Rifle Scopes Need Opinions: Low Power Variable

@Cold_Bore_88 this can be a lengthy discussion, do you mind calling us at 916-670-1103 and we'd be happy to go over the Pros and Cons of those LPVO's.

i would add the Burris XTR II 1-8 in that mix

Cold_Bore_88 said:

Will do. Thanks. Will give you a shout tomorrow. Looking for a clear, rugged LPVO. I come from the precision rifle world so reliability and clarity are big.

Max range for this thing would be 300-500.

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This was one of the the hardest descisions i’ve had to make. I need a decent optic for a 10.5 inch for coyote hunting and I think I’m just going to go with a Steiner P4Xi until I get more time behind your listed options.

What’s going to be your intended purpose?

I’m looking for one for predator hunting and shtf defense. Capped turrets. Good glass. NV compatible illuminated reticle. But I can’t help myself wanting a bit more magnification and taking it out to distance.

So far I’m leaning towards the nx 1-8. Let us know what was discussed after a conversation with CS.

Thanks

Given the application, you should consider a March Shorty 1-8x24. I think their regular 1-8x with side focus is a better general purpose scope, but the Shorty is just about perfect for an SBR. Use their optional 6 level illumination module.

In terms of bang for the buck, XTR II 1-8x24 is probably the best on the market right now.

If you prefer SFP, Razor Gen IIE has a lot to recommend itself.

If you want to stay off the beaten path a little, also take a look at Hawke Frontier 1-6x24. I think it has the best reticle I've seen to date on a scope of this type, locking turrets and surprisingly good optical quality. I got a chuckle when a friend if mine who picked one up per my recommendation for a hunting rifle was shocked that the less expensive Frontier walked all over his VX-6 1-6x24.

ILya

Cold_Bore_88 said:

Will do. Thanks. Will give you a shout tomorrow. Looking for a clear, rugged LPVO. I come from the precision rifle world so reliability and clarity are big.

Max range for this thing would be 300-500.

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We are here for you

What shots are you going to take with an 11.5" SBR that need more than 4-5x magnification?

If you don't need a trendy scope with an 8x erector, there are a lot of nice scopes that won't hurt your bank account so much.

Just a heads up, Special Reduced price:
Schmidt & Bender Exos 1-8x24 LM FD7 Reticle Scope #780-811-708 now only $2,300.00 reduced from $3399.99. Please give a call to discuss this great scope

flyer said:

What shots are you going to take with an 11.5" SBR that need more than 4-5x magnification?

If you don't need a trendy scope with an 8x erector, there are a lot of nice scopes that won't hurt your bank account so much.

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This. The NF NXS compact 1-4 will help keep your rifle small and light, can be found for around $1K, and will provide enough mag for 500yd shots.

No affiliation with this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nightforce...70.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.XNightforce+1-4.TRS0

The NXS is very dated technology now. The reticles are not as good, and they are no where near daylight bright. I know, I had one. Right now the market is FLUSH with fantastic LPVs. It’s truly the best it’s ever been. It’s very easy to suffer from “Analysis Paralysis”. The questions are all there: FFP or SFP, what reticle, what power, daylight bright or don’t care. Intended use? Budget..... blah, blah.

For a SFP 1-6, the Razor. It’s a tank, but it works, and the glass is great. Hard to go wrong.
Budget friendly, but top shelf? The NF NX8. It’s FFP, 17oz, super svelt size and weight. More than daytime bright. Etc, etc. it’s all out bad a$$.
Money isn’t a huge factor? All day the ATACR 1-8. It’s a 34mm tube so it’s brighter and more “open” like the Razor. It’s a FFP, great reticle, daylight bright. Tough as nails, everything good and still only 21oz.

Somewhere in the middle you have the Burris XTRII 1-8 and the Primary Arms Platinum. These two are pretty much the same scope, just branded different. Made in the same plant, both FFP. Glass is very solid. Priced the same. Big, I mean HUGE advantage to the Primary is the ACSS reticle. It’s intelligent, and WORKS well out to the limits of the cartridge. If it’s your thing is up to you.

The market is busting at the seams. Sit down, search the site, there’s a crap ton of info here.

The Minox 1-8 with MR10+ reticle is the best 1-anything I've ever owned, the only downside was that it was a little heavier than I wanted. Did everything I wanted a short range optic and has amazing glass. Talk to Mike at CS Tactical if you haven't already and I'm sure he will steer you in the right direction.

Application will help with recommendations. Were it me, I'd grab something else for 500 yard shots.

To that end, the Vortex Gen2 1-6 is awesome, I have one on a 300WTF and really like it, but it is heavy as balls and will throw the balance off a shortly.

My 10.5 wears an Aimpoint and I never feel under-optic-ed...if that is a term. I can easily make confident hits out to 300, and beyond that it is a break-contact weapon anyway.

And there is always much to be said for iron sights, they no longer get the respect they deserve.

I disagree that the NXS 1-4 is outdated tech. The FC3G is damn near identical to the JM reticle in the razor 1-6 and is perfectly useable w/o illum. My favorite LPV by far is the Mk61-6 cmr-w5.56. Locking turrets, incredible reticle, great glass.

That being said I'd probably trade it straight up for a NXS 1-8 if the damn things had caps on em.

hypno02 said:

I disagree that the NXS 1-4 is outdated tech. The FC3G is damn near identical to the JM reticle in the razor 1-6 and is perfectly useable w/o illum. My favorite LPV by far is the Mk61-6 cmr-w5.56. Locking turrets, incredible reticle, great glass.

That being said I'd probably trade it straight up for a NXS 1-8 if the damn things had caps on em.

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Mine does. ??

VegasHKShooter said:

The NXS is very dated technology now. The reticles are not as good, and they are no where near daylight bright. I know, I had one. Right now the market is FLUSH with fantastic LPVs. It’s truly the best it’s ever been. It’s very easy to suffer from “Analysis Paralysis”. The questions are all there: FFP or SFP, what reticle, what power, daylight bright or don’t care. Intended use? Budget..... blah, blah.

For a SFP 1-6, the Razor. It’s a tank, but it works, and the glass is great. Hard to go wrong.
Budget friendly, but top shelf? The NF NX8. It’s FFP, 17oz, super svelt size and weight. More than daytime bright. Etc, etc. it’s all out bad a$$.
Money isn’t a huge factor? All day the ATACR 1-8. It’s a 34mm tube so it’s brighter and more “open” like the Razor. It’s a FFP, great reticle, daylight bright. Tough as nails, everything good and still only 21oz.

Somewhere in the middle you have the Burris XTRII 1-8 and the Primary Arms Platinum. These two are pretty much the same scope, just branded different. Made in the same plant, both FFP. Glass is very solid. Priced the same. Big, I mean HUGE advantage to the Primary is the ACSS reticle. It’s intelligent, and WORKS well out to the limits of the cartridge. If it’s your thing is up to you.

The market is busting at the seams. Sit down, search the site, there’s a crap ton of info here.

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I am not sure I am on board with ACSS reticle being particulalry superior to the one in XTR II for the 1-8x. Or superior at all. To be honest, with PA, I really prefer their advanced MIL reticle to the ACSS and they had a new mrad based reticle at SHOT that I liked even more.
One things I do not like about PA's reticles in the 1-8x Platinum is a 20 mrad out circle. I think that the 10 mrad circle in the XTR II is just about right when I am trying to use it quickly on 1x.

On 8x, I am not sure I need that small internal horseshoe either.

With Burris, I would much rather have had a small mrad tree or a simple mrad scale, like in the PA MIL reticle. The 10 mrad circle is a good idea though.

ILya

VegasHKShooter said:

The NXS is very dated technology now. The reticles are not as good, and they are no where near daylight bright.

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Of course, when something new comes out everything that preceded it is immediately junk lol. Reticles are entirely subjective -- I happen to love several of the reticles that were available -- and the two that I own are more than daylight bright on the brightest setting -- not that I use the illumination unless it's dusk.

When making a purchase, you discount candidates simply because they aren't "the latest greatest" at your own peril.

Ok..... let me break it down: the NXS IS dated. It’s SFP, it’s NOT daylight bright under sunny, desert conditions, it’s a 1-4. There is no way you can compare it to the newer offerings out there. I had one. I shot it. It’s dated by any measure now. I didn’t say it was a bad optic. I didn’t say it was junk. But to compare it to the NX8 is silly. The NX8 is smaller, double the magnification, FFP, daylight bright in August, in the desert, at noon!! It is better in every measurable way.
If you have the NXS and love it.... rock on man, I’m not trying to change your mind. But to tell a guy that the NXS 1-4 is even in the same league as the newer NX8 and ATACR is dead wrong. That’s bad info, and he should know it.

Koshkin, I understand if you don’t like the ACSS. Reticles are, more than maybe most things in the gun world, VERY subjective. Usually I run a mil scope, some variation of it anyway. For me, I can see the application of the ACSS. I have one, and for it’s role on that gun, it works. Very personal though. I wouldn’t try to claim it is right for everyone.

1. They are the same size and weight as listed on NF website.
2. I live at 8000ft, high desert, CO. It doesn't get sunnier. Not that I use it, but the illuminated part of the reticle is visible at noon. Maybe you got a lemon.
3. It is SFP, I'll give you that -- is that really an issue with a LPO? I understand that everyone is on the FFP bandwagon these days and with an optic with a giant mag range that tops out in the teens or higher, yeah it's the bee's knees.

My point is that for an SBR in any caliber it is a great option for $700-800 less than the NX8, that's good info, and he should know it.

Daylight bright is the most retarded term of all time when discussing LPVO's.

Almost all illuminated LPVO's are daylight bright. Very few are "Aimpoint Bright."

Ok so how exactly do you classify a FFP optic at 1x that you can't see at full illumination on a bright sunny day, let alone just trying to pickup the reticle when it's off? All illuminated LPVO's are not created equal or even close for that matter when speed and bright sunny days are your enemy.

hypno02 said:

Daylight bright is the most retarded term of all time when discussing LPVO's.

Almost all illuminated LPVO's are daylight bright. Very few are "Aimpoint Bright."

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Yeah dude I get that but if your reticle does not get aimpoint bright then why on earth would you intentionally lessen the amount of contrast between your [black] reticle and your very sunny/bright surroundings by turning on illumination that simply changes the tint/shade of the reticle? Aimpoint bright illumination can overcome this through sheer dot brightness. (razor 1-6, mk6, nx8, etc) My NXS 1-4 cannot, nor my old mk4 1.5-5, nor could the 1-6 vudu I used to own.

You wouldn't unless someone was trying to impress their tacticool friends with their colored reticle. It was the dissension for the term "daylight bright" that I was not getting. If I can't pick up the reticle fast enough in the daylight before that paper target kills me then it isn't daylight bright, if I can then it is. Sounds like a simple argument of semantics, which is sort of amusing given the phrase under your user name.

VegasHKShooter said:

Ok..... let me break it down: the NXS IS dated. It’s SFP, it’s NOT daylight bright under sunny, desert conditions, it’s a 1-4. There is no way you can compare it to the newer offerings out there. I had one. I shot it. It’s dated by any measure now. I didn’t say it was a bad optic. I didn’t say it was junk. But to compare it to the NX8 is silly. The NX8 is smaller, double the magnification, FFP, daylight bright in August, in the desert, at noon!! It is better in every measurable way.
If you have the NXS and love it.... rock on man, I’m not trying to change your mind. But to tell a guy that the NXS 1-4 is even in the same league as the newer NX8 and ATACR is dead wrong. That’s bad info, and he should know it.

Koshkin, I understand if you don’t like the ACSS. Reticles are, more than maybe most things in the gun world, VERY subjective. Usually I run a mil scope, some variation of it anyway. For me, I can see the application of the ACSS. I have one, and for it’s role on that gun, it works. Very personal though. I wouldn’t try to claim it is right for everyone.

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How does the NX8 compare on 1x to the NXS 1-4, optically? Forget illumination and reticle and 2FP/FFP. I mean fisheye, tunneling, flatness, TRUE UNITY, etc?

nick338 said:

You wouldn't unless someone was trying to impress their tacticool friends with their colored reticle. It was the dissension for the term "daylight bright" that I was not getting. If I can't pick up the reticle fast enough in the daylight before that paper target kills me then it isn't daylight bright, if I can then it is. Sounds like a simple argument of semantics, which is sort of amusing given the phrase under your user name.

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Right we're on the same page. It's all how that particular term is translated. Said translations have made many people buy vortex strikefire's expecting a nuclear hot red dot on 1x.

JWG said:

How does the NX8 compare on 1x to the NXS 1-4, optically? Forget illumination and reticle and 2FP/FFP. I mean fisheye, tunneling, flatness, TRUE UNITY, etc?

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Both are pretty well corrected. NX8 looks a little better to me in terms of distortion and seems to have slightly wider FOV.

ILya

I ran a 1-4 NF for many years. No illum needed, unless I went indoors. I still run a 2.5-10, and I use it the same way.

The NX8 is awesome, and nothing comes close for the weight, but for my use, the 2.5-10 is better.

If you are willing to look at a Vortex weight optic, then the only real choice is the ATACR 1-8. Spectacular.

On an SBR, I would never run anything but an aimpoint and magnifier, or an NX8. Or just an aimpoint for that matter.

Having said all that, where does the SWFA 1-6 HD fall?

My vote would be for one of the Nightforce, hard to beat their ruggedness--one of OP's criteria. Otherwise from 300-500yd range , another criteria, I'd opt more for the ATACR for better glass, larger tube diameter, and Christmas tree style reticle.
I personally picked up an NX8 from CS Tactical because I primarily wanted as light as I could get for runnin & gunnin. I ridiculously love this scope! Love brightness of the reticle, it's OD, it's weight, field of view, price point, and surprised at its glass clarity even though origins are NXS glass. My only complaint is wishing for locking elevation turret, yes it has zero stop but would prefer "zero lock"
@ OP ...for me if I was looking to equip an SBR, it would be a no brainier--NX8

NX8 on 11.5 SBR. Nuclear bright red dot, 17oz, very near to 1x, NF construction, 8x magnification, capped turrets, mil reticle. Great.

SLG said:

I ran a 1-4 NF for many years. No illum needed, unless I went indoors. I still run a 2.5-10, and I use it the same way.

The NX8 is awesome, and nothing comes close for the weight, but for my use, the 2.5-10 is better.

If you are willing to look at a Vortex weight optic, then the only real choice is the ATACR 1-8. Spectacular.

On an SBR, I would never run anything but an aimpoint and magnifier, or an NX8. Or just an aimpoint for that matter.

Having said all that, where does the SWFA 1-6 HD fall?

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I like the SWFA 1-6x24 HD quite a lot. It is exceedingly durable and has a very usable reticle. Nothing fancy with the reticle, but it works well across a range of magnifications with or without illumination.

It is from a previous gen of LOW's low power scopes, so the FOV is a little narrower on 1x and there is a touch more distortion than on the newer designs.

As far as the ATACR being the only choice goes, I think that is a bit too dramatic of a statement. I am far more impressed with NX8 given the price. Once you get into the ATACR price range, that is an entirely different level of competition, the most prominent one being the Minox ZP8. While I like the 1-8x ATACR, I am not at all sure I would take it over the ZP8 or, for that matter, the S&B 1-8x24 Short Dot. CQBSS is probably in that group too, but I think Minox, S&B and ATACR are a little better at low power. All three are interesting designs and the choice between them is not so simple.

ILya

koshkin said:

I like the SWFA 1-6x24 HD quite a lot. It is exceedingly durable and has a very usable reticle. Nothing fancy with the reticle, but it works well across a range of magnifications with or without illumination.

It is from a previous gen of LOW's low power scopes, so the FOV is a little narrower on 1x and there is a touch more distortion than on the newer designs.

As far as the ATACR being the only choice goes, I think that is a bit too dramatic of a statement. I am far more impressed with NX8 given the price. Once you get into the ATACR price range, that is an entirely different level of competition, the most prominent one being the Minox ZP8. While I like the 1-8x ATACR, I am not at all sure I would take it over the ZP8 or, for that matter, the S&B 1-8x24 Short Dot. CQBSS is probably in that group too, but I think Minox, S&B and ATACR are a little better at low power. All three are interesting designs and the choice between them is not so simple.

ILya

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Good to know about the SWFA, thanks.

I think I've said it before, but I'm a NF snob. Fully biased. Happy to be so.

For the OP, the SWFA will be much less money, and may be worth looking at. Also, I have a Trijicon 1-8. Good, but heavy and not a standout, imo.

I still would go light weight on an SBR, but that's me. weight itself is fairly meaningless, but as someone else mentioned above, the heavy optics really mess with the balance of an sbr. Vortex sent me a 1-6 when they first came out and I put it on a lightweight noveske 6.8 and went wolf hunting. It totally ruined the speed and handling, and made it very top heavy. Its a nice scope, but my sbr is nimble and fast, and will stay that way.

I live in CA, so I can't have an SBR, but until recently I could have an AR pistol (can't anymore so I had to take it out of state in disassembled form). I tried a bunch of different optics on that Blackout pistol and I agree with the weight argument.

It worked really well with Shield SIS for all the closer distance stuff.

Vortex UH-1 with a magnifier was pretty good too, but weighed about as much together as a decent low range variable.

Weirdly, I thought that fixed power prism sight worked well with a piggybacked red dot (like the Elcan Specter OS 4x I have). It is also not light, but it is short, so the weight is further back and the balance is not disturbed as much.

I didn't get a chance to try a compact ACOG on that gun, but I wonder if something like the tiny 1.5x16 would be a good option.

ILya

We ran the compact acogs during the early days of the Afghan war. Meh. I swapped to an aimpoint as soon as possible. They really can be like looking through a soda straw. On top of that, the turrets always needed help to understand that a change was being made, and that we wanted that change to stick. The biggest 3.5 versions were fairly usable, but then we're back to the bulk and weight of good lpv.

I only have one carry handle AR, and it wears a Colt 3 or 4X scope, for fun. If I ever pick up another carry handle, I'll throw an acog on it, purely for looks.

Rancid Coolaid said:

Application will help with recommendations. Were it me, I'd grab something else for 500 yard shots.

To that end, the Vortex Gen2 1-6 is awesome, I have one on a 300WTF and really like it, but it is heavy as balls and will throw the balance off a shortly.

My 10.5 wears an Aimpoint and I never feel under-optic-ed...if that is a term. I can easily make confident hits out to 300, and beyond that it is a break-contact weapon anyway.

And there is always much to be said for iron sights, they no longer get the respect they deserve.

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Easily make hits on WHAT at 300 yards? A white IPSC 2/3 target in the sun? People confuse square range with killing things when it comes to this topic, I've found. Whether you're hunting deer, rabbits, coyote, or people, 300 yard shots with an AP is a losing game. Magnification is worth the weight. How much, seems to be the question regarding the choices available.

If the OP said somewhere this was for hunting use, yes, I agree, magnification is needed.
My comment was geared more to a 2-way range scenario.

Squibbler said:

My vote would be for one of the Nightforce, hard to beat their ruggedness--one of OP's criteria. Otherwise from 300-500yd range , another criteria, I'd opt more for the ATACR for better glass, larger tube diameter, and Christmas tree style reticle.
I personally picked up an NX8 from CS Tactical because I primarily wanted as light as I could get for runnin & gunnin. I ridiculously love this scope! Love brightness of the reticle, it's OD, it's weight, field of view, price point, and surprised at its glass clarity even though origins are NXS glass. My only complaint is wishing for locking elevation turret, yes it has zero stop but would prefer "zero lock"
@ OP ...for me if I was looking to equip an SBR, it would be a no brainier--NX8

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Thank you for your business, please let me know if I can assist in the future

SLG said:

We ran the compact acogs during the early days of the Afghan war. Meh. I swapped to an aimpoint as soon as possible. They really can be like looking through a soda straw. On top of that, the turrets always needed help to understand that a change was being made, and that we wanted that change to stick. The biggest 3.5 versions were fairly usable, but then we're back to the bulk and weight of good lpv.

I only have one carry handle AR, and it wears a Colt 3 or 4X scope, for fun. If I ever pick up another carry handle, I'll throw an acog on it, purely for looks.

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The only Compact ACOG I have spent any serious time with was the 3x24 and I did not like it too much. Last year I briefly looked at the 1.5x16S and thought they had potential.

I wonder if there is a market for a truly lightweight low range variable with a moderate erector ratio and a good illuminated reticle. Going to a higher erector ration brings extra capability, but also extra complexity and weight.

I wonder if I can convince someone to make a 10 ounce 1-3x scope with truly world class optical quality and illuminated reticle. Something like a modernized version of Weaver V3.

The closest modern equivalent is probably a 14 ounce Leupold's VX-5HD 1-5x24, but I do not think I will be able to convince anyone to take a risk with 3x on the top end. I bet they could make a truly modern 1-3x20 that weighs 10 ounces with covered turrets and is less than 7 inches long. I wonder is I can convince March to make an even shorter and lighter version of their Shorty scope with lower magnification.

ILya

^I would probably buy several of those.

Mooncake said:

^I would probably buy several of those.

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So would I, but the two of us do not make a very large market.

ILya

I'll take one, just to push the likes of Nightforce or SWFA over that line.

koshkin said:

So would I, but the two of us do not make a very large market.

ILya

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I have to think it would be a winner in a lot of eyes (unintended pun). Especially if it could be mounted with a single base mount like an aimpoint to keep the weight down. Scalarworks or somebody could produce a mount that weighs a couple oz. A 1-3x LPVO with high end glass that, mounted, weighs only a little over twice what a micro weighs? I think warfighters would eat that up and rec shooters would follow suit.

Mooncake said:

I have to think it would be a winner in a lot of eyes (unintended pun). Especially if it could be mounted with a single base mount like an aimpoint to keep the weight down. Scalarworks or somebody could produce a mount that weighs a couple oz. A 1-3x LPVO with high end glass that, mounted, weighs only a little over twice what a micro weighs? I think warfighters would eat that up and rec shooters would follow suit.

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Why bother? Make it use a keyed T1/T2 mount. At that weight it will be fine. If not, a Comp M4 mount. Everyone already makes one. Just supply a spacer with the optic that will allow 1.44, 1.50, 1.93, 2.04 heights above rail to optic centerline, and everyone (nearly) should be happy.

I think the idea is appealing, but other than a small weight savings, I think an aimpoint with a 3X magnifier behind it is a better way to go for any kind of tactical use.

SLG said:

I think the idea is appealing, but other than a small weight savings, I think an aimpoint with a 3X magnifier behind it is a better way to go for any kind of tactical use.

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I think eventually a 1-3 or 1-4 will be engineered:
- Absolute true 1x with nuclear bright red dot in a solid bdc reticle with simple wind holds
- Massive eyebox. Like bigger than an accupoint massive.
- 4in+ eye relief with massive FOV. Like Kahles FOV.
- Razor or maybe even ATACR glass.
- Capped lo-pro turrets
- Illumination dial like the razor.
- Either single ring mounted or utilize an existing platform like micro or Comp series as mentioned above.
- Integrated fin for mag.
- NF/ACOG construction
- 10oz.

Would make red dots obsolete.

EDIT: It was late. Meant a BDC- like in a TA33.

Newbiesupremo said:

I think eventually a 1-3 or 1-4 will be engineered:
- Absolute true 1x with nuclear bright red dot in a solid mil reticle with simple wind holds
- Massive eyebox. Like bigger than an accupoint massive.
- 4in+ eye relief with massive FOV. Like Kahles FOV.
- Razor or maybe even ATACR glass.
- Capped lo-pro turrets
- Illumination dial like the razor.
- Either single ring mounted or utilize an existing platform like micro or Comp series as mentioned above.
- Integrated fin for mag.
- NF/ACOG construction
- 10oz.

Would make red dots obsolete.

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How exactly do you propose to manufacture a usable 3x mil reticle?

For those talking about weight, the razor e is 21 oz, essentially the same as the atacr and other options listed.

If you want speed onto the target the razor is faster and more forgiving than the atacr. Atacr is nice, but bdc’s are underrated in combat guns, dmr and sniper rifles notwithstanding

Qazwsx said:

For those talking about weight, the razor e is 21 oz, essentially the same as the atacr and other options listed.

If you want speed onto the target the razor is faster and more forgiving than the atacr. Atacr is nice, but bdc’s are underrated in combat guns, dmr and sniper rifles notwithstanding

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I agree about BDC's. I find them much quicker and easier to use than mils in an LPV. All the shooting I do inside the 600 yard mark with these types of scopes favors the BDC for me. My first Razor 1-6 was a mil reticle, and I switched and got it in the Gen II with a JM BDC reticle.

I find that if I need more precision than that with less speed for target transitions, I just turn the turret like I would any other precision optic.

Take a look at the Kahles K16i. True 1x with superb illumination, great reticle and glass, fast target acquisition with generous eye box (like a red dot), only weighs 16.9 oz. It's not a shorty, but is 10.9" long. It's SFP but never bothered me as I use it only at 1x or 6x. Should be able to find one new around $1900.

Do not shoot me, guys, but I picked up Nikon Monarch 3 , 1-4 x20, with German #4 reticle (classy 3 post pattern) for my 18" long barrel custom MN, and can not be happier... I mean, it works fine up to 250 yards, and it is stupidly durable and does not behave strange.