I am looking at a accuracy build and was down to thd decision of choosing a chamber. I am planning to order a 20 inch Krieger barrel from Compass Lake Engineering and can't decide on the chamber. CLE seems to push the CLE, but it seems the Wylde is much more popular. I am wondering if anyone has seen any kind of real world difference between the two. I like the Wylde because I know for a fact that it will shoot just about any kind of 223 or 5.56 ammo without a problem. I am not as sure about the CLE chamber. If there is not really any difference in accuracy, I will go with the Wylde.
- Thread starter bbush
- Start date
The CLE 5.56 chamber is more accurate with 55 and 62gr ammo or really all factory ammo loaded to mag length. The Wylde chamber was designed to allow loading the 69smk at longer than mag length for single feeding on the long line HP competitions. If you look at the specs the chambers are the same size, the only difference is the length of freebore.
I had an 18" Wylde from @Constructor that was a tack driver with everything I fed it, although that was all 62gr and up. The PPU 69gr match made it boring to shoot at 600 yards it was so accurate.
Dimensions
MM
MM
This table compared several popular chambers. You can see the Wylde is looser throughout the body than the CLE. The Wylde is popular because it works well but the CLE will shoot better on target out to 600 yards. Your brass has to be in better shape using a CLE, the wylde will feed most anything, that is really why its so popular. The freebore diameter and length is what the Wylde design changed from a NATO at the time. The CLE and Wylde are similar in these two areas but the body dimensions make the CLE shoot better and that is why Compass Lake tells their customers to use it, it's better, especially when most of their customers are using magazine length ammo. Using a 80 grainer longer than mag length is the only area where the Wylde might help, I saw better groups using a CLE with 80's.
National service rifle championships have been won using a Wylde but I bet more have been won using the CLE because of the tighter groups using magazine length bullets.
Last edited:
I switched over from Wylde to CLE on my last 2 barrels for High Power. Agree on a touch more accurate at 600 .
Most barrels will outshoot the shooter regardless of chamber.
Buy whatever and SHOOT it
Most barrels will outshoot the shooter regardless of chamber.
Buy whatever and SHOOT it
I would figure out bullet you want to fire out of it and get the chamber that makes the most sense, Using generalized info on the two chambers, I think that I prefer to run a wylde chamber in a more field oriented rifle, where as I think the CLE would make a little more sense for a pure accuracy build.
With that being said, I am not sure how much of a practical difference one would see down range with with either.
With that being said, I am not sure how much of a practical difference one would see down range with with either.
I was about to come on here and ask this same question. Thanks!
Well, I am now wondering how well the CLE chamber will handle factory 5.56 ammo? I think it is really considered a .223 chamber but it is my understanding that 5.56 ammo can be used in it. I just want to make sure that it isn't very picky if for some reason I find myself shooting 5.56 ammo through it.
Both the CLE and Wylde chambers were designed to run long 80 grain bullets at > mag length. 69 grain bullets are mag length bullets. If you were involved in highpower rifle/service rifle back in the 90s you would know that.
There's not a hill of beans difference in accuracy inherent in either, they are just as good as each other.
If you're seeing a difference in accuracy, it's because of something else.
You're worried about nothing
The CLE has a .025" freebore and the Wylde has a .062 freebore. It is easier to get bullets closer to the lands at mag length with the CLE. So far I have produced apx 70,000 barrels using both the Wylde and CLE chambers. 95% of everyone shooting ARs shoot ammo at mag length fed by mags. I think I have plenty of evidence to say the CLE is more accurate with factory ammo.
Less jump to the lands by no means correlates to better accuracy. Mark Gordon of Short Action Customs has published data that casts serious doubt on conventional wisdom.
Do you mind publishing your data?
How many barrels you've made or how many people shoot mag length ammo is all anecdotal information that's not really relevant to prove anything.
If I remember correctly, they have always used Wylde in the precision barrels.
As I said before I've been designing wildcats since 82, been a smith since 80 I think I'll rely on my experience and evidence rather than someone I don't know posting on the internet. How many of your customers have called or emailed you and said the Wylde were more accurate than CLEs? You use what you want to and give your opinion and everyone else is free to do the same.
For years (probably 15) I used Wylde chambers 69smks loaded to 2.28" with 24.5gr RE15 and they are damn accurate with those handloads. I can work up handloads to make almost anything accurate but when selling large numbers of barrels off the shelf I want something that is generally more accurate for what people are shooting and most are shooting 55 and 62gr FMJ with some shooting the 77s. I'm not making custom one off barrels but if I were I would still use a CLE especially since the tipped 77s are becoming more popular.
Frank is not steering the OP wrong. Do you think your buddy knows more than Frank White? Back in the 80s there were 3 guys making highpower barrels on decent sized scale, Frank, Derrick Martin and John Holliger and Frank was really making the barrels for John.
OP think about this. I've known Frank since the 80s, as a barrel maker he wants to sell you an accurate barrel. He has made his reputation off selling high quality barrels. No one wants to sell an inaccurate barrel and he is not going to intentionally point you in the wrong direction. I'll bet he has 15 or more different 223/5.56 reamers in the tool bin he could choose from and no difference in expense, why would he tell you one over the other?
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Most shooters can't hold the difference, just sayin'.
For gen-u-ine, accomplished match shooters that can hold the difference, the edge goes to the CLE chamber.
But for an everyday, run of the mill gun, not so much & the advantage for being less finicky with multiple type of ammo, the advantage goes to the Wylde.
JMHO, YMMV
MM
Last edited:
The barrels he sells really are better than the price reflects. I wish he still sold the 1-7.7 twist, 18” spr profile (.850 to the gas block) with 5/8x24 muzzles. I don’t like the criterion profiles. If he’d bring those back like he did the socom/recce 16”, I’d buy a few more of those.
I was given a barrel by NSWC, Crane to shoot in service rifle matches. I would take a picture of it but its under a float tube and i'm not disassembling a rifle for you. That barrel is a SAM-R and stamped USMC CLE K and Crane bought more of them than you ever will for a reason. The guy that gave me the barrel built 300WM rifles for 30 years. He was part of the testing of MK262 and many other things. Crane could have used ANY gunsmith in the country to make MK12/SAM-R barrels but they used CLE. There is your evidence if you care to be objective and admit you don't know what you don't know, there was a reason.
This was the ammo I signed dd1149s for to shoot in that barrel. Multiple lots over multiple years. I was there before MK262. There are people here that can tell the difference and its not something else its the fucking chamber. I didn't get a Distinguished Rifleman badge out of a cracker jack box. Frank White has a badge also. If its so easy then do it. shoot thousands of rounds in matches for years, compare notes with national champions, ask them what chamber they use and then comment.
Your 13000+ posts of bullshit doesn't mean you can shoot.
Last edited:
We'll see when things slow down, maybe 2022 . I had a ton of people calling wanting lighter weight 3gun barrels because they swing faster and accuracy isn't an issue shooting at most 3gun ranges so I changed to the tapered profile I am producing now. The barrels you are talking about were designed more for accuracy. All of the 3R barrels are 7.7 twist.
I was wondering why Frank laughed when I asked if the CLE chamber could shoot mk262...
Not only that but Frank White sent the guys to Quantico to teach them how to build an accurate rifle in the beginning of the MK12 program.
I know I'm a bit late to this party but Frank and Paul at Compass Lake will turn and contour/profile any barrel blank you want, there's no set profile.
I’ve bought one of his barrels before and it was a hammer. If I ever build another 20” 5.56 with pure accuracy as the goal, it’ll probably come from his shop or another from Krieger Direct.
The barrels I’ve gotten from Constructor, (223 wylde, 6.5 Grendel, and 308), have all shot in the .66-1moa range, are melonite treated, and cost significantly less than the CLE options.
