmasters, Burris Fullfields, or Bushnell Elite series? I have around $350 to spend </div></div>
You can find a used Leupold 3.5-10 VXIII 1" tube for $350. Then when you save another $129.99 you could send it to Leupold and have M1's put on it.
It's not top flight, but reliable and you have Leupolds warranty and customer service, which is worth alot IMO.
Lots of options for you, this is just one i thought i would mention.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Filled in parts of it. Will have to work on the rest later. So would you guys recommend the SWFA SS's, Nikon Buckmasters, Burris Fullfields, or Bushnell Elite series? I have around $350 to spend </div></div>
You can find a used Leupold 3.5-10 VXIII 1" tube for $350. Then when you save another $129.99 you could send it to Leupold and have M1's put on it.
It's not top flight, but reliable and you have Leupolds warranty and customer service, which is worth alot IMO.
Lots of options for you, this is just one i thought i would mention.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
OK. I am going to upgrade tomorrow. A buddy of mine wants my BSA. I think I am still going to shoot for something at least 16-20 power. Like I said, we shoot at 6" targets. the bullseye's are probably an inch in diameter.
OK. I am going to upgrade tomorrow. A buddy of mine wants my BSA. I think I am still going to shoot for something at least 16-20 power. Like I said, we shoot at 6" targets. the bullseye's are probably an inch in diameter.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
Don't get sold on the monster magnification, although it does have its application, BR, F-Class and some others. For 300yds or less IMO you don't need big X. I'm able to hold under 1/2 MOA @ 300yds with my .223 on 10X
Good luck and buy what you want!
Don't get sold on the monster magnification, although it does have its application, BR, F-Class and some others. For 300yds or less IMO you don't need big X. I'm able to hold under 1/2 MOA @ 300yds with my .223 on 10X
Good luck and buy what you want!
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
You kiddin'? This calls for firing up the grill! +1 Super Sniper 10x. I'll shoot against anything/body with high dollar glass.
You kiddin'? This calls for firing up the grill! +1 Super Sniper 10x. I'll shoot against anything/body with high dollar glass.
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
The differences between expensive glass and cheap glass is huge. I have both ends of the spectrum right now using a Super Sniper on my 223 and an S&B on my 308. Like I said, HUGE differences but they both work. Get decently cheap, and when you have the cash to go up, either use it for a second rifle, or sell it for just about the same you put into it.
I have read you need 1x power for each 100 you shoot (read 10x should get you to 1000).
Chad
The differences between expensive glass and cheap glass is huge. I have both ends of the spectrum right now using a Super Sniper on my 223 and an S&B on my 308. Like I said, HUGE differences but they both work. Get decently cheap, and when you have the cash to go up, either use it for a second rifle, or sell it for just about the same you put into it.
I have read you need 1x power for each 100 you shoot (read 10x should get you to 1000).
Chad
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like I said, we shoot at 6" targets. the bullseye's are probably an inch in diameter. </div></div>
At what range?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbochad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like I said, we shoot at 6" targets. the bullseye's are probably an inch in diameter. </div></div>
At what range?
Re: Why pay the big money when.......
The only point I am making is that shooting a 1" bullseye target at 200yds with a 10X scope seems very tough. Again, wouldn't the cross hairs cover up the target to where you couldn't even see the bullseye? When I put the BSA on 32 I can see the color of the bullseye in each section of my cross hairs. I can actually concentrate on the center of the bullseye. Could you do that with a quality 10x scope?
The only point I am making is that shooting a 1" bullseye target at 200yds with a 10X scope seems very tough. Again, wouldn't the cross hairs cover up the target to where you couldn't even see the bullseye? When I put the BSA on 32 I can see the color of the bullseye in each section of my cross hairs. I can actually concentrate on the center of the bullseye. Could you do that with a quality 10x scope?
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