F T/R Competition Wind reading: conscious or subconscious?

[damoncali]

I was reading through Lanny Bassham's book again last night (every time I do, I pick up something that eluded me the last time). (Amazon.com: With Winning in Mind 3rd Ed. eBook: Lanny Bassham: Books)

In it he goes into great length how we train our subconscious mind to carry out the mechanics of shooting, and that we ought to trust the subconscious to carry out the details. This happens for me for the fundamentals (more or less) - I put very little conscious thought into trigger control for example. But I realized that my wind reading is still very much a conscious, deliberate activity. I also realized how every now and then, I will "forget" and allow my subconscious to take over and handle the wind. When I let those shots fly, I usually have a feeling of "uh oh... I wasn't paying attention on that one", only to be surprised that they often come up 10's or x's.

Anyone else experience this? Do you read wind with your subconscious mind or is it a deliberate activity?

 

[Sterling Shooter]

I was reading through Lanny Bassham's book again last night (every time I do, I pick up something that eluded me the last time). (Amazon.com: With Winning in Mind 3rd Ed. eBook: Lanny Bassham: Books)

In it he goes into great length how we train our subconscious mind to carry out the mechanics of shooting, and that we ought to trust the subconscious to carry out the details. This happens for me for the fundamentals (more or less) - I put very little conscious thought into trigger control for example. But I realized that my wind reading is still very much a conscious, deliberate activity. I also realized how every now and then, I will "forget" and allow my subconscious to take over and handle the wind. When I let those shots fly, I usually have a feeling of "uh oh... I wasn't paying attention on that one", only to be surprised that they often come up 10's or x's.

Anyone else experience this? Do you read wind with your subconscious mind or is it a deliberate activity?

Here's what I do. I get out my score book and before going to the firing line, I record range conditions, i.e. wind and weather, and my Starting Zero. This is my no wind zero. Next, I record the Zero Used. This is the zero adjusted for wind and weather as being observed. This is a conscious exercise. Then, when firing I will plot every call and shot. I will make wind call (again, conscious) and annotate adjustment for each shot. I will note trends, such as shots building off center of target, indicating need to adjust sight to center group. Upon completion of firing, I will remove wind used from sight and record the no wind zero. This is called the Corrected Zero. It's all conscious effort to counter for changing conditions. Nothing is sub conscious other than breathing. I think about sight alignment, sight picture, trigger control, and follow through. I think about rebuilding the position consistently from shot to shot too. Any mental lapse will invite error. There is no auto pilot. There is intense focus, figuratively and literally. I follow a rigid procedure executing the two firing tasks for every shot. I am oblivious to other shooters on the firing line. I've heard this described as being in my bubble. I don't think I've ever been surprised about a result, at least I have not been surprised so far. I do record my impressions of my performance however after firing which describes where improvement might be possible.

 

[damoncali]

It's interesting, because when I used to shoot service rifle, I had to consciously correct for the wind because you have to click the wind onto your sights (at least I did - I cannot hold off accurately with irons). I'm fairly new to F class though, and holding off a little is very easy to do. You can favor one side of the x ring no problem if your scope is up to the task. Initially, I found myself going through the same routine as I had used with irons. But occasionally, the subconsicous takes over, and I just hold off and shoot without really thinking it through. To my surprise, it has worked very well - sometimes better than when I'm consciously focusing on the wind. Makes me wonder if that is not what I should be aspiring towards.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Clicks are more accurate than favors and so I click at LR when using a scope in any/any events. This also supports a sight picture using the eyes natural ability to both center and balance things. I may favor in rapid fire events with irons; but, as you know this is only at 300 yards. There may be conditions which support favors so I am not so rigid to not consider it but this would be exceptional. My process does not seem to have a downside. After all I have plenty of time. I do not think there is a right or wrong. I do think either however requires conscious application, that's to say awareness for changing conditions and countering for it, whether clicking or favoring. BTW, I read With Winning in Mind too many years ago to remember much about it other than having a plan to curb nerves from interfering with performance. I apparently did not get it. I still have difficulty with nerves when shooting in standing position on day's when I just can't seem to adjust my NPA. Intensive concentration on process while on the firing line is the only thing that's saved me. It's the power of positive thinking.

 

[scotharr]

My .02,
There is so much involved in in skillful "wind-reading," I don't think anyone is completely subconscious. Sure, with practice, certain tasks become automatic, but winding reading is part observation/estimation and part strategy. With practice, you can get really good at quantifying the wind "value" quickly ....which appears more subconscious to the observer. But, the strategy part is different every time you shoot and requires more conscious decision making. Strategy = deciding when to shoot and when not to shoot. As I have improved, I realize that the strategy part can be more important than wind reading skills. It does not matter how good you get at quantifying the wind, there are certain times when it is a really bad idea to shoot. During these times, a better strategy vastly improves your results.

Nobody truly "masters wind-reading. But there are certainly some folks who are a lot better at it than most. This book is a gold mine of wind reading knowledge from one of the world's best and has helped me tremendously: Prone & Long Range Rifle Shooting - Home

Here are some other thoughts.

It's easy to be "subconscious" and simply hold-off for changes in gentle conditions. Give that a try in a difficult fast-changing environment and it does not work as well in my opinion. Holding off is a technique lending itself to rapid shooting. Clicking in your adjustments slows down the shooter, but allows you to better keep track of what is going on in difficult conditions.

Also, I would not describe getting better as becoming more subconscious. Rather, I would say you get better when you are picking up subtle (and not so subtle) changes that elude less skilled shooters. I see lots of shooters talk about the wind, but see only a few making a conscious effort to improve their ability in this area. If you are serious about improving your wind reading, I think you should:
1. have a solid, verified no-wind zero on your scope.
2. know what windage is on your scope every single shot
3. use a spotting scope to watch mirage and other wind indicators.
4. call your shots
5. examine the multiple wind indicators before AND after every shot (flags, mirage, other targets, dust, leaves, grass, etc)
6. predict shot placement based on your call and wind reading before and after the shot.
6. many more things....read the book

 

[Flat Tire]

key mo sabie say shoot heavier bullet read less wind

 

[scotharr]

Yes, key mo sabie, everyone has figured that out. Alas the wind still pushes the bullet off the target.

 

[bolloxinaspanner]

This book is gold mine of different views on reading the wind. 2 LR Canuckians compiled their years of experience plus interviews with other international competitors and distilled it into one volume. Some of it was helpful and some not. You decide.
The Wind Book For Rifle Shooters: Linda K. Miller, Captain Keith Cunningham: 9781581605327: Amazon.com: Books

 

[40xs]

Very early in my heavy equipment operating days an experienced operator once told me that I would know that I had become accomplished in the skills of blade work while moving earth when I stopped having to think about when to pull the levers and controls and begin doing it when my "butt" told me when to do it. A sort of different way of putting it, but once you think about it, it has merit. In other words when it comes natural for you to adjust based on experience, and not have to ponder so long. This may apply in some small way.

 

[XTR]

I would never say that windage calls are subconscious, but in shooting at the tiny 10-Ring on an F class target with a 308, which will drop a point on a 1MPH full value change in wind, a lot of the ¼ MOA to ½ MOA holding we do is intuition, feeling and some luck, because you just cant see that. Maybe you can sense it, but to actually identify it is probably outside of our capabilities. In The Wind Book For Rifle Shooters they say that if you think you see a change it's worth a minute, if you know you see it then it is worth two. In F class a 1MOA shift is an 8. I've managed to put up a lot of scores w/o an 8 on the card. Either I'm getting very lucky, or I'm at least at the ½ MOA/1MOA level of perception as opposed to the 1MOA/2MOA level that they reference in the book.

 

[SWRichmond]

I would never say that windage calls are subconscious, but in shooting at the tiny 10-Ring on an F class target with a 308, which will drop a point on a 1MPH full value change in wind, a lot of the ¼ MOA to ½ MOA holding we do is intuition, feeling and some luck, because you just cant see that. Maybe you can sense it, but to actually identify it is probably outside of our capabilities. In The Wind Book For Rifle Shooters they say that if you think you see a change it's worth a minute, if you know you see it then it is worth two. In F class a 1MOA shift is an 8. I've managed to put up a lot of scores w/o an 8 on the card. Either I'm getting very lucky, or I'm at least at the ½ MOA/1MOA level of perception as opposed to the 1MOA/2MOA level that they reference in the book.

After a few years of shooting I only very recently had an experience where I "saw" the wind more clearly than I ever have before, and at 1,000, and under quite difficult constantly-changing conditions (spring match at Butner). I think this means that your quote above from the book is appropriate: I think what it means is that my level of seeing the wind now has a greater level of certainty, or a smaller level of error, and I like the description of it being 1MOA/2MOA etc. In some cases I was shooting nines on one side while holding the opposite edge of the board. Stable conditions never arrived; there was an irregular cycle with sudden changes, and I didn't have time to wait for my condition to return. I only had time to wait for the extreme unknowns to go away and I still can't detect the subtleties. I wasn't quite "guessing", but it sure as hell wasn't unconscious; I "was" seeing it, and the changes, but was NOT able to translate that seeing into 10's, having a greater level of error than would be required to shoot 10's.

I watch through my spotting scope, and have it adjusted to see mirage at about the 300 yard line, and the rifle scope is also focused there. If I don't see the same condition in the rifle scope when I move there to shoot (some days this is common), I go back to the spotting scope and wait (hope) for it to settle a bit. Some days 30 minutes just isn't enough...

I think the notion that there is "feel" to it is the same thing as subconsciously recognizing a condition you have seen before and that you should shoot now with "this" hold.

 

[damoncali]

I think the notion that there is "feel" to it is the same thing as subconsciously recognizing a condition you have seen before and that you should shoot now with "this" hold.

I think this accurately describes my experience. Sometimes, the "hey - the wind looks right, time to shoot holding in the 9 ring" process happens without me thinking about it consciously. But never on the first few shots in the relay. What I find interesting is the few times that happens, I tend to shoot well. When I'm thinking really hard about the wind is when I'm making mistakes.