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Obscure / Unknown U.S. History

MK20

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Minuteman
  • Apr 17, 2018
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    The land of many waters
    A general repository for all those fun / weird stories that every history teacher somehow managed to avoid telling you.
    Anything American History related is fair game.

    Please include links for further reading when possible.

    I will start off with this one.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident

    Japanese pilot crashes his plane on a small Hawaiian island after Pearl Harbor. He terrorizes the residents for a while until they bash his head in with a rock and slit his throat.
    I have seen the remains of his plane. They actually preserved them pretty well and have them on display at Pearl Harbor.
     
    A general repository for all those fun / weird stories that every history teacher somehow managed to avoid telling you.
    Anything American History related is fair game.

    Please include links for further reading when possible.

    I will start off with this one.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident

    Japanese pilot crashes his plane on a small Hawaiian island after Pearl Harbor. He terrorizes the residents for a while until they bash his head in with a rock and slit his throat.
    I have seen the remains of his plane. They actually preserved them pretty well and have them on display at Pearl Harbor.


    Interesting bit of history.

    The speed at which The Japanese assisted the pilot and turned on the Hawaiians was used as evidence the Japanese couldn’t be trusted as to their loyalty to the USA.. hence the government policy of internment camps for Japanese Americans
     
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    Interesting bit of history.

    The speed at which The Japanese assisted the pilot and turned on the Hawaiians was used as evidence the Japanese couldn’t be trusted as to their loyalty to the USA.. hence the government policy of internment camps for Japanese Americans

    Exactly.

    The fact that is conveniently forgotten when America is promoted as racist and redneck anytime internment is brought up.

    As conveniently forgotten as which political party stripped those Americans of their private property and freedom.
     
    The Feinian Raids. Irish-American Civil War veterans make several attempts to invade Canadian territory in an effort to force Britain to divert resources from Ireland.

    My great-great-great grandfather served in the Canadian militia which repelled one of the invasions; I have never figured out which one, other than it was on the early side. I have a shadow box containing the private fowling piece he carried in the militia, along with the belt from his uniform displaying the British crown.
     
    Before hostilities with Germany in WWII FDR gave orders to US destroyers that allowed them to basically sink any U boat in the western Atlantic in sight. No link but if interested pick up Churchill’s 6 volume set on WWII. Very interesting read.
     
    @Dirty D, the bombing of black Wall Street as it was called is very interesting and tragic. Before the Dems got ahold of the black population they were significantly outperforming whites in almost every way. Success in the face of oppression breeds jealousy and hate I guess.
     
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    An extremely interesting one is the Battle of Athens. Basically a bunch of WWII vets come home to Athens, TN to find the local sheriff ticketing everyone he can find in order to make more money. He is also rigging elections to keep himself and his friends in power.
    What the vets do is absolutely amazing and a good thing to remember.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)
     
    Exactly.

    The fact that is conveniently forgotten when America is promoted as racist and redneck anytime internment is brought up.

    As conveniently forgotten as which political party stripped those Americans of their private property and freedom.

    While I agree that we should honestly look at history, I grew up around these Japanese folks and the VAST majority of them are extremely patriotic. I lived among the 442 RCT vets and the ones that were lucky enough to come home often left blood and body parts as well as friends over in Europe.
    Many also unwillingly brought home various pieces of German or Italian ordnance and trip the metal detectors when they fly.
    Their loyalty to America was exceptional.
    The rationale cited above is like saying that since Buddly is an idiot all of snipershide should be committed to an asylum.
    No offense meant by all this. Just making sure we are on the same page.
     
    While I agree that we should honestly look at history, I grew up around these Japanese folks and the VAST majority of them are extremely patriotic. I lived among the 442 RCT vets and the ones that were lucky enough to come home often left blood and body parts as well as friends over in Europe.
    Many also unwillingly brought home various pieces of German or Italian ordnance and trip the metal detectors when they fly.
    Their loyalty to America was exceptional.
    The rationale cited above is like saying that since Buddly is an idiot all of snipershide should be committed to an asylum.
    No offense meant by all this. Just making sure we are on the same page.

    442 RCT was the most highly decorated unit in WWII and considering the bias against them that says something.

    I think what happened to those Americans (no hyphen) was a crime and they were never made whole.

    Its an example of exactly why when someone says "we live in a democracy" they should be corrected and told "no we live in a Republic".

    Internment, gun confiscation, trampling rights is what occurs in a democracy when the majority "by feeling" rather than in the rule of law decides to fuck a minority.

    Still though Niiahu is important as it shows people didnt just pull their phobias out of their ass.

    There was a solid example of what they feared at a moment America was at its lowest.

    It didnt justify internment but it helps to understand the equation that arrived at internment as an answer.

    The event shouldnt have been buried.

    And I have two thoughts on why it was buried.

    1. The govt didnt want to give anyone with sympathies for IJ any ideas.

    2. The govt feared vigilante hysteria and hoped to protect the Americans that just happened to have ancestors from across the Pacific.

    The end result was govt saying "Im here to help" and fucking it up.
     
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_violence
    This is as close as I could find referencing the Mormons attacking settlers for wares and plunder . It was so bad that had WW1 not happened Pershing was to have taken a large force to route out the Mormons . The Federal government had groqn tired of their shit . From the Mormon War to the infighting to the attacks on settlers headed to California Washington wanted them gone . Funny they did not choose side in the Civil War and many refused to fight in the coming World Wars but they had no problem killing any other time .
     
    An extremely interesting one is the Battle of Athens. Basically a bunch of WWII vets come home to Athens, TN to find the local sheriff ticketing everyone he can find in order to make more money. He is also rigging elections to keep himself and his friends in power.
    What the vets do is absolutely amazing and a good thing to remember.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

    worth repeating. The post, and......
     
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    Johnson County Wars in Wyoming.

    The Wiki link leaves out many details.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banditti_of_the_Plains

    I summed up the high points but more than this even happened.

    The text is free to read online and read like a novel. I couldn’t put it down.

    Full text.

    https://archive.org/stream/banditsoftheplai000007mbp/banditsoftheplai000007mbp_djvu.txt

    Late 1890’s The western cattle heards were in full swing. Everyone was making money, big money, some legally, some not so legally....
    The full story may be tough to really figure out the motivation to what actually happened. But... if you just follow the money......

    European investors dumped big money into western banks who were invested in the cattle. Heards were fat, payrolls were fat, local elections were bought and paid for by the profits. Then ranchers, local elected officials and company men got greedy and wanted heards of their own... so during the mild springs during calving season, ranch hands and local bankers started to skim profits by stealing from the company heards, cattle, they would steal cattle and start their own heards and write off the losses on the investments of the big companies. This was extremely successful as even with the skimming, the big companies still making money.

    Then a hard winter hit that killed off lots of cattle. And profits took a nosedive... it was so bad that the investors in Europe sent over their own auditors to count the heards third party. When the head counts came up short, the local company men and ranch hands were not about to admit to the skimming, they hatched a plan to blame the missing cattle on a scapegoat.... the western private family/sheep hearders. The ranch hands and company men hated the settlers because they put up fence on the open prairie to delineate private property too keep the sheep from wandering off, the cattle men would use open range style grazing by pushing heards far north and slowly bring them south into late summer and fall as it got colder. But this doesn’t work with settlers and their fences. The criminals look at getting two birds with one stone, they are going to tell the investors that it’s the sheep hearders who are stealing the cows.

    So, the local big bank owners and company men double down on blaming the losses on the settlers so they decided it’s time to run them off to avoid taking blame for the theft and to get rid of the fences.

    The bankers and local southern Wyoming elected officials, literally ask around for local people to form a posse and go run off ranchers from their own land by any means possible, even if it means murder. Well, the locals wanted nothing to do with the illegal posse so the agitators were forced to go out of state to find outlaws that would do the bidding of the bankers and cattlemen. Train cars of the outlaws and equipment would show up in Cheyenne and the local population knew what they were there for and went to the mayor and governor to ask why they were letting known outlaws form this posse to go illegally harass and run off settlers, but their pleas fell on def ears because of the money ties to government, and come to find out ties to government all the way to the whitehouse.

    The militarizatized posse is finally formed and heads north to start the harassment, they are even smart enough to send a fast rider the day before to cut telegraph wires so the settlers can not warn others of the impending doom headed their way.

    I’ll sum up the rest...

    Posse gets to the first ranch and have two locals holed up inside the cabin as the posse taunt and threaten them. Eventually killing them, A father and son randomly happen upon the armed posse and they narrowly escaped capture by pulling out a rifle and promise to defend themselves before the posse breaks off the chase and return to the siege of the cabin.

    The father and son make it Buffalo Wyoming and alarm the people of the posse and intentions headed their way, the county sheriffs and a local shop keeper throws open his doors and outfits another counter posse with guns,ammo and supplies to go round up and arrest the cattleman’s posse. The new defense posse heads south to meet the outlaws.

    The northern posse surrounds the outlaws at the ranch and set up a perimeter and try to negotiate their surrender to the sheriff, a single outlaw escapes to head south and tell the company men and bankers that they are surrounded. Bankers pull strings and get the military from fort Laramie to go take the outlaws in custody from the sheriffs posse, the sheriffs posse tells the military to pound sand. But they loose out without any injuries and the outlaws are literally rescued by the military and taken to Cheyenne where they are “under arrest” but walk the streets at night and patron local bars all at the expense of the northern Johnson county which eventually bankrupts the northern county and the local Laramie county releases the outlaws.....

    It tied people from the governor to the whitehouse.

    The book that covers all of this was written by a local newspaper guy who used to work for the bankers/ranchers but grew sympathetic to the settlers.

    The first printing of the book was rounded up and burned in the street after his office and printing press was smashed. The second edition was about to suffer the same fate, but an unknown individual took a wagonload south 45 miles to Greeley Co.

    Decades later the book would be stolen, defaced or destroyed from bookstores and libraries, including the extremely rare second edition copy at the Library Of Congress in Washington DC.
     
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    Vicente Zambada, the son of El Mayo Zambada(El Chapo's close friend/co-founder of Sinaloa Cartel) and heir to the throne of the cartel, called for the DEA to testify on his behalf during his trial and argued CDS(Cartel de Sinaloa) had a long standing deal with the DEA to inform on their rival cartels and in return be allowed to operate without interference. The DEA declined to comment or show up for the trial as I recall. Vicente had actually been arrested while leaving a DEA field office in Mx IIRC. And if you look at the 2001-2014 timeframe, theres a hideously obvious trend of Mx gov't forces htting every cartel hard, except for Sinaloa.. ie a huge disparity in number of arrests/seizures/etc of CDS members/merch compared to the rest of the groups.

    Matter of fact, Chapo's trial is ongoing as we speak, and I hope like hell he exposes every dirty SOB in gov't on both sides of the border. I'm sure before MX extradited him, there was likely a deal worked out though where as long as he keeps his mouth shut, they won't touch his family and sons(multiple sons of his have indictments currently in USA). Interesting not a single MSM outlet is saying a peep about his trial... likely(almost certainly) purposefully due to being afraid of what he might say and who he might expose.
     
    maybe its time for a PSA campaign.

    Vicente Zambada, the son of El Mayo Zambada(El Chapo's close friend/co-founder of Sinaloa Cartel) and heir to the throne of the cartel, called for the DEA to testify on his behalf during his trial and argued CDS(Cartel de Sinaloa) had a long standing deal with the DEA to inform on their rival cartels and in return be allowed to operate without interference. The DEA declined to comment or show up for the trial as I recall. Vicente had actually been arrested while leaving a DEA field office in Mx IIRC. And if you look at the 2001-2014 timeframe, theres a hideously obvious trend of Mx gov't forces htting every cartel hard, except for Sinaloa.. ie a huge disparity in number of arrests/seizures/etc of CDS members/merch compared to the rest of the groups.

    Matter of fact, Chapo's trial is ongoing as we speak, and I hope like hell he exposes every dirty SOB in gov't on both sides of the border. I'm sure before MX extradited him, there was likely a deal worked out though where as long as he keeps his mouth shut, they won't touch his family and sons(multiple sons of his have indictments currently in USA). Interesting not a single MSM outlet is saying a peep about his trial... likely(almost certainly) purposefully due to being afraid of what he might say and who he might expose.
     
    Did I miss something? How do we know he is a descendant? I didn’t see that stated anywhere. I must be getting old.

    Taking @gayguns at his word. No reason to doubt him.

    The fact that he promotes him in his sig line caught my eye and knowing how obscure the history of Sam Whittemore is in the general population leads me top be confident he is the real deal.
     
    Interesting bit of history.

    The speed at which The Japanese assisted the pilot and turned on the Hawaiians was used as evidence the Japanese couldn’t be trusted as to their loyalty to the USA.. hence the government policy of internment camps for Japanese Americans
    Which was spot fucking on. Today there would be howls of rage, but back then this was just common sense. It could have been handled better, but throwing rocks at those decisions and judging them by your standards is ludicrous.

    When I saw the thread title the Niihau Incident was the first thing I thought of...
     
    Taking @gayguns at his word. No reason to doubt him.

    The fact that he promotes him in his sig line caught my eye and knowing how obscure the history of Sam Whittemore is in the general population leads me top be confident he is the real deal.

    Ah. Im not doubting, I just didn’t see anywhere in the thread that you listed where he mentioned it. I most have missed it. I also haven’t noticed the sig line. That’s pretty cool. I would think many of us are related to people like that. I myself am related to George Washington and some other important people in history, albeit it distant. I’ve never done the research tho. It’s purely off of family telling me this stuff, people that traced it themselves.
     
    Smedley Butler

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

    In 1933, he became involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot, when he told a congressional committee that a group of wealthy industrialists were planning a military coup to overthrow Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler selected to lead a march of veterans to become dictator, similar to Fascist regimes at that time. The individuals involved all denied the existence of a plot and the media ridiculed the allegations, but a final report by a special House of Representatives Committee confirmed some of Butler's testimony.
     
    Ah. Im not doubting, I just didn’t see anywhere in the thread that you listed where he mentioned it. I most have missed it. I also haven’t noticed the sig line. That’s pretty cool. I would think many of us are related to people like that. I myself am related to George Washington and some other important people in history, albeit it distant. I’ve never done the research tho. It’s purely off of family telling me this stuff, people that traced it themselves.
    Yea, well your mama prolly told you you're part Cherokee too on account of your high cheekbones or some shit.
     
    Yea, well your mama prolly told you you're part Cherokee too on account of your high cheekbones or some shit.

    Buahahaha. No. Well I might be 1/650th percent or some shit like that (sound familiar). I can post my history up online at some point. People in my family have been researching this for years. I just really never cared. I mean I do but I don’t.
     
    Great stuff guys. I had heard the Sam Whittemore story somewhere before but it was good for another read.

    Here is the interesting story of america’s first war on Islamic terror and the first American edition of the Koran. You have to see the inside of the editors preface.

    https://wallbuilders.com/barbary-powers/

    This site (Wallbuilders) is an organization that has the largest collection of American documents prior to 1810 outside of the library of Congress.
    The main guy, David Barton, has a series on YouTube called “American History in Black and White”. It is the BEST recounting of the true history of slavery, and which side promoted it, I have ever seen.
    That link will follow in a few days.
     
    Great stuff guys. I had heard the Sam Whittemore story somewhere before but it was good for another read.

    Here is the interesting story of america’s first war on Islamic terror and the first American edition of the Koran. You have to see the inside of the editors preface.

    https://wallbuilders.com/barbary-powers/

    This site (Wallbuilders) is an organization that has the largest collection of American documents prior to 1810 outside of the library of Congress.
    The main guy, David Barton, has a series on YouTube called “American History in Black and White”. It is the BEST recounting of the true history of slavery, and which side promoted it, I have ever seen.
    That link will follow in a few days.

    From the preface:

    Absurdities and Contemptible

    What two better words to describe the situation?
     
    From the preface:

    Absurdities and Contemptible

    What two better words to describe the situation?

    Smart people early on said the same things about Mein Kampf yet look where they were a decade later.

    You can either believe and follow 100 percent of the Koran or 100 percent of the US Constitution but not 100 percent of both.
     
    Ah. Im not doubting, I just didn’t see anywhere in the thread that you listed where he mentioned it. I most have missed it. I also haven’t noticed the sig line. That’s pretty cool. I would think many of us are related to people like that. I myself am related to George Washington and some other important people in history, albeit it distant. I’ve never done the research tho. It’s purely off of family telling me this stuff, people that traced it themselves.

    I came on to find this thread...

    Hey. It's good to doubt! Just like it's good to not trust. Trust is something that's earned.

    But for the record.. I do have an actual printed Whittemore Genealogy here somewhere that a 2nd cousin, Kenneth Whittemore once researched and was able to verifiy descendants along the way using county records. He also found that he (we) are direct descendants of someone on the Mayflower and thus went through the tedious process of verifying himself to become a member of the "Society of Mayflower Descendants"... of whom he is now an elder) Kenneth Whittemore is pictured on page 6 of this document: http://www.thepilgrimwilliamwhitesociety.org/TPWWS_News-1-2_website_edition.pdf Kenneth even offered to help me in becoming a member but I am to lazy to do the trudging and extremely tedious footwork of hunting (from where ever he left off) to verify myself. It means many trips to county offices looking for needles in a haystack and I am much to ADHD for that. Plus... it just kind of seems (TO ME) a little ego based. I have a hard enough time keeping my ego at bay. hahaha.

    Kenneth grew up in Endicott (my home town) also... where in another post I mentioned little geographical Whittemore landmarks remembrences of our family that remain around the town of Endicott.

    Several other relations to notable people:

    "Ken joined the District of Columbia Society of Mayflower Descendants in 1976 on his maternal Edward Doty line and became a dual member of the California Society in 1988. He has found 8 additional lines toFrancis Cooke, Edward Fuller, Stephen Hopkins and William White.
     
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    I came on to find this thread...

    Hey. It's good to doubt! Just like it's good to not trust. Trust is something that's earned.

    But for the record.. I do have an actual printed Whittemore Genealogy here somewhere that a 2nd cousin, Kenneth Whittemore once researched and was able to verifiy descendants along the way using county records. He also found that he (we) are direct descendants of someone on the Mayflower and thus went through the tedious process of verifying himself to become a member of the "Society of Mayflower Descendants"... of whom he is now an elder) Kenneth Whittemore is pictured on page 6 of this document: http://www.thepilgrimwilliamwhitesociety.org/TPWWS_News-1-2_website_edition.pdf Kenneth even offered to help me in becoming a member but I am to lazy to do the trudging and extremely tedious footwork of hunting (from where ever he left off) to verify myself. It means many trips to county offices looking for needles in a haystack and I am much to ADHD for that. Plus... it just kind of seems (TO ME) a little ego based. I have a hard enough time keeping my ego at bay. hahaha.

    Kenneth grew up in Endicott (my home town) also... where in another post I mentioned little geographical Whittemore landmarks of our family.
    Several other relations to notable people:

    "Ken joined the District of Columbia Society of Mayflower Descendants in 1976 on his maternal Edward Doty line and became a dual member of the California Society in 1988. He has found 8 additional lines toFrancis Cooke, Edward Fuller, Stephen Hopkins and William White.

    That’s awesome. I’m actually related to John Alden and Priscilla Mullins who came over on the Mayflower as well. Read about them sometimes. Pretty interesting. But, I haven’t researched much. I might now that you guy got me interested. Haha.
     
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    That’s awesome. I’m actually related to John Alden who came over on the Mayflower as well. Read about him sometimes.

    Oh heck yeah! John Alden is quite famous. http://mayflowerhistory.com/alden/ That's so cool! Did you know about the Society of Mayflower Descendants? If you do the footwork you can become part of the heritage / registered member. Something that, if you have kids, you might want to pass onto them.

    JohnAldenBroadside2.jpg
     
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    Oh heck yeah! John Alden is quite famous. http://mayflowerhistory.com/alden/ That's so cool! Did you know about the Society of Mayflower Descendants? If you do the footwork you can become part of the heritage / registered member. Something that, if you have kids, you might want to pass onto them.

    View attachment 6974453

    So my mom looked into joining but said they wanted like $10,000 a year or something crazy to join so she says.
     
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    A general repository for all those fun / weird stories that every history teacher somehow managed to avoid telling you.
    Anything American History related is fair game.

    Please include links for further reading when possible.

    I will start off with this one.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident

    Japanese pilot crashes his plane on a small Hawaiian island after Pearl Harbor. He terrorizes the residents for a while until they bash his head in with a rock and slit his throat.
    I have seen the remains of his plane. They actually preserved them pretty well and have them on display at Pearl Harbor.

    I love esoteric history!