Build vs Buy, your experience.

I built a 6.5 Grendel using a JP barrel and Anderson upper/lower. And, I built a 6.5 Grendel using an Odin works barrel and Anderson upper/lower. Neither has been run "hard" but neither has ever had a malfunction. Both have Geiselle triggers. The JP has a magpul PSR stock and the Odin works has a magpul ctr collaplible stock. Shooting the same ammmnition in both rifles I see lower precision with the Odin works barrel, but both are sub moa at 100 yards. If one were going to malf it would be at a match, so I am contemplating taking the JP to the next local match- the odin works is set up as a hunting rifle.

Can home builds be accurate? Yes
Can home builds be reliable? Yes
Can factory rifles be dumpster fires? Yes

I would spend any extra money on a quality barrel and stout upper receiver such as the Vltor Mur1 other than that most of the other parts seem pretty standard to me.
I also try and go with an adjustable gas system on everything anymore.
For a good trigger at a great price Larue has a special on the MBT right now I would definitely check that out, for $89 you wont find any better.
I have had good results with Wilson Combat and AR-PERFORMANCE barrels, both are competitively priced and perform well in my experience.

Every factory rifle I've bought eventually turns into a home build anyways, the receiver set ends up being the only original parts. So it's a huge waste of money for me to buy a rifle anymore.

7075 for the upper receivers, torque the barrel nuts towards the upper end with a quality barrel and you can meet or even beat the factory rifles in terms of accuracy. Reliability is about the tune provided you have quality parts.

AMP! said:

My current build will be a 6.5 Grendel on an Aero enhanced receiver set. I'll start a thread on it's accuracy and such when I get it finished later this fall.

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Looking forward to your progress and updates, I still have a set of Aero receivers in the safe that I had planned for a 224V build but I'm still watching and reading about all the little bugs being worked out with it.

Build. You can get it exactly as you want it from mundane to exotic. Just do it right & pay attention to detail. Lots of good comments already made so no sense in repeating. But I have come to use an adjustable GB on everything...........just makes lifer easier & allows for more flexibility.

If you use quality / higher end parts, not likely you'll save a lot of money, but you'll get what you want. Only downside is resale compared to a recognized name brand factory gun.
MM

Some high end boutique ARs have coatings and custom features that you can't really get if you build but you usually can get the same performance as high tech coatings if you're not afraid to run it wet and most of the custom features seem like fluff.

I always build.

Next one for me is going to be an Aero M5E1 enhanced receiver set with a Wilson Combat 6.5 Creedmoor fluted 22" Ultimate Hunter barrel. Total cost will be right around $1,000 with an upgraded trigger (Larue or Rise), 15" Quantum Mlok free float handguard, Toolcraft BCG and decent quality parts everywhere else.

That should be a decent 1,000 yard AR and not as overweight as my 24" Criterion bull barrel AR.

I might be tempted to buy an all Aero M5E1 but I'm not impressed with their barrels so it doesn't make sense for me.

There are a lot of AR15 budget options so build vs buy isn't as much about money as choice.

TonyTheTiger said:

Every factory rifle I've bought eventually turns into a home build anyways, the receiver set ends up being the only original parts. So it's a huge waste of money for me to buy a rifle anymore.

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This man ^ speaks the truth...Factory gun very seldom remains virgin.

Building is always superior to any factory rifle bar none, as long as you know what you are doing (or pay for the time of someone who does). There are just an immense number of fantastic parts you can choose from that are not available (or not ALL available) in any factory rifle.

However, once you push the budget below about $700 you enter a zone where buying will be about equal to building.

I’d say that I could build a minimum .75 MOA rifle for $750. I haven’t done that because I always splurge for some nicer parts here and there, but the splurges are for tacticoolness and not accuracy.

Not including optics of course.

It's way easier to totally blow your budget with a home build. Higher quality parts cost more, shipping from multiple vendors, sales tax, buying over several days/weeks/months lessens the sticker shock, etc. Then, there is the replacement with even higher quality parts over time and that $700 build can double or triple or more in cost... I still advocate building over buying. In the long run, I have never regretted blowing a budget to build a rifle I want. I do, however, have a bin of "spare parts."

Anymore I prefer to buy vs build simply for resale. Even if you use good parts, the home built ones don't sell all that well in my experience. I do enjoy building them though, it is fun researching and planning out the build.

I like to try new stuff so selling is a big factor for me.

I've had great luck rolling my own- I tend to spend my money on a good upper receiver, bolt, trigger, and barrel. I currently have a SS 1/8 18" upper that gets consistent .5-.75 MOA with Hornady Black and a 16" 1/7 CHF upper that gets around 1.0- 1.5 MOA. I've found that by taking the time to hand select parts that are appropriate for the system (not just expensive) will usually yield very good results. On the subject of resale; no one wants someone else's build- its a risk. You never know the skill level of another private individual. I usually just part out when I want to try something new.

Bradu said:

I like to try new stuff so selling is a big factor for me.

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I think if you buy the right parts or build a gun mostly from one manufacturer you will have the best luck in performance and resale value. I’m currently doing this. Found hellva deal on Midwest Industries billet upper/lower, new Midwest Industries Combat rail, and using a White Oak Armament Predator barrel with custom chamber. The majority of this build will be MI and any parts that aren’t will be semi-custom or of high quality.

Bcm is hard to beat. Good value and good resale.

Pusher591 said:

I think if you buy the right parts or build a gun mostly from one manufacturer you will have the best luck in performance and resale value. I’m currently doing this. Found hellva deal on Midwest Industries billet upper/lower, new Midwest Industries Combat rail, and using a White Oak Armament Predator barrel with custom chamber. The majority of this build will be MI and any parts that aren’t will be semi-custom or of high quality.

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Agree. A lot of the home builds I see up for sale are anderson lower, matrix upper, yadda yadda, $950.
My home brew is a .5 moa gun and exactly what I wanted for a fraction of the cost of what a built .5 moa AR would be.

I've only sold one gun in my life, a Big 5 Mossberg 500 combo that I had bought and never taken out of the box.

Resale value doesn't matter to me, purchase value is much more important.

On the other hand, complete Aero M5E1 starts at $1,500, you might be able to get one for $1,200 in a sale but probably won't get more than $900 for it selling it used.

I think what I build for $1,000 is probably better than what I could buy for $1,500-1,600 complete even on sale so if I did try to sell it for $700 with complete build documentation and receipts I'll have lost the same amount of money but with a lower initial investment.

Oh, if anyone offers to sell you a rifle with 1/2 MOA potential for $700, take it.

I prefer to buy rather than build, here’s an example why.

Colt LE6920 sells used for ~650 or less around here, swap out rail and barrel (for another Colt if I want chromelined), maybe put a B5 sopmod on it and it’s still a Colt. That name will always be worth more than a Anderson, Spikes, or PSA.

Plus, I like ponies.

AMP! said:

So it comes down to, I’ve built a few and bought a few. My experience is if you get decent parts, they work. Only ARs I’ve seen fail were from PSA builds and other “budget” parts.

I’m building a few with Ballistic Advantage barrels, Aero receivers, etc. and am curious what others with, we’ll say medium priced builds, are getting in terms of accuracy and reliablility.

Not JP or KAC parts, but not cheap as possible builds either. From other’s experience, will something like this run as well as say buying another DDM4 or JP?

Not talking about as accurate. The difference in .5 MOA and 1 MOA I’m fine with. I don’t reload so it’s a non issue right now. But are you guys getting consistent .9-1.1 MOA or better with these type of builds?

Asking for both myself and a buddy. We’re trying to save a few hundred bucks to put towards ammo and practice over buying a higher end rifle. Training trumps gear, right?

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If you can't afford a JP, LWRC, LaRue, LMT, GAP, etc - I would recommend building a rifle. You can splurge on some parts, and possibly find good deals on other standard parts. If you don't already have some gunsmithing tools, you may lose out as well. For instance, if you built a rifle with Aero Precision parts, but used a Proof or Rainier Arms Ultramatch barrel and Geissele trigger.

Keep in mind, theres many great rifles and optics looking for a good home for a good price under the For Sale Forums.

flyer said:

I've only sold one gun in my life, a Big 5 Mossberg 500 combo that I had bought and never taken out of the box.

Resale value doesn't matter to me, purchase value is much more important.

On the other hand, complete Aero M5E1 starts at $1,500, you might be able to get one for $1,200 in a sale but probably won't get more than $900 for it selling it used.

I think what I build for $1,000 is probably better than what I could buy for $1,500-1,600 complete even on sale so if I did try to sell it for $700 with complete build documentation and receipts I'll have lost the same amount of money but with a lower initial investment.

Oh, if anyone offers to sell you a rifle with 1/2 MOA potential for $700, take it.

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Exactly this. I can't imagine spending $1500 on an AR.

Build is for me. These include a 6.5 Creedmoor, 6mm Creedmoor and 6.5 Grendel. Any AR platform as far as I'm concerned. Still messing with the load for my built 6.5, but it's producing this:

I have bought two factory rifles in my lifetime. One was a CMMG piston and one was a Bushmaster .308 ORC with plans to swap out some parts. The CMMG was sold and the Bushmaster turned into essentially a home build with only the receivers remaining, and then that rifle was rebuilt using spare or unneeded parts and sold. Every other rifle I own has been built, and I prefer it that way.

One thing to take into account with building a rifle is all the tools you would need. I bought an AR10 from JP but I'm currently building an AR15 in 6.5 Grendel with mostly JP parts. This will probably be my only AR15 as well so having to sink money into tools that I probably won't use again kinda blows. Reducing clutter is a big yes factor for me of buying from the factory. You end up with a workshop of very specific tools when you start gun smithing.

few months ago, finished my first full build/assembly (224 valk). all my other guns are full factory (jp, lwrc, armalite). i'm very happy i tried the build, just got me more intimately involved with all the components and inner workings. i used pretty nice components (mega billet upper/lower/rail, rainier ultramatch barrel, geissele trigger, jp guts, etc) and only saved a few hundred over a factory jp build.

If I just wanted something to shoot half decently, I'd buy. If I wanted for any particular use or cared about real accuracy, I'd build.

I have a RRA and it's a very accurate AR, it's just not quite the configuration I favor so it doesn't get shot much. In fact I pulled the lower to put on my 458 SOCOM Tromix upper for the past year.

I see no value in high cost ARs in 223. It's just too easy to build them exactly as I want them with all the accuracy one can expect from an AR (.5 MOA or a bit better) for a fraction of the price. I have had zero reliability issues building ARs. Perhaps in more exotic chamberings there is value in people knowing the tricks to get them to run. But the AR was designed to run 223 and every one I have has run fine.

I just call Keystone Accuracy and have them build the upper for me with a Krieger barrel. Then build or buy your own lower and you have a shooter for sure.

I've done them both ways, these days I have less guns but exactly what I want, I've learned that if I get what I want the first time I don't feel the need to try something else all the time. For general AR's I'll do my own builds but for a pure accuracy build it was always hit and miss, sometimes I'd build a hammer, other times a lemon, most were pretty solid 0.75-1 MOA guns with a factory load they liked. The problem is when that lemon comes along it costs $, time, and frustration to fix it. With an AR in .223 if you want 1 MOA that's pretty easy but it's still expensive if you use top parts. When I've gone with other commonly recommended cheaper accuracy barrels the consistency just isn't there. When you get into the large frame or odd chamberings reliability issues become just as important to squash as group size.

I've since started doing a hybrid method for my accuracy intended AR's. I usually put together the lower I want, amass some upper parts, and have a good smith spin a bartlein/krieger barrel, and assemble/test the upper for me. They have everything to consistently ring maximum accuracy and reliability out of the platform. In all honestly the end price is usually not much more than me doing it myself. Since I started doing that I haven't had the desire to build accuracy based uppers anymore, the results are just too good and too consistent, for not much more $ to not have a good smith do it.

My last 6.5 creedmore AR was a perfect example, I looked at doing it myself with a JP supermatch barrel, using the barrel builder on JP a 6.5 supermatch barrel with gas block, bolt, compensator, zero assembly is $919. I was able to have a good smith cut a bartlein barrel, same gas block, threaded + compensator, with assembly of the rest of my upper parts, and testing, for only about $250 more. To me it's more than worth that knowing what gets returned is going to be a hammer.

Now if I was building .223 uppers and only wanted 1-1.5 MOA out of them, I'd just build them, you can save a ton of money if you are willing to give up that extra 0.5-0.75 MOA. If you want an upper you are sure will outshoot you most every day, it's worth it to have a good smith that specializes in AR's at least cut a barrel and assemble the upper. Plus it's easier to get exactly what you want in a chambering, length, contour etc.

Either way you can wind up with a great rifle. Just don't have any spare parts that's the real concern and if you do it's cheaper to walk them to the dumpster than keep them.

roamin said:

Either way you can wind up with a great rifle. Just don't have any spare parts that's the real concern and if you do it's cheaper to walk them to the dumpster than keep them.

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lmao. This is true.

Me: “I should sell that spare buffer tube and pistol grip”

Also Me: “shit, that buffer tube and pistol grip is all but a whole rifle. The best financial decision is to just build a new rifle around those parts so they don’t go to waste.”

jpgolffl said:

lmao. This is true.

Me: “I should sell that spare buffer tube and pistol grip”

Also Me: “shit, that buffer tube and pistol grip is all but a whole rifle. The best financial decision is to just build a new rifle around those parts so they don’t go to waste.”

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I'll find a good deal on a single part and that becomes a multi-month, supremely expensive build, because of course every rifle has to have its own optic.

Reloading to save money is a fool's errand. You don't save money, you just shoot more. Building a rifle to save money- in my experience- is also a fool's errand. You don't save money, you just build exactly what you want. Ok, maybe if you can stop at 1, you might save money. But, anything "spare" eventually morphs into a new rifle...

I would find something used in the classifieds that matches what you want. Let someone else spend the time and take the hit. There are a ton of top tier guns for really great prices there.

With my bolt guns, I have traditionally been a buyer of factory rifles, with one exceptional custom, a 2001 Sav 10FP with a 28" premium aftermarket 260 Rem barrel and a McMillan A3 Tactical stock. It has had some excellent smithing done to it and it's a once in a lifetime honey of a rifle. I don't sell rifles; I pass them down to descendants, so they need to be safe and bug free.

AR's are a different story. I bought a good 24" LR Varmint/Target AR15, and built another identical to it from the factory Kit when a second shooter moved in. The rifles are solid and reliable, and came from the factory with nice 2-stage factory target triggers. Maybe my thinking is old school, but while I believe in having enough gun and enough guns, I especially like the ability of the AR to swap out Uppers in a minute or two. So I buy (and have once built) additional Uppers, configured with additional interesting capabilities. Again, nothing is being obtained with an intention to sell, ever.

This provides variety with a neat side of economy, and the guns perform to the full extent of my own ability. I don't feel I'm missing out on much at all.

Greg

PS, I will limit my Hype to recommending the Luth AR MBA series of stocks. I think they are 'extra dandy'. As a shooter who has ergos that fall way outside the average dimensions, the MBA works for both me and my quite diminutive Granddaughter, and that is a vast range of ergos.

In the end, I’ve circled back and ended up with factory Colt, BCM, and KAC. Reliable, accurate enough, warranty, and good resale. I’m satisfied with this. Do I ever replace small stuff? Sure, but a trigger is no big deal. Same with a buttstock.

Like Greg, I build uppers more than lowers but I just bought a bunch of lowers that I'll build over time so I can rack complete rifles instead of uppers. I'll wait on deals to finish off the lowers exactly like I want and try not to buy buffers that I'll be changing for something lighter or heavier later.

I hesitate to suggest having a custom AR barrel turned and chambered by anyone but an AR specialist. I'm sure a gunsmith that does custom bolt action barrels has all of the ability to make an AR barrel but it is easy to find equally skilled gunsmiths that do it all the time. It can also be a whole lot cheaper to buy a quality brand name barrel off the shelf. The difference can be small, I have a Criterion that shoots factory ammo 3/8 MOA on a good group and 1/2 MOA pretty regularly if I don't screw it up. I don't know how much better it can get and that's without loading for that particular barrel.

Of course that is most of the appeal of building, you can use quality budget friendly parts in places where it doesn't matter and spend money where it counts to get really good results.

I'm going to leave this here:

Aero M5E1 lower $85
Aero M5E1 enhanced upper with Quantum Mlok handguard $170
Wilson Combat 22" fluted ultimate Hunter 6.5 Creedmoor barrel $276
Toolcraft Nickel Boron BCG $138
Aero LPK $30 (no FCG or grip)
Larue trigger $82
Gas tube $10
POF P308 buffer and tube assembly $80
Strike Industries Viper fixed stock $31
Strike Industries grip $10
Thread protector $6

That's $918 and I need to add an adjustable gas block and charging handle. Some of those parts like the POF buffer kit, I might get cheaper (Black Friday sales probably).

So right around $1,000 with a barrel I am hoping will be quite good, a very solid free float handguard system, matching receivers so compatibility issues are minimized, a good trigger, a nice BCG which should be more tolerant to running dry, a POF buffer tube with anti-tilt features, adjustable gas and nothing sleazy.

Nothing factory built in that price range comes close to the quality there. Aero factory built has a BA barrel which I'm not a big fan of, a standard LPK style trigger and it's more expensive. PSA is cheaper but I don't know why anyone would buy a 6.5 Creedmoor (or any large frame AR) which has a reputation for shooting groups larger than 1 MOA. There are plenty of cheaper semi-auto .308 class firearms out there if you don't care about accuracy.

The tools required for the build are a screwdriver with a set of hex and torx bits, a Picatinny rail clamp and armorer's wrench to tighten the barrel nut (and buffer tube castle nut), that's about it, not a huge investment.

jpgolffl said:

lmao. This is true.

Me: “I should sell that spare buffer tube and pistol grip”

Also Me: “shit, that buffer tube and pistol grip is all but a whole rifle. The best financial decision is to just build a new rifle around those parts so they don’t go to waste.”

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Yep. God help me if I ever find that safety detent that shot accross the room and disappeared.

I have been on both sides of the fence. I went back to buying factory rifles that have a good reputation. Adjustable gas blocks are just another moving failure point. I have gone through a couple gas blocks that are supposed to be good. Either the screw gets stuck from all the carbon or you dont have the nice detents anymore for each position.

If the rifle is setup correctly, it shouldn’t need an adjustable gas block. Either the barrel port diameter is too big, or your buffer weight is off or junk. My DDM4 shoots perfectly suppressed or unsuppressed without needing an adjustable gas block. Doesnt matter if its cold during winter or hot during summer.

Bought a new FN15, lucky to hold 2 - 2.5 MOA. Sent it back to FN, they retuned it saying the rifle “was in spec”

Shipped the rifle to Frank at Compass Lake and asked him to free float a Krieger barrel on it. This is how it shoots now. 5 shots, one big hole.



Liked the results so much, I had him barrel another from “parts” I had. Shoots the same.

DellaDog said:

Bought a new FN15, lucky to hold 2 - 2.5 MOA. Sent it back to FN, they retuned it saying the rifle “was in spec”

Shipped the rifle to Frank at Compass Lake and asked him to free float a Krieger barrel on it. This is how it shoots now. 5 shots, one big hole.

View attachment 6941325

Liked the results so much, I had him barrel another from “parts” I had. Shoots the same.

View attachment 6941328

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Ragged holes are so last year.... these days people want to pepper the entire target with lead. Then you can be sure they are dead....

I build them. Since they are easy and even I can do it lol. Only problem with building is not much of a warranty. I’ve also always wondered about the liability issues with building them though

My first and only ar build was fun as hell but honestly I didn't know what I was doing. From doing the research, planning, searching for parts (new & EBAY) & buying tools. Its also been a couple of years since I started that build and the rifle is getting better (hopefully I'm getting better 2). In hind sight I realize now I should have taken a class from a great AR smith from the beginning. Ive had some work related training in its use but I'm no gun smith. Pretty much like anything else Ive learned in life. A great teacher is priceless & saved me in more ways then just $. My factory (POF) is amazing, I'm very pleased & I trust it with my life. But I'm like a kid always messing with the home built for fun.

I've been somewhat distraught about the build vs. buy issue. I'm not new to shooting, but I am new to PRS, building, and taking my marksmanship to the next level.

After getting caught up in a lot of the noise on the internet of people claiming their home built rifles were shooting 1 hole groups and so on, I thought I might as well try it. I built a .223 Wylde rifle on an Aero Precision receiver set with a Ballistic Advantage 18" fluted SPR barrel. I topped it with a 1-8x Primary Arms Platinum series optic and it's unbelievably accurate with 69gr SMK and 77gr SMK hand loads.

Later on last year, I thought to myself that my since my first build went so well I'd try a large frame AR in 308 Win so I could "save" the barrel life on my match rifle (that's how I justified it). I ended up building an M5E1 Aero Precision build in 308 Win that was beyond a pain in the ass to get to shoot. My first barrel was from Ballistic Advantage... I ended up sending it back multiple times due to it not passing a No-Go gauge and having a loose chamber. They sent me a replacement barrel, which I ended up returning because it wouldn't shoot better than 2 or 3 MOA at 100 yards. After having dumped a ton of time and money I decided to try a different direction and I went with a 24-Inch Criterion Barrel from Fulton Armory. I mounted this in a non-enhanced upper, lapped the receiver, and began working up a match load. At this point, my build with the new barrel is shooting much better. It's barely sub-moa - but at this point I've realized that about 0.8-0.9 MOA is about all I can expect given my abilities and the platform.

In hindsight, I could've probably just bought a JP LRP-07 given all the time and money I've spend to get this to shoot. On a positive note, I've become very intimate with my rifles and their parts and I think shooting my M5E1 build has made me a better shooter as gas guns exploit all your mistakes.

I’m solidly in the build camp.
I build what I want with the components that I want and then I don’t have to shuffle parts around. I realize that is part of the charm of an AR15, but I build mine to last and run good from the first magazine.
I should buy a couple Colt 6920’s and put them away for the next Democrat that gets elected President and prices skyrocket.