Wrongful Conviction/Wrongful Prosecution,

They dont care about right or wrong right now.

Things are agenda driven and with no personal accountability they give shit not.

They want to end qualified immunity for cops while maintaining theirs.

Do something blatantly unjust or UnConstitutional? "Well let the peasants get their money together to sue me or defend their case."

In their effort they use tax payer money to prosecute and if they lose they use tax payer money to pay any punitive damages for their deceitful actions.

Next election they get re-elected - go figure.

As an aside.....

While we talk of this no one follows the fact that the last administration used the Justice and Intelligence apparatus of the United States of America to with treasonous intent spy on the election campaign of a rival.

BREAD AND CIRCUSES!

Tom Fitton was on local radio the other day and depressed me.

Love Tom Fittons work.

He is not optimistic that anyone beyond Clinesmith will see prosecution.

Basically Wray, Barr and Dunham are all slow stroking us along.

The only chance we have is a lame duck Trump that has negative fucks to give and the power to put his boot up an ass and the Kyle Rittenhouse willingness to do it.

If we dont hold those holding the highest in power accountable why should anyone be?

Sean the Nailer said:

That is nearly synonymous with what I'm getting at. When the 'people in power' (again, I use that term loosely) go out of their way to do WRONG,,,, what accounting/responsibility/recourse exists for the populace?

A wrongfully incarcerated man CANNOT get his time back. Be it hours, weeks, months, or years. And especially when it is DECADES.... how exactly is the COMPLETE prosecuting and investigating branch held accountable? How is even a hint of 'retribution' made?

"Just move along...." cannot continue to be the status quo. If individuals are in positions of 'authority' then they too need to be RESPONSIBLE for their position and the actions under their pervue.

There needs to be a LOT more "black and white" and a lot less 'grey area'.... just my opinion.

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Nor can a wrongfully executed one get his life back. That, if for no other reason is enough to outlaw the death penalty and why I support the Innocence Project. Theyve freed hundreds of wrongfully convicted men from life terms and death sentences.

A few years ago in Texas they had strong DNA evidence that a man about to be executed was innocent and asked then governor Rick Perry to delay the execution. He refused, the man died, and shortly there after the right guy was caught. They asked Perry if it bothered him and he said absolutely not. Rick is a real piece of shit awarding coal fired power plant contracts to his 'good buddies'.



Innocence Project - Help us put an end to wrongful convictions!
www.innocenceproject.org

The Innocence Project exonerates the wrongly convicted through DNA testing and reforms the criminal justice system to prevent future injustices.

Maggot said:

Nor can a wrongfully executed one get his life back. That, if for no other reason is enough to outlaw the death penalty and why I support the Innocence Project. Theyve freed hundreds of wrongfully convicted men from life terms and death sentences.

A few years ago in Texas they had strong DNA evidence that a man about to be executed was innocent and asked then governor Rick Perry to delay the execution. He refused, the man died, and shortly there after the right guy was caught. They asked Perry if it bothered him and he said absolutely not. Rick is a real piece of shit awarding coal fired power plant contracts to his 'good buddies'.


Innocence Project - Help us put an end to wrongful convictions!
www.innocenceproject.org

The Innocence Project exonerates the wrongly convicted through DNA testing and reforms the criminal justice system to prevent future injustices.

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Dont know the particulars of that case but if the executed person was "in the room" as an accomplice when the capital crime was committed I might not lose sleep either.

You are not going to be able to fix this until you completely wipe away the entire concept of immunity from the consequences of your actions.
I could write a small book here about the issue and how it pervades society from corporations, to judges, to politicians, to police, to healthcare, but I would be preaching to the choir.

The solution is that other people don't pay for your bad actions, the ones who did the bad actions are held PERSONALLY responsible BOTH criminally and civilly.

That is not going to happen until civilization is literally plowed back to bare dirt and rebuilt from scratch (and then only if the right folks do the rebuilding which is iffy at best.)

Some of the old ways worked pretty good. You provided false witness, you got the penalty you were trying to get for the other guy when you got found out.
You executed someone who turned out to be innocent... their relatives executed you.

The “jury of his peers” they will select will consist entirely of angry black transgender lesbians wearing BLM t-shirts and red Che Guevara caps.

People have forgotten that they themselves are the masters, not the politicians. Fix that and you fix the nation.

pmclaine said:

Dont know the particulars of that case but if the executed person was "in the room" as an accomplice when the capital crime was committed I might not lose sleep either.

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Search Results
Web results

Texas Gov. Rick Perry's death penalty debacle - Los Angeles ...
www.latimes.com › opinion › la-xpm-2012-oct-28-la-o...

Oct 28, 2012 - Rick Perry refused to stay the execution of Cameron Todd Willingham ... Perry's popularity dipped at home after he dropped out of the race, but ... a public hearing and, possibly, issue the executed man a posthumous pardon.

Sean the Nailer said:

I hear you, I get it, and I definitely DO agree with some of this....

The thing is though, there are some whom are absolutely guilty and DON'T deserve to live/breathe.... jeffery dahmer, clifford robert olson, john wayne gacy just to name a few. There are SO many more.

It is the MISTAKES and WRONGFUL PROSECUTIONS to which I'm referring. So often, there is 'more evidence' that was brought forth/un-sealed/uh-hidden and it is THAT to which I'm basically inferring/referring.

Holding the prosecutors personally, financially, and even biometrically liable (first offense, you lose a kidney) because there are so many more out there who need organs, compared to those who won't give one. It is high-time we made people whom are in a position of authority to actually be held responsible for the actions/decisions/inactions that they enable.

I won't deny that the Death Penalty isn't perfect. At the same time though, there are so many actual bastards that actually did heinous stuff that they DON'T deserve to live/breathe/exist. The world is a far better place without them.

I think, if we 'get rid of the death penalty because we 'might' execute the wrong person', then that is tantamount to 'get rid of jails because we might incarcerate the wrong person'. I'm not suggesting that, either. What I am truly trying to focus on, is the "persecutors" and them being held accountable for the job/position that they do.

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I agree that some of them certainly deserve death ans worse.

Where youre wrong is that, wrongfully convicted can be freed and though little compensation, can be given a large sum of money t help. Once youve taken a life there is NO giving it back. There are so many cases its mind boggling. Look at te link I provided.

Sean, I've been thinking about this for a long time

You need a more Macro view of this. They've been fanning the flames of hate and discontent for years.

They want panic in the streets because it creates the 'emergency' by which they seize more power and take away more freedom.

If a 17yr old with a rifle can clean house they have to come down hard and make an example, lest he become an inspiration to other people to take it upon themselves to solve problems Governor's and Mayor's seem content to allow.

No more emergency if looters and people bent on destruction and injury start turning up in the gutter the next morning.

We are not allowed to talk about the only way to fix this stuff.

It involves face to face um. Discussion with the people using their office to persecute political enemies.

Skookum said:

If the death penalty is never used, then the victim will never get justice.

The only equal to a life is a life. If the murderer isn't executed then his life has been proven more valuable than the victims.

Now as to what kind of conclusive evidence would be necessary, that is up for debate.

...and I'll head off one argument right away. Life in prison is not worse than death. Any day drawing breath is better than the eternal hell you know is coming, and it costs the tax payer millions to keep murderers from the meeting they have earned.

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I dont disagree though Id personally choose a quick needle over 50 years in the big house. My argument stems from one point only. If a mistake is made, and being humans we do make them, some are made on purpose. you can not give back a life wrongfully taken. Think how you'd feel if you got sentence to death knowing you were at home on the couch with your family.

Period.

I wish him the best of luck beating the lies they keep throwing out about him and wish him even more luck on his lawsuit deal while suing the media hope he gets them good . They totally deserve it for flat out lying like they do . Just to keep pushing there narratives Shame on them .

Colion Noir had a post on this the other day. Regardless if it was self defense, he believes they will go after him for a minor in possession of a firearm.

Due to current circumstances, they'll throw not just THE book at him, but every book they can get their bloody paws on to make a statement.

Skookum said:

That scenario of someone being completely innocent and completely removed from the crime is very rare.

It's not like the police are snatching innocent people off the street and giving them the death penalty before lunch. That just isn't how the police or the court system works outside of television. It takes weeks of preparation and case building on both sides to bring it to a conclusion. If someone is charged, they very likely had a part in the crime whether they did the killing or not.

As far as my life, I know where I'm going regardless. My life doesn't belong to me.

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I respect your position as LE but ...theres a LOT of bad shit that goes down. Look at it this way. We're all human. Humans are fallible. If you can view the spectrum of humanity as a bell curve, Some are saints, some are devils, and most fall in between. that holds true whether they are a mason(me) cop(you) DA, Judge, and on down the line. In any group there are those who are corrupt.

Go to the site I listed above, hell Ill relist it for you, and read through it . If they are finding that many how many more are out there?
unbiasedly. If youre not willing to invest a few minutes to read, then we dont have much basis for further discussion.
Innocence Project - Help us put an end to wrongful convictions!
www.innocenceproject.org

Skookum said:

I get what you are saying. I did take the time to read several of the stories. I don't doubt that these types of stories obviously exist. And for what it is worth, I believe the stories that are on that site. What we have is a difference of perspective. They have claimed a couple thousand overturned convictions, an some smaller subset of that are capital crimes.

But they are claiming that number by going all the way back to 1989. There are over 1,000,000 incarcerated adults in the penal system at any one time. So, just by sheer numbers there are bound to be mistakes and oversights... a lot of them.

If you compile only those alone and and only look at the growing pile it looks ominous, but look at it in comparison to the whole and it is very rare indeed. Even 5,000 cases out of 1,000,000 is .005%!!

If you hold up justice for the overwhelming masses because of the lack of a perfect system and the misfortune of the few, then which is the greater evil?

But think about it, every single one of those 5,000 cases would make a great expose for some communist TV type to make a special about. To bad mouth America and tell you how evil and unfair it all is. To get those types who hate and distrust authority by their very nature all riled up and bothered.

I'm not saying that nothing should be done. Those lives matter.

My vote would be a radical change in the appeals process, or changes to evidentiary rules, or maybe leaving the jury system behind and going with a panel of judges who actually know the law...but I'm not educated enough to propose what those changes might be, so I'll leave it there.

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Thanks.. As yuo said, "Those lives matter." Though to some degree I can see that one would get satisfaction from an execution of the one who harmed them or a loved one, Im not sure that in an absolute (Christ based) moral/ethical sense that is a good thing. And I speak in an absolute sense here, not necessarily that I live up to it. Id love to see the guy who killed the patriot in Portland found in a dumpster. But I dont say its right.

And Im not smart enough to figure it all out either, thats why I hold my position.

We may have to agree to dis agree in some points but I appreciate yur taking the time to think about it.

Rest well brother, be careful out there.

Maggot our.

Skookum said:

That scenario of someone being completely innocent and completely removed from the crime is very rare.

It's not like the police are snatching innocent people off the street and giving them the death penalty before lunch. That just isn't how the police or the court system works outside of television. It takes weeks of preparation and case building on both sides to bring it to a conclusion. If someone is charged, they very likely had a part in the crime whether they did the killing or not.

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Unfortunately, your claim is completely false and incorrect. That is why there are THOUSANDS of innocent people sitting in jail/prison right now. That is why dozens, if not hundreds of innocent people have been executed. There are hundreds of cases in NYC alone of people (usually young black men) being beaten into confessing (literally) or coerced. When that fails, the detectives lie and falsify reports and evidence. Even 20/20 and 60 minutes have done stories on NYPD corruption and NYPD framing innocent people just to close a case file.

Our founding fathers stated that the bar to convict should be so high because it is better that 99 guilty men go free than a single innocent man be sent to prison.

Our current police and judiciary believe it is better to put 10 or 20 innocent people away rather than let 1 guilty guy get away.
This is the crux of the problem. To them, it is a numbers game, winning at all cost and never losing; even when they have the wrong guy.

5000 out of 1000000 is 0.5%...

Edit:
Or 1 out of 200

M7rtim said:

5000 out of 1000000 is 0.5%...

Edit:
Or 1 out of 200

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Your numbers are a bit too optimistic. Too many bad cops out there. Not enough good cops willing to do the right thing and get rid of the bad ones.

You need to read Serpico. The movie sugar coats it. The book really gives a good insight. Chicago PD is no better and maybe even worse.
What about all those crooked cops stealing money from travelers during road stops? Latest numbers are over $3 BILLION confiscated from innocent people. The cops laughing at the people while doing it; bragging that you'll never get it back...

Maggot said:

Go to the site I listed above, hell Ill relist it for you, and read through it . If they are finding that many how many more are out there?
unbiasedly. If youre not willing to invest a few minutes to read, then we dont have much basis for further discussion.
Innocence Project - Help us put an end to wrongful convictions!
www.innocenceproject.org

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CURRENT STATS

1. The United States has 5% of the world's population, but 25% of the world's prisoners.

2. The total incarcerated population in the U.S. is a staggering 2.4 million — a 500% increase over the past 30 years.

3. One in every 108 adults was in prison or jail in 2012.

16. More than 96% of convictions in the federal system result from guilty pleas rather than decisions by juries.

17. Conservative estimates put innocent people who plead guilty between 2% and 5%, which translates to tens of thousands of innocent people behind bars today.

18. Eighty percent of defendants cannot afford a lawyer. Tens of thousands of people go to jail every year without ever talking to a lawyer or going to trial.

19. A public defender will routinely have a caseload of more than 100 clients at a time.

#17 is especially troublesome. Defense lawyers all say that a large number of cases involving innocent people result in guilty pleas with short prison terms because the accused can not afford to fight the charges.

If you are wrongfully accused of a felony and looking at a mandatory 5 or 7 year sentence. If you have a job and own a house, you don't get a PD, so you are looking at a $40,000 retainer with a total legal bill of over $100,000 or $150,000 for a trial. The DA offers you 6 months with a lesser guilty plea, what do you do? Most people can not afford a lawyer and the risk of 5 or 7 years is a huge gamble. The lawyers all tell their client the situation stinks, but, seriously consider the consequences of losing the trial and losing 5 years or more of your life.

This scenario is played out EVERYDAY in EVERY city in the USA.

You can sit behind your keyboard and say "I'll never cop a plea." But when you are sitting in a jail cell for 2 or 3 weeks and you know you are going to lose your house, dog, cat, car, truck, guns, etc just to fight it and 5 years of your life if you lose. You will most likely take the plea offer.

And that is part of the reason why there are tens of thousands of innocent people sitting in prison today.
DA's and LEO's don't care about innocence, they only care about the numbers, winning is all that matters to them.

Show me ONE cop that has stepped forward and said "I'm sorry" when an innocent man was released.
NOT ONE YET.
Even when the guilty guy had confessed years earlier but the cops and DA didn't want to admit fault and kept the innocent guy in prison until DNA proved his innocence.

Easy, we cower in our basements and keep our heads low, just like we always have.

This not as snide a comment as one might believe. My point is that the American populace has a long patience, is slow to respond with violence, and it's getting clear that nothing less will deflect the miscreants from their path of universal destruction.

We are going to need to begin seeing heads on pikes. The longer folks cower and simmer, the higher the pressure in the boiler rises.

Soon, it should be enough.

Nature will take its natural course.

Just wait and see...; literally...

As it was explained to me once, panic is a survival skill. When all other survival skills have been tried and failed, logic is clearly no longer a useful tool. At such times, the only thing left is to behave in a totally random and upredictable manner.

In such times, logic will get us all killed. OTOH, panic will save a few, enough to carry on the species. It is a long evolved final tactic, for when everything else has failed. We're still here, despite the absolute worst that human logic has wreaked upon the species down the ages.

Therefore, panic is a reasonable final alternative, and should be rendered the respect it deserves.

Its time is coming...

What we all need to understand here is that the Left is playing with the lock on Pandora's Box. They think that once they've cracked that lock, they can control the onslaught they will be unleashing. No, because what they unleash will be the end of us all, everywhere. Once begun, it won't stop until we are reduced to the stage of rocks and sticks.

They are too stupid to realize the wisdom of that old Chinese proverb warning the foolish to be careful about what they wish for.

Greg

Skookum said:

It isn't a LEO's job to establish guilt or innocence. It is a LEO's job to establish probable cause for the initial arrest. All a LEO has to go on is what he sees and gathers through his own senses and what he is told by witnesses.

For someone so verbose on the subject, you don't really seem to know how this works. So shut the fuck up please.

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No bitch, you shut the f*** up.
Dirty cops are the problem.
Good cops that don't turn in dirty cops enable the problem.
A*******s like you won't know the truth if it hit you in the face like a Mack truck.

Read Serpico, if you can, he laid out the truth that pricks like you try to bury.
If you were a half decent guy, you wouldn't be upset by the statistics being posted, you would be upset at the people who are abusing their badge and abusing the public they are supposed to defend. Instead, idiot like you enable them to prey on the public. You are no better than the dirty cops that steal from people and lie to put them in jail. If you were better, your anger would be directed at them instead of people like me who are willing to point out the truth and point out what they are doing is immoral and illegal.

......and another 180 day wonder enters the scene on day 60.

Skookum said:

Catching real bad guys is too much work so we just pick people at random.

You don't have to agree, but if you aren't going to make intelligent arguments then just shut up.

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I did make an intelligent point, unfortunately you got your panties up in a wad. Do some research on the numbers I posted above, they are accurate.
Problem is pussies like you have no reasonable response so you simple post stupid stuff like "NO, it's not true..." even though there are many articles quoting the same FBI statistics.
As far as too difficult to catch bad guys, apparently it is because there are so many cases of innocent people going to jail due to a dirty cop lying and falsifying a report and planting evidence.

A good cop would be upset at the dirty cop instead of being angry at me for pointing out the problem.

Since your brain is too immature to realize it, I never said ALL cops are bad. I have friends who are cops. We talk about this stuff and they are mature enough to not be upset about it. They know the bad cops make all cops look bad. But they don't get upset at someone for pointing out an injustice done by a dirty cop. They are disgusted by the dirty cop.

I think you are in the wrong trade. You are too immature to be trusted with firearms and a badge.
You are the type that would ignore a dirty cop and look the other way. Maybe that is why you are so upset about the previous posts since none of them were aimed at you or any other good cop out there.

You probably think it was OK when the cops pushed the 70 year old man to the ground and cracked his skull? A good cop would be disgusted at that abuse.

pmclaine said:

......and another 180 day wonder enters the scene on day 60.

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Stupid one liner irrelevant to the conversation.
Try posting something worth reading.
FYI, I was here many years ago but lost my log in/ screen name info. Thought that maybe the site was worth joining again; maybe, maybe not.
Quantity of posts and length of membership do not go hand in hand with intelligent or accurate posts. Usually, the guys with the most posts have the least useful info or input in the conversation...

BrianCinAz said:

Stupid one liner irrelevant to the conversation.
Try posting something worth reading.

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Homo says what?

When all else fails, resort to the homo crap or other false name calling bs ..........
Punks like you are why this country is such a mess. You are bad as the ANTIFA bitches and BLM bois

Depending how the election goes and whether Trump takes the gloves off, good people will have to stop caring about the law. If it’s gonna end in arrest and prison, so be it.
Kyle will be alright whatever happens. You think the woods upstate have any sympathy at all for race traitor BLM bitches? Fuck no. He’ll be welcomed and taken care of, probably even envied for representing us so well. Still gonna have to get down and dirty when called for, but he’ll be alright.

Bad, Dishonest, Abusive cops cost Baltimore $24.5 MILLION in the past 5 years.
Some even lied?!?! can you believe that?
I know 2 idiots who posted earlier today that will never admit it.....

let them come , Id rather explain my actions to 12 than be carried by 6 because I did nothing or see harm come to my loved ones to allow some trash to feel better about them self hell no he can feel good as he eats my bumper and asphalt .

In all fairness, this is how a good cop behaves.