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Rifle Scopes Schmidt and Bender: is it time to cut my losses

adb77

adb77

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 5, 2014
118
10
Goshen, Ar
I purchased a S&B pm II a couple of years back, p4f reticle brand new. While setting the diopter to my eye I noticed a small imperfection on the cross hair. I decided it was something I could live with a mounted it on a 300wm. The next year grease spots started appearing on the reticle. At this point I decided to send it back, contacted S&B, spent 50$ shipping and insurance and away it goes. Never received any communication from them, till shipping notification. Received scope, looked thru it, and discovered reticle had been replaced with P3. Called the next morning, they send a shipping label, scope overnighted both ways on their dime. Received scope 1 week later, correct reticle, set up diopter, zero, fire dot drill move to 500yds. Parallax will not move passed 480ish. Feels gritty around the lower settings. Call Schmidt, receive shipping label for 3 day shipping, and here we are. My point is, all confidence is shot as far as this being a optic I can count on. Customer service has been ok, definetely not Vortex level or even NF, my plan at this point is to sell the optic, cut my losses and purchase a NF atacr, or Kahles. Has anyone out there had a similar experience, or am I just some kind of unlucky.
 
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I've had problems with three S&B scopes in 10+ years. The latest one I bought used, and the Illumination doesn't work. The two I sent in we're repaired correctly, and experienced very good customer service. Still waiting to send the third one in for repair.

Sorry you had problems, I think you may be the minority in this situation. I would call them and try to rectify the issues with them, and give them the opportunity to make it right.
 
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An old school term for such an experience is a "lemon" and there's just something about it that can never be rectified no matter what you do. I have several S&B's, all but two purchased used and have never had one small glitch with any of them.
 
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Wow man, I'm disappointed to hear this. If you can't trust what your using it's probably best to sell it and move on.

I was actually thinking about purchasing a S&B to give it a try but I don't think so now.
 
ShtrRdy said:
Wow man, I'm disappointed to hear this. If you can't trust what your using it's probably best to sell it and move on.

I was actually thinking about purchasing a S&B to give it a try but I don't think so now.
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Although the OP has justified concerns, although a rare occurrence, I wouldn't base that on your potential purchase of a quality product. As there are 99+% of end users who are very satisfied with S&B products.
 
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Hippy_Steve said:
I'm impressed by how low information this statement is. May i suggest you do some reading on the subject of top tier optics and learn why S&B is the gold standard.
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The gold standard is why I purchased to begin with, the resolution this scope has is phenomenal. I am really torn on what to do. 3rd time back, and I have been in the phone repeatedly with their CS people. 50 bucks out of pocket, and without the scope for a month. I need to add when scope came back with P3 ref. they offered to send me a loaner, but overnight both ways made more sense.
 
Companies have the risk of losing their recipe in what made them desirable. It's possible S&B quality is not as good as it use to be.
 
Why did the first shipping cost you, but the last two didn’t? I’ve sent two back for checkups over the year because I thought there was a problem. There wasn’t, and they came back to me in a few days having gone through a checkup. They usually end up replacing some o-rings and other small parts.

Hock it, someone here will buy it quickly.
 
Supersubes said:
Why did the first shipping cost you, but the last two didn’t? I’ve sent two back for checkups over the year because I thought there was a problem. There wasn’t, and they came back to me in a few days having gone through a checkup. They usually end up replacing some o-rings and other small parts.

Hock it, someone here will buy it quickly.
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Originally when I spoke to them I was told I would be responsible for shipping both ways, and they were only eligible for free cleaning once every ten years. Even though the grease spots were no fault of mine and they gave the impression that they were skeptical that there was any reticle imperfection. They paid shipping after I sent pics of the P3 reticle in the scope. And have sent label to me after my informing them of parallax issue.
 
ShtrRdy said:
Companies have the risk of losing their recipe in what made them desirable. It's possible S&B quality is not as good as it use to be.
Click to expand...

Every company makes mistakes. The swapping of the wrong reticle was clearly a direct human mistake. Every human makes mistakes.

The issue with the oil spots was a short lived problem, and has been rectified with a different grease. The grease they used that caused the oil spot problems was not made by S&B, but from another company, so you really can't blame S&B for that.

Face it, man made products fail from time to time. Planes fall out of the sky and crash, rockets blow up on the launch pad, etc. It's an imperfect world.
 
adb77 said:
Originally when I spoke to them I was told I would be responsible for shipping both ways, and they were only eligible for free cleaning once every ten years. Even though the grease spots were no fault of mine and they gave the impression that they were skeptical that there was any reticle imperfection. They paid shipping after I sent pics of the P3 reticle in the scope. And have sent label to me after my informing them of parallax issue.
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That’s weird, I’ve never paid for shipping back to them. Is this a 5-25, or something else?
 
Supersubes said:
That’s weird, I’ve never paid for shipping back to them. Is this a 5-25, or something else?
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Really? I just paid about $50 two weeks ago sending in a 4-16x42 w/ grease spots, gritty parallax, and uneven/excessive friction on the mag ring. Plus I’ve been given two different price quotes for a turret change job. Hmm...
 
YF12A said:
Rockets blow up on the launch pad.

I prefer the way a friend who worked for NASA a long time ago told me.

Catastrophic Disassembly.
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Or as an AF Missle Range Officer once said to me, it was an Anomaly.
 
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Basher said:
Really? I just paid about $50 two weeks ago sending in a 4-16x42 w/ grease spots, gritty parallax, and uneven/excessive friction on the mag ring. Plus I’ve been given two different price quotes for a turret change job. Hmm...
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My most recent one was last year sometime. Jerry Ricker is the contact. Each time he emails the label.
 
See, I went through the website and got connected w/ Darrell. Go figure. If they honor the lower turret swap price, then my shipping’s covered, haha. If not, well, I’ll probably pass on it. Guess we’ll see, but while it seems I could have saved shipping, that’s a wash since I accepted it anyway, no worries there.

As long as the thing comes back fixed the first time, I’ll be happy w/ the $50 shipping.
 
Basher said:
Really? I just paid about $50 two weeks ago sending in a 4-16x42 w/ grease spots, gritty parallax, and uneven/excessive friction on the mag ring. Plus I’ve been given two different price quotes for a turret change job. Hmm...
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This pretty much mirrors the experience I’ve had, paid my own shipping asked if a different reticle could put in since old one was coming out. Told me it would be 800$ for change and I would be responsible for return shipping.
 
ShtrRdy said:
Wow man, I'm disappointed to hear this. If you can't trust what your using it's probably best to sell it and move on.

I was actually thinking about purchasing a S&B to give it a try but I don't think so now.
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Reports of hide members having issues with their TT and Zcomps too...you better stay away from those also. :rolleyes:
 
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Basher said:
See, I went through the website and got connected w/ Darrell. Go figure. If they honor the lower turret swap price, then my shipping’s covered, haha. If not, well, I’ll probably pass on it. Guess we’ll see, but while it seems I could have saved shipping, that’s a wash since I accepted it anyway, no worries there.

As long as the thing comes back fixed the first time, I’ll be happy w/ the $50 shipping.
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Jerry Ricker has been a fixture at s&b and the Hide for a long time. Think he goes by “Jerry R” here. Haven’t seen him in a while. Maybe they’ve had a policy change with regard to returns.


This is from Jan 2018. Don’t want to get Jerry in trouble, he’s been a real credit to S&B since he got there.
 

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Supersubes said:
Jerry Ricker has been a fixture at s&b and the Hide for a long time. Think he goes by “Jerry R” here. Haven’t seen him in a while. Maybe they’ve had a policy change with regard to returns.


This is from 1/18. Don’t want to get Jerry in trouble, he’s been a real credit to S&B since he got there.
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That was going to be my question as well: Who has the OP been dealing with?

The only time I had an issue (turned out to be self-induced because I subjected my scope to temperatures beyond its operating range) I found Jerry's contact info here and he took care of everything, fast.
 
Man, I understand your frustration. I've been in the same boat as you on multiple occasions. Three different scopes from three different brands. All "Alpha" German glass too. They all shit the bed. So I'm going back to what works for me.
 
@Jerry R is still active, he commented on another thread.

And as I stated, saving the shipping to would have been nice, but as long as she comes back in like new shape, I’ll be happy. :)
 
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Rekkr870 said:
Man, I understand your frustration. I've been in the same boat as you on multiple occasions. Three different scopes from three different brands. All "Alpha" German glass too. They all shit the bed. So I'm going back to what works for me.
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What are you going back to?
 
I have spoken with Jerry at Schmidt as well as others, my problem is not with the CS staff at S&B. The 50$ shipping would have been nice not to pay but it is what it is. More so with the fact that the scope has had issues, for what they cost I guess I have expectations that may be unrealistic. Hopefully when it comes back this time it never has another issue. Who knows, anything mechanical is prone to failure. I tend to use my stuff hard at times, and this scope is no exception. I have moved it from my long distance hunting rifle to a rifle I intend to shoot matches with. I believe I will go with NF for that gun in the future.
 
Rekkr870 said:
CounterSniper.

No, in all honesty I am going back to Razor's (AMG), and Nightforce.

Sending scopes back through customs to Europe and Canada is exhausting.
[/QUOTE/
Ive got an Osprey Intl. that I would look great beside that counter sniper:/ Willing to make the right guy a helluva deal.
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adb77 said:
I have spoken with Jerry at Schmidt as well as others, my problem is not with the CS staff at S&B. The 50$ shipping would have been nice not to pay but it is what it is. More so with the fact that the scope has had issues, for what they cost I guess I have expectations that may be unrealistic. Hopefully when it comes back this time it never has another issue. Who knows, anything mechanical is prone to failure. I tend to use my stuff hard at times, and this scope is no exception. I have moved it from my long distance hunting rifle to a rifle I intend to shoot matches with. I believe I will go with NF for that gun in the future.
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Yep, anything mechanical will break. Unfortunately, that goes for the highest end European scopes too. I hope that S&B works out for you when it gets back. We're living in a great time for optics and were lucky to have so many options out there.
 
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bjay said:
My response was also for sarcasm :) lol
Other note its true that any components are intent to brake or like stated above..LEMON
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Well now don’t I feel smart. ;)
 
What I've done in the past with mfg's with consistent problems with one item, is tell them:

"I paid for a high end optic. I've now had to send it back three times and I just no longer have confidence in this particular unit. If you do, then fine, please send me a new one and you can do whatever you like with the old one."

Usually they "get it" and will make it right.
 
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phillip61 said:
I would get the new IOR Recon Gen II. Awesome scope. You won't never have to worry about sending it back.
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Ok. Grab a cat by the tail shake it up and throw it over the fence.
Prob is you are serious and believe that load and keep coming here and trying to convince others. Friends don’t let friends
Buy IOCrapdota. But go ahead Clay Aiken,
Keep buying crap and be proud of it.
 
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YF12A said:
Rockets blow up on the launch pad.

I prefer the way a friend who worked for NASA a long time ago told me.

Catastrophic Disassembly.
Click to expand...

LMAO.. I am going to use that line from now on
 
I think even when it comes back fixed....you’ll never truly be able to trust it in your heart. You’ll always have that nagging worry.

That being the case, I will take it off your hands so you can sleep easier at night (only half joking). Seriously, I’ll buy it for a....reasonably fair price.
 
adb77 said:
I have spoken with Jerry at Schmidt as well as others, my problem is not with the CS staff at S&B. The 50$ shipping would have been nice not to pay but it is what it is. More so with the fact that the scope has had issues, for what they cost I guess I have expectations that may be unrealistic. Hopefully when it comes back this time it never has another issue. Who knows, anything mechanical is prone to failure. I tend to use my stuff hard at times, and this scope is no exception. I have moved it from my long distance hunting rifle to a rifle I intend to shoot matches with. I believe I will go with NF for that gun in the future.
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Because NF never has any problems? Have you considered your S&B scope may be the victim of an incompetent employee? If a dumfuck mechanic fixes your car wrong do you blame the manufacturer? Do you proceed to sell the car and buy the competitor’s car? Think about the course of action you’re taking. Why did you buy that S&B? Because you thought it would never break? Or did you buy it because it is a premium optic? Everything breaks.

I’m sure now that JerryR is involved your scope will come back perfect.
 
Basher said:
@Jerry R is still active, he commented on another thread.

And as I stated, saving the shipping to would have been nice, but as long as she comes back in like new shape, I’ll be happy. :)
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Send him a starbucks gift card when you send anything in and the Man will love you long time. Jerry R is good people.
 
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I wouldn’t personally write off an optic manufacturer for it. I’ve seen all of them go down.

I would however, not have faith in a specific optic (like the actual individual scope) if I had several problems with it.

If they don’t sent an entirely new optic, I’d make sure if functions flawlessly, then sell it. Even if it was to buy the exact same model. Just for mental piece of mind. I wouldn’t sell it if I wasn’t confident that it works properly. But I wouldn’t want to be mind fucking my self second guessing it.
 
Dthomas3523 said:
@TheGerman @Bender @sirhrmechanic @Dirty D @TacticalDillhole
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LOL, I’m too fucking poor to even read a Schmidt und Spender thread. I will piss in the pond before I take my broke ass back to trolling the Motorvational thread by saying that I was discussing scope failures with Pete Gould and he said that S&B had about a 50% failure rate for their scopes shipped to the Army.

Now if you will excuse me I’m going to go be poor somewhere else.
 
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phillip61 said:
I would get the new IOR Recon Gen II. Awesome scope. You won't never have to worry about sending it back.
Click to expand...

Lowlight's post from this IOR thread is all you need to know in relation to this stupidity.





Lowlight
HMFIC of this Shit

Sorry guys,

I thought we banned Phillip so we didn't have to suffer his endless propaganda in regards to IOR.

After all it's the best scope the reviewer above never shot. Funny, how the best scope from the best company has to go to the manufacturer of every other scope out there to make their best scope ever.

They should just call it, IOR Optics and Casino to bring out the truth in advertising. This way everyone knows the bet they are taking when they lay their money down.

Each year they try, and each year they fail, I am surprised they are still in business. But when you buy low and sell high, well the model works.

Why would even entertain this when we have so many proven winners out there. A fool and his money is soon parted is the old saying it applies here more than ever.
 
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