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Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

tempy007

Private
Minuteman
Apr 19, 2009
22
0
46
IN
Greetings all, I am a former Marine and on active duty now with the National Guard in Iraq. Currently I'm a door gunner aboard a UH-60 Blackawk. Enough about me. I am thinking of building a replica Model 70 Sniper rifle pre M40. I can't find any info or pictures to help with my build, as I want to make it as close to the real thing as possible. Any help from you folks would be welcome. Thanks.


Also any pictures of past projects, or detailed pics of markings, optics that need to be used, finishes ect would be welcome. It would be nice to make this thread a source for other people who may want to do this type of rifle also.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

You will find this book very helpful on your quest.

One-Round War: USMC Scout-Snipers In Vietnam by Peter R. Senich
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Thanks Niles I have heard of this book, were can I get it.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

I got my copy from Amazon it has a good history of the winchester and remington rifles used durring Vietnam as well as other SWS.

this link should take you right to it.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Thanks for your help, just bought it. Look forward to reading it.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Has anyone bought one of these rifles, or built thier own. What would a good starting point be? Any type of M70 Pre 64 more sought after and in so being better to use for this project?
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Let me throw this out to you fella's. I'm abit torn between doing a M70 and a M40. I want a great shooting rifle that is on par with a modern tactical rifle, yet I want to stay clear of the current rash of space age long guns and build something with some class. Thats not to say the newer rifles are not classy, but I want something more vintage. Any suggestions would be welcome.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

an excellent compendium is the book that Mike lau published "the police and military sniper"
also you can find some of his work here....
http://www.texasbrigadearmory.com/

i have shot some of his vintage and replica vintage Carlos Hathcock era model 70 Unertl scoped rifles...it was pure sex !


 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Thanks Bolt, me and a fellow long gun shooter have been in a long discussion on the subject of M70 verse M40 and have reached an impass. Both of us have our thoughts, pro's and cons. I might add that I rebuild and restore old harleys and at the tender age of 32 find myself abit of a old school guy when it comes to bikes and guns. With that said I want to be able to keep pace with a modern .308 on the range and retain abit of that classic "sniper/tactical" rifle look yet stay true to my passion for all things vintage. That brings up a long debated question my roommate here in Iraq and I have been tossing around. What is a sniper rifle really?

Thanks again for your input it is much valued as I try to figure out which way to spend Uncle Sams money.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

remember...old school model 70's were 30.06 and had steel but-plates.....

several here will chime in as they own some really really nice sticks...the optics are crude by todays standards....but the go-to guy in this part of the world is mike Lau...there are others but he got a whole library that i have seen personally that will really blow your dress up...lots of institutional memory there....if you got a vintage receiver.....he can build exacting stuff...i have seen it and shot it, truely holding history in your hands...he got several guns in museums also
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Again Bolt I thanks for the input, this is helping me alot. I pose this question to you. Given what I have expressed an intrest in as far as a rifle goes which way would you go. M70 TBA or a period correct M40 built on the reissue Remington (tuned up of course) with the correct Redfield ect. At this time I leaning towards a correct M70 built on supplied parts to TBA. I am thinking that performance wise they will both be about the same, not sure since I have fired neither.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

I`ve got a pre `64 Model 70 bull gun in .30-06 that shoots just as well as my Remington M40 clone.

Just depends on personal preference as to which you would like best.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Something like this??


DSC01905.jpg
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Damn fine rifle. How does it shoot? Get any hairy eye balls when you pull it out at the range. I guess I should ask the question. Anyone give you shit for an "old rifle". I imgine a few shot and they quiet right up. Did you build it or have it done. Very nice stick brother.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

my thoughts are....if i got a toy...i want to take it out and play with it...although i collect..the collectibles are much to valuable to hazard abuse...so i would go with something like a m40 a1 ......
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

I understand that truly. I used to have a very nice 45ci Flathead that I restored and everyone told me I should garage it, but I put 2500 miles on it in one summer. Some of the best riding experience I had. Both good and bad. But that bike held its own against alot of newer bikes. Not as fast, leaked a bit of oil but was like a dependable clock.

Is it out the question to get one of these guns shooting well enough to shoot matches with it? I suppose I'm asking what type of accuracy should I expect from a M70. Will it hold its own or would I just be expecting too much from this type of rifle.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Nope, no hairy eye balls from shooting it to my knowledge. That's not mine, but a collector I know. She's a real M70 Sniper with a real USMC Sniper on it, and you see the original Micarta as well. She's locked away in a vault and the owner never takes shit, other than the usual "it's not real,"but everyone he shows it to has to wipe the drool away...

On the topic of how well the old ones shoot, as Bolt said, give Mike a call, or Connor @ celtic rifles a call (Connor worked with Mike until recently @ TBA and builds a mean M70 as well). I've shot with both them and their M70's hold MOA rather easily. Mike has one where you can drop a bullet down the barrel, and it'll rattle it's way through, (yeah, it's that shot out) and it STILL holds MOA.

 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Sounds like I'm talking to the right guys. I'm pretty well decided on doing an M70. I hope to make it a shooter and not so much a safe queen. I think ill start looking for a good pre 64 action or rifle. Are the Winchester M70 target rifles I see on Gunbroker from time to time more or less the M70 that the USMC was using and are they hard to come by?
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

If you want to go same as the real ones, you're looking for a pre war receiver, so those are a bit harder to come by. If you're looking to be correct, you need to start looking for one. If not, you can pick up a pre 64 receiver and it can be made to look like the pre war with some minor changes. Mike or Connor can help you with the specifics. The next thing that could be tricky is the barrel for them. You're either going to put a douglass on there, or try and find an early Winchester heavy barrel, which the correct tip diameter are a bit hard to come by as well.

 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

yeah, $2800 is a tad high to be honest, if you keep looking you can probably snag one around 1500...

also the stock is important too. you're looking for one that hasn't been messed with.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

The one in the auction has the target stock, not the sporter stock, so not correct for a M70 Sniper.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

search "pre war 70" and you'll get a bunch, some resonably priced in the $1500 - $1700 range.

 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

There is a pre war on gun broker Buy it now for 929.00

I have a action that is in the correct ser# range but is pitted really bad. Does anyone know where I can get it fixed if possible?
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

What is some good info on the M40 Rem, I have seen alot of stuff on the M70 but would like to know some more on the Remington. Anyone with pic's or links to builders. Thanks again for everyones input.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Anyone out there have pic's of a correct M40? I would like to see the optics. The same goes for the markings on both the M40 and the M70, want to know what I should be looking for in a gun to start a retro build on.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Remington is making there commemorative m40 reproduction available again this year sometime.

I'm not real familiar with 'em but itd be an easy and cheaper way to get one setup.

rem_m40_usmc.jpg
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remington is making there commemorative m40 reproduction available again this year sometime.

I'm not real familiar with 'em but itd be an easy and cheaper way to get one setup.

rem_m40_usmc.jpg
</div></div>



Anyone know the MSRP on this rifle?I am looking to get one.I already have the correct redfield scope and jr. bases.My old man had a mint remington 700 bdl in 308 from the 70's with a exact round count of 75 that he gave me for christmas.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

ones i've seen for sale recently have been around 1500
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Anyone know where they are for sale, haven't found any as of yet. Anyone out there build one of thier own, or know who I could contact about building a replica.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

I know a guy that has one of the replicas that i think he'd sell. PM me if you're interested.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

What type of Unertl scope was used on the USMC M70, I don't have my book yet and trying to find a correct scope has been a adventure.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

The one they actually used was an 8x combination target scope if i recall correctly, and it had all the USMC markings on it. Without putting up the big bucks you can try and find the commercial version usually for under 1,000 depending on condition.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tempy007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What type of Unertl scope was used on the USMC M70, I don't have my book yet and trying to find a correct scope has been a adventure. </div></div>
Unertl 1 1/4" Combination Target Scope, .75" tube diameter approximately 24" long 8x. These are what everyone seems to be after over on ebay, similar scopes can be found for less but the 1 1/4" all go for more money as it has the right look. These scopes were available for a long time from Unertl and were made in 8x, 10x, 12x, 14x and I think maybe even 16x. The best thing to find is the 8x of course, be advised that as you go higher in magnification on these the field of view gets considerably smaller. Original USMC marked scopes are worth a fortune and there are a lot of fakes out there. The 1 1/4" refers to the objective lens diameter measured at the glass and not the end of the sunshade, I have a 1" Unertl and the sunshade measures at 1 1/4".
DSC_3839.jpg
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Very helpful, thanks so much and great rifle. The one shown in the picture is what I'm looking for then? Or is that a 1"? You say fakes, I supposed that like anything people are faking the USMC, is there any way to tell a true USMC marked. Any pictures out there.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

The USMC ones have USMC Sniper stamped on them, and there is a known serial number range. Hard to duplicate perfectly...
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tempy007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is some good info on the M40 Rem</div></div>

I used one of the Remington USMC SSA Commemoratives as basis for my M40. The base and rings are part of a run of ~150 Marty at Badger Ordinance made that are repros of the original square shoulder Redfield M40 base.

M40a.jpg


The scope is the proper Redfield Accurange with the fine crosshair... instead of trying to paint it to look like one of the earlier issued OD anodized scopes... which never quite look like the originals... I opted to have it sprayed like the later issue flat black scopes (it was a gloss black scope). It turned out great.

M40b.jpg



The rifle shoots very well... .75 MOA or less with BH 175SMK Match...
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

The scope on the '03 in my photo is the 1" variety, these are only about 21" OAL. The correct 1 1/4" Unertl would extend out towards the muzzle end of the rifle a little bit farther.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Wilshire...very nice. You don't see many original or clone USMC 03A1 sniper types. I think more clones are of the 03A4 variety. Maybe due to Saving Private Ryan ... and although they are quite rare as well, there are some nice originals still around... for those with the cash.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

When doing a M40 on a new Remington are there markings that are replicated on the reciever and barrel that help it appear more like an original. As for the M70 is it the same way. I can see that starting with a M40 reissue might be easier. What I'm not sure is what to look for in a rifle to build a M70. Meaning what donar rifle do I search for.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tempy007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When doing a M40 on a new Remington are there markings that are replicated on the reciever and barrel that help it appear more like an original. As for the M70 is it the same way. I can see that starting with a M40 reissue might be easier. What I'm not sure is what to look for in a rifle to build a M70. Meaning what donar rifle do I search for. </div></div>
M40 should be a 6 digit serial numbered action, .473 bolt face and will need to be clip slotted to be really accurate. The original Remington built M40 rifles are stamped US aboue the serial number, the later replacement actions are apparently not US marked. As far as the M70 goes you need to find a pre '64 action for certain and preferably a pre WWII action but both will be correct, the pre WWII are more $$$ and harder to find. Most but not all will be either a .270 or an '06 which both have the same bolt face dimensions. The M70 rifles were not stampes US but many were marked with an engraver by hand US Property.
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The one in the auction has the target stock, not the sporter stock, so not correct for a M70 Sniper. </div></div>

M70's with factory target stocks (Marksman stocks) were also used by the USMC during Vietnam. Check your books.

Dave P
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tempy007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone know where they are for sale, haven't found any as of yet. Anyone out there build one of thier own, or know who I could contact about building a replica. </div></div>


http://www.impactguns.com/store/7283.html
^^^^^
right there
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave4201</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The one in the auction has the target stock, not the sporter stock, so not correct for a M70 Sniper. </div></div>

M70's with factory target stocks (Marksman stocks) were also used by the USMC during Vietnam. Check your books.

Dave P </div></div>

I didn't say they weren't, but the most common version was the sporter stock. A lot of other Misc rifles were used as well, but that doesn't make them the standard version...
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave4201</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The one in the auction has the target stock, not the sporter stock, so not correct for a M70 Sniper. </div></div>

M70's with factory target stocks (Marksman stocks) were also used by the USMC during Vietnam. Check your books.

Dave P </div></div>

I didn't say they weren't, but the most common version was the sporter stock. A lot of other Misc rifles were used as well, but that doesn't make them the standard version... </div></div>

Almost nothing about the USMC M70 snipers in Vietnam was "standard". They pulled the match rifles that they had on hand and used them.

The WWII guns were standard hunting style guns with fixed sights. The USMC later rebarreled them in the late 50's to early 60's to be match rifles. Some/most of them got factory barrels. Some were later rebarreled with Douglas tubes. Some of them kept the old sporter stocks that had the barrel channel hogged out the to fit. Some got new marksman stocks. There are a lot of photos with marksman stocks.

Most had 8x Unertls, some the 3-9 "Marine Sniper" scope and a few had 12x Lyman scope. I would not bet against some having redfield scopes at some point! Note that the Unertls had black anodized mounts. Not the silver ones shown on the 1903 in the photo above.

The short of it is that ether the hogged out sporter or marksman stock with a heavy barrel in '06 with a 8x Unertl is the most common "correct" setup.

Dave P
 
Re: Winchester Model 70 Marine Corps Sniper Rifle

Again thanks to all of you for assisting me. I am curious if anyone has pictures they would like to post of the marks and details of both rifles. I am not only trying to educate myself but also provide a thread for others that may be wanting to do a similar project. So glad I decided to post on this forum, you all know your stuff.