Rifle Scopes Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
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Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
Hell of a nice scope, you won't be disappointed. Make sure you're getting a mil/mil one and the reticle you want and you're sure to be happy.
Have you considered a Hensoldt? I'm looking forward to trying one of them.
Hell of a nice scope, you won't be disappointed. Make sure you're getting a mil/mil one and the reticle you want and you're sure to be happy.
Have you considered a Hensoldt? I'm looking forward to trying one of them.
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THUNDERBOLT68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing about the Hensoldt is does not has zero stop</div></div>
It has enough of one to fit my needs in the fact that it won't make a full turn past zero. I can see the guys that need to shoot in the dark needing a zero they can find without looking, but I'm not one of them. If I miss zero and get a half a turn past and the knob stops, I'll just go the other direction until I get back to 0.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THUNDERBOLT68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing about the Hensoldt is does not has zero stop</div></div>
It has enough of one to fit my needs in the fact that it won't make a full turn past zero. I can see the guys that need to shoot in the dark needing a zero they can find without looking, but I'm not one of them. If I miss zero and get a half a turn past and the knob stops, I'll just go the other direction until I get back to 0.
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
The SSG and SSG-P Hensoldts have zero stops, plus an illuminated index reticle that tells you where the elevation turret is set.
I find the S&B 4-16x50mm PMII to be a very good optic. After using a few USO ST-10s and an MST-100 on different rifles, the PMII seems like a large scope. Choose the reticle carefully and make sure you have milliradian units on the turret too. I find the turret clicks to be a little too close together and I sometimes overshoot, occasionally without noticing my error. The magnification range is a useful one, even for long range shooting. The 5-25x is a considerably larger optic but the increase in magnification can be useful.
I used to have a 3-12x50mm PMII with an MTC elevation knob. With the recent issue with the Premier Reticle click mechanism and parts replacement, I wonder about the longevity of the MTC mechanism, which may use a similar design and part. Just wondering, I've never heard of a problem with the MTC click mechanism wearing out. I traded it for another Hensoldt SSG-P.
There are some great prices out there on new S&Bs right now that we may not see again after the dollar tanks and inflation hits in the next year or two. Mile High Shooting has a nice sale on the 4-16X and Matt in Virginia has a great price on the 4-16x42mm with Gen 2 XL reticle.
The SSG and SSG-P Hensoldts have zero stops, plus an illuminated index reticle that tells you where the elevation turret is set.
I find the S&B 4-16x50mm PMII to be a very good optic. After using a few USO ST-10s and an MST-100 on different rifles, the PMII seems like a large scope. Choose the reticle carefully and make sure you have milliradian units on the turret too. I find the turret clicks to be a little too close together and I sometimes overshoot, occasionally without noticing my error. The magnification range is a useful one, even for long range shooting. The 5-25x is a considerably larger optic but the increase in magnification can be useful.
I used to have a 3-12x50mm PMII with an MTC elevation knob. With the recent issue with the Premier Reticle click mechanism and parts replacement, I wonder about the longevity of the MTC mechanism, which may use a similar design and part. Just wondering, I've never heard of a problem with the MTC click mechanism wearing out. I traded it for another Hensoldt SSG-P.
There are some great prices out there on new S&Bs right now that we may not see again after the dollar tanks and inflation hits in the next year or two. Mile High Shooting has a nice sale on the 4-16X and Matt in Virginia has a great price on the 4-16x42mm with Gen 2 XL reticle.
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
Ive personally used leupold, nightforce, and us optics. I recently purchased a S&B 4-16x50 from a hide member, and I love the thing. It's pretty freakin' expensive but it's well worth the money once you see the quality in the craftsmanship put into it. I'm pretty much torn between USO and S&B, both are outstanding scopes. I give the S&B a fingernails width ahead for clarity. As other members have said, just make sure you get the mil/mil and not a mil/moa setup. Ive used mil/moa for years and its just so much easier with the mil/mil setup.
Ive personally used leupold, nightforce, and us optics. I recently purchased a S&B 4-16x50 from a hide member, and I love the thing. It's pretty freakin' expensive but it's well worth the money once you see the quality in the craftsmanship put into it. I'm pretty much torn between USO and S&B, both are outstanding scopes. I give the S&B a fingernails width ahead for clarity. As other members have said, just make sure you get the mil/mil and not a mil/moa setup. Ive used mil/moa for years and its just so much easier with the mil/mil setup.
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
Fastford, the 4-16x50 is a great scope. I own 3 of them and regularly shoot them out to 1K without any problems. My slowest rifle is a 308 shooting 155gr Scenars at 2800fps and have plenty of elevation to reach the 1K mark traveling supersonically.
The only complaint that I hear is that there "is not enough elevation". Given your rifle's ballistics, check the drop table and verify that you have enough elevation on the scope (S&B claims 13 mil, I actually have 13.4 mil in each of mine) to get you where you want to go. 13 mils should be more than enough for 98% of whats out there in a rifle.
Fastford, the 4-16x50 is a great scope. I own 3 of them and regularly shoot them out to 1K without any problems. My slowest rifle is a 308 shooting 155gr Scenars at 2800fps and have plenty of elevation to reach the 1K mark traveling supersonically.
The only complaint that I hear is that there "is not enough elevation". Given your rifle's ballistics, check the drop table and verify that you have enough elevation on the scope (S&B claims 13 mil, I actually have 13.4 mil in each of mine) to get you where you want to go. 13 mils should be more than enough for 98% of whats out there in a rifle.
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
I have a 4-16x42 single turn CCW Mil knob with the Gen II XL reticle: still the finest tactical setup you can get, in my opinion.
The 4-16x42 scope looks more proportional than the x50, the x50 doesn't have a noticeable advantage in exit pupil, and you can't mount either one any lower than the lowest set of 34mm rings available, so pick the elevation knob setup that you like and go with that.
I have a 4-16x42 single turn CCW Mil knob with the Gen II XL reticle: still the finest tactical setup you can get, in my opinion.
The 4-16x42 scope looks more proportional than the x50, the x50 doesn't have a noticeable advantage in exit pupil, and you can't mount either one any lower than the lowest set of 34mm rings available, so pick the elevation knob setup that you like and go with that.
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
I do not know. If you listen to other members of hide, they are saying that bushnell, leupold, super sniper, tasco, etc... are just as good as these scopes that you are talking about. ( S&B, USO, Hensolt. ) LOL!!! LOL !!! LOL !!!!
I do not know. If you listen to other members of hide, they are saying that bushnell, leupold, super sniper, tasco, etc... are just as good as these scopes that you are talking about. ( S&B, USO, Hensolt. ) LOL!!! LOL !!! LOL !!!!
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
Oh sorry about the miss info on stops I will check info better next time.
Oh sorry about the miss info on stops I will check info better next time.
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
Graham,
I was recently doing some scope shopping, and considered briefly the S&B 4–16 x 42 PM II LP. I went with another brand, because what deterred me was the twin hits of price and adjustment range.
I understand why they cost what they do, not quibbling, but I could not wrap my head around 46.8" (13 mils) of adjustment in S&B's mil/mil version.
Maybe I'm making too much of it, but I also have a Bushnell 6-24x50mm 4200 Tactical for one of my rimfires. The biggest knock on the Bushy was an adjustment range of "only" 50 inches. Many folks here think (not necessary you) that's unacceptable for a Tactical scope. Yet, the S&B rates raves with even less range. Certainly the raves come from areas other than adjustment range, but still......
I'm not trying to compare a Bushnell with an S&B, just a reflection on what the collective thought of a "bad" or inadequate adjustment range really is.
Perhaps I'm missing something, and adjustment range is less important than I thought it was: or is their a bias that clouds evaluations when spending $2500. on a scope, that must mean it is defacto great regardless of any other considerations?
I'm not having any buyer's remorse for not purchasing an S&B 4-16, but I am wondering if my evaluation criteria is flawed; and I ignored the S&B's obvious virtues, for a make-believe vice.
Comments?
Thanks,
Bob
Graham,
I was recently doing some scope shopping, and considered briefly the S&B 4–16 x 42 PM II LP. I went with another brand, because what deterred me was the twin hits of price and adjustment range.
I understand why they cost what they do, not quibbling, but I could not wrap my head around 46.8" (13 mils) of adjustment in S&B's mil/mil version.
Maybe I'm making too much of it, but I also have a Bushnell 6-24x50mm 4200 Tactical for one of my rimfires. The biggest knock on the Bushy was an adjustment range of "only" 50 inches. Many folks here think (not necessary you) that's unacceptable for a Tactical scope. Yet, the S&B rates raves with even less range. Certainly the raves come from areas other than adjustment range, but still......
I'm not trying to compare a Bushnell with an S&B, just a reflection on what the collective thought of a "bad" or inadequate adjustment range really is.
Perhaps I'm missing something, and adjustment range is less important than I thought it was: or is their a bias that clouds evaluations when spending $2500. on a scope, that must mean it is defacto great regardless of any other considerations?
I'm not having any buyer's remorse for not purchasing an S&B 4-16, but I am wondering if my evaluation criteria is flawed; and I ignored the S&B's obvious virtues, for a make-believe vice.
Comments?
Thanks,
Bob
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
The 4-16x42 was built for a purpose and that purpose didn't include ELR. It's a nice, compact scope designed for a two-way rifle range.
I like the lower profile knob, and I happen to like the adjustments on it (although some people with bigger fingers say the adjustments are too close together).
I get just under 14 mils useable with mine, on a -20 base. When I add the 5 mils in the reticle I have 18+ Mils of elevation available.
I don't shoot my .308 much past 1000 anyway, except for fun, but I could - and well into the subsonic range of the bullet. At 1000 I dial 9.5 Mils with VLD's, closer to 11 with factory ammo, and I've never topped out.
In comparison, my NF 5.5-22 that I use for ELR tops out at around 69 MOA on the knob. So, for me, and for the sake of an extra 4 Mils on the top end, the 'lack of adjustability' of the SB really isn't an issue.
The 4-16x42 was built for a purpose and that purpose didn't include ELR. It's a nice, compact scope designed for a two-way rifle range.
I like the lower profile knob, and I happen to like the adjustments on it (although some people with bigger fingers say the adjustments are too close together).
I get just under 14 mils useable with mine, on a -20 base. When I add the 5 mils in the reticle I have 18+ Mils of elevation available.
I don't shoot my .308 much past 1000 anyway, except for fun, but I could - and well into the subsonic range of the bullet. At 1000 I dial 9.5 Mils with VLD's, closer to 11 with factory ammo, and I've never topped out.
In comparison, my NF 5.5-22 that I use for ELR tops out at around 69 MOA on the knob. So, for me, and for the sake of an extra 4 Mils on the top end, the 'lack of adjustability' of the SB really isn't an issue.
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
I think this is the best scope S&B make , about the only slightly negiative thing people will say is its a little limited in the amount of E for the big long range cals , like the 338LM .
It is a shame that for the longer range options they donot make this scope with a double turn mil turret .
But for most aps this scope is more than enough .
Later Chris
I think this is the best scope S&B make , about the only slightly negiative thing people will say is its a little limited in the amount of E for the big long range cals , like the 338LM .
It is a shame that for the longer range options they donot make this scope with a double turn mil turret .
But for most aps this scope is more than enough .
Later Chris
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
I can't see where you would need more than 13 mils of elevation with most short action cartridges.
I had DT Heritage. From my 100 yds zero I had 25 mils of travel left. I traded it for a 15 mil ST heritage. The knob is lower profile and I still have enough elevation to get me farther than I'll ever shoot.
If I ever buy another top tier scope it'll be a 4-16 S&B with a mil ccw st knob.
I can't see where you would need more than 13 mils of elevation with most short action cartridges.
I had DT Heritage. From my 100 yds zero I had 25 mils of travel left. I traded it for a 15 mil ST heritage. The knob is lower profile and I still have enough elevation to get me farther than I'll ever shoot.
If I ever buy another top tier scope it'll be a 4-16 S&B with a mil ccw st knob.
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
good discussions, I have a 4-16x42 also and love it, the glass IS that good and the clicks are very good, I dont know how necessary the ilumination is, I feel the knob gets in the way more than it helps IMHO....I want to purchase two more!!
good discussions, I have a 4-16x42 also and love it, the glass IS that good and the clicks are very good, I dont know how necessary the ilumination is, I feel the knob gets in the way more than it helps IMHO....I want to purchase two more!!
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thiking about picking one p and wanted your opinions on it!
Chris </div></div>
Really nice Optic and gunsight. The one's I've shot with have been top notch. They are very very good scopes, you won't be disappointed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thiking about picking one p and wanted your opinions on it!
Chris </div></div>
Really nice Optic and gunsight. The one's I've shot with have been top notch. They are very very good scopes, you won't be disappointed.
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
The Best scope money can buy!!!
P4Fine
Single turn
Get in touch with Adam @ BauerArms
The Best scope money can buy!!!
P4Fine
Single turn
Get in touch with Adam @ BauerArms
Re: Your thoughts on the S&B 4x16x50
Second Jason's comments
select carefully then enjoy it
Bill
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hell of a nice scope, you won't be disappointed. Make sure you're getting a mil/mil one and the reticle you want and you're sure to be happy.
Have you considered a Hensoldt? I'm looking forward to trying one of them. </div></div>
Second Jason's comments
select carefully then enjoy it
Bill
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hell of a nice scope, you won't be disappointed. Make sure you're getting a mil/mil one and the reticle you want and you're sure to be happy.
Have you considered a Hensoldt? I'm looking forward to trying one of them. </div></div>
