like from 26" down to 18" Check this out:
http://www.sniperschool.com/barrel-length-revisited
http://www.sniperschool.com/barrel-length-revisited
- Thread starter cali_tz
- Start date
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
Takes guts to sawzall a barrel, wonder how much the recrown tool costs? If the data is valid, doesn't appear to impact accuracy.
Takes guts to sawzall a barrel, wonder how much the recrown tool costs? If the data is valid, doesn't appear to impact accuracy.
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
Nice video..
Nice video..
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
Nothing wrong with short barrels. Accuracy does not come from the barrel length rather from quality workmanship. However MV has a lot to do with barrel length, especially in cartridges with big case capacities that utilize slow burning powder.
Nothing wrong with short barrels. Accuracy does not come from the barrel length rather from quality workmanship. However MV has a lot to do with barrel length, especially in cartridges with big case capacities that utilize slow burning powder.
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
I have cut down a couple of barrels at the range using a hacksaw & countersink bit in a battery drill.
I did it to see how much velocity was lost, as I'm not keen on believing everything I read either.
The surprising thing was that with most cuts I made & after recrowning with the battery drill it still shot 3/4" at 100.
I lost a bit if speed per inch but not as much as I've read, until I cut my 308 barrel straight down to 12"
I have cut down a couple of barrels at the range using a hacksaw & countersink bit in a battery drill.
I did it to see how much velocity was lost, as I'm not keen on believing everything I read either.
The surprising thing was that with most cuts I made & after recrowning with the battery drill it still shot 3/4" at 100.
I lost a bit if speed per inch but not as much as I've read, until I cut my 308 barrel straight down to 12"
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
I usually just open my car door while driving and grind the barrel down on a good concrete road. Doesnt seem to effect my accuracy. Lol
I usually just open my car door while driving and grind the barrel down on a good concrete road. Doesnt seem to effect my accuracy. Lol
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy M40a2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I usually just open my car door while driving and grind the barrel down on a good concrete road. Doesnt seem to effect my accuracy. Lol </div></div>
Concrete is too porous and it'll pit up your barrel. You'll have much better luck on asphalt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy M40a2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I usually just open my car door while driving and grind the barrel down on a good concrete road. Doesnt seem to effect my accuracy. Lol </div></div>
Concrete is too porous and it'll pit up your barrel. You'll have much better luck on asphalt
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
I saw a guy cut his Savage barrel down with a pipe cutter. It took a while. But I think his cut was more square than the sawzall or hacksaw methods might potentially be. For the crown, he just used a big drill bit. That rifle shot sub-MOA before and after he cut the barrel.
I saw a guy cut his Savage barrel down with a pipe cutter. It took a while. But I think his cut was more square than the sawzall or hacksaw methods might potentially be. For the crown, he just used a big drill bit. That rifle shot sub-MOA before and after he cut the barrel.
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
Probably Not .
But Is using a Sawsall . Any worse than you using a Lathe Cut-off Tool that chatters like a 3-year old after chugging a Triple-shot Grande Star Bucks ? ...
Probably Not .
But Is using a Sawsall . Any worse than you using a Lathe Cut-off Tool that chatters like a 3-year old after chugging a Triple-shot Grande Star Bucks ? ...
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
I've got a shooting buddy that has been doing the hacksaw thing for years. He bought a new Freedom Arms revolver which isn't cheap and couldn't wait to take the saw to it and it's never hurt accuracy on anything he's cut off, sometimes it's even helped it.
We're presently shooting 1000 yard matches with 15" barrels and some he's cut down from rifle barrels at the range, used a hand crowning tool and back to the bench he went. Slight affect on velocity but as others have said we've not found barrel length to be a big factor as far as accuracy is concerned.
Just noticed you said ELR gun. I guess after two years of 1000 yard matches I don't consider that being Extended Long Range but that is where it starts. I think the velocity loss would really be defeating the purpose for ELR but out to 1200 yards or so then heck YES I'd have no problem cutting a barrel down.
This is a perfect description of a cutoff tool, I thought I was the only one that has never figured out how to use one.
"Any worse than you using a Lathe Cut-off Tool that chatters like a 3-year old after chugging a Triple-shot Grande Star Bucks ? ..."
Topstrap
I've got a shooting buddy that has been doing the hacksaw thing for years. He bought a new Freedom Arms revolver which isn't cheap and couldn't wait to take the saw to it and it's never hurt accuracy on anything he's cut off, sometimes it's even helped it.
We're presently shooting 1000 yard matches with 15" barrels and some he's cut down from rifle barrels at the range, used a hand crowning tool and back to the bench he went. Slight affect on velocity but as others have said we've not found barrel length to be a big factor as far as accuracy is concerned.
Just noticed you said ELR gun. I guess after two years of 1000 yard matches I don't consider that being Extended Long Range but that is where it starts. I think the velocity loss would really be defeating the purpose for ELR but out to 1200 yards or so then heck YES I'd have no problem cutting a barrel down.
This is a perfect description of a cutoff tool, I thought I was the only one that has never figured out how to use one.
"Any worse than you using a Lathe Cut-off Tool that chatters like a 3-year old after chugging a Triple-shot Grande Star Bucks ? ..."
Topstrap
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But Is using a Sawsall . Any worse than you using a Lathe Cut-off Tool that chatters like a 3-year old after chugging a Triple-shot Grande Star Bucks ? ... </div></div>
Proper set up & speeds, sharp tools, cutting fluid = no chatter
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But Is using a Sawsall . Any worse than you using a Lathe Cut-off Tool that chatters like a 3-year old after chugging a Triple-shot Grande Star Bucks ? ... </div></div>
Proper set up & speeds, sharp tools, cutting fluid = no chatter
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
Thats got to be the craziest thing I've ever heard but what ever works for you i guess
Thats got to be the craziest thing I've ever heard but what ever works for you i guess
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cryan15</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats got to be the craziest thing I've ever heard but what ever works for you i guess </div></div>
Are you all kidding me. A hand saw to cut a barrel?
I'am new here but not to metal work. this may work but sounds nuts to me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cryan15</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats got to be the craziest thing I've ever heard but what ever works for you i guess </div></div>
Are you all kidding me. A hand saw to cut a barrel?
I'am new here but not to metal work. this may work but sounds nuts to me.
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy M40a2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I usually just open my car door while driving and grind the barrel down on a good concrete road. Doesnt seem to effect my accuracy. Lol </div></div>
Congradulations Jimmy ... your post is the longest I have laughed out loud at whilst reading the Internet ... I am still chuckling as I type
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy M40a2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I usually just open my car door while driving and grind the barrel down on a good concrete road. Doesnt seem to effect my accuracy. Lol </div></div>
Congradulations Jimmy ... your post is the longest I have laughed out loud at whilst reading the Internet ... I am still chuckling as I type
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
To answer the OP's question ... my initial thoughts are NO.
I don't consider a .308 to be an ELR calibre and shortening a longer barrel to 18 inches is'nt in my view helping matters. I have seen a lot of world class .308 shooters but I have'nt seen one who shoots a consistant 1 moa with an 18 inch .308 barrel at 920 yards ( the longest distance referred to ).
With a 28/30 inch barrel I have seen a 15 shot string go clean at 1000 yards but they struggle going out further to 1100 and 1200 to hold 1 moa. As far as I know no-one has cleaned a 15 or 20 shot string at 1100 or 1200 yards with a .308 in F/TR ( which means they have put them all in under 1 moa ). A 15 shot string has been done but not a 20 shot string at 1000.
Anyone able to do a consistant 1 moa at 900 yards with an 18 inch .308 would therefore be "big news".
FWIW I often find web site claims that talk about "real world" performance to be usually about to say something very rarely seen ...
To answer the OP's question ... my initial thoughts are NO.
I don't consider a .308 to be an ELR calibre and shortening a longer barrel to 18 inches is'nt in my view helping matters. I have seen a lot of world class .308 shooters but I have'nt seen one who shoots a consistant 1 moa with an 18 inch .308 barrel at 920 yards ( the longest distance referred to ).
With a 28/30 inch barrel I have seen a 15 shot string go clean at 1000 yards but they struggle going out further to 1100 and 1200 to hold 1 moa. As far as I know no-one has cleaned a 15 or 20 shot string at 1100 or 1200 yards with a .308 in F/TR ( which means they have put them all in under 1 moa ). A 15 shot string has been done but not a 20 shot string at 1000.
Anyone able to do a consistant 1 moa at 900 yards with an 18 inch .308 would therefore be "big news".
FWIW I often find web site claims that talk about "real world" performance to be usually about to say something very rarely seen ...
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
sniperschool.com says "dispelled the rumor that a shorter barrel reduces the accuracy and effectiveness of a rifle"
WTF ?! you lose velocity , therefore , you less potiental accuracy. The faster you go the less exposure your bullets will have to the wind, fast is good. Reducing TOF is a goal of long range guys , isnt it?
another one from sniperschool.com ..
"While I have no pics of group... all the targets at all distances impacts within 1 MOA are pretty apparent"... even with no groups huh , lets trust this guy , and his lack of evidence, afterall he's selling something isnt he ?
another thing , if you look at chris longs obt chart , you'll see the distance (or time , however you look at that) between nodes on a shorter barrel is smaller then on a longer barrel ,
IE a 16in barrel has node 5 @.82 and node 6 @.88 miliseconds , distance from node 5 and 6 is .06 milliseconds , looking at a 30in bbl , node 5 @ 1.52 and node 6 @ 1.62 , the distance between them is .9 m/s . 30% longer right ?
Changes in temp (and other things outside my understanding) change a loads average exit time on any given day , maybe only alittle. With only .06 m/s between nodes 5 and 6 , its very probably to think a load may exit while the p-waves are stacked at the muzzle ( a deviation of around .02-.03 milliseconds is normal, isnt really that bad , but yet undesirable) ,
so , a 16in has a .06 difference between nodes , while a 30in has a .09 difference , well , the bigger barrel has 30 % better chance of a bullet not exiting while the pwaves are stacked at the muzzle.
im sorry i suck at wording this fucking shit , its over my head.
finally, "the Black Hills ammo" or "the Federal ammo" , wow , not even a fucking bullet weight huh ? well my 16in ar shoots 75 grain bullets around 2400 fps , while my 24in are shoots them at 2650fps , that 200 fps difference is huge when shooting in a high wind condition.
i think my analysis of shoter barrel vs longer barrels is better then sniperschool.com summary, not surprising considering i wrote it. Sorry my grammar sucks
sniperschool.com says "dispelled the rumor that a shorter barrel reduces the accuracy and effectiveness of a rifle"
WTF ?! you lose velocity , therefore , you less potiental accuracy. The faster you go the less exposure your bullets will have to the wind, fast is good. Reducing TOF is a goal of long range guys , isnt it?
another one from sniperschool.com ..
"While I have no pics of group... all the targets at all distances impacts within 1 MOA are pretty apparent"... even with no groups huh , lets trust this guy , and his lack of evidence, afterall he's selling something isnt he ?
another thing , if you look at chris longs obt chart , you'll see the distance (or time , however you look at that) between nodes on a shorter barrel is smaller then on a longer barrel ,
IE a 16in barrel has node 5 @.82 and node 6 @.88 miliseconds , distance from node 5 and 6 is .06 milliseconds , looking at a 30in bbl , node 5 @ 1.52 and node 6 @ 1.62 , the distance between them is .9 m/s . 30% longer right ?
Changes in temp (and other things outside my understanding) change a loads average exit time on any given day , maybe only alittle. With only .06 m/s between nodes 5 and 6 , its very probably to think a load may exit while the p-waves are stacked at the muzzle ( a deviation of around .02-.03 milliseconds is normal, isnt really that bad , but yet undesirable) ,
so , a 16in has a .06 difference between nodes , while a 30in has a .09 difference , well , the bigger barrel has 30 % better chance of a bullet not exiting while the pwaves are stacked at the muzzle.
im sorry i suck at wording this fucking shit , its over my head.
finally, "the Black Hills ammo" or "the Federal ammo" , wow , not even a fucking bullet weight huh ? well my 16in ar shoots 75 grain bullets around 2400 fps , while my 24in are shoots them at 2650fps , that 200 fps difference is huge when shooting in a high wind condition.
i think my analysis of shoter barrel vs longer barrels is better then sniperschool.com summary, not surprising considering i wrote it. Sorry my grammar sucks
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
Anyone know someone that has experience with this place?
Just curious.
Anyone know someone that has experience with this place?
Just curious.
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
I've been out there for two schools. Great location for training, good instructors, etc. They are a hands on, let's see it for ourselves and try it out type place....ref the barrel cutting video. That whole thing started back when people were saying you needed 26in or more to reach out to 1000. So, they cut some barrels down in the field to prove otherwise...that's it really. It's funny to look back at those arguments.
I've been out there for two schools. Great location for training, good instructors, etc. They are a hands on, let's see it for ourselves and try it out type place....ref the barrel cutting video. That whole thing started back when people were saying you needed 26in or more to reach out to 1000. So, they cut some barrels down in the field to prove otherwise...that's it really. It's funny to look back at those arguments.
Re: would you sawzall ur long ELR rifle barrel short?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MALLARD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sniperschool.com says "dispelled the rumor that a shorter barrel reduces the accuracy and effectiveness of a rifle"
WTF ?! you lose velocity , therefore , you less potiental accuracy. The faster you go the less exposure your bullets will have to the wind, fast is good. Reducing TOF is a goal of long range guys , isnt it?
</div></div>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15qj032UJ1I
Maybe, maybe not. FWIW, my barrel is 24" and I have no inclination to cut it down....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MALLARD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sniperschool.com says "dispelled the rumor that a shorter barrel reduces the accuracy and effectiveness of a rifle"
WTF ?! you lose velocity , therefore , you less potiental accuracy. The faster you go the less exposure your bullets will have to the wind, fast is good. Reducing TOF is a goal of long range guys , isnt it?
</div></div>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15qj032UJ1I
Maybe, maybe not. FWIW, my barrel is 24" and I have no inclination to cut it down....
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