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WWII AF Stats To Contemplate...Comments?

fx77

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Minuteman
  • Nov 29, 2005
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    In God We Trust - God Bless America
    America - Love It Or Leave It!



    Amazing Stats


    Most Americans who were not adults during WWII have no understanding
    of the magnitude of it. This listing of some of the aircraft facts
    gives a bit of insight to it. 276,000 aircraft manufactured in the
    US. 43,000 planes lost overseas, including 23,000 in combat. 14,000
    lost in the continental US. The US civilian population maintained a
    dedicated effort for four years, many working long hours seven days
    per week and often also volunteering for other work. WWII was the
    largest human effort in history.


    Statistics from Flight Journal magazine.

    THE COST of DOING BUSINESS ---- The staggering cost of war.

    THE PRICE OF VICTORY


    B-17 $204,370. P-40 $44,892.
    B-24 $215,516. P-47 $85,578.
    B-25 $142,194. P-51 $51,572.
    B-26 $192,426. C-47 $88,574.
    B-29 $605,360. PT-17 $15,052.
    P-38 $97,147. AT-6 $22,952.

    ON AVERAGE
    6600 American service men died per MONTH, during WWII (about 220 a day).

    PLANES A DAY WORLDWIDE
    From Germany's invasion of Poland Sept. 1, 1939 and ending with
    Japan's surrender Sept. 2, 1945 --- 2,433 days.
    From 1942 onward, America averaged 170 planes lost a day.
    Nation Aircraft Average
    USA 276,400 113
    S Union 137,200 56
    G Britain 108,500 45
    Germany 109,000 45
    Japan 76,300 31

    How Many is a 1,000 planes?
    B-17 production (12,731) wingtip to wingtip would extend 250 miles.
    1,000 B-17s carried 2.5 million gallons of high octane fuel.


    Lifting 10,000 airmen to deliver 2,000 tons of bombs.

    THE NUMBERS GAME
    9.7 billion gallons of gasoline consumed, 1942-1945.
    107.8 million hours flown, 1943-1945.
    459.7 billion rounds of aircraft ammo fired overseas, 1942-1945.
    7.9 million bombs dropped overseas, 1943-1945.
    2.3 million combat sorties, 1941-1945 (one sortie = one takeoff).
    299,230 aircraft accepted, 1940-1945.
    808,471 aircraft engines accepted, 1940-1945.
    799,972 propellers accepted, 1940-1945.

    WWII MOST-PRODUCED COMBAT AIRCRAFT
    II-2 Stumovik 36,183
    Yak 1, 3, 7, 9 31,000+
    Bf 109 30,480
    Fw 190 29,001
    Spitfire/Seafire 20,351
    B-24/PB4Y 18,482
    Thunderbolt 15,686
    Mustang 15,875
    Ju 88 15,000
    Hurricane 14,533
    P-40 13,738
    B-17 12,731
    Corsair 12,571
    Hellcat 12,275
    Pe-2 11,400
    P-38 10,037
    Zero 10,449
    B-25 9,984
    LaGG-5 9,920
    Avenger 9,837
    P-39 9,584
    Oscar 5,919
    Mosquito 7,780
    Lancaster 7,377
    He 111 6,508
    Halifax 6,176
    Bf 110 6,150
    LaGG-7 5,753
    B-29 3,970
    Stirling 2,383

    Sources:
    Rene Francillon, Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific war; Cajus Bekker,
    The Luftwaffe Diaries; Ray Wagner, American Combat Planes; Wikipedia.

    BALL PARK AVERAGE:
    Chief of Staff to General, “Hmmm; 331 men killed and 308 aircraft
    destroyed. That’s 11 people and 10 planes per day.”
    “Uh, yes, sir. It's still the ballpark average.”
    "I’d like to see an improvement in bomber losses, those really add up."
    “Were working on it, General. But it's sad to think that 10 young men
    alive today will be dead tomorrow.”
    “You know that’s the price of doing business. Now then, what about
    the overseas and combat losses?”

    According to the AAF Statistical Digest, in less than four years
    (December 1941- August 1945), the US Army Air Forces lost 14,903
    pilots, aircrew and assorted personnel plus 13,873 airplanes ---
    inside the continental United States. They were the result of 52,651
    aircraft accidents (6,039 involving fatalities) in 45 months.
    Think about those numbers. They average 1,170 aircraft accidents per
    month---- nearly 40 a day. (Less than one accident in four resulted
    in totaled aircraft, however.)
    Those colossal losses cost the Axis powers nothing; not as much as
    one 7.7 mm bullet.
    It gets worse.....
    Almost 1,000 Army planes disappeared en route from the US to foreign
    climes. But an eye-watering 43,581 aircraft were lost overseas
    including 22,948 on combat missions (18,418 against the Western Axis)
    and 20,633 attributed to non-combat causes overseas.
    In August 1943, 60 B-17s were shot down among 376 losses. That was a
    16 percent loss rate and meant 600 empty bunks in England. In 1942-43
    it was statistically impossible for bomber crews to complete a
    25-mission tour in Europe.
    Pacific theatre losses were far less (4,530 in combat) owing to
    smaller forces committed. The worst B-29 mission, against Tokyo on
    May 25, 1945, cost 26 Superfortress, 5.6 percent of the 464
    dispatched from the Marianas.
    On average, 6,600 American servicemen died per month during WWII,
    about 220 a day. By the end of the war, over 40,000 airmen were
    killed in combat theatres and another 18,000 wounded. Some 12,000
    missing men were declared dead, including a number “liberated” by the
    Soviets but never returned. More than 41,000 were captured, half of
    the 5,400 held by the Japanese died in captivity, compared with
    one-tenth in German hands. Total combat casualties were pegged at
    121,867.
    US manpower made up the deficit. The AAF’s peak strength was reached
    in 1944 with 2,372,000 personnel, nearly twice the previous year's
    figure.
    The losses were huge---but so were production totals. From 1941
    through 1945, American industry delivered more than 276,000 military
    aircraft. That number was enough not only for US Army, Navy and
    Marine Corps, but for allies as diverse as Britain, Australia, China
    and Russia. In fact, from 1943 onward, America produced more planes
    than Britain and Russia combined. And more than Germany and Japan
    together 1941-45.
    However, our enemies took massive losses. Through much of 1944, the
    Luftwaffe sustained uncontrolled hemorrhaging, reaching 25 percent of
    aircrews and 40 planes a month. And in late 1944 into 1945, nearly
    half the pilots in Japanese squadrons had flown fewer than 200 hours.
    The disparity of two years before had been completely reversed.




    Experience Level:
    Uncle Sam sent many of his sons to war with absolute minimums of
    training. Some fighter pilots entered combat in 1942 with less than
    one hour in their assigned aircraft.
    The 357th Fighter Group (often known as The Yoxford Boys) went to
    England in late 1943 having trained on P-39s. The group never saw a
    Mustang until shortly before its first combat mission. A high-time
    P-51 pilot had 30 hours in type. Many had fewer than five hours. Some
    had one hour.
    With arrival of new aircraft, many combat units transitioned in
    combat. The attitude was, “They all have a stick and a throttle. Go
    fly `em.” When the famed 4th Fighter Group converted from P-47s to
    P-51s in February 1944, there was no time to stand down for an
    orderly transition. The Group commander, Col. Donald Blakeslee, said,
    “You can learn to fly `51s on the way to the target. (Note: Gone West
    HNL QB Brewster Morgan (Morgan's Corner up in Nuuanu off of Old Pali
    Road), a Honolulu boy and a member of the 4th Fighter Group, told me
    that they actually did stand down one day to transition from the P47
    to the P51. They were pissed that the old groups still had the P47
    [Brewster was with the Eagle Squadron in the Spitfire......later in
    the P47 when the US got into it in '42] and the newer groups coming
    over from the US all had P-51s. Blakeslee finally convinced AF to let
    them convert by standing down just one day. An interesting side
    note........Brewster was shot down over France in '44 and became a
    POW.......his roommate?.......Douglas Bader.......top English ace with
    two wooden legs...Bader lost one of his legs when he bailed out and
    was captured.......the Germans asked the Brits to send him another
    leg......which they did....BD).

    A future P-47 ace said, “I was sent to England to die.” He was not
    alone. Some fighter pilots tucked their wheels in the well on their
    first combat mission with one previous flight in the aircraft.




    Meanwhile, many bomber crews were still learning their trade: of
    Jimmy Doolittle’s 15 pilots on the April 1942 Tokyo raid, only five
    had won their wings before 1941. All but one of the 16 copilots were
    less than a year out of flight school.
    In WWII flying safety took a back seat to combat. The AAF’s worst
    accident rate was recorded by the A-36 Invader version of the P-51: a
    staggering 274 accidents per 100,000 flying hours. Next worst were
    the P-39 at 245, the P-40 at 188, and the P-38 at 139. All were
    Allison powered.
    Bomber wrecks were fewer but more expensive. The B-17 and B-24
    averaged 30 and 35 accidents per 100,000 flight hours,
    respectively----a horrific figure considering that from 1980 to 2000
    the Air Force’s major mishap rate was less than 2.
    The B-29 was even worse at 40; the world's most sophisticated, most
    capable and most expensive bomber was too urgently needed to stand
    down for mere safety reasons. The AAF set a reasonably high standard
    for B-29 pilots, but the desired figures were seldom attained. The
    original cadre of the 58th Bomb Wing was to have 400 hours of
    multi-engine time, but there were not enough experienced pilots to
    meet the criterion. Only ten percent had overseas experience.
    Conversely, when a $2.1 billion B-2 crashed in 2008, the Air Force
    initiated a two-month “safety pause” rather than declare a “stand
    down”, let alone grounding.
    The B-29 was no better for maintenance. Though the R3350 was known as
    a complicated, troublesome power-plant, no more than half the
    mechanics had previous experience with the Duplex Cyclone. But they
    made it work.




    Navigators:
    Perhaps the greatest unsung success story of AAF training was
    Navigators. The Army graduated some 50,000 during the War. And many
    had never flown out of sight of land before leaving “Uncle Sugar” for
    a war zone. Yet the huge majority found their way across oceans and
    continents without getting lost or running out of fuel --- a stirring
    tribute to the AAF’s educational establishments.




    Cadet To Colonel:
    It was possible for a flying cadet at the time of Pearl Harbor to
    finish the war with eagles on his shoulders. That was the record of
    John D. Landers, a 21-year-old Texan, who was commissioned a second
    lieutenant on December 12, 1941. He joined his combat squadron with
    209 hours total flight time, including 2 ½ in P-40s. He finished the
    war as a full colonel, commanding an 8th Air Force Group --- at age
    24.
    As the training pipeline filled up, however those low figures became
    exceptions. By early 1944, the average AAF fighter pilot entering
    combat had logged at least 450 hours, usually including 250 hours in
    training. At the same time, many captains and first lieutenants
    claimed over 600 hours.




    FACT:
    At its height in mid-1944, the Army Air Forces had 2.6 million people
    and nearly 80,000 aircraft of all types. Today the US Air Force
    employs 327,000 active personnel (plus 170,000 civilians) with 5,500+
    manned and perhaps 200 unmanned aircraft. The 2009 figures represent
    about 12 percent of the manpower and 7 percent of the airplanes of
    the WWII peak.





    IN SUMMATION:
    Whether there will ever be another air war is doubtful, as fighters
    and bombers have given way to helicopters and remotely-controlled
    drones over Afghanistan and Iraq. But within living memory, men left
    the earth in 1,000-plane formations and fought major battles five
    miles high, leaving a legacy that remains timeless.
     
    Re: WWII AF Stats To Contemplate...Comments?

    What a tremendous waste of life. It's too bad our 'history' books gloss over the facts. It's amazing how little experience these boys had.
     
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    Re: WWII AF Stats To Contemplate...Comments?

    At its height in mid-1944, the Army Air Forces had 2.6 million people
    and nearly 80,000 aircraft of all types. Today the US Air Force
    employs 327,000 active personnel (plus 170,000 civilians) with 5,500+
    manned and perhaps 200 unmanned aircraft. The 2009 figures represent
    about 12 percent of the manpower and 7 percent of the airplanes of
    the WWII peak.




    Interesting though that one of todays aircraft could probrably disable or defeat an entire carrier gropp from that time.
     
    Re: WWII AF Stats To Contemplate...Comments?

    The foundations of human ethics are always under attack from self-interest:

    President Harry Truman said that when the Martin Company was making B26 bombers they were crashing at low speeds and killing their crews at alarming rates. He asked what was wrong. Glenn Martin told him that the wing spread wasn't wide enough to give the plane stable characteristics as it approached stall speed.
    Truman asked "Why aren't you making it wider?"
    Martin repsonded "I don't have to... and besides, I've got a contract."
    Truman told him that in that case he will see that the contract is cancelled and they will never get another.
    "Oh," Martin said, "If that's the way it's going to be, we'll fix it."
    B26 production was immediately halted. The plane was modified. The new version stopped crashing.

    The lesson is that proper leadership serves the greater good; but that such leadership comes with a price.

    Rest in Peace, Greatest generation!
     
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    Re: WWII AF Stats To Contemplate...Comments?

    THE NUMBERS GAME
    9.7 billion gallons of gasoline consumed, 1942-1945.



    and thats just av fuel....wonder where it all came from ?
     
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    Reactions: Sean the Nailer
    Curtis LeMay, who is wrongly portrayed as a monster, was one of the most forward-thinking, cerebral and crew-focused generals in the AAC.

    He is the only general whose metric for success included “airmen lost per square mile/unit of enemy target destruction.”

    By the end of the war he had destroyed, almost completely, 60+ Cities and driven crew losses down to almost nil. IIRC, he razed 16 square miles of Tokyo on March 6 losing 5 planes.

    War is hell. Get it Over with faster and you save lives. Period.

    Remember that in ETO you had to complete 25 missions to rotate out of combat bombing. You had a 1 in 20 chance of being shot down each mission, early in the war. Yet they still went up despite the math.

    And many, after completing their 25 missions, signed up for another tour… because they didn’t want to leave their buddies.

    Anyone wants some good books on the subject, let me know and I’ll post.

    Sirhr
     
    Curtis LeMay, who is wrongly portrayed as a monster, was one of the most forward-thinking, cerebral and crew-focused generals in the AAC.

    He is the only general whose metric for success included “airmen lost per square mile/unit of enemy target destruction.”

    By the end of the war he had destroyed, almost completely, 60+ Cities and driven crew losses down to almost nil. IIRC, he razed 16 square miles of Tokyo on March 6 losing 5 planes.

    War is hell. Get it Over with faster and you save lives. Period.

    Remember that in ETO you had to complete 25 missions to rotate out of combat bombing. You had a 1 in 20 chance of being shot down each mission, early in the war. Yet they still went up despite the math.

    And many, after completing their 25 missions, signed up for another tour… because they didn’t want to leave their buddies.

    Anyone wants some good books on the subject, let me know and I’ll post.

    Sirhr
    They were nothing but gullible young men, serving their government master, with the ultimate goal of crushing your rights, destroying the constitution and serving the new world order. Once they got on that government teat, they wanted no other milk.
     
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    They were nothing but gullible young men, serving their government master, with the ultimate goal of crushing your rights, destroying the constitution and serving the new world order. Once they got on that government teat, they wanted no other milk.
    You wanna knock that shit off? This anti-government ranting and bullshit is getting a bit old and predictable. And it's mostly bullshit. You're about a cunt hair away from getting a vacation.
     
    You wanna knock that shit off? This anti-government ranting and bullshit is getting a bit old and predictable. And it's mostly bullshit. You're about a cunt hair away from getting a vacation.
    I guess I should have used my sarcasm font.
    I was just trying to get in before @wade2big, @n2ishun and @TurboTrout.
     
    That’s a lot of aluminum

    Interesting the higher standards for the back then for the heavies, vs now days you have to be top shit to get into the fighters
     
    Also during WW2 (from wikipedia)

    The United States Navy Submarine Service lost 52 submarines, 374 officers and 3,131 enlisted men during World War II. These personnel losses represented 16% of the officer and 13% of the enlisted operational personnel. This loss rate was the highest among men and ships of any U.S. Navy unit.

    Less than two percent of American sailors served in submarines (1.6% by most sources), yet that small percentage of men and their boats sank 214 Japanese warships. This included 1 battleship, 4 large aircraft carriers, 4 small aircraft carriers, 3 heavy cruisers, 8 light cruisers, 43 destroyers, 23 large submarines and 1,178 merchant ships of more than 500 tons.

    In all, U.S. submarines sank more than 55 percent of all Japanese ships sunk. More than surface ships, Navy air and the U.S. Army Air Corps combined.

    Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz summarized their efforts after the war by writing: "We, who survived World War II and were privileged to rejoin our loved ones at home, salute those gallant officers and men of our submarines who lost their lives in that long struggle. We shall never forget that it was our submarines that held the lines against the enemy while our fleets replaced losses and repaired wounds."
     
    “who wishes to fight must first count the cost”
    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War


    People who live in imaginary or deluded worlds like Trouser Trout and Wade will always think event like WWII had nothing to do with them and had no effect on their lives, the rest of us know better.

    It is important to compile an accounting of the costs of war in lives and treasure. One incredible thing about WWI was the iron and steel production of America. 188,310,000 tons of hematite from the Mesabi range in Minnesota was mined from 1939-45, the entire supply that was forecasted to last generations was exhausted in six years. Today we make iron and steel from taconite.

    America was producing almost 1,000,000 tons of aluminum a year in WWII. This required 15,640,000 megawatt hours of electricity a year, just for aluminum. Most of this electricity production did not exist a decade earlier. Aircraft assembly was pretty amazing and the quality was very high throughout the war.

    My Dad and Uncle survived the war as a paratrooper and a submariner which is pretty surprising. Both of them knew plenty of childhood friends who did not. People today would fall apart if anything like that ever happened.

    Since 2001, the US military has lost under 8,000 people and the left uses it as an excuse to surrender to our enemies. The Normandy landings on D-Day killed almost 4,500 Americans and wounded another 6,000. That was one single day, not 20 years.
     
    “who wishes to fight must first count the cost”
    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War


    People who live in imaginary or deluded worlds like Trouser Trout and Wade will always think event like WWII had nothing to do with them and had no effect on their lives, the rest of us know better.

    It is important to compile an accounting of the costs of war in lives and treasure. One incredible thing about WWI was the iron and steel production of America. 188,310,000 tons of hematite from the Mesabi range in Minnesota was mined from 1939-45, the entire supply that was forecasted to last generations was exhausted in six years. Today we make iron and steel from taconite.

    America was producing almost 1,000,000 tons of aluminum a year in WWII. This required 15,640,000 megawatt hours of electricity a year, just for aluminum. Most of this electricity production did not exist a decade earlier. Aircraft assembly was pretty amazing and the quality was very high throughout the war.

    My Dad and Uncle survived the war as a paratrooper and a submariner which is pretty surprising. Both of them knew plenty of childhood friends who did not. People today would fall apart if anything like that ever happened.

    Since 2001, the US military has lost under 8,000 people and the left uses it as an excuse to surrender to our enemies. The Normandy landings on D-Day killed almost 4,500 Americans and wounded another 6,000. That was one single day, not 20 years.

    Work on your reading comprehension

    Just because someone doesn’t dance around the flag for bush jr, or is all about the new thing for biden, doesn’t mean they don’t want any military at all, I don’t think you’re quite that stupid, guessing trolling?
     
    Yeah, that’s what I pay them to do, defend them country

    No issue if they are honestly on mission


    Really, you paid enough taxes to fund WWII? You really are part of a seriously deluded bunch.

    I somehow doubt you pay enough taxes to fund a PFC for two months in a year.

    What "ministry"? Seriously you need a head doctor to put your marbles back in the jar.
     
    Really, you paid enough taxes to fund WWII? You really are part of a seriously deluded bunch.

    I somehow doubt you pay enough taxes to fund a PFC for two months in a year.

    What "ministry"? Seriously you need a head doctor to put your marbles back in the jar.

    Why would any one citizen pay for a entire military? Quit eating paint chips

    We all pay taxes for large needs that are required for the nation as a whole, I’m sure they covered this if you weren’t busy eating the paste in school

    Those funds and fruits of main streets labors being used for something like WWII for the most part no one has a issue with, using that same military and funds to occupy random countries to get politicians rich many do have a issue with, there is a HUUGE difference

     
    Curtis LeMay, who is wrongly portrayed as a monster, was one of the most forward-thinking, cerebral and crew-focused generals in the AAC.

    He is the only general whose metric for success included “airmen lost per square mile/unit of enemy target destruction.”

    By the end of the war he had destroyed, almost completely, 60+ Cities and driven crew losses down to almost nil. IIRC, he razed 16 square miles of Tokyo on March 6 losing 5 planes.

    War is hell. Get it Over with faster and you save lives. Period.

    Remember that in ETO you had to complete 25 missions to rotate out of combat bombing. You had a 1 in 20 chance of being shot down each mission, early in the war. Yet they still went up despite the math.

    And many, after completing their 25 missions, signed up for another tour… because they didn’t want to leave their buddies.

    Anyone wants some good books on the subject, let me know and I’ll post.

    Sirhr
    yes please do and LeMay was the bomb (no pun intended) Total war means just that and it's the way every war should be fought
     
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