Will 1:10 Twist Stabilize 190's at Subsonic?

[Glassaholic]

I have a bunch of Nosler CC 190 bullets and was thinking of trying to load them for subsonic out of my AT 20" .308 barrel with 1:10 twist. I shoot with suppressor and the last thing I want is a baffle strike, for those "in the know", will the 1:10 be able to stabilize a 190 at 950-1000 fps.

 

[Plinker 73]

My bolt 1:10 Remington 700 wont stabilize 200 gr sub sonic ammo in 308 if that is any help.
Rad

 

[Glassaholic]

My bolt 1:10 Remington 700 wont stabilize 200 gr sub sonic ammo in 308 if that is any help.
Rad

That is helpful, the 190 is close enough to 200 I doubt it will do any better

 

[Snuby642]

No
And if you decide to give it a try do not use a can.

That is why my rem 7oo 300blk is a 1/7 twist.

 

[Glassaholic]

Already off the radar, thanks

 

[Snuby642]

My son wanted me to load subs for his 308.
He also has 1/10

Subs out of my gas and bolt 300blk are fun and sometimes very useful.
Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[atepointer]

I shoot Brown Bear 7.62x39 subs 196g out of a 1:10 twist suppressed and they are insanely fun and accurate. Shot a raccoon b/t the eyes at 81 yards on first trip out turned his head into a canoe.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I shoot Brown Bear 7.62x39 subs 196g out of a 1:10 twist suppressed and they are insanely fun and accurate. Shot a raccoon b/t the eyes at 81 yards on first trip out turned his head into a canoe.

Are the bullets flat based or HPBT?

 

[atepointer]

fmj here are the specs

Bear Ammo 7.62x39mm 196 Grain Subsonic Full Metal Jacket 500 Round Case

Shop subsonic 7.62x39 ammunition from Bear Ammo today! Each case contains 500 rounds of Russian-made subsonic ammo. Order your subsonic 7.62x39 ammunition today at K-Var!

www.k-var.com

 

[DukeGSP]

I've got a savage 12 that I cut the barrel down to 16" I run a can and will stabilize 200 subs fine. I've only shot out to 100yrds with it I'm sure they turn into a dead dove shortly after but they cut paper like they're suppose to at 100...

 

[towerofpower93]

Seems you've already written it off, but you might just want to try them without the can on with a paper target set 3-5yds away and give it a go. The close paper target will help you see any indications of instability close to the muzzle.

My Rem 700 AAC-SD with 1:10 twist stabilized the 208gr AMAX just fine over a charge of Trailboss that netted me subsonic speeds in the ~1000fps range. These were loaded long to get them closer to the lands, but there were no issues with regards to stability and I ran a .338 can (my only direct threaded Ti bolt gun can) on the rifle without issue once I verified stability.

 

[Glassaholic]

Seems you've already written it off, but you might just want to try them without the can on with a paper target set 3-5yds away and give it a go. The close paper target will help you see any indications of instability close to the muzzle.

My Rem 700 AAC-SD with 1:10 twist stabilized the 208gr AMAX just fine over a charge of Trailboss that netted me subsonic speeds in the ~1000fps range. These were loaded long to get them closer to the lands, but there were no issues with regards to stability and I ran a .338 can (my only direct threaded Ti bolt gun can) on the rifle without issue once I verified stability.

Appreciate that and all the additional comments, sounds like the jury is still out on this one. I'll give it some more thought and possibly try out without suppressor, thanks all.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

With a 1:10 barrel, you may wat to try 150gr flat base and trailboss first.

 

[Huskydriver]

I stabilize 220 flat bases just fine out of a 1-10

 

[Snuby642]

At subsonic?

 

[Huskydriver]

At subsonic?

Yes suppressed with 12 gr a TB out of 20" tube...groups about 2" at 100 yards great.


Just because a calculator says it shouldn't stabilize doesn't mean it won't.

Shoot a couple with the can off to make sure they are going through the paper straight is all it takes

 

[towerofpower93]

At subsonic?

Here's my data from back in 2015 when my Rem 700 was sporting the 20" 1:10 twist threaded barrel.

All of these were put into a paper target ~10ft away and even the lowest/slowest charges left nice round holes.

To the OP, not to insult your intelligence, but with subs it's generally seen as good practice to work DOWN in charge weight, stopping when you get to your desired speed and checking to make sure you haven't stuck a bullet in the barrel between each shot. I did the latter by shooting these three round "groups" in a straight line down the target to make sure a new hole appeared every time I pulled the trigger.


Rem 700 AAC-SD
208gr Hornady AMAX
Range pick up R-P brass
Win LR primer
OAL: 3.063"/ to ogive: 2.330"

Trailboss 11.0gr

3rd group

Lo 1035
Hi 1052
Avg 1043
ES 17.1
SD 8.5

Trailboss 10.8gr

3rd group

Lo 974.2
Hi 1044
Avg 1021
ES 70.7
SD 40.4

Trailboss 10.6gr

3rd group

Lo 1014
Hi 1027
Avg 1023
ES 12.3
SD 7.5

Trailboss 10.4gr

3rd group

Lo 999.6
Hi 1030
Avg 1012
ES 30.6
SD 15.9

Trailboss 10.2gr

3rd group

Lo 994,9
Hi 1016
Avg 1002
ES 21.4
SD 12.2

Trailboss 10.0gr

3rd group

Lo 982.8
Hi 1003
Avg 991.6
ES 20.8
SD 10.9

 

[Snuby642]

I went by all the manufacturer's that warned about it with thier heavy subs.

But then I don't think any of them ran flat base.

So it appears I am wrong .

The 1/7 twist may be more accurate but 2 moa subs are not bad because several manufacturers ammo was a larger group than that in my blackout.

The extra 4 inches of tube probably helpes.

 

[towerofpower93]

I went by all the manufacturer's that warned about it with thier heavy subs.

But then I don't think any of them ran flat base.

So it appears I am wrong .

The 1/7 twist may be more accurate but 2 moa subs are not bad because several manufacturers ammo was a larger group than that in my blackout.

The extra 4 inches of tube probably helpes.

I think the faster twist rates on the 300BO compared to .308 stem from the round being designed from the get go to use the 240gr SMK at subsonic velocities with even heavier/longer bullets being able to be stabilized by the 1:8 or 1:7 twist rates most barrel manufacturers were making. The 1:7 twist rate was just insurance for even longer bullets that might have been coming down the pike.

Most .308 bolt guns with the fast for caliber 1:10 twist were looking to stabilize the longish 185-200gr bullets, but doing so with longer barrels and supersonic performance in mind.

All of that to say the .308 loaded to subsonic velocities can still stabilize the long 200gr+ boat tail bullets, you just need to verify before sticking the can on the end.

 

[Glassaholic]

To the OP, not to insult your intelligence...

I'm not smart enough to know when my intelligence is insulted

On a more serious note, I appreciate your information, this is what I've done essentially with 300 BLK, but I've had so many issues with my 300BLK SBR that I'm thinking of converting it to 5.56 and just dealing with subsonic stuff in 308 so was trying to collect data on whether or not that is feasible and initially it wasn't looking good, but now it sounds like it's at least worth the effort. Since I have the primers, powder, bullets and brass just sitting here it may be a fun endeavor.

 

[towerofpower93]

I'm not smart enough to know when my intelligence is insulted

On a more serious note, I appreciate your information, this is what I've done essentially with 300 BLK, but I've had so many issues with my 300BLK SBR that I'm thinking of converting it to 5.56 and just dealing with subsonic stuff in 308 so was trying to collect data on whether or not that is feasible and initially it wasn't looking good, but now it sounds like it's at least worth the effort. Since I have the primers, powder, bullets and brass just sitting here it may be a fun endeavor.

Pretty much why I did it with mine. Had a couple boxes of AMAXs sitting around and some Trailboss collecting dust so decided to work up a load.

 

[Snuby642]

Imho

300blk
Cfeblk 12.1g
Hornady interlocks 220 rnfb

1/7 twist 16 inch barrel 1015fps in cold weather. Movie quiet.