Just got a text from a friend that Sig has been charged with illegal gun sales to Columbia.
I guess HK is also involved in another case same thing but with Mexico?
I guess HK is also involved in another case same thing but with Mexico?
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Hi,
Yes and No.
First the charges are NOT in the USA. They are Germany charges as it is not illegal for USA company to sell to Columbia or Mexico but indeed are not allowed by German based companies.
The charges are that Sig and HK knew the final destination of the firearms before they were shipped to the USA based sister companies.
German Court just finalized sentencing of HK executives by giving them suspended sentences and seizure of the 4.2 million USD of the Mexico proceeds.
The Sig case involves 38,000 of the 47,000 pistols shipped to the USA facility between 2009-2011 ultimately being "re-exported" to Columbia which would violate Germany firearms trade laws.
Sincerely,
Theis
Yes and No.
First the charges are NOT in the USA. They are Germany charges as it is not illegal for USA company to sell to Columbia or Mexico but indeed are not allowed by German based companies.
The charges are that Sig and HK knew the final destination of the firearms before they were shipped to the USA based sister companies.
German Court just finalized sentencing of HK executives by giving them suspended sentences and seizure of the 4.2 million USD of the Mexico proceeds.
The Sig case involves 38,000 of the 47,000 pistols shipped to the USA facility between 2009-2011 ultimately being "re-exported" to Columbia which would violate Germany firearms trade laws.
Sincerely,
Theis
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Here it is, fresh off the truck:
https://www.seacoastonline.com/news...ver-colombia-gun-sales-via-nh?template=ampart
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BERLIN (AP) -- Three former executives of German gun maker Sig Sauer went on trial Tuesday in Germany on suspicion of illegally selling firearms to Colombia by funneling them through a U.S. sister company.
The trial in the northern city of Kiel centers on 180 shipments of semi-automatic SP 2022 pistols transferred from Sig Sauer's factory in Germany to its New Hampshire affiliate from 2009 to 2011.
Prosecutors claim that more than 38,000 of the 47,000 pistols shipped to the United States were subsequently forwarded to Colombia, in breach of the export license issued by German authorities.
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Those gun companies that are so eager to make some extra bucks.........Why don't y'all find a way to fund the citizens of Venezuela with a good supply of weapons and ammo so they can shut the fucking clown show down already.
https://www.seacoastonline.com/news...ver-colombia-gun-sales-via-nh?template=ampart
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BERLIN (AP) -- Three former executives of German gun maker Sig Sauer went on trial Tuesday in Germany on suspicion of illegally selling firearms to Colombia by funneling them through a U.S. sister company.
The trial in the northern city of Kiel centers on 180 shipments of semi-automatic SP 2022 pistols transferred from Sig Sauer's factory in Germany to its New Hampshire affiliate from 2009 to 2011.
Prosecutors claim that more than 38,000 of the 47,000 pistols shipped to the United States were subsequently forwarded to Colombia, in breach of the export license issued by German authorities.
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Those gun companies that are so eager to make some extra bucks.........Why don't y'all find a way to fund the citizens of Venezuela with a good supply of weapons and ammo so they can shut the fucking clown show down already.
I've actually been doing just that after I ran out of new HK models to buy.
That and some CZ since we want to support the freedom loving eastern Europeans who still believe in like God, Freedom and their own country/people.
I'm SIG/HK poor. Now they give a boner more than ever..
I'm sure their version of dept of state had to approve export licenses and exported was from US approved here. No different if our government purchased and did a lend lease. Doubtful if that goes anywhere. My guess they have left wing dickheads in their government too.
Hi,
And just like USA company...you cannot export to a legal/allowed country knowing the products are intended for a non legal/allowed country.
Big difference than a govt lend/lease.
I would say 4.2 million USD fine is a little different than "not going anywhere".
Sincerely,
Theis
And just like USA company...you cannot export to a legal/allowed country knowing the products are intended for a non legal/allowed country.
Big difference than a govt lend/lease.
I would say 4.2 million USD fine is a little different than "not going anywhere".
Sincerely,
Theis
So I take it that Eric Holder, Sig and HK aren't equal when it comes to gunrunners?
Oh, getting way off topic.
That's another whole can of worms!
Oh, getting way off topic.
That's another whole can of worms!
I'm confused then. Are the arms not to be sold to "unsettled" countries? Or, what's the deal with Germany's law?
Lmmfao
I have had a few Bourbons tonite but do those numbers equate to a value of about $100 per weapon?
I understand this case is what has kept Sig from pushing the SSG 3000 in the states.
Students at Sig Academy that use loaner equipment get SSGs.
One of the classes I was at student asked about buying an SSG and the instructor mentioned an import/export case that kept Germany from shipping NH rifles.
Students at Sig Academy that use loaner equipment get SSGs.
One of the classes I was at student asked about buying an SSG and the instructor mentioned an import/export case that kept Germany from shipping NH rifles.
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Hi,
Their law is pretty similar to the USA law. They have a list of embargo countries they cannot sell to, just as USA does. You cannot export items to an approved country knowing they are intended for a country on the embargo list.
Example:
I cannot sell to Kazakhstan knowing the final destination of the items is Russia because Russia in on embargo list. (Even though I can sell to Kazakhstan legally all day long)
In HK and Sig situation:
They sent the items to their USA based entities knowing the final destination of the items were to countries on Germany embargo list.
They knew those countries were not on USA embargo list, so it was a way to "get around" the German laws.
There are ways this could have been handled to keep Sig and HK "clean" but they were too greedy.
Sincerely,
Theis
What Columbia were they selling guns to? The clothing shop? The university?
???...that country which has, over the years, imported billions in cocaine and brought violence with it?
I thought they exported the cocaine
I thought he meant "The District of".
More crime there per square foot than anywhere else in the world.
All they had to do was make a donation to the Clinton Foundation and none of this would have happened. 
Good point
They imported to us/exported from them....brought a lot of violence to both countries.
So the more I think about this the more I believe there is way more to the story?
All you have to do is think about this: '2009-2011'!
This has been going on for a number of years. The US government was the ultimate straw purchaser for Columbia, lol.
'Export ban' for arms maker SIG Sauer over Colombia guns
Germany issues an export ban for arms maker SIG Sauer after its guns are found to have been sold to the Colombian police without the required licence.
www.bbc.com
All they had to do was make a donation to the Clinton Foundation and none of this would have happened.
Hi,
All they really had to do is run the export through a USA distributor and/or independent broker/exporter instead of keeping it "in house" but they did not want to pay the 7-9% broker fees.
Germany Government has no control whether a USA based company gets DDTC export license and ships the products to said country but Germany does control what German based companies do, even with USA based sister companies.
Sincerely,
Theis
I have lived about 5 miles as the crow flies from DC, thank God, and my very smart parents, in VA almost all of my life. You truly would not believe the shit that never gets into the National "news". A couple of DC Leo's are customers of mine and the stories they tell me, I have to ask if they are messing with me. They are not, just UFB. Then, there is Baltimore! Don't have to watch what happens in Detroit, got it here. And DC wants to become a state? God truly help us! Can't wait to move to Winchester VA.
Sig didn't sell the guns to Columbia, the US Gov't did.
Hi,
And that is going to be Sigs defense all the way until they agree to the fines
because it all comes down to KNOWING.Because the way FMS (Foreign Military Sales) work is the Department of Defense Security Cooperation contacts manufacturers requesting if they can fulfill xyz FMS criteria.
Too bad for Sig the DDSC can show the End User Certificates that were supplied to them in the FMS request specifically shows Columbia Government as the End User.
At that point Sig USA by German law was required to commit to either USA manufactured pistols or respectfully deny the FMS but since Sig USA could not accommodate the quantity per timeline they contacted Sig Germany and said we are going to need x amount of pistols in y amount of time. Whether Sig USA informed Sig Germany as to why such increase in shipment allocation is yet to be determined.
Sig Germany is going to try and use the defense of Import Certificates, which basically states that once the firearms are in the USA then the USA Government assumes legal control and ownership of the firearms and that the firearms then are subject to USA law and not German law. Which would be correct up until a single text or email is found of Sig USA mentioning Columbia FMS as the reason for increased shipment allocation.
Sincerely,
Theis
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