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Its past time this kind of shit ends!

Gunfighter14e2

Gunfighter14e2

Hunter/trapper of Remora's
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 9, 2002
9,951
15,136
Lick skillet Alabama
eham.net
#1
Even if dispatch fucked up, or you're at the wrong address, its still on you to verify any/all issues, before using deadly force. There needs to be murder charges brought on this one. Filling the ranks with just warm body's w/o brains, only makes the problems worst.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Decorated airman, 23, is killed in his Florida apartment

An airman was killed in his Florida apartment after police forced their way into the wrong apartment and shot him as his horrified friend watched on FaceTime.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
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#4
From the article:

”A similar incident happened involving the same sheriff's office back in November - in which the officer shot an unarmed and handcuffed man after he mistook the sound of a falling acorn for a gunshot, according to The Washington Post.“

This was the acorn incident police department. Sounds like they have some major issues.
 
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#10
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#11
wvfarrier said:
Nothing will come of it unfortunately. Qualified immunity will apply since they were "theoretically" answering a legitimate 9-11 call and the victim answered the door with a gun in his hand
Click to expand...
I haven't seen anything that says he opened the door? I've seen they "pushed through" and "broke through". But even if he did, if Fife didn't announce, and hid from the peephole (as has been reported several places as witness testimony), why wouldn't he have a gun in his hand?

Wonder if his aircrew supports QI?
 
#12
No charges no disciplinary actions for the Acorn assassins ; because they violated no department policy.. wonder if this is within policy
 
#20
We don’t know what the actual call was. It could have been a “My neighbor is beating the shit out of his wife again” call. So they knock on the door and dude answers with gun in hand and won’t drop it. So now you have an exigency, mistaken tho it is.
 
#27
Unfortunately you have to chose to live or die when anyone bust through your door regardless who it is. The departed have to live with their mistakes as I see it....
 
#33
This shit will not stop until Qualified Immunity goes away and lawsuits make fuckups like this so expensive that the police actually decide to give a shit about not shooting folks at the drop of a hat. Mind you that criminally prosecuting these incidents won't help because DA's and the cops are so far up each other's asses that behavior like this gets a free pass.

Until then (which is probably longer than anyone reading this will live) get a doorbell camera and use it because it will save your life in a situation like this.
 
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#34
I won't take a pro or anti law enforcement position but these stories are so frequent anymore that I can't discern whether it's the MSM focusing on it, whether it's a reflection of our current LEO's, or if this has been going on for decades and we're just now getting visibility of such. I'll start with my first thought- this is unacceptable and is just one example of such occurring which is shameful.

I'm trying to stay neutral but reckon it's worth repeating what we know to be as facts. In my world- I have a half dozen friends or so and they are nothing short of amazing personalities, temperament, and judgement. Most of which ended up at least at the state level police category last I spoke to them.

It's been interesting hearing their stories and what situations they've had to diffuse but none of which were telling me stories of how they 'got' somebody doing something trivial like a questionable stop in the dead of night without any traffic. Of course there's also the flip side of the equation, and I know I'm generalizing but last story I caught was something like 70% of DUI stops never go to trial because the DA refuses to prosecute them should the defendant challenge the stop (notice I didn't say arrest, I'd guess it's different in every state but in my opinion the DUI effort had the best intentions and has turned into an entire cottage industry/profit source, of course not stating that as doctrine just as an opinion).

So all that said- while the officers that I personally associate with are amazing people and some of which are very close friends, there's some real turds that they work with and interact with the public and unfortunately hold the same 'authority' as the good officers that I know and have the ability to absolutely wreck somebody's life for no reason than because they're bored. And that's egregious to me because the whole 'innocent until proven guilty mantra' doesn't seem to be all that accurate these days as a blue falcon cop to his entire precinct can ruin somebody's life, cost them 10's of thousands of dollars to prove their innocence and then 'Officer Renigade' who holds no honor amongst his coworkers is shielded for falsifying police reports. Just another day as they're concerned but the public trust is further eroded.

To double down, we've now gone years of criminalizing the police, we haven't seen any meaningful reforms, but have scared off otherwise quality candidates from applying because they don't want to pursue a career in law enforcement when their district won't support them (which is bizarre in itself considering the actions that are being shielded from on higher). So these otherwise quality candidates pursue a different career field because they're smart enough to recognize they'd be setting themselves up for failure from their leadership in a field that typically already underpays other career options and that causes a recruitment crisis.

Now we're at the point where these police agencies aren't getting the quality of recruits they're looking for so to counter that- they don't raise the salary but rather they lower the standards. Now we're at the point where illegal immigrants are being sought to fill those ranks and for the US citizens attempting to join the police, we're likely getting the bottom of the barrel applying now because that's the environment these agencies created.

I recognize that I'm ranting at this point so I'll just get to the TL/DR portion- in my experience all of the folks I personally know that are police officers are among the most honest and honorable people that I know, but even they complain about the other folks they work with and they have a heightened occurrence of stopping people and causing them to ruin their lives/finances to prove their innocence (when the system was designed to the inverse) and as such as much as I respect the profession, should I be stopped I can't know which one I'd be interacting with but it's in my best interest to treat all police officers the same way as wanting nothing to do with them or cooperate with what they're trying to solve for the community by any means. And frankly that's a shame and not how I'm wired but I've got to protect myself and my family so yes, I'm going to likely come across as a dick.

Other candidates are picking up on this lack of support, in many ways there are parallels to how public school teachers fight against their administration (I have some personal experience there too), but the problems still exist and our community's response is to lower the standard rather than raise the salary. Difference of opinion I suppose, and I'm not an expert, but dang if I wouldn't feel better knowing the police force was comprised of the same personality types that my friends encompass.

-LD
 
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#36
Not picking a side...

Another tenant meet the deputy and said she had heard fighting from the apartment before. Supposedly, he was face timing his girlfriend and the "thinking"is they were arguing and that is what the lady heard. She directed him to 1401 (as I recall) and the correct number can be seen in the body cam footage. Deputy knocked and waited. Knocked louder and announced as LE. Kid opened the door with the gun pointed at the floor. Cop says drop it and fired. Cop did not foce his way in. Word in the unit is the kid was being medically seperated.

Should he have waited longer? Don't know, wasn't there? I do know action will beat reaction just about everytime.
 
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#37
As usual, you guys just cite a single one sided article. They didn't bust the door down. The cop knocked several times and announced himself as LE. The subject opened the door with a gun in his hand.

The body cam footage has been released.


Now, is there a conversation of whether or not he should have taken more time since it looked like the subject was holding the gun at his side? Yes.

But as usual, it's not just a cut and dry case.
 
#38
EddieNFL said:
Not picking a side...

Another tenant meet the deputy and said she had heard fighting from the apartment before. Supposedly, he was face timing his girlfriend and the "thinking"is they were arguing and that is what the lady heard. She directed him to 1401 (as I recall) and the correct number can be seen in the body cam footage. Deputy knocked and waited. Knocked louder and announced as LE. Kid opened the door with the gun pointed at the floor. Cop says drop it and fired. Cop did not foce his way in. Word in the unit is the kid was being medically seperated.

Should he have waited longer? Don't know, wasn't there? I do know action will beat reaction just about everytime.
Click to expand...
After rewatching the video; deputy states step back, then shoots multiple times, then says drop it.
30 seconds from the deputy’s first knocking on the door and not announcing or saying anything but hiding from the door peephole. Then knocks again announcing sheriff’s dept.
 
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#40
IronSkillet said:
...but hiding from the door peephole.
Click to expand...
^ Hide from the peephole. (I get it, you don't stand in front of the door so you can get shot through it) Or cover the peep hole, or disable the ring cam or security cams, then shoot you because you don't peacefully surrender. Things that make sense to some people, but only when viewed from the their narrow one sided perspective.

Because it's the cops who say they're cops, you have to somehow know it's true that they're cops, even though you can't double check.
Blocking your view so you can't check to see that they're NOT cops, REALLY REALLY seems like something that someone who WASN'T the cops would do. Ya know?


(As a side note, when I was young and we worked in the dormitories, that was always fun. Knock on a door, the kid would say"Yeah?" and you'd reply with "Search warrant!" The response was always a VERY excited "WHAT!?") :D
 
#41
cas6969 said:
^ Hide from the peephole. (I get it, you don't stand in front of the door so you can get shot through it) Or cover the peep hole, or disable the ring cam or security cams, then shoot you because you don't peacefully surrender. Things that make sense to some people, but only when viewed from the their narrow one sided perspective.

Because it's the cops who say they're cops, you have to somehow know it's true that they're cops, even though you can't double check.
Blocking your view so you can't check to see that they're NOT cops, REALLY REALLY seems like something that someone who WASN'T the cops would do. Ya know?


(As a side note, when I was young and we worked in the dormitories, that was always fun. Knock on a door, the kid would say"Yeah?" and you'd reply with "Search warrant!" The response was always a VERY excited "WHAT!?") :D
Click to expand...
Perspective is important and at times tunnel vision may become a factor, nothing I stated is conjecture or embellished.
Why not announce sheriffs department when first knocking on the door, what tactical advantage is the deputy gaining by his actions? Yes, Officer safety is paramount but at what point during the interaction is the deputy threatened by the homeowner, the presence of a handgun pointed at the floor while opening the door. Some narrow one sided thinking people making sense to some and not others may in fact feel the deputy overreacted to the situation.
We will never know had the deputy knocked and announced himself the first time, staying at the door if things would have ended differently.
 
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#42
IronSkillet said:
Perspective is important and at times tunnel vision may become a factor, nothing I stated is conjecture or embellished.
Why not announce sheriffs department when first knocking on the door, what tactical advantage is the deputy gaining by his actions? Yes, Officer safety is paramount but at what point during the interaction is the deputy threatened by the homeowner, the presence of a handgun pointed at the floor while opening the door. Some narrow one sided thinking people making sense to some and not others may in fact feel the deputy overreacted to the situation.
We will never know had the deputy knocked and announced himself the first time, staying at the door if things would have ended differently.
Click to expand...
The health and well being of innocents trumps officer safety. Police officers are provided arms the public can't have, trained, given special powers, and paid handsomely because they are expected to risk their lives to protect the public.

If those officers aren't willing to risk their safety for the rest of us they need to be removed from their jobs and men and women with the proper amount of steel in their spines need to be hired.
 
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#43
IronSkillet said:
Perspective is important and at times tunnel vision may become a factor, nothing I stated is conjecture or embellished.
Why not announce sheriffs department when first knocking on the door, what tactical advantage is the deputy gaining by his actions? Yes, Officer safety is paramount but at what point during the interaction is the deputy threatened by the homeowner, the presence of a handgun pointed at the floor while opening the door. Some narrow one sided thinking people making sense to some and not others may in fact feel the deputy overreacted to the situation.
We will never know had the deputy knocked and announced himself the first time, staying at the door if things would have ended differently.
Click to expand...

If the uniform hangers feel they are justified in murdering someone because they are in a non threatening manner holding a gun which is the citizen's constitutional right, using excuse "we were scared" or "we have a right to go home safely"

Wouldn't the citizens have the the same right to "we were scared" and "we have a right to be home safely" if they see a uniform hanger with their hand anywhere near a gun?

Again this stupid gestapo tactics of beating in the doors and kicking things in first shoot first then announce they are the police later on need to be harshly punished and none of this other B.S.

This all stems from the stupid idiotic "war on drugs" that let police turn into jack boots and destroyed so much of civil liberties.

The uniform hangers should be mandated that they MUST clearly announce they are LE, must clearly state their reason for coming and what department they are with and make all reasonable attempts to wait and have a peaceful interaction.
While those uniform hangers deserve to be in prison for a good long time and never be allowed to be in any position of authority again, chances are they will skate by as the rest of their buddies and the corrupt courts give them a pass on it.

Also if Karma has any justice the stupid idiot that called them because of a phone call they overheard will one day get the same uniform hangers treatment.
 
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#44
Maybe they did what Amazon does to me. Even though my house numbers are huge written on front of my house and so is my neighbors, the GPS shows my house where his is.. so my packages get dropped off over there all the damn time, and they sometimes keep it even though I have a picture of it on their porch from shipping confirmation.. Even with special shipping instructions that say "Verify number on house matches number on package".. They stil cant get it right..
Its this age of DEI hires and brain dead zombies.
They specifically hire the less intelligent police on purpose... so no real shocker. Sucks for us we have to worry about them and how dumb they are though.
 
#46
These are questions without great answers. Sort of like the dude the ATF shot in AR. They knock and announce, but you're upstairs asleep. What wakes you up is the door being kicked in. Now you're awake and terrified, adrenaline overload, heart going a thousand miles and hour, not thinking right, not perceiving things right, you come down and get shot.

Someone's banging on your door, you "answer it" with gun in hand. It's the cop. Even if you don't open the door, what do you do? Say "Hold on" (to go put the gun away) They won't be happy with "hold on", they're more likely to think you're going to GET a gun. (or destroy evidence). Telling them "Hold on, I'm going to go put my gun away" probably isn't going to work too great either. Both are going to cause bad outcomes. So what do you do? There's no good answer for that situation.

(yes, plenty will say "don't answer the door with a gun", we know that's what the cops would say too)
 
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#49
cas6969 said:
^ Hide from the peephole. (I get it, you don't stand in front of the door so you can get shot through it) Or cover the peep hole, or disable the ring cam or security cams, then shoot you because you don't peacefully surrender. Things that make sense to some people, but only when viewed from the their narrow one sided perspective.

Because it's the cops who say they're cops, you have to somehow know it's true that they're cops, even though you can't double check.
Blocking your view so you can't check to see that they're NOT cops, REALLY REALLY seems like something that someone who WASN'T the cops would do. Ya know?


(As a side note, when I was young and we worked in the dormitories, that was always fun. Knock on a door, the kid would say"Yeah?" and you'd reply with "Search warrant!" The response was always a VERY excited "WHAT!?") :D
Click to expand...

Where does it say you have to open the door? If I haven’t done anything illegal and someone knocks on my door stating they’re law enforcement I’m under no obligation to open the door or answer. And if they don’t have a warrant or exigent circumstances they can’t enter.

So there it is.
 
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#50
Franko said:
The health and well being of innocents trumps officer safety. Police officers are provided arms the public can't have, trained, given special powers, and paid handsomely because they are expected to risk their lives to protect the public.

If those officers aren't willing to risk their safety for the rest of us they need to be removed from their jobs and men and women with the proper amount of steel in their spines need to be hired.
Click to expand...

What trumps what depends on who created the unsafe situation.
 
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