Gunsmithing Action Refinish?

[FourT6and2]

My rifle is almost due for a re-barrel. Might as well refinish the action at the same time. The Cerakote has worn in a few spots. Is there any harm in doing this? Media blasting the action to remove Cerakote? Will this in any way affect the tolerance/clearances of the action and bolt? Action is Cerakoted, bolt is parkerized.

 

[kthomas]

I doubt there's any issues removing the current cerakote.

I would avoid cerakote for future finishes. Go with DLC if you can.

 

[FourT6and2]

I doubt there's any issues removing the current cerakote.

I would avoid cerakote for future finishes. Go with DLC if you can.

Why's that? I really like the matte black Cerakote on my rifle.

 

[kthomas]

Why's that? I really like the matte black Cerakote on my rifle.

Cerakote is not a great coating for actions.

It's biggest issue is its thickness. It adds a few though of thickness, and not all actions tolerate that dimensional change well. Also, not all cerakote applicators are equal. Some put it on thicker than others, and some don't have intimate knowledge of how different actions are spec'ed and what their clearances are in different areas, which can lead to more problems.

I've also found that cerakote makes actions feel "gummy". Partially because of the above (decrease in clearances) and partially due to cerakotes lack of any lubricity.

That said, there are some gunsmiths that use cerakote very successfully. I believe both @LongRifles Inc. and @Terry Cross do. They likely both have their own processes through years of trial and error to make it work better than others. I believe Terry also specs his actions from Defiance in a very specific way (different from OEM specs, exactly what idk) to make it work.

There's also a newer cerakote out now, that supposedly goes on thinner and has more lubricity. I think its called "cerakote elite". Personally, I'm a DLC fan. Widely available now on actions, doesn't change any dimensions, great lubricity and durability. Birdsong is great too - though only few are using it (like TacOps). Nitride is another good finish, but be aware of sending of an action for nitride treatment - it's a very high temp process, every place does it differently, and if they aren't aware of the temper of the actions it can and will cause structural damage to your action.

This is my general understanding after owning actions that have cerakote, DLC, Birdsong and Nitride, along with the knowledge I've gathered on here.

 

[pmclaine]

Parkerizing

 

[spife7980]

I’d just leave well enough alone. If you redo it it’s just going to wear again.

 

[FourT6and2]

Cerakote is not a great coating for actions.

It's biggest issue is its thickness. It adds a few though of thickness, and not all actions tolerate that dimensional change well. Also, not all cerakote applicators are equal. Some put it on thicker than others, and some don't have intimate knowledge of how different actions are spec'ed and what their clearances are in different areas, which can lead to more problems.

I've also found that cerakote makes actions feel "gummy". Partially because of the above (decrease in clearances) and partially due to cerakotes lack of any lubricity.

That said, there are some gunsmiths that use cerakote very successfully. I believe both @LongRifles Inc. and @Terry Cross do. They likely both have their own processes through years of trial and error to make it work better than others. I believe Terry also specs his actions from Defiance in a very specific way (different from OEM specs, exactly what idk) to make it work.

There's also a newer cerakote out now, that supposedly goes on thinner and has more lubricity. I think its called "cerakote elite". Personally, I'm a DLC fan. Widely available now on actions, doesn't change any dimensions, great lubricity and durability. Birdsong is great too - though only few are using it (like TacOps). Nitride is another good finish, but be aware of sending of an action for nitride treatment - it's a very high temp process, every place does it differently, and if they aren't aware of the temper of the actions it can and will cause structural damage to your action.

This is my general understanding after owning actions that have cerakote, DLC, Birdsong and Nitride, along with the knowledge I've gathered on here.

My action is already Cerakoted and it's worked out quite well. The same applicator who did it the first time is going to do it again. I've had other actions that were Nitrided and/or had DLC bolts and honestly this Cerakoted action w/parkerized bolt feels much better.

 

[FourT6and2]

I’d just leave well enough alone. If you redo it it’s just going to wear again.

It's lasted about seven years. I just figured since it's going back to the smith for a re-barrel, might as well re-finish at the same time. Just wanted to make sure there wouldn't be any issues in the removal process.

 

[Supersubes]

Id leave it. Cerakote never helps the feel of an action imo, but it can certainly screw it up.

 

[kthomas]

My action is already Cerakoted and it's worked out quite well. The same applicator who did it the first time is going to do it again. I've had other actions that were Nitrided and/or had DLC bolts and honestly this Cerakoted action w/parkerized bolt feels much better.

Hey if it works, it works. Try out the new(ish) Cerakote Elite.

 

[FourT6and2]

Hey if it works, it works. Try out the new(ish) Cerakote Elite.

Isn't that a thinner coating?

 

[Threadcutter308]

I doubt there's any issues removing the current cerakote.

I would avoid cerakote for future finishes. Go with DLC if you can.

This

 

[kthomas]

Isn't that a thinner coating?

I believe it is thinner, and also has more lubricity, than the original formula of cerakote.

 

[FourT6and2]

I believe it is thinner, and also has more lubricity, than the original formula of cerakote.

I'll stick with the original then. I don't want to change the clearances and I don't need more lubrication. Really... I'm perfectly happy with how the action feels as is. I just want to clean up the wear/tear.

 

[kthomas]

I'll stick with the original then. I don't want to change the clearances and I don't need more lubrication. Really... I'm perfectly happy with how the action feels as is. I just want to clean up the wear/tear.

A little extra clearance and lubricity is definitely not a bad thing.

But if you want exactly what you had before, then go for it.

 

[LRI]

Ceracoat and my 2 cents:

First, if you want something other than black, the list of choices becomes pretty small. C/K answers this in spades. Application and how it weathers over time is as application dependent as it is on any other form of coating or paint. If you know how to do a good job, it lasts pretty well.

A lot of places avoid coating interior parts such as receiver raceways. They'll tell you why because C/K makes an action "gummy" or "sticky." I had the same issues early on, and my solution was to fit the action to the application. I bought a Sunnen hone used for resizing things like connecting rods in an engine. Then I spent an absurd amount of money tooling it up so I could hone a receiver bore to clearance for the coating. I soon found out that C/K is not a one size fits all product. The pigment saturation from one color (more like the range of colors) to the next varies, so the film thickness to achieve hiding is also different.

Whites might as well get applied with a Wagner Power Roller. Earth tones are a close second. Greys and blacks are likelier to lay on at the advertised "one mil" film thickness. What I'm getting at is that we had a steep learning curve early on with this stuff. The results, however, pay in spades with actions that run to standard while offering a "complete" appearance. Just as I'd want to strangle a car painter that ignored my door jambs and details, I would expect the same treatment if we ignored a receiver's interior features.

DLC:

Awesome stuff and harder than woodpecker lips. The issue is that it is also a line of sight process. Receiver bores are very, very tough to do well and repeatedly. It's also very prone to flaking. Several action companies have moved away from it because of this fact.

Salt bath nitride:

Not really a coating, as the color change is more of a byproduct of the chemical reaction taking place to alter the surface hardness of a part. Think of SBN as a hard-boiled egg.


Hope this helps.

C.

 

[powdahound76]

This is an odd idea to me.

My rifles are to use.

When I wear them enough it shows, I kinda like it.
Like my old boots and dings on my hunting pack.
Or scars on me.

Just all part of the story.

Im with @pmclaine
Just parkerize it and go shootin

 

[kthomas]

This is an odd idea to me.

My rifles are to use.

When I wear them enough it shows, I kinda like it.
Like my old boots and dings on my hunting pack.
Or scars on me.

Just all part of the story.

Im with @pmclaine
Just parkerize it and go shootin

I agree in that I like my rifles to look used and appreciated.

Some surfaces/treatments break in/wear better than others though.

 

[308pirate]

Media blasting the action to remove Cerakote? Will this in any way affect the tolerance/clearances of the action and bolt? Action is Cerakoted, bolt is parkerized.

The blasting can indeed remove enough base metal to change the fit of mating parts. That depends on which type of media blast is used.

My recommendation is to have a certified Cerakote applicator do the finish removal. They, of all people, should know best how to remove cerakote without removing any of the underlying material.

 

[308pirate]

I've had other actions that were Nitrided and/or had DLC bolts and honestly this Cerakoted action w/parkerized bolt feels much better.

You're attributing too much to the differences in finish as the reason why different rifles feel different from one another.

 

[FourT6and2]

You're attributing too much to the differences in finish as the reason why different rifles feel different from one another.

There were all the same actions. Defiance Deviant Tactical.

 

[FourT6and2]

The blasting can indeed remove enough base metal to change the fit of mating parts. That depends on which type of media blast is used.

My recommendation is to have a certified Cerakote applicator do the finish removal. They, of all people, should know best how to remove cerakote without removing any of the underlying material.

Ok, thank you for not going into a diatribe about what coatings are better lol. Is media blasting the only way to remove Cerakote? I'll ask my smith if he's done it before. Not sure if he's "certified" but as a machinist, he knows what he's doing and he's the only smith I trust.

 

[Taylorbok]

I'd have thought that during cerakote they would keep it out of anywhere that tolerances matter, basically just do the outside of the action body.
(I've never had cerakote)

 

[pmclaine]

I'd have thought that during cerakote they would keep it out of anywhere that tolerances matter, basically just do the outside of the action body.
(I've never had cerakote)

Ask the USMC MARSOC how they like cerakote.

For the few rounds I’ve run, new in the box, mine runs fine but if “any” we’re having problems I favor the move to the new finish.

 

[FourT6and2]

I'd have thought that during cerakote they would keep it out of anywhere that tolerances matter, basically just do the outside of the action body.
(I've never had cerakote)

Barrel threads aren't coated. But everything else is. The pic. rail, bolt shroud, handle, bolt knob, raceways, ramp, etc.

I just want to make sure that by media blasting away the Cerakote, it doesn't affect any of the actual metal. I had some wheels media blasted for new finish and it wound up rounding off all the sharp edges on the spokes slightly. If you just look at an individual wheel you wouldn't really notice. But if you put the wheel next to a new one, you could tell all the edges looked a be chamfered or rounded off because of the blasting.

Granted, that's an aluminum wheel versus a stainless steel action.

Only photos I got, sorry.

 

[308pirate]

There were all the same actions. Defiance Deviant Tactical.

Doesn't matter. They are not dimensionally identical.

 

[308pirate]

Ok, thank you for not going into a diatribe about what coatings are better lol. Is media blasting the only way to remove Cerakote? I'll ask my smith if he's done it before. Not sure if he's "certified" but as a machinist, he knows what he's doing and he's the only smith I trust.

I don't work with cerakote so I don't know every way to remove it. It's a ceramic paint so media blasting is the obvious answer.

Your gunsmit being a machinist has nothing to do with his knowledge about cerakote and how it can be removed. I would not ask him.

I gave you the advice that I would give someone paying me for it: ask a certified Cerakote applicator or better yet call Cerakote and ask.

PS cerakote is my last choice in firearm finishes. It's paint for fucks sake.......

 

[kthomas]

I'd have thought that during cerakote they would keep it out of anywhere that tolerances matter, basically just do the outside of the action body.
(I've never had cerakote)

You'd be surprised.

 

[FourT6and2]

I don't work with cerakote so I don't know every way to remove it. It's a ceramic paint so media blasting is the obvious answer.

Your gunsmit being a machinist has nothing to do with his knowledge about cerakote and how it can be removed. I would not ask him.

I gave you the advice that I would give someone paying me for it: ask a certified Cerakote applicator or better yet call Cerakote and ask.

PS cerakote is my last choice in firearm finishes. It's paint for fucks sake.......

Yeah it's paint. But hey... it's what I like.