Range Report Why, there IS a ballistic app for Windows Phone!

[azimutha]

An updated version is now available @ http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/apps/a66bca34-27be-4ae1-a3be-0fb451c8486a or via the Marketplace app on your phone (search on "ballistica").

Ballistica is optimized for the small screen, touch and Windows Phone navigation. It is designed to be a fast, friendly app, particularly for field use and lightning quick firing solutions. The trial version will only save current ballistics profile or allow the user to return to a default profile. The paid version allows saving multiple profiles.

For those of you who don't have a Windows Phone but are either thinking about getting one or are just interested in an alternative take on the crusty, trusty ballistics calculator check out the manual:

http://apps.stonetip.com/ballistica_manual_v1.1.pdf

 

[BALLISTIC]

Re: Why, there IS a ballistic app for Windows Phone!

But, who uses a Windows based phone...?

 

[thezoltar]

Re: Why, there IS a ballistic app for Windows Phone!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BALLISTIC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But, who uses a Windows based phone...? </div></div>

I do. I've been using them since Windows Phone 2002 came out. Most fun I've ever had with mobile devices, through all the generations. WP7 for me now.

Azimutha, thanks for the manual! Nice program, matches my former program for performance but your has a much nicer interface. Thanks for looking after us WP7 guys.

 

[dm1779]

Re: Why, there IS a ballistic app for Windows Phone!

I've got an iPhone and picked up Ballistic by Jonathan Zdziarski - Great application that allows you do to a vast array of custom loads, range logs, wind drift charts, ballistic charts, etc.. Been using it for a couple different rifles and loads and has worrked great.

 

[azimutha]

Re: Why, there IS a ballistic app for Windows Phone!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DM.Oakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got an iPhone and picked up Ballistic by Jonathan Zdziarski - Great application that allows you do to a vast array of custom loads, range logs, wind drift charts, ballistic charts, etc.. Been using it for a couple different rifles and loads and has worrked great. </div></div>
FWIW, Ballistic for iOS was the first app besides JBM that I used (on an iPod Touch). It's pretty decent and got better after he licensed JBM's ballistic library. However, I always felt that the interface was too heavily influenced by the mouse+keyboard paradigm found in desktop computing.

The only feature I can think of that really took advantage of the iPhone/Touch was using the accelerometer to set the LOS angle. But even that is somewhat flawed for two reasons:

1) It beeps until it is done. Personally, I don't like sound when stalking a target like elk with sensitive ears.

2) It could have used haptic (vibratory) feedback instead. My app does that when starting and ending the LOS set. As soon as the user feels that initial buzz he knows he can aim the device. A second buzz confirms it is set.

I'm also not a fan of cramming everything possible into an app for a mobile device. While charts and databases are nice for analyzing ballistic potential, that's something I'd rather do on a larger screen and have never even seen the need to bring a laptop or tablet to the range. Also, my design goals with Ballistica were to make it accurate and fast to both load and provide a firing solution.

Performance-wise, when launching, resuming, loading a saved profile, calculating a firing solution for a single distance or a drop chart, everything runs faster than Ballistic does on an iPhone 4 (which is the latest iPhone I could compare it to).

Not to pick on Ballistic for iOS too much, but I also feel that the inclusion of both a Zero Atmosphere and a Current Atmosphere are a) unnecessary for anyone using a 100-200 yard zero and b) have caused more confusion than good results (judging by the number of posts on that subject on the 'Hide). Also, another source of confusion was the inclusion of an option to choose between "Army" or "USMC" mils. IMO, the author should have known that rifle scopes are based on the standard definition of a milliradian and left it at that.

Another nitpick is that, unlike with Android or Windows Phone, iOS users have to quit the app and go to iOS' global settings, find the app settings for that particular app and change settings there, rather than from within the app itself. Apple obvious does many things right since they have about $100 billion more in cash than I do, but that is still an odd thing.

 

[Leaddog]

Re: Why, there IS a ballistic app for Windows Phone!

Shooter for iPhone is the best ballistic app on my phone. $9.95 at iTunes.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Why, there IS a ballistic app for Windows Phone!

I think you're being hypercritical of another's product. And while I can't understand what on Earth is holding Jonathan from correcting his reverse wind input - I'd be the first to admit and remind that his app rocks, is very convenient to use, and established a good reputation. Your app appears nice from the screenshots you posted, so let it stand on its own.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2) It could have used haptic (vibratory) feedback instead. My app does that when starting and ending the LOS set. As soon as the user feels that initial buzz he knows he can aim the device. A second buzz confirms it is set.</div></div>
How does it work if the device is mounted in that KAC mount on the rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm also not a fan of cramming everything possible into an app for a mobile device. While charts and databases are nice for analyzing ballistic potential, that's something I'd rather do on a larger screen and have never even seen the need to bring a laptop or tablet to the range. Also, my design goals with Ballistica were to make it accurate and fast to both load and provide a firing solution.</div></div>
I am a huge fan of having everything at hand, <span style="font-weight: bold">particularly when it doesn't take any extra physical weight and space</span>. If I don't need something from that set - I don't use it, no big deal. The real problem is when I need something right here right now - and it's not there because either myself or somebody else found it cute to be "minimalistic" and not to include what he thought "unnecessary". <span style="font-style: italic">Example: my iPhone stores a large library of books. Do I need all of them when I travel? No. Is it more convenient to read from the iPhone screen than from a real book? No. But the convenience of having access to any of those books makes up for these inconveniences, and it costs me nothing to carry that library with me - so I keep them there.</span>

I find it exceedingly convenient that I can use that one small device for many purposes, in the field and in the hotel room, without the need to lag my 17" laptop. I can view charts, graphs, compare performance of different rounds, and the next morning use the very same device in the field in HUD mode to quickly figure the correction for different targets. And I'm very happy that Shooter also offers me these required capabilities.

Your design philosophy is different, and it's fine. Just don't try to make this difference into a virtue, and your tastes - into universal standard or measuring stick.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Performance-wise, when launching, resuming, loading a saved profile, calculating a firing solution for a single distance or a drop chart, everything runs faster than Ballistic does on an iPhone 4 (which is the latest iPhone I could compare it to).</div></div>
We've already been there in a different thread. It's nice to be faster - but since we're talking a few seconds most, who gives a damn? So your program is a second or two (or three!) faster, enjoy your programming skill. Ballistic FTE on 3GS is fast enough for me, thank you. I measured it on iPhone 3GS (the slowest): for 338 Lapua, including every correction and going to 2000m with 25m step - it took 4 seconds from the moment I pressed "Calculate Trajectory" till the complete table appeared on the screen.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to pick on Ballistic for iOS too much, but I also feel that the inclusion of both a Zero Atmosphere and a Current Atmosphere are a) unnecessary for anyone using a 100-200 yard zero and b) have caused more confusion than good results (judging by the number of posts on that subject on the 'Hide).</div></div>
I for one applaud the author for including that capability. If you don't need it - don't use it. Just pretend it's not there for you. And IMHO anybody who's confused by it shouldn't be let near the rifle until that confusion is removed.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Also, another source of confusion was the inclusion of an option to choose between "Army" or "USMC" mils. IMO, the author should have known that rifle scopes are based on the standard definition of a milliradian and left it at that.</div></div>
1. That's one of the very few options that I don't find useful. So I set it to USMC, pretend it's not there any more, and use the program happily every after.

2. Trigonometric definition of one "mil" - that coincidentally is the one USMC uses - is approximately 1/6283th of a circle (as circle is 2000pi milliradians), which is about 3.438 MOA. The Army however used to use 1 mil = 3.375 MOA (1/6400th of a circle). The shape and size of the dots of the Mil-Dot reticle also differed between the Army and USMC. Check here for some details (it also lists which scopes had Army dots, and which ones - USMC). <span style="font-style: italic">Caveat: the current Army manual uses 1 mil = 3.438 MOA ratio, thus adopting USMC/trigonometric standard, rather than their old one.</span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another nitpick is that, unlike with Android or Windows Phone, iOS users have to quit the app and go to iOS' global settings, find the app settings for that particular app and change settings there, rather than from within the app itself. Apple obvious does many things right since they have about $100 billion more in cash than I do, but that is still an odd thing. </div></div>
It's Apple design. Android doesn't have a separate "Setting" and allows config changes from within the applications. It isn't that one is better than the other, just different philosophies. I found that I can successfully use both, without complaining about either one.



You can pick nits all you want. In the end - you like Windows Phone, so you wrote a program for it to do what you think a ballisticomp should do. Enjoy. I wouldn't touch a Windows Phone with a 10-ft pole, so I use FTE on iPhone, and Shooter on Android (and KAC Bullet Flight on both). To each his own.

 

[jagged77]

Re: Why, there IS a ballistic app for Windows Phone!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Leaddog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooter for iPhone is the best ballistic app on my phone. $9.95 at iTunes. </div></div>

Agreed, Shooter is easier to use than Ballistic and costs less.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Why, there IS a ballistic app for Windows Phone!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jagged77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Leaddog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooter for iPhone is the best ballistic app on my phone. $9.95 at iTunes. </div></div>

Agreed, Shooter is easier to use than Ballistic and costs less.</div></div>
Yes and yes.

However there are a few things that Shooter doesn't do: it does not provide energy in the charts, and in the composite charts it does not allow comparing rounds of different calibers. In my usage pattern these are disadvantages, which don't stop me from enjoying this beautiful program. But I haven't retired FTE either.

And when I really need on-the-spot just the quickest number - I usually use KAC Bullet Flight.

 

[azimutha]

Re: Why, there IS a ballistic app for Windows Phone!

mouse07410,

First of all, thanks for your comments. Some, like whether a haptic buzz would work with a rifle-mounted device are food for thought. Secondly, to clarify, I did not spontaneously decide to pick on Ballistic or Mr. Zdziarski. I posted what I did in response to this post. It was mostly a "Well, if you're going to troll on this thread (DM.Oakes) then I'll respond.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DM.Oakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got an iPhone and picked up Ballistic by Jonathan Zdziarski - Great application that allows you do to a vast array of custom loads, range logs, wind drift charts, ballistic charts, etc.. Been using it for a couple different rifles and loads and has worrked great. </div></div>

For the record, other than using JBM in a web browser, Ballistic was the only other mobile device app I've ever cared to use. Especially once he added JBM's algorithms, which made it agree with the outputs from web JBM. So I've always been a fan of it. However, when I set out to write an app for a different platform I really wanted to take advantage of the device capabilities, namely touch gestures. I still feel that many apps (regardless of OS) are written with a mouse+keyboard mentality. I want to give users faster, more natural ways of inputting data while also confirming what they're seeing around them, e.g. rather than a number in a textbox (although that's still an option) why not let the user just drag a finger across the screen and rotate a wind indicator? That clearly shows them that the input is being set correctly.

Again, thanks for your comments and rock on with whatever makes you happy. Choice is a good thing.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Why, there IS a ballistic app for Windows Phone!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">mouse07410,

First of all, thanks for your comments. Some, like whether a haptic buzz would work with a rifle-mounted device are food for thought. Secondly, to clarify, I did not spontaneously decide to pick on Ballistic or Mr. Zdziarski. I posted what I did in response to this post. It was mostly a "Well, if you're going to troll on this thread (DM.Oakes) then I'll respond.</div></div>
Ah, that makes a diference. Thanks!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the record, other than using JBM in a web browser, Ballistic was the only other mobile device app I've ever cared to use.</div></div>
Since you're using WinPhone, and even wrote an app for it, I won't suggest taking a look at the Shooter application. Otherwise I would've.

And Bullet Flight IMHO embodies the "simple fast usable soldier's app". No extra bells or whistles - but very quick on taking the input and providing the correction.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Especially once he added JBM's algorithms, which made it agree with the outputs from web JBM. So I've always been a fan of it. However, when I set out to write an app for a different platform I really wanted to take advantage of the device capabilities, namely touch gestures. I still feel that many apps (regardless of OS) are written with a mouse+keyboard mentality. I want to give users faster, more natural ways of inputting data while also confirming what they're seeing around them, e.g. rather than a number in a textbox (although that's still an option) why not let the user just drag a finger across the screen and rotate a wind indicator? That clearly shows them that the input is being set correctly. </div></div>
Interestingly enough, Shooter allows you to do that with the wind input - for both direction and strength.

I'm not sure I'd agree with you on the "faster" part: if I'm intaking the wind data from Kestrel (getting both precise strength and direction), it may be faster to key in the numbers than to drag the pointer on the screen to make it match (perhaps my tactile reflexes aren't as perfect as they used to be

)... Again, having a choice is good.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again, thanks for your comments and rock on with whatever makes you happy. Choice is a good thing.</div></div>
You're welcome, and yes it is!

I personally dislike Windows platforms and avoid them if an acceptable alternative exists, doesn't mean everybody else should.

 

[azimutha]

Re: Why, there IS a ballistic app for Windows Phone!

I'd really like to try Shooter out. Unfortunately, my Touch doesn't support a recent enough version of iOS.

Regarding getting things like weather-related data, it seems to me that the fastest would be to have a Bluetooth-enabled Kestrel! I'm waiting for Microsoft to open up their Bluetooth API to 3rd-party developers. I always give users the option of using textboxes and the keypad to input data. There are definitely people who can type fast on a phone. I'm not one of them.

Re: Windows platforms. I used to despise Windows and Microsoft. I even wrote a hate mail letter to Bill Gates in 1997 complaining about their lack of innovation, awful UI and near-monopoly. Then, in early 2000 I moved to Seattle and thought no way am I going to go work for some little dotcom. The writing was already on the wall. So I went to work for the Beast...on one condition: I insisted on having a Mac on my desk. That was made easier by being under the same business line as the Mac BU (business unit).

After less than two years, my wife and I jumped at the opportunity to be back in Montana. I worked with a mixture of open-source and Microsoft products and have ever since. I no longer own a Mac and since Windows 7 haven't seen much of a reason to. And, yes, I had the use of a Mac with Snow Leopard on it, so I could compare. It took a long, long time but I think Microsoft has finally realized in the last 2-3 years that they need to provide the attention to detail that Apple does to the user experience.

Some people heartily dislike the Windows Metro "design language". I myself sometimes find it too plain. But it does work well and it shows that Microsoft finally has a design philosophy...something with a little soul to it. Apple has always had that. One of the reasons I don't care for Android is that - even with 4.0 - it feels like a cross between a bad copy of iOS and desktop Windows 95.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Why, there IS a ballistic app for Windows Phone!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd really like to try Shooter out. Unfortunately, my Touch doesn't support a recent enough version of iOS.</div></div>
You can try it on iTouch 4 (I've tested it), though you'll miss some very nice features. No idea about older iPods, probably it's a no-go.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regarding getting things like weather-related data, it seems to me that the fastest would be to have a Bluetooth-enabled Kestrel! I'm waiting for Microsoft to open up their Bluetooth API to 3rd-party developers.</div></div>
It's not a matter of just the API. The device must implement/realize the appropriate BT profile. I'm not an expert, but was told by those more experienced in this that there are many various BT "profiles". Apple implements quite a restrictive one, so there's no chance to, e.g., retrieve the weather data via BT from Kestrel to iPhone (Apple's fault).

That means - depending on what BT profile(s) Microsoft (or whoever) implemented on the WinPhone, you may or may not be able to use it to retrieve Kestrel data. And that got nothing to do with Kestrel. <span style="font-style: italic">I just realized that one of my acquaintances is an expert in WinPhone programming. I'll check with him, and if he tells me something of relevance to this thread, I'll post an update here.</span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I always give users the option of using textboxes and the keypad to input data. There are definitely people who can type fast on a phone. I'm not one of them. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Re: Windows platforms. I used to despise Windows and Microsoft. I even wrote a hate mail letter to Bill Gates in 1997 complaining about their lack of innovation, awful UI and near-monopoly. Then, in early 2000 I moved to Seattle and thought no way am I going to go work for some little dotcom. The writing was already on the wall. So I went to work for the Beast...on one condition: I insisted on having a Mac on my desk. That was made easier by being under the same business line as the Mac BU (business unit).

After less than two years, my wife and I jumped at the opportunity to be back in Montana. I worked with a mixture of open-source and Microsoft products and have ever since. I no longer own a Mac and since Windows 7 haven't seen much of a reason to. And, yes, I had the use of a Mac with Snow Leopard on it, so I could compare. It took a long, long time but I think Microsoft has finally realized in the last 2-3 years that they need to provide the attention to detail that Apple does to the user experience.</div></div>
I didn't say Windows platforms don't work (though Lord knows they have more than enough bugs

). I said I dislike them. It's personal. I can use them probably as well as any other platform.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some people heartily dislike the Windows Metro "design language". I myself sometimes find it too plain. But it does work well and it shows that Microsoft finally has a design philosophy...something with a little soul to it. Apple has always had that. One of the reasons I don't care for Android is that - even with 4.0 - it feels like a cross between a bad copy of iOS and desktop Windows 95.</div></div>

Yeah, "Metro" works, in theory at least (I haven't played with an implementation yet)...

Just a matter of preference.