AR10 realistic accuracy expectations

[45-90]

Brand new build... AR 10 338 RCM...no load development.
First round moderate load to see if my chambering job was where the gauges said it was..

Then on to loading book maximum loads for the 338 RCM, right out of the gate, 65,000 psi ...Including sight in.
See how the AR 10 hands the pressures of the full magnum loads, with a variety of hunting bullets.
Function test, adjust gas block, then on to targets with various bullets.
No match bullets all hunting bullets.
The average of 5, 3 shot groups was .506"
With bullet weights from Barns 160 copper to 250 gr Speer GS. 5 shot groups averaged right at 1" only two powders, all maximum loads.
4, varieties 6.5 PRC reworked brass were used...the chronograph says it makes quite a difference. I did notice the weight variation between brands.
Lapua cases gave the most velocity by 50 fps! There were a few Barns cases, with already loose primer pockets, but the Lapua, Norma, and Nosler were nice.
Also the Nosler brass was more brittle and required extra annealing step, when formed to 338 RCM.

 

[Ex E6]

So, what is acceptable accuracy out of sub 2k$ ar10's?
Especially interested in the ruger SFAR experiences. Have seen some reviews that 4 moa is being acceptable, maybe I expect too much and comparing to bolt gun experience am I being unfair to think 2 moa is decent and 1moa is standard(AR10s)?

90% is Barrel IMO . One of the most accurate AR-15's I own is a bone stock BushMaster XM-15 E2S 20" W/CR bore no less .

Everybody told Me I was nuts as it wouldn't shoot ,well I took a pretty good kitty off many of them .

I know You asked about AR-10's and Ditto it's Barrel accuracy combined with Bullet and powder selection . Many of the commercial ammo manufactures have " Stepped Up " their match ammo standards in recent years . Targets DON'T lie .

" IF " one selects proper components and uses Quality Lower & Upper platforms ,0.5 MOA is pretty normal now days .
Fine tuning can run them under that with fair regularity . IMO


1 St. target was done with a M1 Garand 1942 Vintage Iron Sights W/stripped pinion . Hence Why at the time I was unable to elevate group ,however all #8 are there .

#2 MY Aero Precision AR .308 as I was dialing in a newly mounted scope . Last #3 shots were nearly single hole . It Will do Sub 0.5 MOA with specific handloads . These were std. 150 gr. Hornady bullets .
#3 & 4 Another AeroPrecision in 6.5CM 1 St. rounds down range . Used factory Norma Golden Target loads at 165 Yd. as I had NO cases and needed to dial the scope in . MY New bore sight math measured scale worked near perfectly .
#5 Powder evaluation on 6.5CM using 120 gr. so as to determine function . IMR powders failed to fully function .
#6 Aero Precision Accuracy test with 123 gr. . All #5 shots per group shot under 1 minute ,with 5 minute between groups .
Purpose POA as to POI change with barrel warming .
Happy to report DIDN'T affect accuracy as all were under 0.5" at 165 Yd. with best powder being VV N540 .

#7 MY 129 gr. Hunting load at 278 Yd. all #21 shots including sighter . So YES they will due 0.5 MOA .

 

[bfoosh006]

90% is Barrel IMO . One of the most accurate AR-15's I own is a bone stock BushMaster XM-15 E2S 20" W/CR bore no less .

Everybody told Me I was nuts as it wouldn't shoot ,well I took a pretty good kitty off many of them .

I know You asked about AR-10's and Ditto it's Barrel accuracy combined with Bullet and powder selection . Many of the commercial ammo manufactures have " Stepped Up " their match ammo standards in recent years . Targets DON'T lie .

" IF " one selects proper components and uses Quality Lower & Upper platforms ,0.5 MOA is pretty normal now days .
Fine tuning can run them under that with fair regularity . IMO


1 St. target was done with a M1 Garand 1942 Vintage Iron Sights W/stripped pinion . Hence Why at the time I was unable to elevate group ,however all #8 are there .

#2 MY Aero Precision AR .308 as I was dialing in a newly mounted scope . Last #3 shots were nearly single hole . It Will do Sub 0.5 MOA with specific handloads . These were std. 150 gr. Hornady bullets .
#3 & 4 Another AeroPrecision in 6.5CM 1 St. rounds down range . Used factory Norma Golden Target loads at 165 Yd. as I had NO cases and needed to dial the scope in . MY New bore sight math measured scale worked near perfectly .
#5 Powder evaluation on 6.5CM using 120 gr. so as to determine function . IMR powders failed to fully function .
#6 Aero Precision Accuracy test with 123 gr. . All #5 shots per group shot under 1 minute ,with 5 minute between groups .
Purpose POA as to POI change with barrel warming .
Happy to report DIDN'T affect accuracy as all were under 0.5" at 165 Yd. with best powder being VV N540 .

#7 MY 129 gr. Hunting load at 278 Yd. all #21 shots including sighter . So YES they will due 0.5 MOA .

Good shooting !

 

[Ex E6]

Good shooting !

Thank You I try . #40 years ago I followed the advise of a Swedish Army instructor and attempt to use a 3 point fix . Using some point off one's rifle ,lining up left and right visuals ,then adjusting down range elevation too your target . He insisted in real world situations one couldn't always rely on the weapons sighting system ,so approximate first then fine tune if you can . In Sweden severe Winter's can ice peeps ,so they became useless but Biathlon training soldiers were forced to use em .
A major game change where we reside now is WIND . You realize something is amiss when weather people say it's gonna be breezy and wind is 18-32 mph . They don't even consider it windy here until winds reach 50+ mph ,which they do far too often .
Folks up here in somewhat PNW area UT., ID. , MT. , WY. and Dakotas had better have wind dope figured ,otherwise you aren't hitting the broadside of a barn at 300 yd.

Where we moved from Breezy was considered 5-10 mph . Windy was 15-20 + mph. .

 

[RUTGERS95]

90% is Barrel IMO . One of the most accurate AR-15's I own is a bone stock BushMaster XM-15 E2S 20" W/CR bore no less .

Everybody told Me I was nuts as it wouldn't shoot ,well I took a pretty good kitty off many of them .

I know You asked about AR-10's and Ditto it's Barrel accuracy combined with Bullet and powder selection . Many of the commercial ammo manufactures have " Stepped Up " their match ammo standards in recent years . Targets DON'T lie .

" IF " one selects proper components and uses Quality Lower & Upper platforms ,0.5 MOA is pretty normal now days .
Fine tuning can run them under that with fair regularity . IMO


1 St. target was done with a M1 Garand 1942 Vintage Iron Sights W/stripped pinion . Hence Why at the time I was unable to elevate group ,however all #8 are there .

#2 MY Aero Precision AR .308 as I was dialing in a newly mounted scope . Last #3 shots were nearly single hole . It Will do Sub 0.5 MOA with specific handloads . These were std. 150 gr. Hornady bullets .
#3 & 4 Another AeroPrecision in 6.5CM 1 St. rounds down range . Used factory Norma Golden Target loads at 165 Yd. as I had NO cases and needed to dial the scope in . MY New bore sight math measured scale worked near perfectly .
#5 Powder evaluation on 6.5CM using 120 gr. so as to determine function . IMR powders failed to fully function .
#6 Aero Precision Accuracy test with 123 gr. . All #5 shots per group shot under 1 minute ,with 5 minute between groups .
Purpose POA as to POI change with barrel warming .
Happy to report DIDN'T affect accuracy as all were under 0.5" at 165 Yd. with best powder being VV N540 .

#7 MY 129 gr. Hunting load at 278 Yd. all #21 shots including sighter . So YES they will due 0.5 MOA .

I had one that was a laser, one of my most accurate ones as well. mine was the ban mode with no threading. regret selling it

 

[Ex E6]

I had one that was a laser, one of my most accurate ones as well. mine was the ban mode with no threading. regret selling it

I have Both smooth and threaded . I purchased a few of them . Actually tried getting a pair with consecutive serial #'s , Close but NO cigar #5 off ..

Funny part is one will shoot BL C2 exquisitely , the other NO way as it prefers 4064 N540 and N140 .

I did this Years ago off the dirt ,didn't even have a stinking mat or bipod . #6 Range witnesses ,as I was asked to duplicate it with backer change outs . I missed #1 round which I believe was a faulty load but all agreed it had been done . Circa 1998-99 Scope Nikon Monarch 3 series I believe as I've still got that rig as well as it's near twin . Come June I'm gonna repeat that feat ( hopefully ? ) . My loads were Bulk 55 gr. with cannelure no less .

Note the Winchester white box left vertical string ,Junk ammo IMO . NO POA change ,so just saying pretty sad factory ammo .

 

[sheepdog697]

I want my LFAR's to do at least 1.5 MOA.

However , it really depends on what you want... Minute of Man ? or more precision.
And finding an ammo / load your LFAR likes is critical.

I have a PSA PA 65, with a Criterion Barrel ( with other accurizing tricks done by me ) that can truly shoot better then me.
I guess I am saying... if I can do it, so can most anyone else.
Provided you have the mindset and tools.
View attachment 8135313

Which criterion barrel did you use? Outstanding group

 

[sheepdog697]

Here’s my JP 6.5 CM at 1000View attachment 8135903

Pics of your build? Lrp-07 or LRI20

 

[bfoosh006]

Which criterion barrel did you use? Outstanding group

Lol, and FWIW... I don't always shoot that "perfectly"... but there are times the conditions allow it.

And I did most of the tuning tricks. Trued the receiver face , Loctited in the barrels extension, mad sure the upper to lower fit was tightened up.
SLR Adj. GB and a Lancer carbon fiber handguard... wide enough to make sure no chance of barrel parts bonking the inside.

22" Criterion 6.5CM Hybrid ... RLGS...
https://criterionbarrels.com/produc...creedmoor-ar-barrel-stainless/?v=7516fd43adaa

 

[LuckyLuke80]

As a previous comment said-barrel is probably 90% of the equation.
Have a diamondback ar10 that was about 8 moa on a good day with certain ammo. It liked the hornady black pretty well, but ball ammo was trash through it. Some groups as much as 10 moa. Did some inspecting on the barrel and discovered that the lands ended inconsistently at the muzzle. One was noticeably shorter. Turned it over to my brother who’s a machinist and he did more inspecting. Trash barrel it seems. Switched to a Faxon (yes I know it’s also a low grade barrel) and saw marked improvement. Still a 4 moa gun, but it shoots a bigger variety of ammo at an almost acceptable grouping. Next step is a criterion core or something similar.

 

[sheepdog697]

As a previous comment said-barrel is probably 90% of the equation.
Have a diamondback ar10 that was about 8 moa on a good day with certain ammo. It liked the hornady black pretty well, but ball ammo was trash through it. Some groups as much as 10 moa. Did some inspecting on the barrel and discovered that the lands ended inconsistently at the muzzle. One was noticeably shorter. Turned it over to my brother who’s a machinist and he did more inspecting. Trash barrel it seems. Switched to a Faxon (yes I know it’s also a low grade barrel) and saw marked improvement. Still a 4 moa gun, but it shoots a bigger variety of ammo at an almost acceptable grouping. Next step is a criterion core or something similar.

You're getting 4moa out of a faxon barrel? Is this with match ammo? I'd try 168 or 175 fgmm and see how it shoots with those id you're just using ball ammo.

 

[LuckyLuke80]

You're getting 4moa out of a faxon barrel? Is this with match ammo? I'd try 168 or 175 fgmm and see how it shoots with those id you're just using ball ammo.

It’s pretty much my average. Still likes some ammo better than others. Still a larger than desired group, but much more realistic than the original barrel

 

[hlee]

Damn, I’m comfortably getting 2 moa from a 16” ballistic advantage barrel in what I can only describe as a poverty build- relatively speaking.

 

[sheepdog697]

It’s pretty much my average. Still likes some ammo better than others. Still a larger than desired group, but much more realistic than the original barrel

Im still trying to figure out if that is with match ammo.

 

[LuckyLuke80]

Im still trying to figure out if that is with match ammo.

Match ammo I was under 4 moa. Ball ammo and misc factory ammo was 4-5 moa.

 

[TheOE800]

I’m a sub-moa bolt gun shooter. I am not a sub-moa big block semi shooter. Not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings, but there’s a marked difference in technique between the two. Between barrels, ammo, and shooter there’s plenty of ways to stack up accuracy and precision issues.

 

[LuckyLuke80]

I’m a sub-moa bolt gun shooter. I am not a sub-moa big block semi shooter. Not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings, but there’s a marked difference in technique between the two. Between barrels, ammo, and shooter there’s plenty of ways to stack up accuracy and precision issues.

Definitely not hurting my feelings. I can shoot my bolt gun right at 1 moa occasionally. I’m not a sub moa shooter. I can shoot it under 2 moa every time from prone, but not so much with positional shooting. If I switch to the gas gun, it’s far different. A lot that goes into gas guns as I’ve learned is the fundamentals and follow through especially due to the timing of the firing sequence of a gas gun. My point being-I’m a long was from expert with either action type. Feedback is great and I’m not thin skinned about what I don’t know

 

[Ex E6]

Older 5.56x45 out of an Aero precision AR 15 ,Powder evaluation . Some of you are scaring ME with 4-5 MOA talk .

Look at those paper plate at 165 yd. with an M1 Garand w/ Stock sights Granted Handloads . I don't own a rifle rest just old sandbags .

As I had acquired that particular Garand from a friend ,I wasn't aware the pinion was stripped ,so unable to elevate sight is why their so low .

I do use a decent spotting scope because as all I can see at 165 yd. is White . AR 15 is scoped .

I'm NO Mathew Quigley or Carlos Hathcock I assure you ,just and old steady hand .

 

[BCP]

As a previous comment said-barrel is probably 90% of the equation.
Have a diamondback ar10 that was about 8 moa on a good day with certain ammo. It liked the hornady black pretty well, but ball ammo was trash through it. Some groups as much as 10 moa. Did some inspecting on the barrel and discovered that the lands ended inconsistently at the muzzle. One was noticeably shorter. Turned it over to my brother who’s a machinist and he did more inspecting. Trash barrel it seems. Switched to a Faxon (yes I know it’s also a low grade barrel) and saw marked improvement. Still a 4 moa gun, but it shoots a bigger variety of ammo at an almost acceptable grouping. Next step is a criterion core or something similar.

That's pretty bad I would try something like a lead sled and a different scope to help eleminate your techniqe as the issue. A good rough standard for a cheap AR10 barrel is 2" for five rounds at 100 yards using decent ammunition.

If you could post a pic of your rifle maybe people on here could give you a few tips.

 

[LuckyLuke80]

That's pretty bad I would try something like a lead sled and a different scope to help eleminate your techniqe as the issue. A good rough standard for a cheap AR10 barrel is 2" for five rounds at 100 yards using decent ammunition.

If you could post a pic of your rifle maybe people on here could give you a few tips.

Yeah I could do that at some point in the near future for sure. At the time of the barrel swap it had a NF ATACR 5-25 and was 4 moa. Way more scope than was needed and then I got a bolt gun and the NF went on that. That one’s a tack driver. When the funds are available the ar10 is going to get an lpvo of some flavor-probably a vortex. Until then it just sits in the safe

 

[sheepdog697]

Yeah I could do that at some point in the near future for sure. At the time of the barrel swap it had a NF ATACR 5-25 and was 4 moa. Way more scope than was needed and then I got a bolt gun and the NF went on that. That one’s a tack driver. When the funds are available the ar10 is going to get an lpvo of some flavor-probably a vortex. Until then it just sits in the safe

Id definitely say the atacr is enough scope lol

 

[STI_1911_Guy]

I expect a good quality AR10 to hold 5 , 5round groups under 1.5 MOA with good loads.

 

[LuckyLuke80]

Id definitely say the atacr is enough scope lol