Im sure with all the people here there are some really beautiful shotguns that dont get seen often.... so... can i check em out?
this is my browning leige 12 guage, not super fancy but its nice. I want a fancy one bad.
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Can i see your fancy scattergun?
- Thread starter Texasflyer
- Start date
471 Silver Hawk 20 gauge. Not super fancy but a joy to carry in the field.
Not fancy either, but I'm very proud to own these two old Browning's:
1936 Superposed & 1904 A5
1936 Superposed & 1904 A5
I grew up shooting a sweet 16, my grandfather had an a5 just like that one also. Brings back memories.
Well, you asked for the fancy ones so......
Kolar used as a competition skeet gun
This was a Win Super X-1 project that got completely and utterly out of hand. Engraving done by Ken Hurst of Roberson, NC, but now sadly deceased. Ken's company, which he owned in the 70's/80's did much/all of the factory engraving for Pigeon and Super Pigeon (gold inlay animals) SX-1's. Now, these are highly prized by collectors for provenance, but Win factory engraving has never really been high grade. Its production line engraving for the most part.
I wanted to make a Win SX-1 Super Pigeon as the going rate for them at the time was ridiculous but at the same time not be an exact duplicate of factory engraving. I did want to stick to the Win 12-5 engraving pattern general layout of upland on the left side and waterfowl on the right.
As it ended up, I would have saved significant money by buying a factory engraves gun! haha Once Ken got started, the quality of the work just demanded that I fund it to completion. I just couldn't find it in myself to try to pull him back on the level of detail and fine work that he started doing. I will never get my money out of this gun, will pass it on to my son, but it is a work of art attributable to a great engraver and friend, Ken Hurst.
Extraordinary high qual gunsmithing/polishing/bluing was done by Ernest Marlette of Winston-Salem, NC. Ernest is a winner and in particular is one hell of a K-80 gunsmith.
I'm not going to mention the stock maker nor the issues that came up...its ancient history.
But I did buy the blank from Cecil Fredi in Las Vegas and I always recommend him for anybody looking for high end blanks for custom stocks.
The checkering was done by John Reese (https://checkeringgunstocks.com) He does OUTSTANDING work. Highly recommend him.
And without further ado, I present the world's most expensive SX-1 haha Couple pics in the white to show the engraving off then some of the finished gun
Kolar used as a competition skeet gun
This was a Win Super X-1 project that got completely and utterly out of hand. Engraving done by Ken Hurst of Roberson, NC, but now sadly deceased. Ken's company, which he owned in the 70's/80's did much/all of the factory engraving for Pigeon and Super Pigeon (gold inlay animals) SX-1's. Now, these are highly prized by collectors for provenance, but Win factory engraving has never really been high grade. Its production line engraving for the most part.
I wanted to make a Win SX-1 Super Pigeon as the going rate for them at the time was ridiculous but at the same time not be an exact duplicate of factory engraving. I did want to stick to the Win 12-5 engraving pattern general layout of upland on the left side and waterfowl on the right.
As it ended up, I would have saved significant money by buying a factory engraves gun! haha Once Ken got started, the quality of the work just demanded that I fund it to completion. I just couldn't find it in myself to try to pull him back on the level of detail and fine work that he started doing. I will never get my money out of this gun, will pass it on to my son, but it is a work of art attributable to a great engraver and friend, Ken Hurst.
Extraordinary high qual gunsmithing/polishing/bluing was done by Ernest Marlette of Winston-Salem, NC. Ernest is a winner and in particular is one hell of a K-80 gunsmith.
I'm not going to mention the stock maker nor the issues that came up...its ancient history.
But I did buy the blank from Cecil Fredi in Las Vegas and I always recommend him for anybody looking for high end blanks for custom stocks.
The checkering was done by John Reese (https://checkeringgunstocks.com) He does OUTSTANDING work. Highly recommend him.
And without further ado, I present the world's most expensive SX-1 haha Couple pics in the white to show the engraving off then some of the finished gun
hahaha....wow, yeah...I bought these guns during the very short time in my life that I was "in the money" LOL
So, Citori or SBE3....two very different guns for pretty much different purposes. One, a fairly decent OU for clays and upland birds and the other primarily a waterfowl gun but useful for turkey and similar hunting also.
Citori's are good guns....but you need to find the shotgun that suits you. While many love Brownings and shoot them superbly, for me they just feel too high in the hand and I tend to prefer Beretta style OUs. Just a matter of personal preference.
Now, new Beretta OU have become VERY expensive, but unless you wrap one around a tree, they are immensely hard to brake. A nice used 686/7 or even better a 682 are wonderful guns for both clays an upland.
But, my son (26 and graduating with a Phd in Phys Therapy next month) has been out shooting clays with me but really, really loves shooting my couple of rifles and in particular LOVES my 6.5 CM in a JAE chassis....so, maybe make a trade with him for one of these shotguns! haha
Take care, my friend.
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Ohio National Guard 870....
I'll post a pic of my 1927 vintage Browning A5 later.
I'll post a pic of my 1927 vintage Browning A5 later.
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- Nov 3, 2010
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win1897 that’s been cloned in a trench gun
Beretta 686 20 ga Sporting with 30" barrels
On behalf of the sadly passed Ken Hurst, thank you. Since you do a bit of engraving, you might find this interesting. When Ken got out of the Navy (ages ago) and wanted to get started in engraving, nobody would really help/mentor him nor were there the plethora of engraving tools and such we have today.
He told me that when he started, he made his cutting tools out of ice picks and case harden nails!!! And to the day he passed, he never used an auto-graver. Just him at a small bench (really just a shelf) by a window with a ball vise, chisel, and hammer....tap, tap, tap, tap...all day long.
Ken also told me that this was the finest piece he ever engraved and indeed its in a coffee table book called Master American Engravers of the 20th Century.
As for shooting them, the Kolar OU was campaigned in tournament skeet for a very long time. 13-15 tournaments per season and a LOT of practice the rest of the time. The gun is still solid as a rock and locks up like a bank safe.
The SX-1 has been shot, but no...I don't shoot it routinely. I have another SX-1 with 28" barrel with Briley thin wall chokes that I like to use for 5 stand and sporting clays. But, I do take it to the skeet field once in a while. Just not shot hard.
Thanks again....on behalf of the truly great craftsmen who did the work on this gun.
While not in the same league as some of the works of art displayed here. I like to find what I refer to as "Orphans" and bring them back to a shootable condition. One of those things that keep me busy. This is a pre WWII Marlin Model 90 12 Ga with double triggers and the joined barrels.
while not rare they are not plentiful.
while not rare they are not plentiful.
Some of my favorite upland guns.
Browning Model 12 20 ga. 24" pump.
Citori Grade IV O/U 3" 12 /20 ga. 24" with sequential serial no.'s
Winchester Model 12.
Remington Wingmaster 870 20 ga.
Browning Belgium Sweet 16's, blonde wood from 1959
Browning Model 12 20 ga. 24" pump.
Citori Grade IV O/U 3" 12 /20 ga. 24" with sequential serial no.'s
Winchester Model 12.
Remington Wingmaster 870 20 ga.
Browning Belgium Sweet 16's, blonde wood from 1959
I have owned about 5 wingmasters, i buy them in pawn shops for about 100 bucks and clean them up. Every time i sold one i would miss it, this is the last one i got, still for 100 bucks. Im keeping this one though.
Took the plunge a couple of years ago at the nationals. Krieghoff Parcours.
i do the same but where in the world are you finding wingmasters for 100 bucks??! i havent seen one that low in forever.
The master is in the house
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They are usually squirreled away in the shotgun section of small town pawn shops. The one pictured was two tone from sitting in a truck back window for years and was full of cat hair and gunk from like 20 years, barley cycled empty when i picked it up. They are never pretty when i find them. Some people dont know what they have lol.
You want to see fancy shotguns, take a look at Paxton Arms' used list here - how about that K-80 Parcours at $49,500? Robert has sold high-end shotguns since (I think) the '70s. I got my Kolar skeet gun from him in 1997... it was one of the first ones out "in the wild." Early days Kolar people (you listening, @Baron23 ?) are always comparing serials to see whose is older.. mine is #0020x, and Robert told me it was one of the first he got in stock. My understanding is the first production run started at 00200 or -01.
Here are a couple of snaps of my wife's now-departed Krieghoff K-20 Gold Super Scroll 3-barrel skeet set (she shot with me a couple of years and burned out). She never followed me into this rifle madness). The top latch had enough gold in that trademark broken target to command a 4-figure price to buy one outright. You can spend some serious coin on skeet guns... but unlike rifles, they run hundreds of thousands of rounds with very little maintenance (springs, maybe firing pins if they get pitted).
Here are a couple of snaps of my wife's now-departed Krieghoff K-20 Gold Super Scroll 3-barrel skeet set (she shot with me a couple of years and burned out). She never followed me into this rifle madness). The top latch had enough gold in that trademark broken target to command a 4-figure price to buy one outright. You can spend some serious coin on skeet guns... but unlike rifles, they run hundreds of thousands of rounds with very little maintenance (springs, maybe firing pins if they get pitted).
Very nice lumber on that K80
32” is just too dang long for me but many others love them.
Robert is one of the finest gentlemen you will ever meet as a gun dealer and is open and honest as the day is long. Cannot go wrong trusting Robert on a gun purchase.
You wife’s ex-gun is wonderful. There may be a K-20 in my future w 30” Parcours light barrels and I’ll quail hunt w it.
haha...you have me beat. Mine serial is 01234.
a friend, Nunzio, got a VERY early gun from Rags and his trigger kept doubling. They got him fixed up but before that We were at National Capital shooting practice and it was very humorous watching his eyes roll like wheels in a slot machine when both barrels of 12 ga lit off at once. Well, Nunzio didn’t think it was too funny at the time! LOL.
I did send my triggers to them for an upgrade and they are much improved from OG but I still think Krieghoff has the best triggers in the biz.
Hope you enjoy your Kolar for many more decades. Just can’t break those guns.
A few years ago I was browsing the high end gun racks at Pat Lieske's Bald Mountain facility and noticed a Kolar Max Lite Sporting with beautiful wood and engraving. I picked it up to look at it then noticed the $34,995 price tag on it when I turned it over.
I put it back immediately.
People joke about "go be poor somewhere else" here when discussing their Barrett MRADs, AIs, and Sako TRGs...........well, they haven't seen Go Be Poor Somewhere Else unless they've walked into a high end sporting shotgun dealer like Michigan Shooting Centers, Pacific Sporting Arms, or Paxton Arms to name but a few.
And we haven't even approached true eye popping prices like Holland & Holland, Purdy, Boss & Co., Longthorne, or Fabbri..................
I put it back immediately.
People joke about "go be poor somewhere else" here when discussing their Barrett MRADs, AIs, and Sako TRGs...........well, they haven't seen Go Be Poor Somewhere Else unless they've walked into a high end sporting shotgun dealer like Michigan Shooting Centers, Pacific Sporting Arms, or Paxton Arms to name but a few.
And we haven't even approached true eye popping prices like Holland & Holland, Purdy, Boss & Co., Longthorne, or Fabbri..................
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Amen wrt dealing with Robert. I had a business trip scheduled to Dallas, so I called him and asked if I could meet with him and fondle whatever Krieghoffs, Kolars, and others he had in stock. He explained to me that he didn't have a storefront per se (again, this was 1997 and I have no idea what's changed since) but I could stop by and see his stock. After handling a bunch of different ones, I kept coming back to the Kolar. It just felt right, very natural in my hands. I also really liked that I could remove the trigger group via loosening a single screw. Krieghoffs are awesome shotguns, but like so many German firearms, they are intricate and complex.Robert is one of the finest gentlemen you will ever meet as a gun dealer and is open and honest as the day is long. Cannot go wrong trusting Robert on a gun purchase.
You wife’s ex-gun is wonderful. There may be a K-20 in my future w 30” Parcours light barrels and I’ll quail hunt w it.
haha...you have me beat. Mine serial is 01234.
a friend, Nunzio, got a VERY early gun from Rags and his trigger kept doubling. They got him fixed up but before that We were at National Capital shooting practice and it was very humorous watching his eyes roll like wheels in a slot machine when both barrels of 12 ga lit off at once. Well, Nunzio didn’t think it was too funny at the time! LOL.
I did send my triggers to them for an upgrade and they are much improved from OG but I still think Krieghoff has the best triggers in the biz.
Hope you enjoy your Kolar for many more decades. Just can’t break those guns.
He had a "demo" Kolar; he sent it with me to Dallas Gun Club where I met his wife Mary and another gentleman and shot a few rounds. Sold! And that club... right out of the "Dallas" TV show of yore. Fancy. The skeet fields could have doubled as putting greens. I was hungry. so Mary put me in the dining room where a gentleman in a white-jacketed uniform took my order... and yes, there was a Cadillac in the parking lot with longhorns on it...
Interesting thought about the Kolar vs. Krieghoff triggers. The guns feel very different overall, and that definitely extends to the triggers. I prefer the Kolar... massive, huge trigger compared to the dainty, curvaceous little K-gun's... ;-) While the K-20's trigger was superbly crisp, it just never felt right to me as compared to the Kolar.
At many of the shoots I attended, it wasn't unusual to see 8-10-12 shotguns worth well over $100k unattended on a rack. Theft was virtually unheard of. I met a guy who had bought a well-used Krieghoff K-32 and had it brought up to current K-80 spec insomuch as possible. He called Krieghoff's North American headquarters in Ottsville, PA and asked about upgrading his stock. Sure, he was told, provide the configuration you like and we'll send you three samples. Choose the one you like, and send back the others along with your old one. He was surprised... asked, "Don't you have a lot of stock go missing, doing that?" No, he was told... the representative on the phone could only recall one instance of trouble.
I haven't shot any skeet at all in a couple years now, and it's probably been 4-5 years since I competed. I still get called every year to referee the big North Carolina shoots at Ft Bragg... the Paratrooper, state closed, and I think the US Open and Masters have also been held there as well... but I don't trust myself to be as good on the buttons as I used to be and I don't like standing several hours in the mid-summer sun anymore, so I politely bowed out.
Lots of stories about skeet. As much as I enjoy rifle, I miss the environment, and the people.
Man! All these beautiful pics bring back memories! Not because I have ever had a shotgun as beautiful as any of these but because of the people it helps me remember. Back when I was a young punk I was living in Ozona, FL and taking care of my Dad while he battled cancer. My sorry ass needed a job and somehow I ended up pulling trap at Silver Dollar Shooters Club in Odessa (They were the hosts of the Sothern Grand at the time and I have never loaded that many clays in a day in my life!). Had a blast, was making $9.50/hour (1998) , got an employee discount on shot, powder, and primers so life was good, and met some great folks! I remember one round I was pulling for a group and there a cardiologist in the bunch shooting a stunning Kolar. They were all standing around with their guns hanging on their shoulders like the cools do when the Kolar slipped and landed hard on the concrete. I knew a tantrum was about to ensure but he just looked at the gun, said "Well, fuck!", and got back to shooting. Always was impressed that someone could shake something like that off so easily. The other cat I remember vividly was an old Italian that went by Skippy. Shot a Beretta 390 with a release trigger. I don't know what became of old skip but he loaded me a Posness-Warren so I could reload and afford to shoot. Went over to his place one day and he and his wife invited me for lunch. We kind of chitchatted and talked shooting and he dug out an old photo album and started showing me pictures of him and Rudy Etchens shooting together. He told me story after story and it was one of the best and most memorable times I have ever spent with another human being. God, I miss those cats!
, got an employee discount on shot, powder, and primers so life was good, and met some great folks! I remember one round I was pulling for a group and there a cardiologist in the bunch shooting a stunning Kolar. They were all standing around with their guns hanging on their shoulders like the cools do when the Kolar slipped and landed hard on the concrete. I knew a tantrum was about to ensure but he just looked at the gun, said "Well, fuck!", and got back to shooting. Always was impressed that someone could shake something like that off so easily. The other cat I remember vividly was an old Italian that went by Skippy. Shot a Beretta 390 with a release trigger. I don't know what became of old skip but he loaded me a Posness-Warren so I could reload and afford to shoot. Went over to his place one day and he and his wife invited me for lunch. We kind of chitchatted and talked shooting and he dug out an old photo album and started showing me pictures of him and Rudy Etchens shooting together. He told me story after story and it was one of the best and most memorable times I have ever spent with another human being. God, I miss those cats!I actually prefer the way Brownings fit me, but I got a smoking deal on a 686 Sporting such that I was still ahead even after adding an adjustable comb to it.
For many decades, the godfather of skeet here in NC has been Mr. Tildon Downing. When I started in 1968, he was a top-rung competitor, and as of two years ago he was still shooting. I've seen him, practicing before a big shoot, leave his squad to go help an obviously new shooter and his son... anyway... he demonstrated the epitome of cool not once but twice while I was reffing for his squad. As competitors know, running the 100 is not noteworthy... it just gets you to the tiebreaker shootoffs. Running a 4x4 (100s in 12,20,28 and .410) or a 5x5 (4x4 plus the doubles event) is more noteworthy. So it's Sunday afternoon and we're coming up on station 5 in the last box of .410, and Til is straight for the weekend. He calls and breaks his high bird. Twelve targets to go for a 4-by. Calls low target... and misses. We're all stunned. As the referee pushing the buttons, I'm thinking "Did I slow- or fast-pull him? If so, I'll give him another target..." But no. He simply missed. And it was as if he was in the first box of a practice round with his friends. Ejects the empties, loads one shell, calls his option, and inkballs it. Still wins HOA for the weekend with a 399... but to get that far and miss one, and show no reaction... Impressive. And it happened again a year or two later. Same thing.
On the other hand... we had a guy who was always complaining about this or that when he missed. We were on a field where the low-house trap had some kind of issue where it broke quite a few targets. I don't remember why we didn't stop so Wally could fix it, but the squad decided to finish the hundred. The complainer dude had a bad round and made it known how he blamed the ailing trap. I ran the hundred, so I was happy. Well, a few days later, I get a call from someone at NSSA. Turns out complainer-dude had protested the entire round! Kinda like playing a ball game and, after it's over, protesting that the whole game should be thrown out! Not one target - the whole round. The NSSA guy asked if the situation was as bad as complainer-dude described. I said, "I ran the hundred. It was aggravating, yes, but not a one of us, including him, deemed it bad enough to stop." Boom. Protest died right there, and that idiotic attempt was welded to complainer-dude forever.
Lots of stories....
Wonderful....was just talking about Dupont with some friends at Loch Raven skeet club in Baltimore county.
Sad, Hal Dupont passed what...about 2 weeks ago?
I never met Hal, but I do know some NSSA history and there wouldn't be an association without his intervention many years ago when NSSA was basically broke.
Cheers
great stories. Very first day I had my brand new Kolar at the National Capital range....the Kolar shown above.....we are shooting H8 and the shooter in front of me....an older guy but one who had been shooting and refereeing the sport for decades....comes off of H8 turning to his right with his barrels swinging out in front of him right into my brand new, exhibition grade, stock.Man! All these beautiful pics bring back memories! Not because I have ever had a shotgun as beautiful as any of these but because of the people it helps me remember. Back when I was a young punk I was living in Ozona, FL and taking care of my Dad while he battled cancer. My sorry ass needed a job and somehow I ended up pulling trap at Silver Dollar Shooters Club in Odessa (They were the hosts of the Sothern Grand at the time and I have never loaded that many clays in a day in my life!). Had a blast, was making $9.50/hour (1998)
He looked at me and said "well, it had to happen some time" hahaha
True words....skeet guns were born to get dings. That's why god made stock smiths! LOL
As we discussed before, I never met Mr Downing but of course had heard of him and NC sure has some great skeet shooters. No doubt about that.
I was told early on that I should react and walk off the station the same way; whether it was a hit or miss. Something that doesn't come naturally to my whining butt but guidance that I constantly strived for.
And yes, whenever any body complained about wind, targets, background....whatever. All we had to do was point to the score board at some one's 100 and say, "well, couldn't have been too bad, XXX ran 'em". haha
Pfft. I never saw him do it, but I heard enough times that Craig could break both targets of station 4 doubles before either crossed the center stake. Wind? Hahaha. But I was pulling (reffing) for him more than once when he squirted a low 7 single for a 99... and once for a 499.
When somebody tells me that "brain farts" can be trained away... pardon me while I politely move away to laugh at such naïveté.
Ah, one year Craig came to the North South when I was running that shoot and I'm pretty sure he took EVERYTHING. Serious, I think he won every event.
Next year, it was Uke who never missed a target in the five events or shoot offs. Not one.
I have seen Bobby break the 2nd target before crossing the first ink ball....but I don't think he hit it before it crossed the center stake!!!
I have NEVER in this life or another had the type of athletic skill (of course coupled with discipline and commitment) that these two guys and other like them have demonstrated.
I have scored a 99 by missing a low 7 single in the fourth box....but not for a 499!! I might have been tempted to blow my brains out.
Is Craig still shooting much. I know after he married and had kids it seemed like he slowed down a bit but that was a while ago. Is he competing much these days?
Oh, and Craig and his family were ALWAYS polite and were also people who never complained....they just went out and broke targets.
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Pfft again. At least once a season, I would miss the last one out for a 99. Also at least once a season, I would shoot the high bird of station 2 doubles, admire the inkball, and turn to leave the station... and see the second target pass the center stake. I usually recovered enough to hit it before it went out of bounds.
Skeet. The ultimate all-mental discipline.
I don't know how many of the Liberty (town in NC) Mafia are still shooting. I've been gone too long to know.
Sorry to highjack the thread with stories... but hey, guys, grab a shotgun and go try it.
I have one like that with 27" barrels, blonde wood, imp cyl/imp mod, and the original box. Picked it up 28 years ago at a pawn shop for $225. It carries great and I have taken countless dove, pheasant, quail, and a few prairie chickens with it. One of my 21 year old triplet boys shot a limit of doves with it when he was 11, so I don't get to shoot it much anymore.
Gentelmen, hijack away, i have enjoyed reading all the responses. Thank you for sharing your stories, they are as valuable as the pictures of these masterpieces. I just hope one day i can be on the level to own something as nice and cared for as some of these.
Check with Paxton. You might find that a lightly-used K-80, Kolar, or similar is more in your price range than you think. Unless his policy has changed, he will ship you a used gun to try out. Don't like it, send it back (on your dime).
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One more story; this one involves a brassiere.
So it's a tradition among skeet shooters that, the first time you run the hundred, your squad shoots your hat. Put some targets in it for weight, fling it up there, and interested parties blast away.
So at a beloved little club down east in 1980-something, the crown molding in the clubhouse had dozens of shot-up hats tacked to it. This was back in the days when you could hardly see them across the room for the cigarette smoke. Anyway, up there with all the hats was a lacy purple bra of significant capacity. The story was - confirmed with the bra's former owner - that when she first started shooting, she was sure she would never come close to running 100, and she wouldn't wear a hat anyway because it would deface her poofy '80s hairdo. So she stayed with it, and got better. The guys told her she had to get a hat for when she ran 'em. Nope, said she, it'll never happen, and if it does you can shoot my bra.
Well, it happened and they did and up on the wall it went.
Well, mostly. This was Down East NC in the Bible belt, and some of the guys were most bothered to have a ladies' undergarment prominently displayed in the smoky clubhouse. So it would disappear for awhile, and then reappear.
Some years later, the clubhouse was renovated and expanded and all the hats went away, along with the lovely Ms. M's pretty purple perforated bra. The legend lives on among us old-timers.
Some really fine shotguns here. Im just shooting a 1964 Winchester 101 12 gauge, but I love it. Looked for a while before I finally found one locally.
Paying for an argentine mauser yesterday i saw this brand new savage 20 guage and decided to bring it home with me. Not expensive but i liked the forend wood.
That is an awesome explination of the different types, i have never shot trap, or sporting clays either, just skeet. Now i wanna give the others a go as well
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