The Army did fuck that up bad.
- Thread starter Tucker301
- Start date
yes it's a shame that we idolize sports and entertainment stars the way we do. with the hours and hours and hours of media coverage over kobe (and of course may God rest his soul along with the others on that chopper), you'd think he cured cancer AND created world peace.
I am sorry @Basher. I was out of line and I apologize.
I was super pissed off and seeing red this morning because of the Tillman comparison bullshit I heard on the radio. I didn't read your post closely enough/ read-into your post more than you actually said, and then bit your head off very unfairly (like a troglodyte or even Trog). I was also conflating some comments in the other tread that weren't yours. You were right to react the way you did.
Far from worshiping them, I'm actually pretty tough on veterans and service people. I tend to not cut them any slack, because I'm emotionally retarded and sometimes assume they are too. No one asks me to help them with their PTSD.
All that changes when they sacrifice themselves. They are the only real heroes that exist for me, and their deaths are the only deaths that actually have meaning for me. I'm sad when someone is deprived of time living (X1000 when it's a kid), and I'm sad for the family's loss, but I have very strong faith, and I don't fear physical death at all.
I also don't sympathize with you about the pilot. I'm not a pilot, but if he was a commercial captain and ran his vessel aground in low vis and killed his passengers I would not be at all sympathetic to him either. I would be really pissed at him, because if it were me, unless making passage in the open sea and nowhere near shoal water, I'd take off all way and start two prolonged blasts less than two minutes apart till conditions cleared, and fuck any passengers who don't like it and/or miss their appointments. I am cautious to the point of cowardice (especially with passengers), because I've seen what happens if you let it get away from you, and I know how easy it is to let it get away from you.
I was going to send an apology PM to you directly, but that's kind of chickenshit. It's more appropriate for me to express contrition openly, and you have it. I hope you'll accept my apology for my hasty slights and ill conceived comments.
I was super pissed off and seeing red this morning because of the Tillman comparison bullshit I heard on the radio. I didn't read your post closely enough/ read-into your post more than you actually said, and then bit your head off very unfairly (like a troglodyte or even Trog). I was also conflating some comments in the other tread that weren't yours. You were right to react the way you did.
Far from worshiping them, I'm actually pretty tough on veterans and service people. I tend to not cut them any slack, because I'm emotionally retarded and sometimes assume they are too. No one asks me to help them with their PTSD.
All that changes when they sacrifice themselves. They are the only real heroes that exist for me, and their deaths are the only deaths that actually have meaning for me. I'm sad when someone is deprived of time living (X1000 when it's a kid), and I'm sad for the family's loss, but I have very strong faith, and I don't fear physical death at all.
I also don't sympathize with you about the pilot. I'm not a pilot, but if he was a commercial captain and ran his vessel aground in low vis and killed his passengers I would not be at all sympathetic to him either. I would be really pissed at him, because if it were me, unless making passage in the open sea and nowhere near shoal water, I'd take off all way and start two prolonged blasts less than two minutes apart till conditions cleared, and fuck any passengers who don't like it and/or miss their appointments. I am cautious to the point of cowardice (especially with passengers), because I've seen what happens if you let it get away from you, and I know how easy it is to let it get away from you.
I was going to send an apology PM to you directly, but that's kind of chickenshit. It's more appropriate for me to express contrition openly, and you have it. I hope you'll accept my apology for my hasty slights and ill conceived comments.
@Fig apology accepted, though not entirely needed. We’re all adults here (though we may not always act like it, haha).
I see your points and won’t disagree with you on most of them.
As for the pilot, that’s a tough one. Good people make mistakes all the time. We don’t know what happened up there yet, and won’t for some time. Heck, we’ll never know what went through his mind, or why he took whatever actions he may have. Weather is a bitch, man. You can depart in conditions that are perfectly acceptable for safe VFR, and things can close in on you fast. In a helicopter, the prudent thing to do is land before things get too bad. Sometimes that doesn’t happen, and we often never get the chance to ask why.
One of the heli groups I belong to on Facebook started a new thing this week where pilots are encouraged to take a photo of their ship and the weather conditions and explain why they made a precautionary landing.The admins of the group are all pretty experienced pilots, and as part of this initiative, will back any pilot who may get in trouble for landing. If said pilot’s boss doesn’t like their call and/or fires them, these guys will help them find a new gig. A much needed paradigm shift when the common culture in the heli world is take the flight or find a new job. That kind of thinking, while all too prevalent, needs to stop, as it’s a major driving force for why guys take these kinds of flights, especially in the EMS sector. People have families to house and feed, and the fear of getting fired for turning down a flight and not being able to provide for your family is real. Lots of erroneous thought patterns play into this, like “I can handle a little weather, no big deal,” or “It won’t happen to me.”
Anyway, point being is that lives were lost, and lessons need to be learned. The NTSB has a lot of work to do before we’ll have any idea of what happened.
And yes, to come full circle, you and Tucker are right that the MSM is bastardizing society through their jacked up values. We may disagree on some finer points (I’ll tell you where you can shove that “K,” Tucker!!!
), but I think we all agree on that. Every life has value, but the focus is whack and our fine men and women in uniform are drastically under appreciated, and we need to do what we can to change that!
An example of a photo taken today of a guy who landed in a school yard on a charter flight. Vis dropped quick, to where that tower 1/2 mile away and 900’ above ground level was obscured at the top. This guy lived to fly another day. Why Ara continued on the conditions he did is a mystery, though we know he was IFR rated, so in theory he should have been fine, but it’s not always so cut and dried. Until you’ve experienced spatial disorientation, you can’t understand just how quickly and severely it can set in, and if you lose visual references and don’t (for whatever reason) transition from flying by visual references outside to flying solely by reference to the instruments, bad things happen fast when you’re at low altitude.
I see your points and won’t disagree with you on most of them.
As for the pilot, that’s a tough one. Good people make mistakes all the time. We don’t know what happened up there yet, and won’t for some time. Heck, we’ll never know what went through his mind, or why he took whatever actions he may have. Weather is a bitch, man. You can depart in conditions that are perfectly acceptable for safe VFR, and things can close in on you fast. In a helicopter, the prudent thing to do is land before things get too bad. Sometimes that doesn’t happen, and we often never get the chance to ask why.
One of the heli groups I belong to on Facebook started a new thing this week where pilots are encouraged to take a photo of their ship and the weather conditions and explain why they made a precautionary landing.The admins of the group are all pretty experienced pilots, and as part of this initiative, will back any pilot who may get in trouble for landing. If said pilot’s boss doesn’t like their call and/or fires them, these guys will help them find a new gig. A much needed paradigm shift when the common culture in the heli world is take the flight or find a new job. That kind of thinking, while all too prevalent, needs to stop, as it’s a major driving force for why guys take these kinds of flights, especially in the EMS sector. People have families to house and feed, and the fear of getting fired for turning down a flight and not being able to provide for your family is real. Lots of erroneous thought patterns play into this, like “I can handle a little weather, no big deal,” or “It won’t happen to me.”
Anyway, point being is that lives were lost, and lessons need to be learned. The NTSB has a lot of work to do before we’ll have any idea of what happened.
And yes, to come full circle, you and Tucker are right that the MSM is bastardizing society through their jacked up values. We may disagree on some finer points (I’ll tell you where you can shove that “K,” Tucker!!!
), but I think we all agree on that. Every life has value, but the focus is whack and our fine men and women in uniform are drastically under appreciated, and we need to do what we can to change that!An example of a photo taken today of a guy who landed in a school yard on a charter flight. Vis dropped quick, to where that tower 1/2 mile away and 900’ above ground level was obscured at the top. This guy lived to fly another day. Why Ara continued on the conditions he did is a mystery, though we know he was IFR rated, so in theory he should have been fine, but it’s not always so cut and dried. Until you’ve experienced spatial disorientation, you can’t understand just how quickly and severely it can set in, and if you lose visual references and don’t (for whatever reason) transition from flying by visual references outside to flying solely by reference to the instruments, bad things happen fast when you’re at low altitude.
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
U.S. military retrieves bodies but Afghan jet crash remains a mystery
Pilot on the high-tech Air Force plane declared an emergency before coming down in Taliban-held territory.
www.google.com Looks more like CFIT than a shoot down.
Similar threads
