I Know It Isn’t Just Me

?‍ Me too

This is gonna be a loooong thread.

Started shooting PCPs after service. It turned to 22LR after few years.
The long range is the fun in it.

It is not only about the first round hit in unfamiliar conditions, but knowing what to do to make it happen. It is the overly complicated nature of this game that I like.

I actually do not own a single CF, have a lot of them around me though. In short ranges I find them rather dull and long ranges (500m+) are a long ride to reach so I am not (very) eager to get one. I do intend to get an AR style semi as my next purchase.

Going to add a picture of mine too..

The rifle range is only 200 yards, not much of a challenge with a centerfire. Seen a guy shooting the full distance and making hits with a rimfire and that baffled me. Who would have thought that was possible... ? Started looking into this and that, next thing I know I'm buying a fully loaded djdillondon rifle and mounted a Nightforce NXS (SFP) in Seekins 4 screw rings. Now it sits in a MPA chassis, FFP scope, dedicated suppressor, tripod with leveling head and can shoot at the house, be it 70 yards. Plus when you're out shooting folks at 200 with a rimfire vs their centerfire, just freakin awesome

Looks like you have it bad. I am right behind you. I started with handgun. I had 2 1911's build for USPSA , sold them and when to centerfire rifles. Build a few Varmint guns, then to 2 Full custom action ( holding on to them). Now for rimfire. I had a few 10-22 with custom barrels, then to all Kidd Supergrade, Then a CZ 455, and Tikka T1X. Now I want a Vudoo.
Mark

Many years ago, I bought a PWS T3 Summit Rifle. Sat in the safe, I was more interested in shooting USPSA, but I wanted a 22 just to plink around.

PWS T3, Weaver 3-10x SFP Mil



In 2019 May, I went to the range to take my fiance out shooting for her first time, and someone there mentioned there was some competition called NRL22 and I should try it out. I was intrigued and wanted to try it out. Problem is there was no way I could get a bipod on this rifle and I heard a bipod was pretty essential.

I ran to Cabela's and picked up the Magpul X22



I went to the match, finished second from the bottom. I learned a ton.. what SFP vs FFP was... my mistake using hold-overs and missing things since I wasn't fully zoomed in. Parallax of 100y really doesn't work in NRL22 when I was trying to shoot things up close. Learned a whole ton of things. It was a lot of fun.

So then this led me to the Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50.



After that, I went and kept trying to get this rifle to group. It just wouldn't shoot tight groups worth a damn. This was also at the time everyone was talking about Tikka T1X and KRG Bravo, and I just jumped right in -



I also needed a bipod that had some ability to handle cant, so I bought an Atlas... after all the browsing on SH.

I didn't like the Pan ability on it, so eventually sold the Atlas PSR for a Cal Gen2 / Thunderbeast Bipod. (Kept the Thunderbeast).

From June till January, I shot the Tikka T1X in NRL22 and local other rimfire PRS matches. My fiance started getting into it too and she got the Ruger 10/22 Competition because she was a lefty and I couldn't find a good lefty bolt at the time.



During September I got behind a friend's MPA and someone else's MDT and I noticed I really liked the thumb grip on the MDT. No way to upgrade the thumb on the Bravo. I also wanted an Arca rail, and wanted to tweak the balance out, both ended up being a bit of an investment on the Bravo. I was going to buy an MPA but they didn't have a T1X inlet. MDT's T3 inlet worked for both and I have a T3X 308 so I figured MDT would be a good investment.

Being vain, the skinny barrel wouldn't look great on the MDT ACC, and this was around the time KOD was doing all his IBI reviews, so I ordered an IBI.

All of this stuff showed up in November, 4 days before the next NRL22 match. I told myself I shouldn't do anything until after the match, but shiny stuff was too much for me to refrain. I put everything together on that Wednesday, got a few rounds behind the rifle and competed with it. I did horrible. Oh well, it was fun though.



I kept practicing, won my December NRL22 match, placed second in January, qualified for Nationals. I spent a lot of time tweaking my IBI barrel with feed ramps and chambering. At the end of Jan, a friend wanted to buy my Tikka, and I decided I love this sport enough and plopped down money for a Vudoo. Being selfish, and wanting to compete in Feburary/March while the Vudoo was being built, I upgraded my fiance's 10/22 to an Oryx chassis and shot her rifle for Feb/March



Then right when quarantine started, my Vudoo finally arrived, and I still haven't shot it yet... I hope I get it zeroed before Nationals

I picked up rimfire as an alternative to a short distance club range that didn't allow me to stretch out my CF rifles and they got boring after working up loads and what-not. Just didn't have much to do with them beyond hunting and short-distance shooting. Thought everyone needs a 10/22 and it started. No real intentions to comp or club shoot until I saw some stuff on NRL22 and that looked like fun so started that direction.

Few pics of some of my current rifles



And the girlfriends 10/22. If she is happy and shooting it allows me more time to be shooting as well.

heartburn said:

I picked up rimfire as an alternative to a short distance club range that didn't allow me to stretch out my CF rifles and they got boring after working up loads and what-not. Just didn't have much to do with them beyond hunting and short-distance shooting. Thought everyone needs a 10/22 and it started. No real intentions to comp or club shoot until I saw some stuff on NRL22 and that looked like fun so started that direction.

Few pics of some of my current rifles

View attachment 7287830View attachment 7287831

And the girlfriends 10/22. If she is happy and shooting it allows me more time to be shooting as well.

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Sweet I always wanted the McMillan A5-22... just didn't have the patience to get one / inlet / etc...

My love affair with .22’s and fancy glass started after shooting with a buddy from work who owns a Annie 1727 w/ a NF ATACR 7-35 on it. I scoffed when I put together the prices that someone would dare spend that kind of money on a .22 let alone a scope (all glass is the same right?). So I did what any young dumb “kid” would do and bought a little RPRR in .22 with a Vortex Crossfire ii and a borrowed Atlas bipod said friend was generous enough to donate to throw on it and thought I can make it shoot as good as said 1727. Shot a couple matches, was generally displeased as I saw how much better tier one rifles and glass were.

So through out the last year, following the threads on here, and living vicariously through my buddies Annie and JP AR, I purchased first a Schmidt and Bender 5-25 and then more recently a vudoo v22 and could not be happier with it. People weren’t kidding when they say buy once, cry once. Metaphorical tears were shed over some of these purchases but the happiness that it brings me knowing that I own something I will never sell is priceless. Chassis’s will probably come and go as I like to switch things up but the barreled action and scope will remain the same short of catastrophe. I am thankful for my buddy showing me the rabbit hole/oxymoron that is precision .22 lol

I know I have a problem..
I even quit drinking so I could afford more ammo!

Heh

My tagline on another Forum....

"Only God can judge me." Merlin

"Merlin..Your'e a rimfire whore." God

Mine started after shooting a vudoo 22 at the 2017 ISC (Intl. Sniper Comp) vendor shoot down at fort Benning. We had just got done with the week long grueling comp (the History Channel actually filmed it, "Ultimate Sniper") and I was pumped to finger jam all the latest sniper goodies the vendors had to offer. After wandering over to the firing line and shooting a 12" plate at 300m over and over and over with the little red vudoo...I knew I had to look into 22lr more deeply. I then discovered the rimfire section existed on the hide. The 455 PT is me and the red JAllen is that vudoo that started it all for me...

I wasn't able to keep all the many nice 22's I owned over the years, but by selling and upgrading as I went, I was able to use them as stepping stones to what eventually evolved into this - an Anschutz 1827F-N biathlon rifle. Which is IMO the pinnacle of rimfire ownership to me.



So reliable, so accurate, so ergonomic, and with one awesome trigger! Though not without some problems that needed addressing for heavy scope usage, because the rifle was meant for Olympic aperture peep sights. A bedding job and a heavy steel custom fitted 20 moa pic rail was the fix.

I used to contemplate building a trainer to closely emulate my go-to turn bolt rifle but shooting my 1827F made me say no, NO way was I gonna be happy doing that. I just love the way this gun works too much, it's amazingly fast, and no need to ever break a cheek weld in awkward positions! Pull bolt lever with your pointing finger, the action snaps open by overcoming a slight tension, then push bolt closed effortlessly with your thumb. The truth is I've won a ton of 22 tactical matches with this thing and it's often that I was able to spend the time to make good shots solely due to how fast the action is.

Man, oh man, the thought of a copy of a 1827F-ish centerfire in 6mmBRA would make me sell my Mausingfield turn bolt so quick....

Anyway the funny thing is I bought this little Steyr LGB1 biathlon trainer "PCP air rifle" before I got the 1827F! I liked it so much I had to have the rimfire version, lol! It's a 5 shot repeater and cocks almost the same as the 1827F. 8.4 grain domed pellets at 550 fps.
Story - Happenstance smiled on us a few days ago when my 2 friends and I met for some shooting during our weekly shootfest. We had a rare fly hatch, they were all over the place but fortunately not to the point of being very annoying. We poured beer on a metal table and I'll tell yuh those flies were thirsty little buggers! 3-4 sizes would land on that table, it being 10 yards away. Just so happened that I hadn't shot the Steyr in a while and had thrown it in the truck. Well needless to say that a massacre ensued of epic proportions, lol! We three killed hundreds of them and after a while it was called shots, a wing, a head, cut body in half, or straight on pile driving, as we saw fit, lol. The gun is accurate, oh and I have my Athlon Talos BTR 4-14x44 mounted up which focuses down to 10Y on 14x. A .5 mil holdover would atomize and a .9 mil holdover would cut a wing clean off.

I know what Eodave means. But for me, going down a rabbit hole started a long time ago. I'll get some "group" photos together.

Shot a total of 850 rounds today out of 4 different rifles. Ask me if I had fun.

I still remember when it came to building or buying a rimfire, the question turned from 'how does this seem practical and why should I do this?' To 'why wouldn't you?' Who cares if it directly mirrors a centerfire. It's a sport and a passion in it's own right.

I was maybe 8 or 9 years old and my Dad’s buddy brought out a bull barreled 10/22. It was the first time I’d ever heard of or seen a heavy barrel. My Dad was pretty firm on shooting iron sights to learn how to shoot... but this thing had a scope! And in a caliber I was comfortable with!!! I have no idea how many of the bucket o bullets I shot at cans but I was trying to make holes in the middle of the o in coke. I had to stop because my thumb was bleeding from loading mags.

I thought that was the most accurate .22 possible then, and for years after.

Tonight, I’m dropping a Vudoo into a Manners with a diamond trigger. Hope I give the “legend” of that old gun a run for it’s money.

...cuz all MY money ran to this setup!

My Dad bought a rem 597HB laminate when they very first came out and I was around 10-11. Going from the Marlin 880, and the Remington 572 it was amazingly accurate.

A dozen years later the 597 had been gathering dust as he was distracted with a cz452 and a custom 10/22. I ended up buying the 597 off him and doing some ammo testing, it's proven to be sub-moa with eley and a tune up.

Next is probably a b14r in a bravo for the nrl style matches.

The 597 wears a sightron 6-24 with 1/8th moa target dot and adjustments for our indoor 50' range.

Eoddave27 said:

You will not be disappointed with the Vudoo. Honestly that’s kind of the whole reason to buy a Vudoo. If you aren’t happy with a Vudoo you will more than likely not be happy with anYthing.

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I agree! I like having equipment that when it’s not doing what it’s supposed to (hitting target), it’s most likely operator error. It takes a big variable out of the equation.

Clean out the safe of centerfires I rarely shoot and bingo... an expensive rifle that will have 1000’s more rounds on it, at less cost per shot. Seems to make sense to me.

Full disclosure, I shot 1 NRL22 match last month, came in dead last, loved it, can’t wait to do it again. I will get better, my equipment won’t have to.

just an FYI, @Eoddave27 is not just a rimfire addict, he is an enabler too!

just kidding, he's a great dude to shoot with and his sons are gonna be a force

My rabbit hole started by looking to build a trainer to match my centerfire rig. I looked about and the CZ455 Varmint had just come out, everyone said it was the hot ticket so I picked one up, stuck it in a Boyds tacticool and went on my way.

Then, one day, Tom (former MD @ peacemakerNTC) shows up on the 'hide asking if folks would be interested in "peewee PRS"....
That sounded intersting, figured I'd give it a go if he could get it together.

Went to my first match in what became then Eley Rimfire PRC and it was like torching up a crack pipe or something..I WAS HOOKED!

Shot every match that season and finished the season 23rd overall. That wasn't going to do, simply unacceptable.

Pillar bedded the gun in the off season, changed optics, tuned trigger, stepped up a price bracket in ammo.

Shot the second season and finished 14th overall....NOW IT WAS ON!!!!!!

Rebarrelled to a Fedderson Barrel, dropped it in a KRG Bravo, Upgraded glass to a Vortex PSTII, parked it in Seekins rings, Timney trigger, ammo testing galore..

Shot the third season, was on track to place top 5 and missed the Finale due to a scheduling conflict with opening day of Antelope in Wyoming but bet your bottom dollar I'll be back at it this year!

So, in summation, I picked up a .22 to turn into a trainer.......

Because it didn’t happen without pictures... my project from Friday night:

I shoot almost exclusively 22lr, proportionally I reckon I've shot 400:1 rimfire to centreline in the past 2 years.

I shot my first centrefire match in years a month ago, after a little practice before hand to confirm dope at range and get used to recoil again, I was perfectly prepared with 99.9% of shooting being rimfire.

$120 buys me 100 reloads for my 260 or 1000 rounds for my 22lr, I know what improves my shooting more.

Trippm said:

Because it didn’t happen without pictures... my project from Friday night:
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That is straight up my dream rifle!

Currently shooting a tikka, and it’s a huge improvement over the Savage I had before. I’m definitely planning on a Bravo as soon as they have them again. And an IBI barrel is very tempting.
All the while though, I keep thinking to myself, that if I just had a Vudoo those bullets would go where I want them.. and I wouldn’t be wondering if it’s me the gun or the ammo.

Wrencoforge said:

That is straight up my dream rifle!

Currently shooting a tikka, and it’s a huge improvement over the Savage I had before. I’m definitely planning on a Bravo as soon as they have them again. And an IBI barrel is very tempting.
All the while though, I keep thinking to myself, that if I just had a Vudoo those bullets would go where I want them.. and I wouldn’t be wondering if it’s me the gun or the ammo.

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Hell of a rig! I too had a savage that shot well but nothing to write home about. Biggest problem I had was the accutrigger is not for me. I had no clue that I was a trigger snob... but turns out I am.

Love the Tikka I own, and like the T1X a lot. The ones I have seen were shooters for sure

Wrencoforge said:

All the while though, I keep thinking to myself, that if I just had a Vudoo those bullets would go where I want them.. and I wouldn’t be wondering if it’s me the gun or the amm

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I have been battling this thought for about a year now. I've got my CZ shooting in the high .3's pretty damn consistently with a couple different ammo choices and I just don't know if I can expect to get any better going to a Vudoo....or, I should say, $2000.00 better. In the PRC game there are so many variables outside the gun that I don't know that it makes sense. I can buy a LOT of ammo for that money!

Trippm said:

Because it didn’t happen without pictures... my project from Friday night:
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That is quite possibly the best looking stock, period.

Yep, the rimfire rabbit hole is a monster! I have a CZ 452 Special (offhand, iron sights), a 452 American (off hand, scoped), 457 MTR (Scoped, Prone/bench), and just purchased a Vudoo V22 (Scoped, Prone/Bench).

I've shot a few vudoo's and they are damn fine rifles no doubt. I don't have a ton of time behind one but a representative sample.
I have heard they're better at distance I just don't know that it's better enough to justify the expense.
I'm currently getting 2.75" 10 shot groups at 200 yds. out of my Fedderson barreled CZ with a couple different lots of ammo.
I really think I'm damn close to the peak of what you can get out of 22LR ammunition, at least in my price bracket

All the above being said, I may still end up with one, because, well, because, uh, two super accurate 22's is better than one!

How can two rifles that shoot the same size groups at 50 yards have one that shoots better at longer ranges? Assuming you're using the same ammo and twist rate. My old brain can't make sense of that!

Eoddave27 said:

I shot a Tikka T1x last season and the first match of this season. My son shoots a CZ457. Both are very capable rifles especially after I rebarreled them. Honestly my V22 will not outshoot my Tikka. It is a draw between the two on precision At 50 yards. One thing I can say is after I’m behind the Vudoo running the bolt for awhile and go to the tikka it almost feels like a toy when I run the bolt. The Vudoo just has a different feel. It’s something you need to experience to understand. Another big difference I have seen with the Vudoo is its accuracy past 100 yards. It is much more consistent at long ranges than any rimfire I have ever shot my Tikka included.

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What kind of barrel did you use on the Tikka?

Tomiboy said:

How can two rifles that shoot the same size groups at 50 yards have one that shoots better at longer ranges? Assuming you're using the same ammo and twist rate. My old brain can't make sense of that!

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Due to the chambering of the rifle, velocity of the ammo and stabilization of the ammo could be different. My T1X factory and my T1X with a Win52D barrel shot about 45fps different with the same ammo.

The groups were very close at 50, and 100, but at 200, the higher velocity shooting chamber had tighter groups.

@Hookturnr, To echo what you said, I remember when Tom and Jeremy were pitching the idea of the a peewee PRS match and were just hoping there would be enough interest in it to justify the effort. I've shot most of the PRC matches they've had up at PNTC, I missed some the 2nd year because of work, but shot all of them last year and placed pretty well with my 10/22. We've only been able to have one PRC match this year but I was pretty happy with where I ended up after that match too. From that first match almost everything on my rifle has been changed or upgraded to make it more capable, the only things that remain are the receiver , trigger pins, and the Green Mountain barrel.

A 1/16" at 50 yards is ⅛" at 100, ¼" at 200, ½" at 400, etc.

It May be hard to discern a difference at 50 but when you extend the distance the difference becomes more obvious.

My favorite .22s

Vudoo


TacSol







MP15-22 Started it all.

Eoddave27 said:

What we were seeing is my rifle would shoot a smaller group at 50 yards than my friends Lilja. A 200 yards however his shot a significantly better group at 200 using the same ammo. Maybe Padom can chime in and give his insight on why this happens.

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There are a number of factors that contribute to a gun's accuracy and a shooter's precision.

On the gun side of things there is ignition, optics quality, stock flex, bedding, headspacing, bore condition, chamber dimensions, etc... The list can go on and on. Then you have ammo quality/consistency.

On the shooter side of things, there are also a number of factors as well, such as... Technique, eye sight, fitness levels, wind reading ability, etc... Again, the list is long.

I think that you gave a big clue in your statement, in that you said "a significantly better group", as in "one" group was shot or compared. Rimfire ammo can't be judged by single groups. Go shoot a whole box over a chronograph and pay attention to POI as it relates to velocity and you'll see what I mean. In your scenario, you might have gotten the more tightly grouped rounds at 50 as far as velocities are concerned, and your friend may have gotten the ammo with tighter velocities when you shot the 200 yd group. To truely judge one rifle/barrel against another, you'd need to eliminate every possible variable and shoot both setups in a controlled environment while using a ransom rest or similar device. You'd also need to put close to a whole box of the same ammo through both setups in order to gain the understanding that your after.

My thought is much in line with @justinamateur that you can only get as accurate as you can get ammunition consistency.
He's done a TON of 50rd. group 200 yd tests on rimfire ammo and found some winners/some losers.

I back checked my ammo choices against his results and then shot a bunch of 10 or 20 round groups at 200 in my gun to find the sweet spot for it. Turns out my results mirror his results almost exactly.

With the ammo consistency issue in mind, that's what gives me pause in switching guns. I am already getting what is mathematically the best accuracy I can expect given the inconsistency of the ammunition I am shooting.

To throw a further wrench in this mix, I test at 200yds almost exclusively. I've found some rounds that shoot better at 50yds than what I currently use but they fall apart at distance. Distance is my game so those rounds stay on the shelf and my 200yd. best performers are what I run.

For example, I tested Eley Edge, Eley Match and Lapua Center X at 50yds, Match was the clear winner, actually the smallest groups the gun had ever shot.
When I took that test to 200yds. Center X performed significantly better, like 1" smaller groups. Maybe it's the lube difference, bullet design, I don't know but some ammo just runs better at distance than others.

There is definitely some VOODOO involved in the rimfire game....no matter what rifle you're shooting!

Eoddave27 said:

When I said “one” that meant one rifle, not one group. We were shooting from the same boxes of ammo and I shot both rifles, shooting about 2 1/2 boxes of ammo. The higher end barrel simply shot better at distance. I can’t explain it and I’ve had plenty of people say that isn’t possible and an equal number of people tell me they have seen the same exact phenomenon. It’s just one of the other mysteries that make 22LR so interesting.

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Another phenomenon that I've noticed is that longer barrels tend to give tighter ES's and SD's than shorter barrels while shooting the same ammo. What's the length of both barrels?

Headspace, if too tight, can cause random "flippers" as well. What's the headspace of both barrels?

DJ swore that 2 and 3 groove barrels bucked wind better than 4 and 6 groove barrels. What's the groove count of both barrels?

Temperature and humidity can affect accuracy due to stocks expanding and contracting or absorbing moisture. Bedding and pillars can help combat these issues. Are both rifles equally bedded? Same stocks? Were 50 yd targets shot under different environmental conditions?

The list goes on and on...

I have spent stupid (for me) amounts of money over the years on rimfires. The way I figure it is that I enjoy the process of shooting regardless of caliber. I also think inaccurate rifles are boring. I can afford to shoot accurate rimfires way more often than accurate centerfires, so I might as well spend whatever it takes to create very accurate rimfires. Even Center X is only $0.20 per round vs. a bare minimum of $1 per round per factory centerfire match ammo on sale. That cost savings easily makes almost any rimfires worth it.

Eoddave27 said:

I bought a Feddersen blank and had a local gunsmith custom fit and chamber it for me for my preferred ammo. It shoots absolutely amazing. I have posted a target before that I shot on my first outing with my Tikka after the new barrel. I had about 100 rounds through it so I had seasoned the barrel a little. It was also a pretty calm day and the lot of ammo I was shooting was very consistent. I can’t post photos for whatever reason right now but I will put the photo of the target as soon as it’s resolved.

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Who did you use locally for rimfire work? Any idea how much the labor cost roughly? I am thinking of replacing my Tikka barrel as well.

Eoddave27 said:

Here is a shot of the target from my rebarreled Tikka at its first outing.


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That is an amazing target. Are those five shot groups?