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Rifle Scopes "Best" LPVO

R

rowjimmy

Private
Minuteman
Feb 1, 2022
11
4
PA
#1
Hi Everyone, still a relative newbie here. I read over this thread which had a lot of good info but things sometimes change and its a little old (2018).

I'm looking for the "best" LPVO to put on an all Aero carbine I built for general use/carbine classes/Run n Gun's, etc... I state Aero just so we know it's not a match rifle or LMT/DD rifle, etc...

I know "best" is subjective and I'm unlikely to find one with all of these features, but if you know an optic which meet most of them, (but might be weak in one or more areas), please share.

Desired Features:
Lightweight yet Rugged/Durable for field use.
True 1x
Clear Glass
Super Bright illuminated reticle for red dot-like performance
At least 1-6x, preferably 1-8x or 1-10x
SFP or FFP, I like the idea of being able to range with the reticle, but most longer shots would be at full magnification so a SFP w/BDC would work OK
Robust throw lever for quick magnification changes (Preferably using gross motor skills. I've had the throw levers on two strikes eagles break, loosen etc...)
Good eye box at higher magnification
Preferably mil rad over over moa adjustments, especially if FFP

I will offer this, assume cost is not an issue. I am willing to buy once/cry once. The best optic I own is a Nightforce Nx8 on my Tikka and while it may not be as good as their ATACR line or other higher end optics you all might use, it works for me. My second best optic is a VCog 1x8 on my AR10 and I like it, but it's heavy AF. While I'm willing to pay for quality, I don't need to buy a Mercedes if a Lexus or Toyota have the features I need.



Thanks in advance for any insights and opinions
 
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#4
www.primaryarms.com

Home

DetailsThis rifle scope is part of the top tier optics line called PLx. PLx optics meet the exacting demands of professional use, offering impeccable glass clarity and advanced features from state-of-the-art production facilities.Improving on its predecessor, the fully redesigned PLx 1-8x24mm...
www.primaryarms.com
 
#6
S&B dual CC, but it’s in the same weight class as the Vortex and ATACR. On the lightweight side I’m a huge fan of the PA PLXc and even have a turn-key package for sale in the PX.
 
#8
You will hear a lot of hate, but I vote for the NX8 1-8 if weight is important. I had the C599 and wasn't a fan of the FC-MIL reticle, but I just got a C663 with the FC-DMX and it's a winner. Super-bright illum. Guys will bitch about the eyebox but if you set the rifle up right it's not an issue, at least for me. The ATACR is nice but heavier. I had a Razor Gen III and sent it down the road. Eyebox just wasn't what I expected, illum not as bright as expected, and didn't like the mil reticle it had. I did, however, just pick up another Gen II 1-6 Razor; hadn't had one for awhile. I forgot how sweet they are albeit sorta heavy but only 4.5 oz. heavier than the NX8.
 
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#9
I have the k16 and the vortex 1-10, had a vortex 1-10

i would get the mil reticles with either, don't go bds or 3gun

for more run and gun and 500 and in i would take the kahles all day over the 1-10, its lighter, great fov and eyebox. glass is just amazing. i definitely notice the weight difference, its not major but its there, just need to decide if its worth it.

the 1-10 to me at least shines in more precision work and shooting further out there. reticle is better labeled and has more holds.

the advent of the new turret for the kahles has been a game changer for me. its basically a zero stop simple turret with i think 4.7 or 5 mils up travel in elevation. i know i can get 4.7 on one of mine. and with my 12.5 i can get to 500 on it with cheap federal 75g ammo, i find the turret to be better for more precise shots out further. it solved my biggest gripe with the k16 which is the reticle isn't labeled so you can get lost in it trying to hold out further, its super simple and great for 300 and in, but my hit ratio is way up at 400-500 when i dial vs. hold.

both are great optics and defiantly have their pro's and con's really just comes down to the intended use and purpose, either one can do the job.

but for me at least 300 and in give me the kahles, 300 and out give me the vortex.

and for me even though both are great at 1x, i still run an offset acro via the badger mount on both my k16's and i am going to put a rmr at 12oclock on the 1-10 just to try.

the offset RDS shines to me in transitions especially wider ones inside of 100 yards, did some drills and i was much faster, you dont get lost or stuck in the tube, also i am touch faster on ready ups with the offset rds in that 25-75 yard range, shots inside of 15 yards i am about the same speed wise with ready ups or transitions, multiple targets.
 
#10
Another vote for PLXc if weight is a top consideration for you. My personal opinion is if 6-8oz is making or breaking a rifle that’s already 8+ lbs, maybe hit the gym more often. I’d rather have the best glass and a bit more weight.

March 1-10 is another consideration I didn’t see mentioned.

www.snipershide.com

Optics - S&B PMII 4-16x50; March Shorty 1-10x24; Ultra Dot sights

Have a few extra optics in the safe. Offered for sale in the US. Not looking for any trades right now. First is a S&B PMII 4-16x50. Has CW single turn turrets, in Mils, illuminated P4F reticle. Was on a .308 GAP for about 600 rounds. Like new, no issues. Have box and flip up lens covers...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com
 
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#11
I have the S&B Dual CC for it’s two separate modes.
At 1X it’s true Red dot and at 1.1 and above a reticle is visible.
-Richard
But Euro Optic now controls the S&B line and my scope with Pantone CCW took about 9months to order.
S&B had a Pantone with CW but that is different than any other scope I have.
I prefer turrets that work like a screw.
 
#12
rowjimmy said:
Hi Everyone, still a relative newbie here. I read over this thread which had a lot of good info but things sometimes change and its a little old (2018).

I'm looking for the "best" LPVO to put on an all Aero carbine I built for general use/carbine classes/Run n Gun's, etc... I state Aero just so we know it's not a match rifle or LMT/DD rifle, etc...

I know "best" is subjective and I'm unlikely to find one with all of these features, but if you know an optic which meet most of them, (but might be weak in one or more areas), please share.

Desired Features:
Lightweight yet Rugged/Durable for field use.
True 1x
Clear Glass
Super Bright illuminated reticle for red dot-like performance
At least 1-6x, preferably 1-8x or 1-10x
SFP or FFP, I like the idea of being able to range with the reticle, but most longer shots would be at full magnification so a SFP w/BDC would work OK
Robust throw lever for quick magnification changes (Preferably using gross motor skills. I've had the throw levers on two strikes eagles break, loosen etc...)
Good eye box at higher magnification
Preferably mil rad over over moa adjustments, especially if FFP

I will offer this, assume cost is not an issue. I am willing to buy once/cry once. The best optic I own is a Nightforce Nx8 on my Tikka and while it may not be as good as their ATACR line or other higher end optics you all might use, it works for me. My second best optic is a VCog 1x8 on my AR10 and I like it, but it's heavy AF. While I'm willing to pay for quality, I don't need to buy a Mercedes if a Lexus or Toyota have the features I need.



Thanks in advance for any insights and opinions
Click to expand...
I’ll let you know this evening when my new Primary Arms SLX 1-10x28 34mm LPVO arrives.

Pretty excited, as they supposedly updated the glass and lots of other features. It’s only SFP, but for most LPVO uses, FFP isn’t necessary. And for my intended use, SFP will be just fine, since the rifle is for subsonic .300 BLK only, and will probably never be shot more than 300-400 yards just plinking around. And it’s a MIL reticle. 👍🏼

www.primaryarms.com

Home

DetailsThis Primary Arms rifle scope is part of the SLx optics line. SLx optics have built a reputation for innovation, reliability, and value. All SLx optics undergo rigorous field-testing during development to best serve you in any environment.The Primary Arms SLx 1-10x28 Rifle Scope takes...
www.primaryarms.com

A95FBE8E-0BD4-479A-8C76-FE28797B6859.jpeg
 
#13
1911hombre said:
You will hear a lot of hate, but I vote for the NX8 1-8 if weight is important. I had the C599 and wasn't a fan of the FC-MIL reticle, but I just got a C663 with the FC-DMX and it's a winner. Super-bright illum. Guys will bitch about the eyebox but if you set the rifle up right it's not an issue, at least for me. The ATACR is nice but heavier. I had a Razor Gen III and sent it down the road. Eyebox just wasn't what I expected, illum not as bright as expected, and didn't like the mil reticle it had. I did, however, just pick up another Gen II 1-6 Razor; hadn't had one for awhile. I forgot how sweet they are albeit sorta heavy but only 4.5 oz. heavier than the NX8.
Click to expand...
I agree with this - I just picked up the new model NX8 1-8 with the FC-DMX reticle (same reticle as the ATACR) and it is a terrific little scope. I really like the light weight and trim/short form factor. Illumination is crazy bright too.
 
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#14
There is no "Best LPVO". This is the wrong question to ask.

They all have fleas or weaknesses in some areas. Their intended use (and not the tired "from CQB to 1000y" thing) dictates which optic and features are better suited for the assigned task.

Anybody who tells you "(blank) is the best" with no context is just trying to justify their personal (spending?) decisions.
 
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#20
Agree with comment about “best”. It’s different for each person.
For me:
1. Schmidt & Bender Dual CC
2. Khales 1-6 (SFP)
3. Minox 1-8
4. March 1-10 dual
5. EoTech 1-10 SR5
6. NX8 1-8 DMX

I own or have shot and played with all of these.
If money is no object just do the S&B and be done. Otherwise get behind these, your mileage may vary.
IMO the hands down winner for the money is the EoTech. IMO it’s just about even with the Vortex Gen3 for a lot less money.
 
Last edited:
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#22
dms416 said:
There is no "Best LPVO". This is the wrong question to ask.

They all have fleas or weaknesses in some areas. Their intended use (and not the tired "from CQB to 1000y" thing) dictates which optic and features are better suited for the assigned task.

Anybody who tells you "(blank) is the best" with no context is just trying to justify their personal (spending?) decisions.
Click to expand...
Did you read my entire post or just the title and decided to reply?
 
#24
In my quest for the "best LPVO" ;), I've owned about every high-end LPVO except NF. Here are my observations. YMMV.

SB Dual CC: Best glass and turrets hands down. Two things I didn't like are (1) the diffractive red dot loses a lot of brightness unless you're directly behind it and (2) if your battery dies, there is only a small black dot at 1x that is hard to see.

Kahles 1-6 and 1-8: Great glass, reticles, and forgiving eye box. Only real downside is SFP. Not as good for longer distances. Almost kept the 1-8, as I liked the 3GR reticle at 1x, but wanted to be able to shoot past 300 as well as at 1x. If it was a FFP and had a reticle more useable for longer distances, I would have kept it.

Minox 1-10: Glass almost as good as SB. Very nice crosshair reticle that can be used without illumination and as good for distances as the SB. Downsides are that it's heavier and the illumination is not red dot bright and hard to see on bright days.

March 1-10: Like the compact size and weight and adjustable parallax. DOF very shallow, however, requiring precise parallax adjustments for clearest view. Illumination not red dot bright.

Steiner P4xi 1-4: Brightest red dot of all and simple, uncluttered reticle. Most forgiving eye box. Nice glass and price. Fastest for short distance run-and-gun (1x), but lacks the magnification and reticle for any distance shooting. Kept this one as a backup.

Vortex 1-10: The one I eventually settled on for my primary LPVO as having the best combination of glass, red dot bright illumination, reticle, weight, and price for me. Many think the eye box is not as forgiving. I've noticed some of that, but it hasn't bothered me once I got used to it. Diffractive red dot like SB, but brightness does not fall off near as much when not directly behind it. Good at both 1x and 8-10x.
 
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#25
rowjimmy said:
Thanks for all of the ideas guys, I'll need to think on this some more.

It's always interesting to read quite disparate opinions abut the same make/model of optic.
Click to expand...
Just got my new PA SLX 1-10x28 34mm LPVO mounted up and boresighted... Damn. It's not alpha-tier, but it's damn nice for $450. It's got a true 1x for sure, and that's pretty handy for close up & nearly point-blank shots (like shooting a snake or something). The reticle is really nice! I really dig it. Lots of holdover and marks for windage. The glass (only checked inside, as it was dark outside) with an LED shining into it to illuminate the full clarity from about 8 feet away, was REALLY clear when I was boresighting with my old school Bushnell boresighter that uses the bore arbors. It was very crisp and clear. I will be buying a couple more for sure, one for another one of my .300 BLK AR's, and might put one on my old Marlin 336 .30-30 Win for deer hunting. The true 1x magnification will make it great for a brush-gun. And the beefy 34mm tube is also really nice for strength and rigidity.

These are just initial thoughts, but I will update once I get to the range this weekend and get to look through it in real-world environs. I'll try to get some pics through it as well.

Honestly, based simply on first impressions, I also have a Strike Eagle Gen2 1-8x24 SFP, and most of the time they sell for $399... For $50 more, I'd buy this new SLX 1-10x any day of the week. And the retile is WAY better, has 2x more magnification, and a 34mm tube with 40 MOA of elevation and windage adjustment. The turrets click really nicely, too. They're 0.5 MOA clicks.

6096436E-AB78-49A3-90B1-2A3C0CBE9452.jpeg
2DAADA49-7E84-4490-B1EE-7E0C4A60219F.jpeg
EB5ABABB-46D5-4A6F-984E-9AC8A997A909.jpeg
 
#26
rowjimmy said:
Did you read my entire post or just the title and decided to reply?
Click to expand...

Yep and buzz phrases like "general purpose" and "Run & gun" "classes and matches" tell me nothing pertinent about how you intend to use the optic or enough to give an actual direction.

And with that, I'll leave the blind to be left by the blind. Good luck with your search and time here.
 
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#27
Based on OP, I would say the Vortex 1-10.

If it were me, I would go with the PA PLxC 1-8.

From what I have read the Vortex image starts to fall away past 8x and so I think the PA will be just as good for long range shooting, if not better, while being 4oz lighter. I personally strongly value a reticle that is fast to pick up with illumination off, given that the poor battery life of an LPVO at its highest brightness means you are not going to be turning the illumination on until you know you need it. However, you specified red-dot like illumination and I think the Vortex has that over the PA.

Agree with other posters who say you need to give more specific information. If anyone is asking me for optics recommendation, I ask these questions
-what is the farthest distance you will ever be shooting?
-what is the farthest distance you will be shooting somewhat regularly?
-what distance will you be doing most of your shooting? i.e., what distance do you want to optimize for?
 
#28
bjO735g.jpg


I've used quite a few and currently own the Vortex 1-10 and atacr 1-8 fc-dmx. I prefer the atarc. Might actually try to trade the 1-10 for an atacr or something else at some point. Both are very bright. Prefer the NF glass and reticle. I need to spend more time with the Vortex though.


The Kahles 1-6 is fantastic as well. Vortex 1-6 is pretty damn good and for much less. Sfp is fine for 1-6 but beyond that I prefer ffp. I didn't get to shoot with it but the new 1-8 VCOG looked great. Reticle isn't quite "precision" oriented but just in my few minutes messing with it it seems it would be faster and more forgiving eyebox for low/1x use.

I would suggest trying to find some in person before dropping 2-3k.
 
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#29
Identify intended uses. Find a reticle that fills that role and purchase. Everybody wants to shoot 0-1000y but what is the realistic intended ranges this will be used?

For someone as inexperienced as you a razor gen 2e would be a good starting place.

If this is going to double as a hog/coyote gun PA has several optics that have reticles that can do that as well as traditional tactical roles.

If you are willing to just go balls deep an atacr (or similar class) is really what you are asking for.
 
#30
For what you said you wanted I would probably suggest the ATACR. I looked through one Terry has and it was nice, the illuminated reticle was bright and easily seen.

I have a Steiner M8xi and the "daylight bright" reticle is not daylight bright! The glass is phenomenal, quick and easy to adjust the magnification with a little throw arm and a nice, forgiving eye box imo. I also have a Leupold 1.5-5 that I used in Iraq and the reticle is also not "daylight bright".

Good luck on your hunt, there are a LOT of threads about this topic.
 
#32
Here is what I currently have:

1. Two Vortex Gen III Razor 1-10 MIL FFP
2. Steiner T6Xi 1-6 MIL FFP
3. Vortex Razor Gen 2 1-6 MIL SFP
4. Leupold MK6 1-6 CMR-W (MIL) FFP
5. Steiner P4Xi 1-4 MOA SFP

Just got rid of these:
1. NightForce NX8 1-8 MIL FFP
2. Khales K16i SM1 1-6 SFP

Of all of those above listed I that I kept I ranked them in the order that I like them the best. Those that I got rid of I did not like at all.
 
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#33
One thing I’ve noticed on LPVOs is that the user’s experience seems more subjective than with other scopes. By this I mean I had an S&B and found the glass didn’t jive with my eyes. Others love it and praise its flat image. Who’s right? Both.

All of this is to say try to get behind as many candidates as possible to see how your eyes like the glass before you buy.
 
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#37
Really like the new PLxC 1-8 but it's not daylight or nuclear bright(daylight red). The Razor 1-10 gen 3 is probably what you want but not ultra lightweight.

For the sake of throwing out a new name I'm gonna throw in the Meopta meostar R2(their highest end lpvo/glass) as it's 17.4 ounce, has a bright dot, has several reticle choices and seems to be very well received.

Meopta Sports Optics - European premium optics

www.meoptasportsoptics.com www.meoptasportsoptics.com

Also this for something a bit cheaper but under 19 ounces with a bright dot

www.eurooptic.com

Trijicon Credo HX 1-6x24 SFP w/ Red LED Dot, BDC Hunter Holds .223, 30mm, Satin Black Riflescope 2900020

FREE SHIPPING on Trijicon Credo HX 1-6x24 SFP w/ Red LED Dot, BDC Hunter Holds .223, 30mm, Satin Black Riflescope 2900020
www.eurooptic.com www.eurooptic.com
 
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#38
Question, I purchased the S&B Dual CC because it has two reticles in effect, a true Red dot at 1X and an illuminated Reticle at 1.1X and above.
Does any other scope maker offer this type system or are the rest, one reticle that zooms from 1X to the max?
-Richard
 
#41
I have a gen 3 razor 1-10 and trijicon vcog SCO. The SCO is better at 1X IMO and has a slightly better eyebox. The razor is a little brighter glass and brighter reticle.

Personally, I'm gonna keep the SCO and sell the razor. The 1x performance is what makes the decision for me but they're pretty close.
 
#43
No, I believe he is talking about this March, which has been out for about a year or so.

D10SV24FDIML (Dual)​

It's a 1-10X24 with dual reticles.

The one you mentioned, the D15V42FDIMLX is a 1.5-15X42. The SFP version has been out for about a year or more; the FFP and the Dual Reticle version is coming early next year.
 
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#45
Docsherm said:
Here is what I currently have:

1. Two Vortex Gen III Razor 1-10 MIL FFP
2. Steiner T6Xi 1-6 MIL FFP
3. Vortex Razor Gen 2 1-6 MIL SFP
4. Leupold MK6 1-6 CMR-W (MIL) FFP
5. Steiner P4Xi 1-4 MOA SFP

Just got rid of these:
1. NightForce NX8 1-8 MIL FFP
2. Khales K16i SM1 1-6 SFP

Of all of those above listed I that I kept I ranked them in the order that I like them the best. Those that I got rid of I did not like at all.
Click to expand...
How in the world do you like Razor Gen II but not the K16?
 
#46
Burdy said:
How in the world do you like Razor Gen II but not the K16?
Click to expand...

I’m not him, but having owned a couple of each…

The illuminated reticle on the K16i doesn’t compare to the Razor Gen 2. Not even the same world of 1x performance if the lighting is too bright.

Now I personally liked both scopes a lot, but they are different enough I can totally understand not liking one but liking the other.
 
#47
Evolution 9 said:
I’m not him, but having owned a couple of each…

The illuminated reticle on the K16i doesn’t compare to the Razor Gen 2. Not even the same world of 1x performance if the lighting is too bright.

Now I personally liked both scopes a lot, but they are different enough I can totally understand not liking one but liking the other.
Click to expand...
Yup, that's what I figured. Guess it depends on preference. With SFP and reticle that's not dependent on illumination for visibility, I'll take the scope with the better eyebox and glass, especially since I piggyback a red dot. I guess if I ONLY ran the LPVO, it might be a closer call.
 
#49
Not an alpha-tier optic, but I took my new PA SLx 1-10x28 34mm SFP to the range today to zero it on my new Ruger American Ranch .300 BLK. The glass is very clear edge-to-edge. Its also very bright glass (good light transmission). The reticle is very clean, crisp, and precise. The illuminated reticle only illuminates the horseshoe and the center chevron. There is no light bleed beyond the illuminated parts, and even with my astigmatism, the IR is very clear.

The 34mm tube is nice. It’s beefy, strong, and has 40 MOA of adjustment for both elevation & windage.

Overall I’m pretty impressed for a $450 optic. It beats my Strike Eagle 1-8x24 in pretty much every category, other than weight.

EA51B322-6CFC-4E0C-B2C8-506D7FC0E645.jpeg
 
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#50
After looking at the specs, the March 1-10 looks pretty amazing if price is no object.

Adjustable parallax, dual focal plane reticle, fiber illumination, and under 18oz. Other than reticle preferences and price, not sure what else you could ask for, assuming its durability is equal to other top tier LPVOs.
 
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