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1903 Springfield Low Serial Re- birth

FatBoy

After 20 years, going anonymous..
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 29, 2001
2,333
1,995
TN
I posted this rifle up in the rimfire section but figured I'd bring it over here because it saved a low serial 1903 action and a lose m2 bolt.

As stated, low serial (jacked up heat treat) Springfield 1903. Bolt is a loose M2 from a Springfield M22. To make it work, a custom insert is machined to fit in the magazine well and fit the mag catch. The barrel is a 16 twist Douglas chambered with his match reamer. Stock is a Minelli with a custom made top side, milspec hardware. Inlet was cleaned up and barreled action was bedded. All the hard parts except the bolt are parkerized. Trigger was replaced with a Timney 209. Earle Unertl based added. Once assembled the mag insert and catch are hand fit and worked over to make the mags feed, catch/release and get the firing mechanism consistant.

It's a ton of work, but saves some history and I think makes one cool ass rimfire without tearing apart an M22.

Scopes are borrowed for the time being, but it'll wear a 16 or 20x 1.5" Unertl with calibrated head.

My buddy, who built this and most of my other rifles, spent the better part of a year acquiring all the parts and then a couple weeks on the fitting, stock work and tuning. I can't thank him enough. He's only making seven, split between single shot and repeaters. I badgered him into building it. Took a couple years for him to forget how much he hates building them for him to agree.

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I really like it! I have one of the numrich .22 conversion kits for these, and use it all the time.

I think there would be a huge demand if someone would make a .22 conversion kit again.

But that looks really good, and I bet is a blast to shoot!
 
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I actually haven't shot this one yet. I shot the original , which was an A3 that had Unertl mounts added. Tim said with SK standard they hold an inch at 100y if the wind is steady. I don't think he tried any other ammo. It'll be late next month before I can afford the scope. I'm hoping for a 20x Unertl with fine crosshair.

Those Numrich kits looks pretty awesome.
 
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Nice job. Must be a lot of fun to shoot.

I notice a backcut USMC front sight on there is that original or a Bill Bentz repro.

The USMC built there M2 into the "service rifle" configuration I understand. I guess their belief was that a "trainer" should look like the rifle you are training for.
 
Nice job. Must be a lot of fun to shoot.

I notice a backcut USMC front sight on there is that original or a Bill Bentz repro.

The USMC built there M2 into the "service rifle" configuration I understand. I guess their belief was that a "trainer" should look like the rifle you are training for.

I'll ask about the front sight. I have no idea.

edit: Tim made it, but pulled it off after that pic and put a non-back cut blade on. He only puts those on the centerfire rifles he builds. Now I have to bribe him into making me one :)



Do you know if the Corp used a single shot insert or if they used the 10 rounders like the Numrich kits? I don't often compliment the Corp, but I have to tip my hat to their marksmanship training and philosophy.
 
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I'll ask about the front sight. I have no idea.

edit: Tim made it, but pulled it off after that pic and put a non-back cut blade on. He only puts those on the center for rifles he builds. Now I have to bribe him into making me one :)



Do you know if the Corp used a single shot insert or if they used the 10 rounders like the Numrich kits? I don't often compliment the Corp, but I have to tip my hat to their marksmanship training and philosophy.

Pretty sure USMC just used standard stocks and used M2 magazines, 5 shots only.
 
Do you know if the Corp used a single shot insert or if they used the 10 rounders like the Numrich kits? I don't often compliment the Corp, but I have to tip my hat to their marksmanship training and philosophy.

The Marines used a lot of .22 rifles for training. But didn't do any inserts like the Numrich kit. They had the 1922 and the M2 .22's. As Pmclaine said at times they put the Rear sight base on the these, and used regular stock sets. To basically turn them into a .22 service rifle. But they had other training rifles too. The Remington 521T, the Model 65H&R, WRA 52C, MC-58, and Remington 40X to name a few. And I'm sure there are a lot I'm forgetting.

Pretty sure USMC just used standard stocks and used M2 magazines, 5 shots only.

They actually used a lot of unserviceable stocks for these. Ones that had breaks and repairs that wouldn't hold up to .30 Caliber, but would hold up fine for .22.
 
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I got my back cut sight. He puts standard blades up front of the rimfire because nobody is going to shoot irons with a Unertl or Lyman up top, and the standard blades are thin so why waste a back cut one a rimfire?

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Here you PMClaine. Straight from the Marine docs. A 1922/M2 in a service rifle configuration.

By the way he did a really nice job on the sights!

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Tim has started making a few strait stock CMP sniper rifle now that CMP has actually accepted that both were used on A1s. He finished up a 30-06 A1 (secant) today with a Criteron barrel. Was a drill rifle he brought back to life. He buys the shit people don't want from CMP. Broken stocks , drill actions, etc. He repairs them as well as making all of the handguard. Mixed his own stains to match them to the stock and give it the aged look. I am going to have him build me a CMP rifle, but I'm also going to have one built in probably 6.5x284, 284win, etc. Funny how good they were 115 years ago at balancing a rifle and making it comfortable in the hand to carry. Lighter than an M16A2 and in 30-06. Fucking mans rifle.

His Garands are something to see. The 308 "Tanker" was the tits, but it's first trip to the range someone saw it an had to have it at the "I don't want to sell it price",, so off it went to a new home. Wish I had a pic of it.
 
My M2.....

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It shoots

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My Springfield with telescopic sight...

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Tim has started making a few strait stock CMP sniper rifle now that CMP has actually accepted that both were used on A1s. .

I'm so happy to see that a Straight stock 1903A1 Unertl Sniper is finally accepted as fact. I found my first rifle at a show years ago, and it had a straight stock on it. The guy had no idea what it was, and honestly at the time I wasn't sure it was real.

When I first found it, I had "experts" on them claim the rifle was a fake, just because it had a S stock. Some of them were big name authors that write about them in books. lol That's actually what got me into researching them at the archives and I found a ton of evidence on them being in a straight stock in the official Marine docs. Actually it rewrote a lot of what we thought about the rifles.

The Marine rifle teams even did modifications to these stocks that are found on these rifles, so these stocks were on the rifles before the sniper conversion ever took place.

I sort of think finding my rifle is what changed a lot of minds. It was only the 2nd one found with a S stock at the time, and the previous one had been found about 15 years previous. But now I think about a 1/4 of the ones known are in S stocks. It's actually becoming pretty common, as most of the newly discovered rifles over the past 5 years have been in S stocks. Probably because no one gave them a second look because they weren't in a C.

It even makes me wonder how many ones in straight stocks have been swapped to a C stock, just because some book states that is what is correct.
 
How many of these stock designations are actually real military terms or just pure manufactures of the collector community?

I believe when the Army designated an 03 an "A1" that defined any rifle with a "C" stock or a "scant" stock but the Army didnt define them by stock they were just A1s and the walnut stuff beneath the metal was just a stock.

Do we as enthusiasts invent terms, nomenclature and limits on configuration that the military never cared about?
 
How many of these stock designations are actually real military terms or just pure manufactures of the collector community?

I believe when the Army designated an 03 an "A1" that defined any rifle with a "C" stock or a "scant" stock but the Army didnt define them by stock they were just A1s and the walnut stuff beneath the metal was just a stock.

Do we as enthusiasts invent terms, nomenclature and limits on configuration that the military never cared about?


lol, yeah we really do. That is the one thing I have really discovered digging in the archives. We have really screwed up a lot of things.

The M1941 sniper name that every book and everyone says on the Unertl rifles. That never existed back then. It's a total fictitious name that someone coined for them that stuck. Usually they were just called 1903 Sniper, or 1903 with Telescopic sights. In fact about every 1903 sniper rifle from WWI to WWII was coined in these terms. In 1945, the Marines did name the Unertl rifles, but that name really wasn't even used that much. But yeah that 1941 name is totally a collector created term and was never used by the Marines.

Mann Niedner on the one variation of the Marine A5 snipers. That never existed. It was tapered block Marine Corps type.

Trench gun for the shotguns, totally made up by us. For instance they called it the 1897 riot with bayonet attachment.

Pedersen device is made up by us. It was something like Model of 1918 pistol in the docs. It was some variation of that name. I didn't go back and look, but I have the docs somewhere. But it's always a play on that Model of 1918 pistol.


But those are just a few off the top of my head. We as collectors have coined these terms and they never existed back then.

What really sort of irks me is there are a few that claim to be experts, and several are top name authors that I now realize never did any real in depth research at all. They just basically copied some previous author and filled in the gaps with their opinions. To me they have done a real disservice to our collecting as their info is taken as gospel, when in fact a lot isn't factual. One in particular I know a lot of us have his books.

And that extends to online experts as well, one Marine M1903 "Expert." I don't see him active much anymore, but at one time he was considered an expert. I later came to find out, he was total BS. He had been lying to me and everyone online for years about all this research he had, and all these unpublished MArine Corps documents and serials. The sad thing I once idealized him. He turned out to be a total fraud. That one really ticked me off as I had bought and sold rifles from his guidance. When he was actually just makings stuff up to sound like an expert.

Now some guys were real. John Beard comes to mind. He's a pretty good guy. We have shared a lot of info with each other over the years and I value his friendship.

But that is my biggest pet peeve. The more we dig in the archives we are realizing a lot of our known info isn't correct. And we need to really come together, go back to square one, put down the books, and all start doing research again.

There are Archive locations all over the country, and no one has ever hit them. God only knows what is hiding out there.
 
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Now the Marine didn't seem to use the 1903A1 term for the type of stock they used. In fact they hated the C stock and actually used the term "Army C stock," in almost a derogatory term. They resisted the C stock with a passion and took broken Straight stocks to repair over new Army C's. That is how much they didn't want them.

The only thing I have seen named the 1903A1 in the Marines, at least till 1945 were the National Match team rifles. I think that is where the Unertl sniper name comes from in 1945. This is the name in the one doc :

Rifle (Sniper’s) Caliber .30 M1903A1, W/Telescope, Sighting, Unertl 8X.

I think because they were all built on NM or rebarreled NM rifles, the Marines called them the 1903A1. Because they were built on the 1903A1 National Matches. But I don't think it had anything to do with the type of stock.
 
Bought a 16x Unertl today. Should be here next week. Looking forward to finishing this up and getting out to the range.
 
Bought a 16x Unertl today. Should be here next week. Looking forward to finishing this up and getting out to the range.

Do you have a source for Unertls. I'm looking for a ten X 1.25.
 
Ebay. A buddy got a pristine 1.5" calibrated head 20x with standard mounts for $650. I paid a little less for this one, but the finish is a little rough. something is pushing the prices down a little.

there are three 1.25" 10x Unertls listed right now.
 
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Ebay. A buddy got a pristine 1.5" calibrated head 20x with standard mounts for $650. I paid a little less for this one, but the finish is a little rough. something is pushing the prices down a little.

there are three 1.25" 10x Unertls listed right now.

Those 1.25s have been on there awhile. Something fishy about them as all the pictures appear to be same scope. Mounts are not Unertl either.

Im being a picky bastard on the exact Unertl Im looking for.
 
Yes I have to hat on my watch list. Only thing I'm not liking is the "bubble" screw hands behind the Pope rail. I'm looking for similar with flush screws similar to a USMC scope.

But that's a great scope.

some of the really clean ones have gone for over $1200. I tend to think that's just the nature of auctions and isn't indicative of what they should actually cost. the no shit, early 8x Unertls are down around 5 grand now, but that's still crazy.

There is a guy who repairs early external adjustable scopes and he can power bump them. At what 8Xs go for, he should offer a "CMP Package" where he drops any 1.25 or 1.5" scope to 8x and verifies the click adjustments at "X.X" mount spacing. I think he'd do pretty well, unless the Chicom-Malcom cut into that market too deeply.

I'm sure you know about this guy. He usually has some interesting stuff. edit: I don't think he does the repairs, I'll ask Tim who he uses.

http://unertl.alexweb.net
 
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some of the really clean ones have gone for over $1200. I tend to think that's just the nature of auctions and isn't indicative of what they should actually cost. the no shit, early 8x Unertls are down around 5 grand now, but that's still crazy.

There is a guy who repairs early external adjustable scopes and he can power bump them. At what 8Xs go for, he should offer a "CMP Package" where he drops any 1.25 or 1.5" scope to 8x and verifies the click adjustments at "X.X" mount spacing. I think he'd do pretty well, unless the Chicom-Malcom cut into that market too deeply.

I'm sure you know about this guy. He usually has some interesting stuff. edit: I don't think he does the repairs, I'll ask Tim who he uses.

http://unertl.alexweb.net

That site is so dead Egyptian mummies study it.
 
Scope arrived today. Objective has a little discoloration when viewed from the front but it's clarity and color are great while I was focusing the ocular and messing with parallax out back. I didn't notice any abnormalities, etc.

Now, I need to pic up some SK standard, a cleaning rod, a sling (probably use a Turner) then go get zero'd and have some fun.
 
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Is Dewey not contactable? I guess though, if Fatboy contacted him, he's still at it?

I got my scope off ebay. Spoiledsports. They were great to deal with and the scope is better than advertised.

Not sure if Dewey is still at it BUT his scopes change every once on a while.
 
I got my scope off ebay. Spoiledsports. They were great to deal with and the scope is better than advertised.

Not sure if Dewey is still at it BUT his scopes change every once on a while.

I've tried calling all the numbers all I get is not in service. I've sent emails they get kicked back. Perhaps he still exists but I have not been able to reach him.

I'll check spoiledsports. My problem is I'm looking for a particular configuration of scope. Magnefication I'm not as picky but there is a certain profile scope I want.
 
best bet, post a WTB on the CMP forums. You'll pay for it, but if you want quality and rarity...
 
Thanks, Guys.

Next one is going to be a strait stock. Maybe a 30-06 throated for 185 Jugs or 200 SMKs or a 6.5x284. Not sure of I'm going to try to find an A5/B5 or just run another 16x-20x Unertl.

Tim ordered the bit to put the finger grooves in the stocks.

Then,,,, Garand.
 
took it out yesterday. Need some tweaking. A stronger striker spring, possibly some clearance from the sear and maybe a little adjustment to the extractor. The misfires hindered grouping, but turkeys at 100 wasn't even fun. It's going to be a shooter when its sorted.
 
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Can a standard 30-06 C stock be fitted to a 1922 M2?

You can but you will have a few problems. The major one the M1922 doesn't have the rear sight base on it. So there is no way to attach a normal handguard or even if you did, there would be a big hole missing where the RSB was.

The 2nd issue you would have to either remove the lyman receiver sight, or just cut the stock out for the lyman sight. There was a later style lyman sight that I believe would clear the stocks. But I'm not the best at that.

But the easiest way to do it, would be to remove the lyman sight all together and add a RSB. That is the what the Marines did on some of their's to make them a more accurate trainer.