- Thread starter Travis224
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The TAC6 also based on the 68SPC case will hit 2700 with the Berger 105 from a 18" AR barrel so I'm sure he will be able to confortably best that in a bolt gun with longer barrel.
Interesting... I'll be watching this closely, as I am really leaning towards doing a Grendel-based 6mm (6mm AR Turbo 40; the name sounds like the designation for a Japanese crotch rocket motorcycle, doesn't it?) for a Howa Mini action that's currently chambered in .223; what length barrel are you looking at?
...And..., I'm putting in a wake-up call for when it gets to be 6.5 Valkyrie time... (6.5SPC...? Beuler..., Beuler...?)
Greg
Greg
You know it's going to happen.
The version with the unshortened 68SPC case in 224, 6mm and 6.5 has been around since long before the Valkyrie anyway, so naturally people will neck the V up.
Hell I wouldnt be surprised to see a .17 or 20 cal at some point either but have no interest in those.
You know since forever you could pick high preformace 6PPC ,22PPC ,.220 Russian that all run laps around Valkyre ,that is now presented as if is some breaktrough .
WWWHHHAAATTT?????
Funny isn't it what some good marketing mixed with a name from Norse mythology will do.
It is an interesting little cartridge though.
To me the whole point of Valkyrie was to be able to run 80 and 90 grain bullets through an AR-15. When going to a bolt gun, the advantages go away.
Here’s where I’m coming from on this. Firstly I shoot a 6x45 and love the simplicity of necking up brass and shooting. When I ordered the reamer I wanted a simple neck up 6mm with good brass quality and availability for less than 1$ a piece. I’m hoping the Starline brass gives me this or the fact that cheaper brass wears out sooner negates the savings. The fact that the 6ppc/grendel variants have spent more time on the market lends to a lot of small variations and PPC brass will need neck turned unless you get a specific reamer and then Lapua sometimes runs different neck thickness depending on the year made so I wanted to get away from that as well. Heck, it’s a pain to sort 223 brass to be 100% positive I have enough to shoot consistent groups!
I’m going to try 87 vmax to see how those work and work up to see what my barrel will stabilize and watch my velocity as well. I plan on loading 10 cases and fire them repeatedly till they lose primer pockets. Anything above 8 loading will please me. My gunsmith is a Center fire guy and he is excited enough to rebarrel a PPC rifle to this to see how it runs in group competition (for fun obviously since the PPC is still the overall king).
Pictures of progress and shots fired coming soon.
I’m going to try 87 vmax to see how those work and work up to see what my barrel will stabilize and watch my velocity as well. I plan on loading 10 cases and fire them repeatedly till they lose primer pockets. Anything above 8 loading will please me. My gunsmith is a Center fire guy and he is excited enough to rebarrel a PPC rifle to this to see how it runs in group competition (for fun obviously since the PPC is still the overall king).
Pictures of progress and shots fired coming soon.
I’m building one as a non recoiling trainer/ rifle for my daughter. I’ll have 1/2 barrels for AR uppers, but a bolt gun set up to push the 95SMK’s. Going with the 224V vs 224 Grendel in the bolt gun gives up some performance, but has the benefit of off the shelf ammo. It also has a bit better performance than the 223 as a trainer since it has a bit more case capacity.
It should be a fun project no doubt and look forward to seeing your results.
The Berger FB 88 VLD are great as well and are right in the range you stated, that's if your barrel likes them.
The Berger FB 88 VLD are great as well and are right in the range you stated, that's if your barrel likes them.
Call Columbia River Arms. They already make one. They also make a 22x6.8, a 6mmx6.8, a .257 x 6.8, and also a 30x6.8. Dies are available through CH4D.
I own a 6x6.8. Neck down in one step with the CH4D dies and start running.
You would be correct, and thats why their is so much buzz about it. A bolt, a mag, and a barrel swap that you can do yourself gets you a low recoiling long range target rifle. The logistics of it are great.
Great idea,but i did not know Tikka has a 6.8 spc bolt face or will be modifying a .223 one. Been contemplating turning my 223 savage Mod10 into a Valkyrie with a bolt head change and waiting to see if somebody comes up with a decent 6.5 twist barrel.
The point of .224 Valkyrie is that the case head fits in an AR15 bolt much better and the case taper fits the magazine well much better.
The same way as 6.8SPC is a better fit in an AR15 than 6.5 Grendle.
There is not much comparison between those two because their goals are very different and 6.5 Grendle is just trying to do what a 6.5 Creedmoor does easily in a large frame AR.
For what it's worth, I own a 6.8SPC AR15, a couple 6.5 Creedmoor LR308 type rifles and I'm thinking about a .224 Valkyrie barrel for an AR.
If I was building a small bore bolt gun, I'd probably try to find a wildcat like a .224-250, a 22-250 with the shoulder pushed back, a fast twist and a throat like the Valkyrie to seat heavy bullets at magazine length.
That would have enough case capacity to play around with case taper, shoulder angle and neck length until you get something that's easy on brass, fast enough, with reasonable barrel life and using a bolt that's as common as dirt.
The same way as 6.8SPC is a better fit in an AR15 than 6.5 Grendle.
There is not much comparison between those two because their goals are very different and 6.5 Grendle is just trying to do what a 6.5 Creedmoor does easily in a large frame AR.
For what it's worth, I own a 6.8SPC AR15, a couple 6.5 Creedmoor LR308 type rifles and I'm thinking about a .224 Valkyrie barrel for an AR.
If I was building a small bore bolt gun, I'd probably try to find a wildcat like a .224-250, a 22-250 with the shoulder pushed back, a fast twist and a throat like the Valkyrie to seat heavy bullets at magazine length.
That would have enough case capacity to play around with case taper, shoulder angle and neck length until you get something that's easy on brass, fast enough, with reasonable barrel life and using a bolt that's as common as dirt.
All of this is interesting as heck. Much thanks for the additional info.
I had no time to do research today. Three appointments at the VA Hospital today, 80 miles pretty due West. Cardiology, Audiology, and Prosthetics.
Then an hour and a half getting 'Malled' at Costco for our monthly 'big shop'. These days My Wife and I each use use the electrical shopping carts.
Then a midday supper at the Lotus Garden, Tucson.
Then home in rush hour traffic. Then logged in here.
Never a dull moment.
Please keep the updates coming.
Greg
I had no time to do research today. Three appointments at the VA Hospital today, 80 miles pretty due West. Cardiology, Audiology, and Prosthetics.
Then an hour and a half getting 'Malled' at Costco for our monthly 'big shop'. These days My Wife and I each use use the electrical shopping carts.
Then a midday supper at the Lotus Garden, Tucson.
Then home in rush hour traffic. Then logged in here.
Never a dull moment.
Please keep the updates coming.
Greg
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Doing some more research...; is it true that all roads lead back to the 6.5 Grendel?
I had to start with a 223 bolt face and opened it up.
OP, what barrel length are you going to run?
Just curious as I'm sending off a Cz 527 to be chambered in 6 Grendel with a 23-24" 7.5 twist barrel. Going to try 110 SMK's, 115 dtacs, and 95's of various flavors. Anyway, will be interesting to see how velocities and powder charges compare.
Just curious as I'm sending off a Cz 527 to be chambered in 6 Grendel with a 23-24" 7.5 twist barrel. Going to try 110 SMK's, 115 dtacs, and 95's of various flavors. Anyway, will be interesting to see how velocities and powder charges compare.
For me, they all lead away.
Nosler already has their yet to be produced .24 Nosler SAAMI approved according to these SAAMI Drawings
This is going to be interesting. I have a 20" 6mm Hagar upper that is ok with 85 sbt bullets at mag length. It would be over the top to have mag length 105s in readily available brass. Use the .24 Nosler brass, or if it still has rim problems neck up the Valkyrie brass and use the 6.8 bolt.
This is going to be interesting. I have a 20" 6mm Hagar upper that is ok with 85 sbt bullets at mag length. It would be over the top to have mag length 105s in readily available brass. Use the .24 Nosler brass, or if it still has rim problems neck up the Valkyrie brass and use the 6.8 bolt.
The most exciting part of the whole development of the 224V for me is that there may finally be some quality bolt actions being made with the bolt face diameter of the 68SPC.
Not that I necessarily want a bolt action 68SPC since it does everything I want in the two AR platform rifles I have in that caliber its the Wildcats that are of most interest.
As is so often the case Remington screwed up with the 68SPC round by submitting piss poor specs for the original design to SAAMI and then instead of fixing it they just let it lanquish, luckily others corrected it and came out with the spec II designs with better free bore and lead that handled pressure correctly.
The 260Rem was pretty much left to die by Rem but shooters and others that saw the promise of the round revived it and the 30AR which would have been an even better candidate for wildcatting is pretty much obsolete now. I haven't seen a box of 30AR on a shelf for sale in years.
Yep, they all lead away from 6.5 Grendel for me, too. Bt things change...
Not surprised, you bit the 6.8 bug, which left you on the band wagon. 6.5 Grendel is a much better all around round then the 6.8.
Curious, isn't a 22-250 the same as a .225-250.
It all comes back to the 6.5 Grendel or 220 PPC round. I never understood the advantages of a .224 Valkyrie besides marketing hype.
Low recoil I guess?
Back to the OP. This is an interesting thread , tag for future builds
All around what?
My 6.8 is kind of specialized, it will hit whatever I aim at from 0-600 yards, it runs like a top because it doesn't use weird curved magazines and it will last a long time because it has a chrome lined Lothar Walther barrel and an ARP super bolt.
My 6.5 Creedmoor's will run circles around a Grendle at 1,000 yards.
A .224 Valkyrie or similar cartridge is just a paper puncher designed to run in an AR, very specialized.
A 6.5 Grendle surrounded by my guns would be an all around disappointment.
I'm not a bandwagon guy, I've had a 6.5 Creedmoor since 2012 and my 6.8 SPC was made before SPC 2 was a thing (my chamber is very similar), I've had it a long time.
If you can look at a 6.5 Grendle AR magazine without thinking "WTF?", you might be on a bandwagon.
If it was easy to make an accurate AK in 6.5 Grendle, I might have one because it wouldn't have magazine or bolt head issues. Feeding it with Lapua brass might spoil that idea.
As for 22-250, it's too much of a barrel burner and the poor BC of the light weight bullets makes it fall behind as a long range target round. My suggestion of a .224-250 would be to fix those problems and make a round better than .224 Valkyrie and easier to build in a bolt action (no oddball bolt needed).
My 6.8 is kind of specialized, it will hit whatever I aim at from 0-600 yards, it runs like a top because it doesn't use weird curved magazines and it will last a long time because it has a chrome lined Lothar Walther barrel and an ARP super bolt.
My 6.5 Creedmoor's will run circles around a Grendle at 1,000 yards.
A .224 Valkyrie or similar cartridge is just a paper puncher designed to run in an AR, very specialized.
A 6.5 Grendle surrounded by my guns would be an all around disappointment.
I'm not a bandwagon guy, I've had a 6.5 Creedmoor since 2012 and my 6.8 SPC was made before SPC 2 was a thing (my chamber is very similar), I've had it a long time.
If you can look at a 6.5 Grendle AR magazine without thinking "WTF?", you might be on a bandwagon.
If it was easy to make an accurate AK in 6.5 Grendle, I might have one because it wouldn't have magazine or bolt head issues. Feeding it with Lapua brass might spoil that idea.
As for 22-250, it's too much of a barrel burner and the poor BC of the light weight bullets makes it fall behind as a long range target round. My suggestion of a .224-250 would be to fix those problems and make a round better than .224 Valkyrie and easier to build in a bolt action (no oddball bolt needed).
I think flyer might be under the misconception that because the 7.62x39 was the "parent" case for the 6.5 Grendel (well, grandparent case maybe), that it retains the 7.62x39's body taper. I believe he's thinking of 7.62x39 AR-15 magazines. I could be wrong.
Its Grendel for starters and .224 is a 22.. so a 22-250 is a .224 bullet... so taking a .224-250 would be the same as a 22-250. So your running heavier bullets..
And no, I never said the 6.5 Grendel is superior over a 6.5 Creedmoor. Out of a gas gun, 6.5 Grendel is much lighter on recoil, just like what the .224 Valkyrie is claiming .
Glad you have all this cool stuff for awhile. Not sure the point there. Also, what's the issue with mags? I run mags for a 6.5 Grendel with no issue.. so what's wrong with them? Did you know that AA brass is Lapua brass? Saved you some money there to run it in an AK... which was to prove what? Not following there.
Oh I've had my 6.5 SAUM since before 2012 as well... do I get a cookie.
The actual parent case and design for the Grendel came from the Russian 220 PPC.
So where do you get these "weird curved magazines"? Grendel has less body taper than 6.8spc, and every one I own or have built run like a top just like your 6.8.
You apparently dont understand the difference in small frame and large frame calibers either comparing grendel to creedmoor, or valkyrie to 22-250. You really should patent that 224-250 wildcat before someone steals that idea!
By the way, here is a pic of one of my 6.5 grendel mag next to a 5.56 mag. I'll keep looking for one of the weird curved mags so I can say WTF.
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Travis224,
Are you making any headway on the load work up, I'm an impatient ass and am eager to see the numbers ?.
Are you making any headway on the load work up, I'm an impatient ass and am eager to see the numbers ?.
Pretty soon Hollywood will have some serious reboot competition....
Wait.....
Wait.....
Did a little shooting the other day, this has zero freebore so I'm trying the varmint bullets and working up from there. Currently I'm shooting a 58vmax @ 3000, 75grn vmax at 2750fps. I'm working my way up and watching pressures and brass life. Looks like I have a ways to go before I hit the wall.
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Grendel is my baby.
I have a 6x6.8 which is pretty similar to what you're running. I can run 70grn Sierra blitzkings over 3,200 fps so yeah, you have some room yet
. Keep the load development going, it makes for good reading. Most importantly.....have fun!!
Reviving this thread as I’ve been looking into a good 6mm AR variant and shocked there isn’t much in regard to factory mods and ammo. The 6.8 SPC has wide use but is not “efficient” and the new Valkyrie has popularity because it shares 6.8 SPC components. Seems like the ideal round would be a 6x6.8 or 6mm Valkyrie but until Federal or Hornady decide to make affordable and accurate ammo I don’t think we’ll see widespread acceptance. @ChadL i’d like to hear more about your 6x6.8 project and OP anymore on your 6mm Valkyrie?I have a 6x6.8 which is pretty similar to what you're running. I can run 70grn Sierra blitzkings over 3,200 fps so yeah, you have some room yet
You're only gaining a little longer barrel life or a little more energy by going 6mm in the 6mm224, like with 100's or 105's, if those will even fit at mag length, fine if that's what you're going for and if you are set on 6mm then so be it.
224V is great as is in most things considered. I have a 6mmFatRat and when this barrel is done I'll go for 224V. Higher BC at similar speeds to 6mmFatRat with less recoil and powder.
I can tell you first hand those 22 cal 88's at 2800 fps are impressive at distance, and easier to hit with in the wind than the 6mm 95 SMK.
Just don't cheap out on the barrel.
224V is great as is in most things considered. I have a 6mmFatRat and when this barrel is done I'll go for 224V. Higher BC at similar speeds to 6mmFatRat with less recoil and powder.
I can tell you first hand those 22 cal 88's at 2800 fps are impressive at distance, and easier to hit with in the wind than the 6mm 95 SMK.
Just don't cheap out on the barrel.
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Thank you Steve, I have given the 224V serious consideration, but keep coming back to 6mm, but since 224V is so prevalent right now, then maybe that is the way I should go... been thinking of a BSF carbon fiber barrel for this one, just can't figure out if I want to go 20" with rifle length or 22" with extended. The barrel will wear a suppressor and I know longer barrels tend to have issues with dwell time and such. Do you have a recommended barrel?
I bought a Wilson this time and had a Krieger before, I'm just going to spend the extra money for a Krieger or Barlein from now on for a precision AR. That last Krieger was one accurate barrel. I placed 2cnd in a two day tactical match and won a night match with it.
I couldn't say what's best with a suppressor but without, the +2" gas hole location works great for the 6mmFatRat and the 6mmART40.
I was mostly just pointing out the high BC's in 22 cal. Not having experience with 224V I guess I'll leave that advice to those well acquainted with the workings of 224V and AR's.
I couldn't say what's best with a suppressor but without, the +2" gas hole location works great for the 6mmFatRat and the 6mmART40.
I was mostly just pointing out the high BC's in 22 cal. Not having experience with 224V I guess I'll leave that advice to those well acquainted with the workings of 224V and AR's.
Well, so far I've been using my 2nd barrel in 6mmValkyrie that's been reprofiled and cut to 16". This has become my #1 rifle for coyotes and has proven a hammer. Keep in mind I'm running a 16" barrel..
My current load is H322 under 65vmax and am right at 3000fps.
I did throw 5 58vmax at it and was able to hit 3250fps. Neither load showed any heavy pressure signs via flattened primers.
In comparing my friends .243, with the same barrel length (16") and max load of H4895, he is running 3450fps...with 58vmaxes.
Not saying that my chamber is anything truly amazing here, but to use 11 grains less powder and be within 200fps of the .243 tells me I'm running that little case to it's fullest potential with all the powder burning before the bullet leaves the barrel. And it's something I had designed by JGS before the 224Valkyrie was even released to the public so for it to work as well as I'd hoped is a good feeling.
My current load is H322 under 65vmax and am right at 3000fps.
I did throw 5 58vmax at it and was able to hit 3250fps. Neither load showed any heavy pressure signs via flattened primers.
In comparing my friends .243, with the same barrel length (16") and max load of H4895, he is running 3450fps...with 58vmaxes.
Not saying that my chamber is anything truly amazing here, but to use 11 grains less powder and be within 200fps of the .243 tells me I'm running that little case to it's fullest potential with all the powder burning before the bullet leaves the barrel. And it's something I had designed by JGS before the 224Valkyrie was even released to the public so for it to work as well as I'd hoped is a good feeling.
Been looking for Krieger and Bartlein's with barrel extensions, you'd think more would make these but they are hard to come by... I thought Criterion used to have a line of Krieger barrel's with extension but can't find those, Krieger was the parent company at one point but not sure if they still are.
I run a tac6 from AR performance. Basically a 240valk ackly imp 30degree. On a 22" barrel, behind 30gr lvr seeing around 3k fps on 95gr smk's. Harrison runs a pretty nice shop and have been really happy. 1moa average with my coyote load shooting in the 5's all day long. The reamer is set up for this bullet, and that's all I've ran. He has a facebook page also if you give a rip about fb...
