Your "Non Lethal" Weapon of choice (when you can't use a "lethal" one)

[Fx51LP308]

What's your "non lethal" weapon of choice for things like "home/property" defense when the situation has not yet escalated to "imminent threat of death or great bodily harm?" Say someone is trespassing on your "external" property (i.e. not yet "breaking in") in an effort to destroy that property or cause property damage (eg. a neighbor that doesn't like the fact that you put up security cameras on your property that the neighbor perceives is focused on them/their property). You catch the neighbor in the act of attempting to strike down the cameras and destroy them. Or a protestor that comes to deface your property with paint or other items (or knock down your fencing) in protest.

Since they haven't produced any lethal weapons, yet, legally, you can't shoot 'em or even produce yours (just ask Mark and Patricia McCloskey, the two lawyers of Missouri), unless, perhaps, you live in Texas and it's night time. So, given that your State laws may permit the use of "non-lethal" weapons and/or the appropriate level of "force" to stop the crime being attempted against you, what would be your "non-lethal" weapon of choice to deter that aggression and stop the neighbor?

 

[91Eunozs]

Verbal judo



”Stop! Or I’ll tell you to stop a second time!”

 

[mi650]

My dogs. I have 3, totaling about 500 lbs.

People tend to shy away from them.

 

[Jigstick]

Just had a guy try forcing entry into my house last Saturday evening. 4 years of Jiu Jitsu kicked in. A wrist lock and osoto gari sweep dumped him on his head and out of the doorway in a split second. Was able to secure the door and retrieve a firearm which got him on his way.

 

[7.62willdo]

A sharply worded MEME……l

 

[remmynikon.308]

Never done it myself, but always figured getting hit with a rubber blunt on an arrow would be a hell of a deterrent

 

[Rthur]

Hardcore roll of the eyes.

R

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Monadnock. I drilled mine with a 1/4 x 20 threaded hole and it has a camera mount on top. And a sticker that says Nikon. Camera monopod.

And a monadnock head or neck strike is considered using lethal force. So fuck non lethal.

Cheers, Sirhr

 

[Yasherka]

Louisville Slugger

 

[AMGtuned]

The "no trespassing" signs, and purple paint, that are already there for all to see.






Next warning is a bullet.

 

[psharon78]

the lock on my door

 

[candyx]

Got to many weapons that need their cherry broke so I took the locks off my doors.......

 

[34vld]

a recording of a baby crying

 

[texastonk]

Come at me Bro

 

[Haney]

I have a natural moat around my property , dogs will be waiting on dry land . We have not had a single visitor in many years .

 

[JIMB3AM]

Though I can’t say she’s NOT leathal…

 

[FWoo45]

Garden gnomes full of tannerite and roofing nails?

 

[Pharmseller]

I sing Donna Summer songs at them.

Dissipate like a fart in the wind.




P

 

[Fig]

I consider a short burst non-lethal.

 

[rtB]

I put one of these on my door and no one stops by for some reason:

 

[Fx51LP308]

Louisville Slugger

Considered a lethal weapon in some states or, at least, by some DAs. Same thing as a Billy Club.

the lock on my door

Irrelevant. The crime is occurring outside the dwelling but on the property. The property is being damaged/destroyed. Now, if they attempt to enter the dwelling forcibly, all bets are off and castle doctrine kicks in.

Them being armed is not a prerequisite for using force...never has been...

4-5 unarmed guys can kill you as easily as 1 guy with a knife.

Hell, an unarmed guy whos 2x your size can kill you just as easily.

And you can 100% draw your firearm to prevent what you feel may be a threat to your life.

But it has to rise to that level of threat. It has to meet A-O-J criteria. In this case, it has not. And, of course, I understand about "disparity of force," etc., but we're not talking about that in this case. We are talking simply about someone attempting to destroy your personal property located on the outside of your dwelling. They haven't yet turned and made furtive movements towards you. They just keep attempting to destroy your property. That's their mission. Take out those cameras. Not cause you any physical harm. unless they have to. Criminals are smart. They know how much they can get away with before one would be authorized to use/threaten to use deadly force. So they keep their activities just below that red line.

The McCluskey's were only charged because of politics..

Politics is enough, sometimes. In my former State (PRNJ), no matter if you were totally in the right, you'd be charged anyway. They're just trying to discourage self-defense.

And yes, a group of people trespassing and damaging property is generally grounds to at least draw a weapon in most states....as they are acting in a aggressive manner that a reasonable person could assume would also apply themselves...

Not in Florida - and certainly not with an aggressive DA in Florida. You can only draw based on an attack against your person (or another protectee's person), not your property. That's one of the problems we have, for example, with defending pets from attack. Pets are considered property and not afforded the protections given to people. Now what we try to do in this case is stand in between the pet and the perp. Then it does become an attack on someone's person.

But if you don't feel justified in drawing a gun....industrial quantities of mace are available.
View attachment 8361082

Now, that might actually work! I don't know it it's legal or not but, perhaps, private ownership of a Taser or something?

 

[Makinchips208]

If it’s on my property at night I can use whatever I feel like.

Otherwise I’m usually surrounded by weapons…

Whatever it takes to win, be good at deescalation, but if that isn’t gonna work, I escalate quickly.


Check your local laws, it may be “criminal trespass”. So if they are criminally trespassing, “damage” has a legal definition, this certainly would be damage. In this case maybe you can escalate a bit irregardless of whether you say they have a “deadly weapon”

 

[101st]

Endorsed by Sean Hannity.

 

[MK20]

What kind of stupid state do you live in where lethal force is not justified to defend property?

Up here in ID a guy walked out to the mall parking lot to find someone trying to break into his truck. He shot the guy and the cops came, asked him what happened, and bid him a good day. Didn't even detain him.

 

[Fx51LP308]

What kind of stupid state do you live in where lethal force is not justified to defend property?

Florida.

Up here in ID a guy walked out to the mall parking lot to find someone trying to break into his truck. He shot the guy and the cops came, asked him what happened, and bid him a good day. Didn't even detain him.

That would not fly down here. Even if the cops did let the shooter go, the DA's office, after review, would most likely charge them later on.

 

[MK20]

Well, get better DAs.

 

[Fx51LP308]

If it’s on my property at night I can use whatever I feel like.

Otherwise I’m usually surrounded by weapons…

Whatever it takes to win, be good at deescalation, but if that isn’t gonna work, I escalate quickly.


Check your local laws, it may be “criminal trespass”. So if they are criminally trespassing, “damage” has a legal definition, this certainly would be damage. In this case maybe you can escalate a bit irregardless of whether you say they have a “deadly weapon”

I believe Texas also has a similar law. Florida does not.

 

[jff_stvns]

What kind of stupid state do you live in where lethal force is not justified to defend property?

Up here in ID a guy walked out to the mall parking lot to find someone trying to break into his truck. He shot the guy and the cops came, asked him what happened, and bid him a good day. Didn't even detain him.

As a general rule you cannot use lethal deadly force to defend property. Now if your in the vehicle and someone is breaking in and your state has castle doctrine that’s a green light. That’s how the state of Florida sees it. Oh by the way just because one guy walks does not mean the next guy will, study your state law with a fine tooth comb. Stealing your property is not life threatening if the crook is un armed.

 

[Fx51LP308]

A person on your property armed with some type of implement (shovel, bat, crowbar) to destroy property IS a threat to your wellbeing...they don't have to be coming at you for you to have a weapon drawn...

Using lethal force, different story.

But I'm legally allowed to carry a weapon generally in any manner I see fit anywhere on my property...with or without a trespasser present.

In public that may be a different matter.

In Florida, the drawing/pointing of a weapon is considered "Use of deadly force," just as much as actually shooting/using it. You could be charged with aggravated battery. That's why they say (unofficially), "if you feel you need to draw your weapon, be ready to fire it and deal with the consequences, later." And, if that be the case, probably better (again, unofficially) to "neutralize" the perp(s) fatally. "Dead men tell no tales."

 

[Fx51LP308]

As a general rule you cannot use lethal deadly force to defend property. Now if your in the vehicle and someone is breaking in and your state has castle doctrine that’s a green light. That’s how the state of Florida sees it.

Agreed. Only if you are inside the vehicle when attacked.

 

[Snipe260]

Sledgehammer!

 

[brianf]

There’s a really good show /videos of a security person testing “all these mean protective dogs”.

The owners leave a back door open and the guy tries to get in the house

99.9 percent of dogs bark like nuts but back away as the guys walks in. Some follow him around lol

Being a pet they are trained by us not to bite etc

It’s really funny when a guy has a big rotty etc and he’s all excited that it’s going to kill anyone and the walks out of the house with something.

 

[Fx51LP308]

There’s a really good show /videos of a security person testing “all these mean protective dogs”.

The owners leave a back door open and the guy tries to get in the house

99.9 percent of dogs bark like nuts but back away as the guys walks in. Some follow him around lol

Being a pet they are trained by us not to bite etc

It’s really funny when a guy has a big rotty etc and he’s all excited that it’s going to kill anyone and the walks out of the house with something.

And the other problem being, the perp can sue the homeowner if bitten by the dog and, thus, affecting the homeowner's insurance, etc. etc.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Neighbor = best to call the police and file charges.
"protester" vandals and threats, it depends on who your local Uniform Hangers support.

 

[Romeo458]

An axe. One sides not sharp, if I hit you with that side first that's your warning.

 

[Arc Light]

I consider a short burst non-lethal.

The leftist retard who burned himself to death in front of the Israeli embassy begs to differ

 

[Blue Sky Country]

Fenix UC35V2.0 flashlight on 1000 lumen strobe or PD35V3 on 1700 lumen strobe, along with a "YO!!!" if necessary.

Love the dual control tailcap main switch + upper selection button 18650 platform and I've always stuck with them even though much more powerful, but also bulkier 21700 fueled 10,000+ lumen photon cannons have been available for years now. 1000 to 2000 lumens is already stupid powerful bright for most situations, like knock a crackhead on his ass bright. If I am working on something with the unit running on 50 lumens and I suddenly need to strobe somebody far off to warn them of active vehicle movement or let a potential trespasser know that they've been spotted and get off shop property, hold down the upper mode selection switch and you instantly got turbo mode on strobe, release and I am back on 50 lumen work mode. And 18650 platforms are dual fuel, meaning I can use a high cap rechargeable battery with insane MAH, or in an emergency switch to two CR123 cells that I always keep on my belt next to the light at all times...

 

[Fig]

That was a thermos of gasoline; totally different.

 

[dirtybores]

The comment above about a high lumen throw light is good one. That is what I grab first. It buys time and situational understanding, allowing for maneuver and decision making.

 

[Blue Sky Country]

That was a thermos of gasoline; totally different.

I wonder if it was a Stanley cup he used. FUUUCK, Stanley would be facing an utter tsunami of memes if it is.

 

[918v]

I suggest the OP not take legal advice with regards to use of force from people on the internet.

 

[918v]

If I caught my neighbor trying to knock down my camera I would let him and call the cops. The state doesn’t like it when you put your hands on anyone. It’s better if cops do it. Also, a camera isn’t worth a lawsuit or you getting hurt or arrested and prosecuted. These things often escalate to something that ends up costing you 1000x the value of the camera.

 

[theLBC]

stink finger

 

[jff_stvns]

Bear spray ! It generally is not controlled by Volume and sticks like glue.

 

[Fx51LP308]

I suggest the OP not take legal advice with regards to use of force from people on the internet.

I don't. It's why I have one of those legal service protection things.

 

[918v]

I don't. It's why I have one of those legal service protection things.

Attorneys on retainer?

 

[918v]

Another concern is why your neighbor doesn’t want your camera capturing people entering his property.

Could be he’s associating with criminals. Could be he’s a criminal. Could be you’ll get your ass kicked by him or his friends while protecting your camera. Could get out of control real quick.

 

[Fx51LP308]

Attorneys on retainer?

Not them, but I'm seriously considering joining them at my next renewal.

 

[Fig]

Bear spray ! It generally is not controlled by Volume and sticks like glue.

Totally serious, bear spray is not a good choice.

Bears experience the world 80% through their nose. It is far more critical to them than their poor eye sight. Bear spray is a fine capsicum mist, and the correct use of it is to make a wall of mist between you and the bear. It will stay floating there for quite a while. If/when the bear charges he goes through the mist, and it essentially blinds him by blinding his nose, not by swelling his eyes shut. The shock of suddenly not being able to smell is what turns the charge, not that it's visually blinded or really feels a lot of pain.

Humans operate 90% on sight. That's why the human spray is a stream of foam that sticks to your face and gets in your eyes swelling them shut. The foam spray that the cops target on a perp's eyes is the most effective way to use it to incapacitate someone. The bear spray would be about like mace. Yea, it's uncomfortable and stings, but it's not going to stop someone who's dander is up and really wants to hurt you.

I've gotten blow back from bear spray, and while it was definitely uncomfortable I could still see and fight for sure. That foam gets in your eyes and not only are you blinded, it's an attitude changer. The natural urge to rub your eyes makes it worse instantly and they swell shut faster. If water is right-there you're still looking at 15 minutes of incapacitation and sheer agony.

 

[MK20]

An electric leaf blower with a pipe that contains a CS grenade attached to the outlet is very effective.

I can attest.

It will fog about half an acre quite effectively, lol.