Winchester Model 70, whats wrong with them?

[ArmyJerry]

I own 2 Savage 10 FP (308,223), 1 Rem 700 (new 308 sps), and 2 Model 70 rifles, one a 30-06 Featherweight (My first personal rifle over 25 years old now) and one Model 70 in 300 WSM. The winchesters have the smoothest action and shoot quite well, the Savages were the most accurate out of the box, the Rem is good but needs work to match the other two brands on all levels. I often wonder why I dont see more on teh Model 70 rifles or the Savages vs the 700's. Am I missing something?

 

[LRJammer]

Re: Winchester Model 70, whats wrong with them?

I own three of the Win/FN model 70 rifles and they are excellent. The only drawback to them is the accessory parts market relative to the Remington and Savage. The parts are available, just not in as wide of a selection. In my opionion, they are vastly superior in every meaningful way to a model 700 and even some of the custom 700 clones.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: Winchester Model 70, whats wrong with them?

The primary reasons the M70/FN CRF is not more popular:

1. It is not currently used/issued by our armed forces. Veterans buy what they are familiar with. LE buys what the military buys. Wantobe's buy... you get the idea.

2. The actions are flat bottomed and cannot be trued with only a lathe but requires some mill work. The M700/clones & Savage are just cylinders and all operations can be done on a lathe.

3. Rebarreling a M70/FN is more involved because you have to cone the breech and cut the notch for the extractor. Again not as simple as a M700 or M98.

Otherwise IMO the M70/FN actions are superior to the M700, Savages. The old triggers are simple, reliable and can be tuned for a very nice break. I wish there was a "custom" M70 action for precision tactical rifle (solid top, integral picatinny rail, etc).

As for accessories/parts, there are enough for M70/FN actions but it's a "chicken or the egg" situation. If the actions become more popular then there will be more aftermarket, generally not the other way around.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Winchester Model 70, whats wrong with them?

Love my CRF FN SPR. Great action, especially for the short action, standard boltface cartridges now that FN has the TBM bottom metal.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Winchester Model 70, whats wrong with them?

All of my hunting rifles are Winchester Model 70s. Controlled round feeding, 3 position safeties, and great (hunting) factory triggers.

 

[Rhys]

Re: Winchester Model 70, whats wrong with them?

I really like my M70's. Truing up the actions is no different that doing the same to a 700. The only plans I have for future builds are based around M70's at this point.

 

[10generation]

Re: Winchester Model 70, whats wrong with them?

I've got a 700 "tactical" build in .260 Rem. Love the rifle. However, I'm building out my hunting rifles right now and its M70's all the way. Got a pre-64 .270 I inherited from my grandfather that shoots great and just bought a pre-war .257 bob. In addition to the quality of the action, I like the history and traditions around the model 70, the Rifleman's Rifle.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: Winchester Model 70, whats wrong with them?

The only reasons I bought a 700 is because any competent 'smith should be able to work on them and because they are less expensive to begin with. Now that I have a 700 my next rifle will be an M70 sporter in 30-06 and the rifle following that will be an M70 sporter in either 22-250 or 243. they will be dedicated hunting rifles and most likely be the ones passed down to any children I may have. I prefer the M70 action head and shoulders above the R700 action. I just wish it had all the aftermarket support...

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: Winchester Model 70, whats wrong with them?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRJammer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my opionion, they are vastly superior in every meaningful way to a model 700 and even some of the custom 700 clones. </div></div>

I'll give a +1 to the vastly superior part.

Also, even though there is more aftermarket support for the model 700, there is still plenty to choose from for the Winny.

 

[neeley205]

Re: Winchester Model 70, whats wrong with them?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRJammer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In my opionion, they are vastly superior in every meaningful way to a model 700 and even some of the custom 700 clones. </div></div>

Yes sir.

The main thing I see everyone say. . "get a 700, more aftermarket support". . yeah, because everyone tells every new guy to buy a 700. Fortunately, this is becoming more a thing of the past every day. Winchester, tikka and some others are taking their rightful place as some of the better non custom actions out there. They are starting to get decent aftermarket support as more people buck the "we do it that way because that's how we have always done it" mentality.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Winchester Model 70, whats wrong with them?

First, We gotta separate the various kinds of actions.

The pre-'64 actions were controlled round feed. I'm thinking from either some time in the '50's or right after WWII they went to the coned breech? My late 40's rebarreled to .257 Wby had a flat face. Maybe that was a 54/70 change?

Then there was the post '63 which were push round feed (PRF). Very much like a Rem 700 except a better extractor and safety.

Then for the WSM/WSSM's they had a controlled round push feed. Which I really like except it isn't as strong as the CRF or PRF.

And of course the post '94 push round feeds.

there used to be a lot of aftermarket parts for these rifles. That is until we got into the composite stock era. By that time, Win 70's were replaced by the Rem 700 crowd.

I have a CRF in .300 WSM, a CRPF in 25 WSSM, two PRF's one in 6mmAI and the other in .308 Norma. And one more PRF in .270 that will go out the door when the deal gets done. They all shoot very well. Definitelly within hunting accuracy for the hunters and well within target/tactical accuracy for those rifles.

 

[madppcs]

Ive got a Model 70 in 7mag being built by Phoenix custom Rifles. It should be ready soon. I cant wait to get it and put some glass on it and see what the ole winny can do!

 

[Blazin]

Real good thread, I've wondered the same thing about M70's because 20 years ago when I was a young lad shooting NRA Highpower it seemed M70's were preferred over any other bolt action.

 

[Blackbrush]

The 70 is the best factory/mass produced action in my opinion. The Montana 1999 is an improved version and the Dakota 76 is a vastly improved version. Chad Dixon has some good thoughts on this as well and he has been up close and personal with them as a gunmaker.

Having had many Dakota hunting rifles, I would love to build someday a tac rifle with likely a Murphy rail and some sort of DBM (if possible).

 

[2Shots]

I started shooting with my FN a couple years ago that has been rebarrelled to 260. I think they are a better platform than the 700's, integral lug, way stronger extractor, easy bolt release. But as others have said, lots of 700's out there and people are familiar, and aftermarket makers cater to the masses. I've seen many rifles lay down in adverse shooting conditions, wet, cold etc. Some of which are AI, surgeon, rem and so on. My FN/M70 shot through it all. Of course the guy pulling the trigger might need refining! But it wasn't for lack of a functioning weapon.

 

[elevendysixty]

I realize this post is a bit old, but I just stumbled across it today. I'm fairly new to the lr arena, but I had a heavy varmint barreled m70 308 that seemed to shoot reasonably well so I spent all my money on a scope and ran the rifle I had instead of buying into another project. Yesterday while doing load development I shot about a half dozen 1/2 moa 3 shot groups with 175smk's and 178hornady match bullets at 100 yds. I've had several first round hits on mini ipsics out to 700 and couldn't be much happier with a factory gun.
The aftermarket supply isn't near as plentiful as Remington or savage, but it exists, you just have to look longer for it. Nightforce makes bases for each receiver length, the big stock makers all do m70 inlets, the trigger is doable, and the 3 position safety is nice to lock the bold handle down.

 

[Niles Coyote]

My favorite 308 is a Winchester Stealth turned SPRish… 2720fps with 175’s in a factory barrel without pushing it isnt too shabby either.

Winchester needs to release a stealth in a 6.5mm bore with a 8-8.5 twist, team it up with the new mag from FHN or slightly change the action to except AICS mags and I think we’d be seeing a Winchester resurgence. Remington should too but they don’t seem to have a clue… Maybe I’ll hit the lottery one day and commission the development of both… and a 1-7 twist 223 and a 1-8 243 etc… call it the LR Match line, LOL

 

[groundhogbuster]

My favorite 308 is a Winchester Stealth turned SPRish… 2720fps with 175’s in a factory barrel without pushing it isnt too shabby either.

Winchester needs to release a stealth in a 6.5mm bore with a 8-8.5 twist, team it up with the new mag from FHN or slightly change the action to except AICS mags and I think we’d be seeing a Winchester resurgence. Remington should too but they don’t seem to have a clue… Maybe I’ll hit the lottery one day and commission the development of both… and a 1-7 twist 223 and a 1-8 243 etc… call it the LR Match line, LOL

+1 NC, I wouldn't know what to do if Winny or Remmy came out with a 223/1/7, 243/1/8, 6.5CM or 260 1/8, all heavy brrls. My 1/9.125 remmy loves the 105 AMAX, would be awesome to shove the 107 Hybrids from Berger. I guess we can keep dreaming though, their still using the same calculations on twist rate that they used 50yrs ago. Rock Creek made a test brrl I read in a magazine 1/8 in 30 cal, and I think a 1/4 as well, with awesome results. I have yet to see a bullet (good Match pill) over-stabilize yet. Today's pills are so much better than the projectiles 10yrs ago.

 

[diderr]

I've owned a custom built 700, but currently own a custom rifle built off a FN action. The pre-64 design is far superior. I just wish I could get Badger bottom metal for it.

 

[trigger643]

I've been well pleased with my FNH/Winchester M70 build.

 

[elevendysixty]

I've owned a custom built 700, but currently own a custom rifle built off a FN action. The pre-64 design is far superior. I just wish I could get Badger bottom metal for it.

I would have sworn I read somewhere that pt&g was going to release a dbm bottom metal for m70's either this month or next. I cant find where I read that at, and no mention on their website. I emailed them, but haven't heard back yet. I'll post here if/when I hear back.

 

[khallmark]

PT&G does have a stealth bm for M70 in the works. The website says July. I recently spoke to Dave Kiff and he said July may be optimistic but hopes they're available by end of August.

Kevin

 

[STR]

I own 15 rifles. Only one is a 70 varmint model. I bought it from a member here because its something you don't often see. Not caring so much about accuracy as I did to having something different. It came with a Leupold vari3 scope, so I gave it a try with some FGMM 168s. It shot as good as any custom rifle I have ever shot. 5 shot groups were consistently under 3/8 MOA. With me shooting, that's impressive for a rifle to do, especially with factory ammo. It has found a permanent home in my safe as one of the special ones. I truly believe that the Winchester actions are great actions with some features that surpass the 700.

 

[MosesTheTank]

I have a Win Custom Shop Mod 70 in 300WM and a Dakota 76 (same basic design) in 30/06. They are incredible rifles. And incredibly expensive. As stated repeatedly here, it's the expense and not so easy customizations that make them a little more scarce. I regret passing up a Kimber tactical in 308.

 

[hansonian]

I've got a Model 70 in .270WSM. I initially purchased it just for hunting but the more I shoot it the better I like it for a overall rifle. I have a buddy with a Rem 700 who wanted to trade and after shooting both I decided to stick with my Model 70.

I would like to find a better stock (mine came with the factory stealth stock) and if possible some sort of detachable mag. I've haven't looked that hard for a mag setup so there maybe one already out there in .270 WSM.

 

[SquarePizza]

I think the lack of aftermarket support hurts them the most (like the others have said). But that doesn't mean it cannot be done... rather its going to take work to do it.

Here is mine sitting in CDI bottom metal and a Joel Russo A3 walnut stock. http://i.imgur.com/x8Sms.jpg

 

[Steelhead]

PT&G does have a stealth bm for M70 in the works. The website says July. I recently spoke to Dave Kiff and he said July may be optimistic but hopes they're available by end of August.

Kevin

Where did you see this? I looked on their website and couldn't find it. I would be very interested in one for my Winchester Stealth!

 

[TexasGunTrustLawyer]

I am working on a m70 300 win mag build

 

[rcnpthfndr]

working on a 30-06 rig right now, waiting on my manners stock.

 

[mfast10]

Where did you see this? I looked on their website and couldn't find it. I would be very interested in one for my Winchester Stealth!

I would be interested too as I also have a Winchester Stealth and the factory DBM from FN is not cheap.

 

[The_FNG]

I'm looking at a cheap Mod 70 .223 WSSM to use as a base for a custom. Question time...Do the WSSM's have the same size barrel tenon as the WSM's? Is the action length the same as the WSM's? Lastly, do they take a regular Mod 70 inlet stock? Cheers.

 

[Engine 22]

The WSSM action is NOT the same length as a WSM. No, a WSSM action won't fit in a "regular" inlet. I assume you are speaking of a short action inlet instead of ??

 

[ArmyJerry]

I am looking for a new stock for my 30/07 featherweight, will rebarrel it as it has many thousand s of rounds through it and groups are starting to open up a little. That skinny assed barrel has been a bug buster for 25 years. Raised 3 sons on that rifle.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

I have two Win M70EWs as my preferred go-to hunting rifles. One is a 7mm RM while the other is a .30-06. They are both sub-MOA, totally reliable, SS and B&C Medalist stocks, fitted with Zeiss Conquest Rapid Z scopes and I have total confidence in both. I believe the FNH Winnies are the best yet produced with that marque. Now I also have 3 Rugers (.308, .270 and 6.5x55) that are also sub-MOA shooters and a Rem 700 XCR II set up in a B&C medalist sporter stock in .375 H&H and love them as well. It turns out that my Savage 116 FHSAK in .30-06 is my most consistent and accurate hunting rifle. I always have a tough choice when I hunt; I usually take my Win M70 EW in .30-06 and my Savage 116 using one as a primary and one as a back-up for deer and elk...and I know I can take home whatever I shoot at. I'll take my Win M70EW in 7mm when I go looking for Pronghorn and my Remmy when, as and if I head for our 49th state (I fish too and the have seen Alaskan Brown Bear during King Salmon season but they apparently prefer salmon to peeps). The tougher choice is what load to take...I love .30-06 with Barnes 168gr TTSX and Nosler 165gr AccuBond bullets over VV N550 and IMR 4895.

I'm guilty of TMI...sorry.

FH

 

[mark5pt56]

PT&G does have a stealth bm for M70 in the works. The website says July. I recently spoke to Dave Kiff and he said July may be optimistic but hopes they're available by end of August.

Kevin

Would this utilize the TBM magazines?

 

[JoshcBoucher]

Nothing is "wrong". They are great guns, and much "sought after". Shoot her, and be happy.

 

[ChuckN]

As a hunting rifle I find them hard to beat.

 

[BG_Bashar]

Would this utilize the TBM magazines?

No, PTG's M70 Stealth bottom metal will use AICS compatible mags. I check up regularly on this, as I have an FN PBR that I'd like to upgrade. On the upside, they're nearly finished prototyping their M70 bolts; something else I'm looking forward to. They should be in full production very soon.

 

[lw8]

I would be thrilled about decent bottom metal.

 

[Engine 22]

Might I suggest giving Manners Composite stocks a look? Check out their Extreme Hunter line.

Manners Composite Stocks

 

[kiff]

We are machining Winchester long and short Stealth detachable bottom metal now . Earl and I are tiring several mag box's for fit . These will be a direct bolt in configuration long and short . We will probably offer it at first with a AICS box if clearance will allow . So far so good with the out side fit we are working on the bolt to cartridge clearance and pick up spacing . We will get it soon and they will fit correctly and priced reasonable . I have folks putting in orders but I will not ship any unless they are perfect in stock fit and I don't want loose mags the fit must be tight with out rattles . If all else fails I will use Accurate Mag mags since we are becoming a distributor for them as well as Accuracy International parts. The one piece bolts are coming along fine and we have made a few . I will keep folks posted as we make the different Winchester part . Thanks Dave @ PTG

 

[texote]

Just bought a used m70, gonna see how it shoots.

 

[downhill]

Got a pre64 M70 in 308, clip slotted, match sights and set up for NRA Across the Course. Still take her out and run her against the "young ones". Can still place among the top with it. The round count is unknown but still holds the ten ring.

 

[Blackbrush]

I want a Stealth long Mr Kiff.... Gonna call today.

 

[ArmyJerry]

How do you get a hold of him?

I want a Stealth long Mr Kiff.... Gonna call today.

 

[Blackbrush]

Call PTG. They have a great staff and if one of them can't answer your questions, Dave himself can/will do so himself. I'm impressed by what they produce at very reasonable prices.

 

[Steelhead]

We are machining Winchester long and short Stealth detachable bottom metal now . Earl and I are tiring several mag box's for fit . These will be a direct bolt in configuration long and short . We will probably offer it at first with a AICS box if clearance will allow . So far so good with the out side fit we are working on the bolt to cartridge clearance and pick up spacing . We will get it soon and they will fit correctly and priced reasonable . I have folks putting in orders but I will not ship any unless they are perfect in stock fit and I don't want loose mags the fit must be tight with out rattles . If all else fails I will use Accurate Mag mags since we are becoming a distributor for them as well as Accuracy International parts. The one piece bolts are coming along fine and we have made a few . I will keep folks posted as we make the different Winchester part . Thanks Dave @ PTG

Please keep us informed. I have a Winchester Stealth in .308 that I would like to put a DBM on.

 

[Red_SC]

I think the lack of aftermarket support hurts them the most (like the others have said). But that doesn't mean it cannot be done... rather its going to take work to do it.

Here is mine sitting in CDI bottom metal and a Joel Russo A3 walnut stock.

I like that a lot. I have a .300 WM I need to restock and add DBM to, I wouldn't mind having it end up like that one.

 

[Niles Coyote]

These will be a direct bolt in configuration long and short .

Exactly what does direct bolt in mean... is that like drop in and go. I ask because I thought the size of the AICS mag (in the front at least) required some metal inletting to fit.

 

[mark5pt56]

Well, dang! Wish they would do a TBM one so no mods have to be made.

No, PTG's M70 Stealth bottom metal will use AICS compatible mags. I check up regularly on this, as I have an FN PBR that I'd like to upgrade. On the upside, they're nearly finished prototyping their M70 bolts; something else I'm looking forward to. They should be in full production very soon.