Got my new Rifles Inc from Desert Precision Gunworks 6mmARC the first three shots point3 eighths of an inch the group 2nd group I’ll show you as the 10 rounds of 108
grain where are the others was 105
grain where are the others was 105
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I’m curious why people choose 6mm ARC in a bolt gun vs something like a 6CM or 6BR, just fun? Seems like it was designed around an AR-15 action and that in a bolt gun it doesn’t have as many advantages.
factory ammo for one
and to be fair what are its disadvantages over a 6br?
and to be fair what are its disadvantages over a 6br?
Totally fair, I have no experience with 6s (though I am definitely contemplating building a 6ARC upper) so I was just curious.
The advantage of factory ammo along with cross compatibility with AR15 chambering is interesting. The 6ARC also seems to have a fairly good envelope of applicable barrel lengths, especially in gas/ar15 guns. It’s the newest attempt at the ‘everything’ cartridge, with good enough umph for a lot of applications, and a bit more applicable in the real world than the 224V. But in the end, for a lot of target shooting, are distances available to most people, it works well enough. Well enough usually wins in the long run.
1. Easy round to load for. It's in the low/intermediate range for 6mm rounds and working up loads is really easy. This has been the consensus among 6 GR and 6 LBC shooters, so there's plenty of similar data to the 6 ARC.
2. Powder consolidation. I shoot and reload .223 and .308, and the Varget, RL-15, CFE223, and other common powders for those cartridges work well in 6 GR, 6 LBC, and 6 ARC loads.
3. Powder consumption. Burning ~30 gr. of lots of different powders versus ~40-42 gr of H4350. Assuming a max load, a pound of powder will yield ~ 167 rounds. That same max charge will yield ~233 round of 6 ARC. It's cheaper to shoot more.
4. Efficiency. That little 6 ARC can propel bullets in the 90 - 108 range very well without a huge consumption of powder.
5. (This is really the one that does it for me.) It makes for an easy cartridge to introduce little ones to hunting and long range shooting principles. It's small and tame enough that a smaller kid can start mastering the fundamentals with a centerfire cartridge capable of taking game up to deer and antelope size.
6. I just like bolt guns. They're a lot of fun. Don't really have anything against the AR except for the slight decrease in velocity and action pressure.
In a bolt gun? Lack of quality factory brass is a big one.
There are no factory offerings from Lapua, Norma, Peterson, etc. for 6mm ARC brass.
The BR is also easier to tune, partly because of the quality and uniformity of the available brass, and partly because of cartridge design. The BR really is just incredibly easy to load for. And it has about a 10-12% advantage in case capacity over the ARC, allowing it to be pushed up into the 2800 fps node that a lot of guys find works well for bullets like the 105 Hybrid. Hornady does say you can get there in an ARC bolt gun with something like LEVER, but not with the super consistent and temp stable extruded powders the BR likes (such as Varget).
There are also a ton of options for 6mm BR chambers, allowing you to essentially build a barrel around the bullet of your choice. The ARC currently has one option, the SAAMI chamber that's optimized for Hornady's 108 ELD.
Other than that, you're essentially back to the old 6mm PPC vs 6mm BR argument (where the BR wins at 300yds and beyond), except again without an option for high quality brass. There are at least some high quality options for PPC cases.
And yes I realize you can make ARC brass from something like Lapua Grendel cases. But if the argument for the ARC is "factory ammo" certainly having to treat it like a wildcat to get quality brass counts as a mark against it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trashing the ARC. I have a 6mm ARC AR built on a Proof barrel and I love it, but the cartridge is really nothing special when you remove the requirement to fit inside of an AR15 magazine/receiver.
And factory BR ammo is available, from Lapua, for about $2 per round. That's compared to what, $1.65 per round for 6mm ARC Match from Hornady?
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Some people drink beer and others drink whiskey. Some like steak and others like seafood.
i find these types of threads more then a whee bit entertaining. golden ox gets gored cuz a guys doesn't build a 6br for a fun gun.
read what u wrote. it's actually comical. high school never ends.
6arc.. open a box. load magazine. make hits.
6br.. open spam can full of factory 105 scenar.. load mag. make hits
whole whopping 65fps difference. same price for ammo. both in the 3/4" ten shots at 100. ES on both isn't that great:
honestly the guy running the ammo plant at hornady is better then the guy making 108's 6br
read what u wrote. it's actually comical. high school never ends.
6arc.. open a box. load magazine. make hits.
6br.. open spam can full of factory 105 scenar.. load mag. make hits
whole whopping 65fps difference. same price for ammo. both in the 3/4" ten shots at 100. ES on both isn't that great:
honestly the guy running the ammo plant at hornady is better then the guy making 108's 6br
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Kenny just finished a build for a buddy of mine on an Origin with Grayboe stock. It shoots damn good out to 800. I was thinking of building one and found a 6 creed barrel instead.
The issue I found with 6ARC is that the Hornady KoolAid likes to get people to believe the 105-108 gr bullets are optimal in the cartridge and they don't appear to be. I drank the KoolAid and gave up on the 105s recently because of the speed. Granted I'm using it in a gasser but switching to 95s got me running comparably with 6BRs and even a 6GT recently in the wind inside 1k. There are many, many much more experienced shooters here who I'm sure can shoot the difference but it was close enough to surprise me.
Thee 105s and 108s just cant get enough steam to run with the BRs in the 6ARC...and that's exactly the factory ammunition they are selling. Makes no sense to me.
Thee 105s and 108s just cant get enough steam to run with the BRs in the 6ARC...and that's exactly the factory ammunition they are selling. Makes no sense to me.
Ordered a 6mm ARC bolt gun a couple of months ago. It will have a 26-inch barrel. Delivery should be 12 weeks.
I just wrote a rather scathing response to what you wrote above, then deleted it. I'm better than that. So, I'll keep it short and sweet....
Do you think that I would even for a second consider making not just this one choice, but any other choices, from something like what you just wrote?
Sheesh!
I have both an AR and a bolt gun in 6.5 Grendel. I purchased the bolt gun in that chambering for three reasons which are essentially the same as the reasons the op stated above.
Adam
- Already had lots of powder, Lapua brass, projectiles, etc.
- I have a 10 year old son that is getting in to hunting and the low recoil makes practice fun instead of scary for him (killed his first buck three weeks ago)
- 99% of the shooting I do is at 400 yards or less
Adam
There is always going to be a better cartridge and/or bullet. I was really interested in playing around with what could be the lightest “1000y rifle” with a Howa mini action (in 6.5G right now), but I hit a snag when the mini action bottom isn’t wide enough to accept an AR15 mag. To me, having one round would be cool, to have the same mags work in bolt and gas gun…. Really cool.
I agree. The 6 ARC really seems to be at home with the 90-95 gr. bullets.
I'd like to try out a 95 TMK out of a Howa mini action when they start making one in a 6 ARC and I see an upper in my future as well.
Now that looks like fun
I get about 2890 with 95 VLD Bergers and am happy with it. They do slow down a bunch around 8-900 though, but nowhere near as bad as 105s. I could probably get a little more but I don't want to push my luck as I've found no published data for N140 with 95s. It's accurate enough for my uses and the brass and rifle don't complain.
barrel maker?
searching that set of words gets some pretty funny news headlines.
alex baldwin doesn't know how a gun works.
alex baldwin doesn't know how a gun works.
@reubenski You'll be happy to hear that I have a 30" 6.5mm Blank on order and have a .205" freebore 6.5 Grendel reamer in hand to run 150-153gr bullets at hopefully 2400+ fps in a 6.5 Grendel.
Obviously superior to 6.5x47.
Obviously superior to 6.5x47.
I like the idea of 6mm ARC to get modern features in a small action size with a forever barrel life. I don't think anyone expects it to outperform the rounds that burn a barrel out in ~1400 rounds.
It looks like your 22 Grendel load uses one of the three unicorn, temp sensitive powders that all give similar top velocities in the ARC. With a little load workup in my 21" AR, I've found decent loads at ~ 2,820 fps for 95gr SSTs, ~2,970 fps for 85gr SGKs, and my 105gr loads match 108gr factory at right around 2,700 fps out of my rifle. Not super speedy, but "slow as fuck" is a stretch. All of those use LVR since I was able to pick up a jug pretty easily, but LVR and CFE are about as close as you can get while still being different. AA2520 is right there with them velocity wise according to Hodgdon data.
It was designed for the small frame AR. I was actually just having this conversation with a guy at the range while I was shooting my ARC gasser. If I wanted small bolt gun I’d go 6BR or one of the variants. Way better barrel life than CM. But, if you just wanted a fun project…
The recoil impulse is very nice. I was able to stay on target and watch the bullet path and impact. I am now starting to work on the load data using a Berger 105 hunter bullet and 108. May look at some lighter ones as well.
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