WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

[STA TACTICAL]

OK THE REASON WHY I NEEDED TO POST THIS IS BEACUSE I HAVE SEEN SVERAL GUYS ATTEMPT TO KNOW HOW TO CALL WIND BUT THEY DONT! IT TOOK ME NEARLY 2 YEARS TO FINALLY FIGURE OUT WIND! AND HOW IT WORKS I USE TO CARRY AWIND METER EVERY WHERE I WENT AND WOULD CALL WIND AND THEN TAKE IT OUT OF MY POCKET AND JUDGE IT THAT WAY DOING THIS STRATEGY REALLY HELPED ME CALL WIND ON THE SPOT AND WAS VERY ACCURATE IN DOING SO.... SO MY FIRST RULE IN CALLIING WIND IS LOOKING AT THE ELEMENTS THAT ARE AROUND YOU. LOOK AT THE LAYOUT OF THE LAND FOR EXAMPLE THINK OF A VALLEY IF GOD DECIDED TO FLOOD THE EARTH AGAIN WHICH WAY WOULD THE WATER TRAVEL THATS MOSTLY HOW THE WIND IS GOING TO TRAVEL!! NOT ONLY DO I USE THE LAY OF THE LAND BUT I ALSO LOOK AT BIRDS BEACUSE BIRDS USALLY FLY WITH THE WIND AND STRUGGLE WHEN THEY ARE GOING AGAINSNT IT ANYTHING I POSSIBLE CAN GET FOR MY WIND CALL AND A ACCURATE SHOT I USE!! I USE ADVANCED WIND CALL FORMULAS SUCH AS THE TH1 WIND FORMULA THAT IS THE BEST WIND FORMULA THAT YOU CAN CACULATE IN YOUR HEAD WITHIN 2 SECONDS AND PUT A ROUND DOWN RANGE!! AS I SAID IF YOU ARE HAVING TROUBLE CALLING WIND IT TAKES PRACTICE AND REMEMBER HUMBLE NESS IS THE KEY TO SUCESS IVE BEEN IN THE SNIPER COMMUNITY FOR SOME TIME NOW AND EVEN THOUGH YOUR A SNIPER IN THE MILITARY SERVICES AND YOU DONT WANT TO MESS UP SOMETIMES YOU REALLY HAVE TO ASK YOUR SELF IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING AT THE POINT OF TIME AND IF YOUR MESSED UP CORRECT IT!! SO WHEN YOU GO TO COMBAT YOUR TRAINING WILL BE A SUCCESS FOR YOUR MISSION THAT APPROACHES YOU.

 

[JCH]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

LAY OFF THE CAPS!!

 

[wallace11bravo]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!!

 

[Graham]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wallace11bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!! </div></div>I'm not sure I even know what we're talking about.

I see the opinion: That several people don't know how to call wind.

But where's the useful info?
How <span style="text-decoration: underline">do</span> you call wind?
How do you <span style="text-decoration: underline">use</span> the 'TH1' formula?
How does the formula work?
Why is it supposedly the 'best'?

BTW, I call wind in MPH and Mils.

 

[wallace11bravo]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

I use a similar training method with a kestrel. I practice by environmental indicators and "feel." However, environmental indicators are always preferred, as the wind speed at the firing position means all of jack shit. The wind that matters is between the barrel and the target, and can vary greatly from the firing position, such as when shooting into a canyon or near any type of windbreak. Environmental indicators can be grass, trees, flags, smoke, and my favorite for under ~8mph; mirage.

I use what was taught to me as the "British method." A reference of wind adjustments in mils for 10mph FV winds at 50 meter increments. Yes, I go by meters, so sue me.

Target at 500m= reference dictates 2.0mil adjustment at 10mph FV
Actual wind is 5 mph, half value

2.0mil x 0.5(actual wind speed) x 0.5 (wind value) = 0.5 mil hold

I shoot .308 175gr SMK, normally I hold for wind, but occasionally dial. The reference is derived from a ballistic calculator. This method has worked well for me thus far.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wallace11bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!! </div></div>

 

[JByrd]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

HOLLA!!!!!

 

[STA TACTICAL]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

Sorry for the all the caps im new on this forum.. So it wont happend again... Here is the deal with the wind between you and the target what I always did was average the wind out from the bore to the target and almost everytime had first round impacts... TH1 is a advance wind formula which I was taught by Todd Hodnett if you know who that is.. th1 its a quick way to call wind with out a caculator I can not post the the formula on this site but with all the schools I have been to such as High Angle,Urban Sniper, Advance Sniper these are a few formulas they teach us. All im saying is this you have to become one with the enviroment using every factor involved to make a accurate wind call to hit on the first round beacuse thats where it counts you might not have a second chance to engage

 

[redirt78]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

"complacency kills"
-STA Tactical

I think your sig line should look more like that ^

A lot of us have seen some of Hodnett's wind calling on the MagPul PR dvd set.

Welcome to the hide.

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

I'm terrible at calling wind, geese, ducks, even the kids for dinner. But I'm really
lucky when it comes to shooting. Welcome to the Hide.

 

[goober]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

STA tacticle ,here is one I took off another site ,does it look like what you are talking about ? By the way were you sniping in the armed forces or in Law enfoircement ?
When I was shooting 308 I usually look at a factor number just like this and times the distance by the number for a reasonable MOA adjustment -you just have to remember those 3 or 4 numbers


Improved Windage Formula

Multipliers good out to approximately 1000 yards

Multiply the Multiplier X Wind Speed X the Range in Yards



.308 168 gr. @ 2700fps

The Multiplier is .0008?

“?” = (Range x .01) Example: 500 yards X .01 = 5.00 “Hint: just move Decimal two places left”

Examples

Yards Multiplier

100 - .00081

200- .00082

300- .00083

400- .00084

500- .00085

600- .00086

700- .00087

800- .00088

900- .00089

1000 .00090










The Formula is

.0008? X Wind Speed X Yards = MOA


For example a .308 @ 2700 fps with a 10 mph wind at a range of 500 yards the formula would be:

.00085 X 10 mph =.0085

.0085 X 500 yards = 4.25 moa


JBM Ballistics shows 4.4 so that’s pretty close.


.223 55gr @ 3240fps 10 mph wind


For the .223 the Multiplier is .001? With “?” = (Range x .01)

The formula for the .223 is the same as the example for the 308 above, just the Multiplier is different



Yards Multiplier

100 - .0011

200- .0012

300- .0013

400- .0014

500- .0015

600- .0016

700- .0017

800- .0018

900- .0019

1000 .0020

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

Seems to me any need for a calculator or chart of some sort to properly counter for wind is counter productive. I use a simple formula (range divided by 100 times half or full value wind in MPH divided by constant of 10). This yields an answer in MOA of drift. I can thereafter click or favor for a good hit. When favoring with irons, where converting MOA to inches may be useful, I can also easily convert to inches without need for a calculator. Of course, whether you need a fomula which gives you an answer in MOA or mils will be determined by what sort of sight you've got. One more thing, the constant of 10 is not exact science; but, for mid-range to LR, for most any standard high velocity bullet, it gets the job done. As far as how good I am, I expect good first round hits for myself as well as students.

 

[MD2Colo]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

you mean I can't just set up a kestrel at my FFP and bluetooth link it to my PDA with GPS which is connected to my laser rangefinder and just start firing shit off?

I guess I'm just jealous I don't have all of that lol

actually, I guess you can do that. prolly works well on flat terrain with a single wind from a constant direction, only measured at the FFP.


your all caps has given me a headache, thanks

 

[bohem]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MD2Colo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
actually, I guess you can do that. prolly works well on flat terrain with a single wind from a constant direction, only measured at the FFP.
</div></div>

You hit a very good point:





What do you do with wind that comes through a valley or across a ridge line or something else that isn't just pancake flat and consistent?

Shooting in the desert can be pretty tricky at times, shooting in the mountains is downright evil sometimes.



We were out this weekend in an old strip mine with a fishtailing 5-7 o clock wind. With the wind at the FP indicating about 8mph. At 1000yd across 3 man-made valleys with different intersecting angles along the flight path, over the top of a small plateau, and then down into a small dead-end ravine 1100yd out I was shooting the equivalent of 7.5-10MOA right hold with my 6.5CM and 140 Amax.

At 800yd the hold was 6.5-7.5 MOA

At 600yd it was less than 2 consistently.

The terrain has a TON to do with it.

 

[Bill Larson]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

shooting regularly in LR. practice/matches.... develops expierience in wind reading.How good you are will be reflected in scores/standings...
bill larson

 

[kraigWY]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

Some of the best wind/mirage training I got, was not while shooting but score keeping.

The first year I shot the Wilson Matches we werw squaded next to New York during the team matches. New York won long range (600 yard) matches that year. I scored for NY. As a scorer you have to get right next to the coach so you can compare scores. I was relatively new so I would make a guess based on what I new, listen to coaches call for his shooter and compare the results. Of course he got it right a heck of a lot more then I did. But I learned what actually happened and got to making my calls more accurately.

Same thing, some time later. I was shooting a 1000 yard team match at 29 Palms we were squading next to, and I scored for the AMU team. They won the match (799/800) and studying to coach I learned a lot.

I attended the National Guard Coaches clinic, got some good information, but where I really learned wind was scoring for some pretty good coaches. Certainly helped me when I started coaching for the AK NG Rifle Team.

 

[wallace11bravo]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


Improved Windage Formula

<span style="font-style: italic">I'm not going to re-post it all, just scroll up to look at it.</span>

</div></div>

This is the method I originally was taught. We called the multipliers "Constants" and it is still taught to mil, as far as I know.

IMHO; The problem with this is, if you have a constant for each range (which changes by round/rifle), given modern technology(ballistic calculators), it is better off to just have your baseline adjustment at 10mph FV for each range, and work it from there. I like to keep it on a card, but it can be, by all means, memorized.

I have attempted using a midway/baseline constant for all ranges, but had unsatisfactory results

Of course, that doesn't mean it can't work well for others.

Again, just my opinion. Not trying to rag on any one else's preferred technique.

The places I shoot are mostly canyons, and wind speed at the FP is generally twice what it is in the bottom. Again, just have to keep an eye on those indicators. I have not encountered any fishtailing winds yet, but definetly sounds like a challenge

I definetly agree that practice, and careful observation of others that know what they are doing, is the best way to learn.

Edit:
Straight from FM 23-10. This is basically the orignal method I was taught several years ago. IIRC, the constants were broken down further.

(Range[hundreds] X wind velocity MPH) / Constant = Adjustment in MOA

Constants:
100-500m =15
600m =14
700-800m =13
900m =12
1000m =11

Yes, I had to look it up to be sure. Been awhile since I have used this method.

 

[MALLARD]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> shooting regularly in LR. practice/matches.... develops expierience in wind reading.How good you are will be reflected in scores/standings...
bill larson </div></div>

not really , if someone is shooting an "ineffective cartridge" he may infact be superior in wind calls but his score may not reflect when compared to someone shooting a very effective cartridge. I remmeber the guy who shot a perfect and won(i forgot how many x's) in the summer came in 7th in the fall , same gun , same ammo , same everything. Match scores are ambigious at best.

Another thing is getting really good at a particular range doesnt indicate your wind calling ability , spotter pasters and wind flags are hard to find in the middle of no where.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Shooting in the desert can be pretty tricky at times, shooting in the mountains is downright evil sometimes.

The terrain has a TON to do with it. </div></div>

+1 , in my eyes the guys who call the wind best are the guys who have been forced to do so.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MALLARD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> shooting regularly in LR. practice/matches.... develops expierience in wind reading.How good you are will be reflected in scores/standings...
bill larson </div></div>

not really , if someone is shooting an "ineffective cartridge" he may infact be superior in wind calls but his score may not reflect when compared to someone shooting a very effective cartridge. I remmeber the guy who shot a perfect and won(i forgot how many x's) in the summer came in 7th in the fall , same gun , same ammo , same everything. Match scores are ambigious at best.

Another thing is getting really good at a particular range doesnt indicate your wind calling ability , spotter pasters and wind flags are hard to find in the middle of no where.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Shooting in the desert can be pretty tricky at times, shooting in the mountains is downright evil sometimes.

The terrain has a TON to do with it. </div></div>

+1 , in my eyes the guys who call the wind best are the guys who have been forced to do so.</div></div>

I have had experiences at LR which proved I had the biggest pocketbook and others where perhaps I had more skill. It's why today I mostly just shoot my AR based Service Rifle with irons at LR. I find shooting the Service Rifle at LR with irons and sling support is a better indicator of who's got the most skill on any given Sunday. It may not be absolute since after all the wind and light may change dramatically between strings; but, over all, I'd say when someone is winning with a Service Rifle at 1000, there's a good chance that shooter knows more about wind, and everything else about what good shooting is all about, than most others on the firing line equipped similarly yet not shooting as well. The exception would be those who have gone to other divisions having lost their visual acuity. At any rate, I'm sure I'll get flamed for my opinion from those here who think F-Class is the Mac Daddy. For me, when the shooter needs to lose contact with the rifle for the best results, it's no longer got much to do with marksmanship.

 

[Zilla]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MALLARD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> shooting regularly in LR. practice/matches.... develops expierience in wind reading.How good you are will be reflected in scores/standings...
bill larson </div></div>

not really , if someone is shooting an "ineffective cartridge" he may infact be superior in wind calls but his score may not reflect when compared to someone shooting a very effective cartridge. I remmeber the guy who shot a perfect and won(i forgot how many x's) in the summer came in 7th in the fall , same gun , same ammo , same everything. Match scores are ambigious at best.

Another thing is getting really good at a particular range doesnt indicate your wind calling ability , spotter pasters and wind flags are hard to find in the middle of no where.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Shooting in the desert can be pretty tricky at times, shooting in the mountains is downright evil sometimes.

The terrain has a TON to do with it. </div></div>

+1 , in my eyes the guys who call the wind best are the guys who have been forced to do so.</div></div>

I have had experiences at LR which proved I had the biggest pocketbook and others where perhaps I had more skill. It's why today I mostly just shoot my AR based Service Rifle with irons at LR. I find shooting the Service Rifle at LR with irons and sling support is a better indicator of who's got the most skill on any given Sunday. It may not be absolute since after all the wind and light may change dramatically between strings; but, over all, I'd say when someone is winning with a Service Rifle at 1000, there's a good chance that shooter knows more about wind, and everything else about what good shooting is all about, than most others on the firing line equipped similarly yet not shooting as well. The exception would be those who have gone to other divisions having lost their visual acuity. At any rate, I'm sure I'll get flamed for my opinion from those here who think F-Class is the Mac Daddy. For me, when the shooter needs to lose contact with the rifle for the best results, it's no longer got much to do with marksmanship. </div></div>

For me, marksmanship is hitting the intended target.

 

[PanaDP]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

Yeah, I'm not going to read that.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DGosnell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MALLARD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> shooting regularly in LR. practice/matches.... develops expierience in wind reading.How good you are will be reflected in scores/standings...
bill larson </div></div>

not really , if someone is shooting an "ineffective cartridge" he may infact be superior in wind calls but his score may not reflect when compared to someone shooting a very effective cartridge. I remmeber the guy who shot a perfect and won(i forgot how many x's) in the summer came in 7th in the fall , same gun , same ammo , same everything. Match scores are ambigious at best.

Another thing is getting really good at a particular range doesnt indicate your wind calling ability , spotter pasters and wind flags are hard to find in the middle of no where.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Shooting in the desert can be pretty tricky at times, shooting in the mountains is downright evil sometimes.

The terrain has a TON to do with it. </div></div>

+1 , in my eyes the guys who call the wind best are the guys who have been forced to do so.</div></div>

I have had experiences at LR which proved I had the biggest pocketbook and others where perhaps I had more skill. It's why today I mostly just shoot my AR based Service Rifle with irons at LR. I find shooting the Service Rifle at LR with irons and sling support is a better indicator of who's got the most skill on any given Sunday. It may not be absolute since after all the wind and light may change dramatically between strings; but, over all, I'd say when someone is winning with a Service Rifle at 1000, there's a good chance that shooter knows more about wind, and everything else about what good shooting is all about, than most others on the firing line equipped similarly yet not shooting as well. The exception would be those who have gone to other divisions having lost their visual acuity. At any rate, I'm sure I'll get flamed for my opinion from those here who think F-Class is the Mac Daddy. For me, when the shooter needs to lose contact with the rifle for the best results, it's no longer got much to do with marksmanship. </div></div>

For me, marksmanship is hitting the intended target.
</div></div>

For you and everybody else on the planet. I'm just saying to hit where aimed with a sling supported iron sight Service Rifle at LR requires development of picture and motor memory skills to an extraordinary level to gain consistency in aim and control of the rifle, offsetting the effect of not being able to exactly resolve the target/sight relationship. This concept, aiming consistently by using picture memory and position control, is almost moot when shooting a scoped rifle supported by rests.

 

[goober]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

This couldnt be more true.I occasiionly pick up a rifle with irons at the range for fun-always humbled

 

[sinister]

Re: WIND CALLS HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

Excellence-in-Competition Rifle Matches can be a good indicator of one's ability to call winds with a specific rifle -- there are no sighters, no foulers, no spotters -- all shots fired are for score and final standing.

As far as I know (besides combat) there are no scoped-rifle matches fired without some kind of "warm-up," sighter, or fouler shots. There are no recognized, repeatable objective matches where shooters from one side of the country (or world) can generally compare their ability to others.