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Rifle Scopes Tangent Theta 3-15M VS P

Just Macca

Mealteam 6
Full Member
Minuteman
May 13, 2013
553
355
Australia
Can anyone shed any light on what the optical differences are between the two TT 3-15 offerings? Does the P have better glass to go along with its weight, length, elevation, turrets and price? Or are they just as good as each other?

Further to that, do they hold their own against the 5-25P? Leaving the extra 10 magnification aside of course.
 
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Can anyone shed any light on what the optical differences are between the two TT 3-15 offerings? Does the P have better glass to go along with its weight, length, elevation, turrets and price? Or are they just as good as each other?

Further to that, do they hold their own against the 5-25P? Leaving the extra 10 magnification aside of course.


Same glass/coatings from what I remember but what you get with the P model is the larger 34mm tube with nearly double the elevation and the tool-less zero stop. All three scopes are for different purposes but they are all excellent and I've never had a complaint about them from our customers :)
Please let me know if we can help you on a Tangent theta, we'd be happy to help.
 
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I don't have experience with Tangent Theta but I do have experience with Premier and I can tell you the Premier LT / TT315M is the best 3-15 I've ever looked through. According to ILya the TT315M is the optical brother of the TT315P with the P being a bit more robust and having different turrets. The TT315M has double turn elevation turrets -12 mil total (6 mil per rev), is quite a bit lighter and has a 30mm tube. I would not hesitate to recommend the TT315M based on my experience with the Premier LT and I hear the TT version is even slightly better.

Regarding holding its own against the TT525P, they are two different scopes with different optical formulas, are you simply asking if the IQ is similar in both? If that is the case then everyone who has owned both whom I've read has said they are very close with some saying the 5-25 has a slight edge; however, when you're talking the best optical quality out there, the TT315M will still shine over anything else in its category. That being said, some might feel limited by the 3-15 range and therefore end up choosing the Schmidt & Bender Ultra Short 3-20x50 which is close in weight but offers 5x for magnification on top, even the new Kahles K318i has been told to have amazing glass in a compact package. What it usually comes down to is this - reticle. If you're getting an alpha class (tier 1, etc.) scope, they are all pretty much superb performers, I'd recommend you find the reticle that you love within the zoom range you desire and choose more on that criteria. For example, if you really love the SKMR3 reticle, do you feel you will have remorse that you didn't go with the TT or Schmidt because you think the TT/S&B might have had a wee bit more pop/resolution?
 
The image on the 30mm model is identical and actually holds better on both ends of the elevation range because you guessed it the 34mm model has nearly double the elevation range. Choose on your use ie: weight and elevation needs and rest comfortably that the optical performance is essentially identical.
 
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Thanks to all for answering. I have noticed a lot of people have said the Gen 2XR reticle is too thin on low mag.

Will the forthcoming MSR2 fix this issue? I think it has .7mil duplex bars in contrast to the .3mil of the XR. Thoughts?
 
Thanks to all for answering. I have noticed a lot of people have said the Gen 2XR reticle is too thin on low mag.

Will the forthcoming MSR2 fix this issue? I think it has .7mil duplex bars in contrast to the .3mil of the XR. Thoughts?
Mine has Gen2 XR. It is a thin duplex at 3x. In low light, illumination helps.

If you do not need the Christmas Tree, Gen2 Mil-Dot is thicker, as is the upcoming reticle in the Hunter model.

ILya
 
Mine has Gen2 XR. It is a thin duplex at 3x. In low light, illumination helps.

If you do not need the Christmas Tree, Gen2 Mil-Dot is thicker, as is the upcoming reticle in the Hunter model.

ILya

Understood. I'm sort of wanting best of both worlds, a reticle that is instinctive and quick on 3 power without illum. But also fine for longer range work and with .2mil holds if possible.

From what I can see the Gen 2 Mil dot you referenced has .75mil thick bars. Is this sufficiently thick for the low power usage I'm hoping for? I wonder if the H series will be more around 1mil thick.

Considering the planned MSR2 has .7mil thick bars, and a small section of .2mil holds, hopefully the MSR2 finds its way into the M model.
 
Yes, the Gen II XR is a bit thin for my taste and would get lost in contrasty situations without illumination. Here's a pic of my Premier LT with mil-dot and then one with the Gen II XR - please know that images are difficult to discern what the human eye actually sees through the scope, to my eyes the reticles were easier to find than what these pics show, but they do show how the mil-dot is more usable at lower mags; however, I rarely shoot at lower mags and so I preferred the Gen II XR even though it was thinner.

3-15_Scopes_0004.jpg


Premier_LT_3-15x50_GenIIXR_0001.jpg
 
Hi Just Macca,

ILya said it well, optically the 3-15M and 3-15P are identical. The differences are of course the tube diameter, turrets/total travel, tool-less adjustment and weight. Between the 2 I actually prefer the P for the turrets and overall "feel", but really there is no way to argue against the M in almost all cases. Lighter, plenty of travel, excellent turrets (though not quite as fast or comfortable as the bigger ones if dialing constantly/quickly) and the same optical performance. I suppose if outright durability was a heavy concern that the P may also be more robust, but I wouldn't doubt the toughness of the M.

Compared to the 5-25, the image quality is the same technically I would imagine (and they are both just jaw-droppingly good) minus the larger objective and magnification. I would assume the 5-25 is generally going to be the best image you get from a TT, but it seems visually the same minus the power to me. As well, since the 3-15P is on the heavy side for its class, jumping the extra 4 ounces to the 5-25 might make sense if you prefer that power range etc. Note they are very different packages in terms of overall size and balance on a rifle though despite the modest weight difference.

For the reticles:

I think the G2MD is perfect in the 3-15 M/P (through the whole power range) and the Gen 2XR is perfect in the 5-25P. The G2MD actually has smaller subtensions in the important first .5 mil as it has the .28 mil per side floating cross as the center of the reticle. It is of course easy to visually split both reticles, but I just find the weight, appearance and utility of the gen 2 mil dot to be preferable in the 3-15. Of course this means I prefer to primarily dial elevation (those sweet sweet turrets) and typically only use elevation holds if they are small/quick or necessary for whatever reason.

In the 3-15 the inner lines of the reticle are also heavier in the G2MD (.15 mil vs. .025 mil) as well the full mil dots help beef up the visual profile. Depending on the lighting and color of the target the inner reticle on 3x can appear as a thin duplex/reference, or it can be visible enough to make out the subtensions. The illumination is just the inner .56 mil cross, which I also prefer and works well if you need it to reference center in very low light.

Sidebar: the center cross being .28 instead of .25 is a little weird (I'm sure there is a reason)...but in application it still works great and isn't worth getting worried about.

All that said I believe the main factor contributing to the increased reticle visibility on 3x is the presence of all 4 heavy outer bars (where on the Gen 2XR the bars are not only thinner but the bottom bar is further away at 10 mils). This really helps draw you to and bracket the center of the reticle. I think the G2MD will still be the best on 3x as the MSR2 for example only has two heavy bars and they don't start until 10 mils out (instead of 5). Of course we will have to wait and see what it actually looks like if it does show up in the TT scopes.

Keep in mind that it is still an ffp reticle at 3x, so it is still relatively small...but definitely visible enough to work well. Also keep in mind that as early as 5-6x I find them both very useable...so it really depends on how much you value the 3x use and also which reticle you prefer overall.

Hope that helps, the other posters here have made excellent points and posts as well. I am also definitely interested to see what new reticles show up in the TT scopes (whenever that may be). Have a good one!

-TSean

P.S. The pics above are good...nice work Wjm308!
 
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Excellent posts! There's some really good points there.

I'll have to wait and see if the MSR2 gets announced for the M. But I'll definitely consider the G2 Mil dot a bit more closely or even the H series.
 
Excellent posts! There's some really good points there.

I'll have to wait and see if the MSR2 gets announced for the M. But I'll definitely consider the G2 Mil dot a bit more closely or even the H series.
Did I miss something? I’ve only heard the MSR2 for Schmidt and Steiner, has TT announced it will be supported soon?
 
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Both of these optics the TT 3 x 15M & the S&B US 5 x 20 are headed out the door in the morning for a 72 hour stint into the wild. These optics are IMO perfect for my application. Precision work in the the dark shooting out to 500m paired with a PVS-30. Results to follow....
 
Yes, the Gen II XR is a bit thin for my taste and would get lost in contrasty situations without illumination. Here's a pic of my Premier LT with mil-dot and then one with the Gen II XR - please know that images are difficult to discern what the human eye actually sees through the scope, to my eyes the reticles were easier to find than what these pics show, but they do show how the mil-dot is more usable at lower mags; however, I rarely shoot at lower mags and so I preferred the Gen II XR even though it was thinner.

View attachment 6910367

View attachment 6910371
Wow is that the view from your house? I’m so jealous.
 
Did I miss something? I’ve only heard the MSR2 for Schmidt and Steiner, has TT announced it will be supported soon?

I believe Koshkin has some preliminary and unconfirmed information that there is a possibility TT will offer their optics with a revised Gen 2 XR, the Horus H59 and the MSR2. But once again, I'm of the understanding this is conjecture, albeit well informed conjecture from Koshkin.

So I'm happy to wait and see.
 
I believe Koshkin has some preliminary and unconfirmed information that there is a possibility TT will offer their optics with a revised Gen 2 XR, the Horus H59 and the MSR2. But once again, I'm of the understanding this is conjecture, albeit well informed conjecture from Koshkin.

So I'm happy to wait and see.
ILya is typically in the know with these companies so I would trust his conjecture more than most :)
 
Now, if I were claiming any particular availability date, that would be conjecture.
I had only heard they were going to be updating the design of the Gen II XR, but had not heard they would also be adding the MSR2 to their lineup so that is good news on both fronts.