Why the 6.5 PRC is Garbage!

Krob95

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    Anyways, will h1000 work well in a 6.5prc with 153's and 156's?
     
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    Krob95

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    Well I guess I need to find someone who wants 8lbs of h1000 for 8lbs of rl26 😂 or just build a 300PRC
     

    carbonbased

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    Oh I've been waiting to break out this reaction meme.

    @fclassparadise View attachment 7881531
    I see your Flush and raise…

    8517A5DB-7CE0-42A8-A902-E050D551FBF5.jpeg
     

    Hondo1

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    I sure wish the OP would jump back in and defend himself, entertainment value of this post is running low.
     
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    Mario1961

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    Bullets! Bullets! Bullets Basically it suffers from a lack of heavy strongly constructed controlled expansion heavy bullets. It is loaded with the same bullets as the 6.5CM. It is loaded with nothing but ELD bullets and XLD bullets that basically suck at anything other than punching holes in paper at range. I am talking mostly about factory loaded ammo but even if you reload really good bullets and loading data for serious hunting is in short supply!

    The 6.5PRC does not on ballistic gel or on actual game animals out perform the the 6.5CM and that is down to bullets.

    In fact a lot of guides are starting to frown the 6.5CM or 6.5PRC for Elk and larger. The 6.5 PRC is not of much use for PRS which was it's orignal design goals. Bit they wasted time and money to design it so they had to bring it market. It is comical that a lot of OTS rifles are 2+1 which is almost funny. I get it seldom can you actual use more than 2 shot when hunting since the first shot is the best shot and a fast 2nd follow up shot is often all you get but lets be real 2+1. Either the person that designed the cartridge is an idiot or all the OEM's not willing to redesign their actions are idiots you decide.

    Let the flame wars begin! LOL

    Only thing dumber is the idea that short actions are more accurate, stiffer, faster than long actions and then designing cartridges and throats that will not tolerate long heavy ELD bullets that all align with COAL and available magazine length! Genius!

    Anyone want to talk publicly about the lack of bottom metal on Ruger American and Savage Apex and AXIS and so many other rifles making upgrading the rifle difficult or impossible?

    Anyone want to talk about how stupid it is to think that short action's are stiffer, faster or more accurate than standard length actions, medium length actions or magnum actions?

    Let's talk publicly about all the stupid mis-information, half trusts and lies that the industry repeats to us with ZERO scientific studies, engineering studies or facts?

    If short actions are so accurate why don't snipers and bench rest shooters all shoot cannon actions, rolling blocks, falling blocks and the like?

    How stupid is it to think that taking a well made steel barrel and removing a ton of metal and wrapping it in carbon some how makes it more accurate or absolutely stiffer? If I take an ER Shaw or Green Mountain Barrel and remove a ton of metal and wrap it in carbon fiber does it magickly improve the barrels accuracy?

    Let's talk about some real stuff instead of group hugs, group think and getting a pat on the back from like minded people seeking peer approval!

    I only respect facts, science and engineering! Anything less is opinion and of not much more value than CNN opinions. Let's see if anyone in industry has any science or engineering they publish. I am guessing not since all the experts have opinions but will not share how they arrived at those opinions with actual science! Let see if this site is any different than all the rest???

    Cheers to all my fellow shooters at the mercy of garbage information, un-supported "expert opinion" and marketing!
    Is it a perfect cartridge ? No. Right now it is damn near impossible to buy brass for it or even factory cartridges. You bring up some interesting points, In the end only time will tell if the 6.5 PRC has staying power or goes the way of the DODO. I have a Savage Ultra light with a Proof Research Barrel in 6.5 PRC . It is a tack driver and with the Area 419 Brake on it its a pleasure to shoot. In the end for me its all about having fun and experimenting with this Caliber and working up different loads. Anyway, interesting post and lots of different views are sure to follow!
     

    Grant77

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    Bullets! Bullets! Bullets Basically it suffers from a lack of heavy strongly constructed controlled expansion heavy bullets. It is loaded with the same bullets as the 6.5CM. It is loaded with nothing but ELD bullets and XLD bullets that basically suck at anything other than punching holes in paper at range. I am talking mostly about factory loaded ammo but even if you reload really good bullets and loading data for serious hunting is in short supply!

    The 6.5PRC does not on ballistic gel or on actual game animals out perform the the 6.5CM and that is down to bullets.

    In fact a lot of guides are starting to frown the 6.5CM or 6.5PRC for Elk and larger. The 6.5 PRC is not of much use for PRS which was it's orignal design goals. Bit they wasted time and money to design it so they had to bring it market. It is comical that a lot of OTS rifles are 2+1 which is almost funny. I get it seldom can you actual use more than 2 shot when hunting since the first shot is the best shot and a fast 2nd follow up shot is often all you get but lets be real 2+1. Either the person that designed the cartridge is an idiot or all the OEM's not willing to redesign their actions are idiots you decide.

    Let the flame wars begin! LOL

    Only thing dumber is the idea that short actions are more accurate, stiffer, faster than long actions and then designing cartridges and throats that will not tolerate long heavy ELD bullets that all align with COAL and available magazine length! Genius!

    Anyone want to talk publicly about the lack of bottom metal on Ruger American and Savage Apex and AXIS and so many other rifles making upgrading the rifle difficult or impossible?

    Anyone want to talk about how stupid it is to think that short action's are stiffer, faster or more accurate than standard length actions, medium length actions or magnum actions?

    Let's talk publicly about all the stupid mis-information, half trusts and lies that the industry repeats to us with ZERO scientific studies, engineering studies or facts?

    If short actions are so accurate why don't snipers and bench rest shooters all shoot cannon actions, rolling blocks, falling blocks and the like?

    How stupid is it to think that taking a well made steel barrel and removing a ton of metal and wrapping it in carbon some how makes it more accurate or absolutely stiffer? If I take an ER Shaw or Green Mountain Barrel and remove a ton of metal and wrap it in carbon fiber does it magickly improve the barrels accuracy?

    Let's talk about some real stuff instead of group hugs, group think and getting a pat on the back from like minded people seeking peer approval!

    I only respect facts, science and engineering! Anything less is opinion and of not much more value than CNN opinions. Let's see if anyone in industry has any science or engineering they publish. I am guessing not since all the experts have opinions but will not share how they arrived at those opinions with actual science! Let see if this site is any different than all the rest???

    Cheers to all my fellow shooters at the mercy of garbage information, un-supported "expert opinion" and marketing!
    Best coked-up rant I’ve seen all day
     
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    Jdubya

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    Check out the Berger 156 grain Elite Hunter. I'm using VV N560 to push them right at 2840. Substantially more energy than the 6.5 CM loaded with 143's. Have seen a number of 1.5"+ exit wounds and most Texas white tails I've shot drop within 5 paces. That combo has averaged about .5" 3 shot groups at 100 yds. The same bullet loaded w H1000 (which I can't find anymore) was even tighter than that.
     

    Gtscotty

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    Needs more CAPS and less punctuation to be in the conversation for best all-time troll posts.

    I don't know, as a connoisseur of fine trolling and shit-posting, I found this gem, just delightful. He hit all the high points of an strong troll and even threw in a complaint about the lack of aftermarket parts availability for Walmart blister-pack guns. Class act, 8.5/10.
     

    William Weddendorf

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    Well, I am not going to bad mouth someone who questions shooting elk with a 6.5 CM. Maybe y’all with your infinite skill can kill an elk with one shot, but neophytes reading your posts are undoubtedly having to put multiple rounds into animals to finally kill them.
     

    Sureshot300norma

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    The funny thing is this gentleman is correct and I mean on almost everything he stated. First the military has tested the 6.5 in different cartridges for quite some time..Results are that they tend to pencil through the target at lower velocity,so long distance. Then scientific research at ballistic studies revealed the same thing , even with the bullets available to the public , expanding ,etc. Carbon barrels walk when they get hot due to the insulating properties of carbon fiber and the large amounts of metal removed before the wrap. A steel blank that has stress induced ,large amounts of material removed after the bore was cut is a engineering ,No do not do that. Last year's NF ELR match pretty much told the story on 6.5's. Around 48 percent of the shooters used a 6.5 and zero were in the top 50 spots.( Excuse me if I'm off a little ,but it's not by much) So all of the negative commentary are from people that have no real data to support the want and need for 6.5 cartridges. An action is an action if the metallurgy is proper and the machining is done correctly. Is a short action more accurate, No. I see no need for them with cartridges like the 308. There are so many options of really great bullets that bring the cartridge up to modern standards ,like using the Berger 200-20x in the cartridge. You have to single feed them to take advantage of the modern bullets in a short action. I would recommend the build be on on a medium length action at the least and personally I would do a long action.
     
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    SupressYourself

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    ...So all of the negative commentary are from people that have no real data to support the want and need for 6.5 cartridges...

    Holy shit, so every 6.5 cartridge from the Grendel to the Weatherby magnums are useless across every shooting discipline?
    Are you and the OP related, or did you share a room at retard school?
     
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    CMP70306

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    The funny thing is this gentleman is correct and I mean on almost everything he stated. First the military has tested the 6.5 in different cartridges for quite some time..Results are that they tend to pencil through the target at lower velocity,so long distance. Then scientific research at ballistic studies revealed the same thing , even with the bullets available to the public , expanding ,etc. Carbon barrels walk when they get hot due to the insulating properties of carbon fiber and the large amounts of metal removed before the wrap. A steel blank that has stress induced ,large amounts of material removed after the bore was cut is a engineering ,No do not do that. Last year's NF ELR match pretty much told the story on 6.5's. Around 48 percent of the shooters used a 6.5 and zero were in the top 50 spots.( Excuse me if I'm off a little ,but it's not by much) So all of the negative commentary are from people that have no real data to support the want and need for 6.5 cartridges. An action is an action if the metallurgy is proper and the machining is done correctly. Is a short action more accurate, No. I see no need for them with cartridges like the 308. There are so many options of really great bullets that bring the cartridge up to modern standards ,like using the Berger 200-20x in the cartridge. You have to single feed them to take advantage of the modern bullets in a short action. I would recommend the build be on on a medium length action at the least and personally I would do a long action.

    6.5s pencil compared to what? A .308 will generally run out of velocity to expand under 600 yards using the 200-20x while the 6.5 PRC with the 147gr ELDm will make it to 900 yards with enough velocity to expand. Is a penciling 308 at 700 more effective than an expanding 6.5 at the same range?

    A large contour steel barrel is also double the weight of a carbon barrel, not an issue for the range but a giant pain in the ass while hunting which is where carbon barrels typically shine. Also I haven’t noticed really any shifting in my rifles when following a normal course of fire, maybe it might be an issue on mag dump stages but a normal 10 round string doesn’t seem to cause an issue.

    Couldn’t find the 2021 NF ELR match results but I did find the 2020 results and 3 of the top 10 were using 6.5s, two SAUM and a 6.5x47 Lapua. As for the top 50 well see for yourself below.
    7CB0B856-8D38-4CB9-9E38-A989322D5E96.jpeg


    As for the .308 in a long action why in the world would you possibly bother with that? If you’re loading the 200-20x long enough to require a long action why not step up to the 300 mags and launch the same bullets 400 fps faster?
     
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    M4guru

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    Forgot this banger for the OP:

    6FB67158-9A50-48A8-8D1B-BB1DE7E598AD.gif




    I have absolutely grenaded a couple dozen big game animals with factory Hornady 143ELD-X PRC FWIW . 3011FPS out of a 24" Proof Tikka prefit once it settled in.
     

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    carbonbased

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    View attachment 7883225660-something yard on a quartering-toward antelope. Doesn’t expand my ass. I process my own animals so I get to CSI them bitches.
    Adding the crinkle-cut puff denoting the presence of pubes was a master stroke.

    <bowing low>

    Although for maximum comedic effect, you could’ve made the peen more choad-like, one supposes. Still, no demerits. Bravo sir, bravo!
     

    Mike Casselton

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    Well, I am not going to bad mouth someone who questions shooting elk with a 6.5 CM. Maybe y’all with your infinite skill can kill an elk with one shot, but neophytes reading your posts are undoubtedly having to put multiple rounds into animals to finally kill them.

    Maybe they just suck at shooting...
     
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    wvfarrier

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    I wonder, for hunting, if a hard cast gas check or powdercoated projectile (say 20-22 BHN) would be a slammer out of the 6.5 PRC or not??? 🤔
     

    CMP70306

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    I wonder, for hunting, if a hard cast gas check or powdercoated projectile (say 20-22 BHN) would be a slammer out of the 6.5 PRC or not??? 🤔
    Bullet can’t survive the speed to make the PRC worth it, the 6.5 Carcano is what you are looking for.
     

    Sniperwannabee

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    Where is the science and engineering at university level or higher supporting short actions are faster to cycle, stiffer or more accurate? If it is not published and peer reviewed it utter garbage!

    I am almost 49 years old. I learned to shoot at Ft. Benning Ga. My dad was career military and the Elite of the Elite in the U.S. Army for 23 years. In his 50's they were trying to get him to return just for training. He spent the most time in Mechanized Infantry and was one of the First NCO's brought in on the Bradley Fighting Vehicles. He dealt with congress especialy Senator Dole and Nunn. He was with the Bradley Net Team and designed the Bradley Master Gunner Program and UCOFT training program. He reviewed and revised at the Army's request many of the training programs he was also a Drill Sargent, Master Trainer and retired as an E9. School of America and the War Room at Building 4.

    I was taught to shoot and reload by the USAMTU at Benning in middle school 1985-1988 while attending Faith Middle School at Ft. Benning! Everyone in my sphere of influence was the best of the best. Before that I was taught to shoot by my Dad and by Troop 2 in Columbus which all of the adult leadership was Vietnam Era Army Ranger of Green Beret.

    I say these things not to brag but because I am not talking out my rear and I do not have anything to gain by lying.

    The Army did not build their sniper rifle off of a short action. They wanted 300 Win Mag but bean conter forced them to use 7.62 NATO. I think the AMU was using 300-338 Win Mag at the time.

    I have been using and reloading 300 Win mage since 1995 because of my mentors influence and all the information at the time I was privy too. As a child growing up Army Ranger's, Army Green Beret and the like with actual combat experience were as plentiful at my house each weekend for BBQ and for Holidays as fly's on poop!

    I rechambered my first rifle in shop class in middle school. My grandfather bought me a M1 Carbine in elementary school that was mint at a pawn shop for $50.

    I shot Palma with a reworked Mauser and shot X-Course with the same rifle and Silhouette starting in 1985 with iron sights.

    I absolutely love and hate where the industry, gun rags and so called experts have taken the hobby!

    Where is the well documented trust, science and engineering?


    Enjoy 😊
     

    CMP70306

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    What would be the point of downgrading in 6.5mm from 6.5 PRC to 6.5CM?

    If you are going to stay in 6.5mm going even smaller to 6.5 Grendel might be more fun. People make bolt guns and gas guns in 6.5 Grendel.

    In the real world not punching paper talking about effect on game animals the extra paper punching performance of the 6.5 PRC does nothing for you over the 6.5CM when using identical weight, brand and bullet type. This is especially true with Hornady loaded ammo. DO not take my word for it backfire TV has results from African Safari , from ballistics gel and I think Elk hunts in the USA. This mirrors my experience with various 6.5mm cartridges from fairly fast magnum level performers to 260 Remington. So this was not much of a surprise to me.

    I own 260 Rem and 6.5CM both bolt guns that said if I owned a rifle in 6.5 PRC I would not do either of the previous cartridges. My PRS gas gun is in 6.5 Grendel. Having a 6.5 Grendel on an AR platform is the same sort of fun as a 10/22 with a lot more power and performance though than a 22LR. No recoil but I always run it with a break. It makes for a handy deer and coyote cartridge especialy if you hunt a lot of running game and need a fast follow up shot on running game. I never lose sight picture due to recoil. I am running close to DCM barrel profile and break so no real muzzle rise. I do not recall the barrel specifications. I had the barrel cut to my specifications at the time and I do not recall what they were off hand too many rifles and barrels. The 6.5 Grendel is so much fun and a totally different beast than the 6.5 PRC. Barrel life is incredible! I would not skimp on the barrel when you need or decide rather to re-barrel it will last forever. Think of it like a 30BR in terms of barrel life which is to say it will out last you so getting the best barrel you can makes sense.

    That said people fail to appreciate a bolt action 22LR. If you can not shoot a 22LR accurately you just cant shoot and need to spend more time shooting. A nice bolt action 22LR can be so much fun if you really want to perfect wind reading!



    For the record I am enjoying a bottle of home made Blackberry wine 11.5% and very sweet. First wine I have had in 25 years due to sulphite allergies.

    But wait there’s more.
     

    clark33

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    This guys a troll but..... has worked great at range for me and few others I know. But I'm no scientist and my dad isn't a 23 year Mech Inf vet so I'll fuck right off

    510yds 147ELDM
    IMG_5045.jpg

    630yds 147ELDM
    IMG_4131.jpg
     

    Aftermath

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    They are whacking moose in AK with the 6.5 so bigger is not always better
    During my time in BushAK, I witnessed several dozen moose taken with AR-15's and mini-14's using surplus FMJ ammo.
     

    FuhQ

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    6.5s pencil compared to what? A .308 will generally run out of velocity to expand under 600 yards using the 200-20x while the 6.5 PRC with the 147gr ELDm will make it to 900 yards with enough velocity to expand. Is a penciling 308 at 700 more effective than an expanding 6.5 at the same range?

    A large contour steel barrel is also double the weight of a carbon barrel, not an issue for the range but a giant pain in the ass while hunting which is where carbon barrels typically shine. Also I haven’t noticed really any shifting in my rifles when following a normal course of fire, maybe it might be an issue on mag dump stages but a normal 10 round string doesn’t seem to cause an issue.

    Couldn’t find the 2021 NF ELR match results but I did find the 2020 results and 3 of the top 10 were using 6.5s, two SAUM and a 6.5x47 Lapua. As for the top 50 well see for yourself below.
    View attachment 7883176

    As for the .308 in a long action why in the world would you possibly bother with that? If you’re loading the 200-20x long enough to require a long action why not step up to the 300 mags and launch the same bullets 400 fps faster?
    I'd have to say... I bet the .251" caliber is without a doubt the least popular... I'd even be willing to bet that less than .257% of people shoot it. 🤣😂🤣
     

    762 ULTRAMAGA

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    You know how you know you're over the target?
    Just read through the responses..
    There is a massive amount of hype around the 6.5 PRC (and 6.5s in general), this from a long time 6.5 shooter.
     

    The D

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    You know how you know you're over the target?
    Just read through the responses..
    There is a massive amount of hype around the 6.5 PRC (and 6.5s in general), this from a long time 6.5 shooter.
    Hey man, there’s hype around every cartridge from the groups of people who have hitched their wagons to them. There’s nothing wrong with any cartridge or being a fanboi. The only time there’s a problem is when someone chooses the wrong tool for the wrong job
     

    Accidic

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    Many of the coppers and the swift A-Frame would be good in the PRC I would think. That said, for my purposes both it and the SA platform in general are a waste. They may be stiffer but you'd pretty much have to work at making it that way or spend a good amount of $$$. My last two do the job they were built for extremely well as LAs and to date I've yet to have a need that shows any benefit of my SAs over them.
     

    clark33

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    Holy shit man, make another account to champion long actions... no one gives a shit
     
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