Why would you waste money on 7000 series aluminum for a non structural part (the lower)?
Stupid
- Thread starter ckirkc
- Start date
Why would you waste money on 7000 series aluminum for a non structural part (the lower)?
Stupid
The forging itself is most certainly a purchased item
Why? Why waste $ on 7000 series AL for a non load bearing part (the lower)
LOL that's now how this works. That's not how any of this works.
Finishing work (IE machining of forging). Sorry I should have been more specific.
Which ones? Linear or geometric? And what about basic dimensions? Don't they have an effect too?
And before I forget, how about datum selection? And work holding tooling design and manufacture. I bet that has an effect as well.
The rest of the post also said with modern cncing not as much of a factor. Also purely a subjective idea and preference. It’s a feel good thing. Nothing more. Opinion not fact.
Well everyone has to start somewhere.That dude has 156 whole subscribers to his YT channel.
If I’m spending 2k plus on a rifle I expect it.
Again in a poverty pony (PSA) is 7000 series, higher end rifle should meet or beat that spec
All I got is clear video and emails from G (see the video I linked) plus the endless G fuck up threads on here. But hey, white knight G, maybe they’ll give you a free hat
Let me let you in on a little secret: many people who outsource machined parts then complain that quality sucks actually provide shitty drawings, unclear or subjective standards, and don't really know how to deal with subcontractors.
So, whenever you hear "I had to bring parts in because quality sucked" you're only getting one side of the story that actually has two.
So if you’re claiming to be tier 1, don’t outsource
Both geometric and linear. Basic dimensions will have no effect since it's just a calling out nominal. Datum selection/structure, in my opinion, falls under correct tolerancing.
My point being, with good tolerancing and inspection then the fit, form and function of the receivers will be controlled and nothing significant is gained from machining from the same block.
You do know that JP doesn’t actually make anything and just assembles outsourced components right?
Could be something to do with some sort of durability testing that was done? I always wondered if there's a report that breaks down the material selection process for parts like these. I feel like a fiber reinforced plastic could meet or probably exceed the requirements while being cheaper to produce. The trick may be in the smaller features though...
Or it's probably 70xx for marketing and that's what consumers want to see. *Shrug*
See post #60. JP specs their stuff in a way that gets them the tolerances and surface prep that they want. The proof's in the pudding. Clearly they're doing something right, because their guns are not only gorgeous, but most importantly because you never, and I mean never hear of a JP that doesn't shoot significantly sub-MOA, or one that doesn't run reliably.
I understand that. But the other poster tried to present outsourcing as some kind of gotcha and that they can’t be a top tier brand if they do it(hint: they all do to some extent)
They don’t machine parts or turn barrels.
And as was stated, for about the same G price point, you don’t see these issues with JP
So outsourcing isn’t an issue and your just flinging shit at the wall?
No?
JP reached out to him after the video went up, but he hasn’t posted an update showing a resolution yet.
Edit to add: Every JP I’ve personally had the opportunity to shoot has been a laser beam.
Point is every brand will have something slip through the cracks, so speaking in absolutes is just dumb.
And JP will probably make (or has made) things right with the gun in the vid above.
Out of my JPs, I had one that I wasn’t happy with, they asked the issue, sent me RO right quick, fixed it, done.
For every 1 JP issue thread it seems there are like 100 G issues
It would be interesting to know the total number of rifles G and JP each shipped in the last 18 months.
And the percentage of JP rifles that are built to order for a specific customer vs “ready rifles” sold off the rack.
Basic/nominal dimensions have a significant influence in the fit of two mating parts. They establish what is a clearance, close, or interference fit. All the other stuff just modifies the fit or establishes a range for it.
That's a shame for the prices they command.
If they can't get the colors right, what else in the QC dept. was skipped?
If they can't get the colors right, what else in the QC dept. was skipped?
Hm, I'm not sure how common or uncommon it is but I've run across some drawings that I'd argue that the fit is set by the tolerances.
As an example if I have a 0.5in (nominal) pin going into a 0.5 hole, the tolerance range set on those features is what will determine the fit not the nominal. Say the hole has a +-.000 tolerance (not a great practice but bear with me) on the ID and the pin has a +.000/-.003 tolerance on the OD Obviously that's either line on line or close fit. However if we set the tolerance of that pin to +.003/+.001 then the fit is changed. It's not the way I would design and dimension a part but I have seen it.
EDIT: To add, thinking about it a bit more, the reasoning for that dimensioning scheme could be for analysis setup reasons.
We're saying the same thing
Now take it the other way.... .500 +/- .0002 pin, .625 +/- .0001 hole.
Both very tightly toleranced, fit so loose it's like tossing a hotdog down main street
More dumb shit comments from people who don't understand what they are talking about.
Fucking blind leading the blind around here.
So we have complaints of Tanodize not matching after Geissele being incredibly upfront about this and a video of a guy with a sub 1.5 MOA rifle that is upset because Geissele isn’t honoring an accuracy guarantee he made up in his head?
Is this why people are getting so worked up?
Is this why people are getting so worked up?
People who don't have the foggiest idea how any of this works running their cock holsters, just like on AR15.com thread.
They don't understand a duty grade gun speced for reliability over accuracy, shooting garbage ammo could be 4moa. They have no actual gun fighting or combat experience otherwise they would understand issue weapon + issue ammo is like a 2-4 MOA combination at best. 4 MOA will stil l get you COM hits at 300M with slow aimed fire which is about the practical range of a M4 for point fire.
There are THOUSANDS of URGI uppers in the hands of SOCOM and the ranger regiments have been running them as standard issue for years. The most heavily deployed, combat experienced units in the entire world (RGT) with more raids and hits on targets than anyone run this equipment in the most austere environments in the world, but some jerk off fuck on the internet who doesn't even shoot knows more than them?
Then we get to hear from more non shooters how JP is a better fighting gun because he likes how accurate it is in the 20 or 30 rounds a year he shoots out of one. Has no experience with anything else but saw a youtube video with 150 followers and thinks he knows more than people who eat breath and shit this stuff for decades.
They don't understand a duty grade gun speced for reliability over accuracy, shooting garbage ammo could be 4moa. They have no actual gun fighting or combat experience otherwise they would understand issue weapon + issue ammo is like a 2-4 MOA combination at best. 4 MOA will stil l get you COM hits at 300M with slow aimed fire which is about the practical range of a M4 for point fire.
There are THOUSANDS of URGI uppers in the hands of SOCOM and the ranger regiments have been running them as standard issue for years. The most heavily deployed, combat experienced units in the entire world (RGT) with more raids and hits on targets than anyone run this equipment in the most austere environments in the world, but some jerk off fuck on the internet who doesn't even shoot knows more than them?
Then we get to hear from more non shooters how JP is a better fighting gun because he likes how accurate it is in the 20 or 30 rounds a year he shoots out of one. Has no experience with anything else but saw a youtube video with 150 followers and thinks he knows more than people who eat breath and shit this stuff for decades.
Geissele only supplied charging handles and rails for URG-I and they were assembled by SOCOM armorers so I’m not sure if it is as big of a feather in Geissele’s cap as you make it out to be. There are some very serious organizations moving to Geissele complete rifles though.
A fighting rifle JP is not. Like I said earlier, they target different customers.
A fighting rifle JP is not. Like I said earlier, they target different customers.
I think they supplied entire uppers with DD barrels but its been a while.
The URG-Is used to have DD barrels, and then Geissele bought a hammer forge and now they use their own in the "near clones" they sell. I think the actual contract uppers are still a collaboration with DD.
Your recent vacation didn't help any, still an asshole. Hopefully your next will be permanent.
G giving a blanket statement allowing them to send out mismatched colors doesn't give them a pass. They charge a premium, the product needs to reflect that. They are also no stranger to pulling shenanigans with the AR world, starting to take the course Colt did.
In closing, welcome to my ignore list, you will join the ranks of commies, libtards and other trolls.
I am sorry your heels don't match your purse.Your recent vacation didn't help any, still an asshole. Hopefully your next will be permanent.
G giving a blanket statement allowing them to send out mismatched colors doesn't give them a pass. They charge a premium, the product needs to reflect that. They are also no stranger to pulling shenanigans with the AR world, starting to take the course Colt did.
In closing, welcome to my ignore list, you will join the ranks of commies, libtards and other trolls.
Muh Colerz dunt MatCH.
Your recent vacation didn't help any, still an asshole. Hopefully your next will be permanent.
G giving a blanket statement allowing them to send out mismatched colors doesn't give them a pass. They charge a premium, the product needs to reflect that. They are also no stranger to pulling shenanigans with the AR world, starting to take the course Colt did.
In closing, welcome to my ignore list, you will join the ranks of commies, libtards and other trolls.
So real talk, why it such a concern that the colors don’t match? I don’t get it. Lots of “Premium” rifles don’t color match perfect like the Scar, Q Honey Badger etc. The finish is more durable than a matching cerakote would be.
Real talk is they don't have any idea what they are talking about, and harp in on trivial, non material shit like anodizing variation.
If they actually shot, they wouldn't care. But since they are non shooters they just bitch on the internet because going outside is scary.
If they actually shot, they wouldn't care. But since they are non shooters they just bitch on the internet because going outside is scary.
They get a pass because they decide what is or isn't wrong. If you don't like it, take your money elsewhere.
Your complaints will fit in well at m4carbine.douche and at ar15.dumbass
Some customers are never missed.
I’ll say it louder for those in the back. It’s the entire fucking purpose.
Don't forget them rebranding metal gi mags and selling them for 3x the price. Haha. They make nice stuff. Some I'll buy and some I won't.Your recent vacation didn't help any, still an asshole. Hopefully your next will be permanent.
G giving a blanket statement allowing them to send out mismatched colors doesn't give them a pass. They charge a premium, the product needs to reflect that. They are also no stranger to pulling shenanigans with the AR world, starting to take the course Colt did.
In closing, welcome to my ignore list, you will join the ranks of commies, libtards and other trolls.
They could designate types of colors, generations, number them, etc. You know, like when you walk into Lowes to find a color you want to paint your wall. Instead they have people like the OP that gets confused, easy solution as mentioned above.
I'd never buy a Scar or any Q product, nothing premium about those except the price.
I use their SSA-E's as I know they are good triggers. Even though my only TT kicks it's ass, I don't have enough rounds on the TT to confirm its good for the long run. The rest of their stuff is average imo.
Assholes coming out of the wood work. Ya'll should take the senseless shit talking and name calling to barfcom, nobody wants to hear that childish mess and it adds nothing to this site.
Yes, my hard earned money does the talking. When my parts get sent out, they return the right color.
That statement is 100% correct”There are just as many shitty billet receiver sets as their are shitty finished forging out there” I bought a Wilson Combat billet set to build my ultimate AR only to receive a upper and lower that fit worst than my Aero set I bought separately. I was so disappointed thinking WC would have great QC. not!!! Still not the best fit even after I sent it back and they matched another upper to it. I know it doesn’t matter if it rattles a bit. But when you spend over $400 on a matched receiver set from a company like Wilson Combat you expect more.
No dog in this fight but that's a genius way to avoid having to worry about color variations between batches. I'm surprised FN didn't put that out about the SCAR. It's not a bug....its a feature. LOL
They already do that. They list OD, DDC and Luna Black. Any further differentiation is irrelevant to professional users.
This discussion is obviously not gonna go anywhere lol.
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