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Rifle Scopes Zero Compromise Optic vs Tangent Theta video review

Covertnoob5

Covertnoob5

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    • Feb 12, 2017
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    Hey all, so as I mentioned, I did a comparison of the 2 scopes from a PRS perspective.

    If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask! I'll answer them as honestly as I can. It's a little long but I try to cover a lot of good info relevant to a comp style setting.

    Thanks for watching!

     
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    Thanks for the review I loved it.I agree on your point about the TT mag ring being so stiff,I have the TT315m and it is also very stiff.That is the only problem I have with the TT.My ZC4X20 is on the big brown truck in route to my hands.Im so happy to hear the mag ring is so smooth.
     
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    Great comparison vid brother!!! I also owned both scopes but mine is the bigger zcomp ..i pretty much agree with everything you said. That chassis look familiar though :)
     
    Awesome video. Agree with most everything.

    Did I understand it right though, you look at turret to dial to your closest mil and then while on glass, finish dialing? If so, if you already have your head up, I find it hard to believe you save time by not finishing out the last few clicks. Seems like you’ll actually take more time.

    While the turrets absolutely have a thunkier and better feeling turret in the TT, I cannot think of a situation where this actually matters in a practical situation. Unless the older and rarer MTC turrets.
     
    Moose said:
    Thanks for the review I loved it.I agree on your point about the TT mag ring being so stiff,I have the TT315m and it is also very stiff.That is the only problem I have with the TT.My ZC4X20 is on the big brown truck in route to my hands.Im so happy to hear the mag ring is so smooth.
    Click to expand...

    The mag ring is literally perfect tension. So you’ll enjoy it. Do you have a throw lever on your TT now?
     
    Dthomas3523 said:
    Awesome video. Agree with most everything.

    Did I understand it right though, you look at turret to dial to your closest mil and then while on glass, finish dialing? If so, if you already have your head up, I find it hard to believe you save time by not finishing out the last few clicks. Seems like you’ll actually take more time.

    While the turrets absolutely have a thunkier and better feeling turret in the TT, I cannot think of a situation where this actually matters in a practical situation. Unless the older and rarer MTC turrets.
    Click to expand...

    Thanks for watching! Yea that’s how I run it, it might be more a mental thing, I feel like I save time, but yea as I mentioned I think it comes down to shooting styles mostly. The nice thing about ZCO is because the reticle is so good you can save a lot of time by just holding for everything hahaha
     
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    Enjoyed your review!

    What, if any, benefits using "ultra short" scopes? What is the "wrap" you use on your scopes and purpose?

    Thanks again!
     
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    SIlabs said:
    Enjoyed your review!

    What, if any, benefits using "ultra short" scopes? What is the "wrap" you use on your scopes and purpose?

    Thanks again!
    Click to expand...

    The wrap is just black self adhesive medical tape. Works great with no residue if you take it off.
    On ulra short scopes, it depends on usage case. On a gasser is better for balance, if you run NV it gives you more room for that.

    One benefit from a PRS perspective I’ve encountered lately on a few stages, is I’ve been seeing a lot of porthole type stages where the port hole isn’t big enough to fit both your optic and forend in it. With a shorter scope you can fit more rifle in there to get closer to the center of gravity. Assuming no tripods can be used on the stage a short scope could be very beneficial.
     
    I agree with everything you stated but you put it into words better than I can.
     
    gebhardt02 said:
    @Covertnoob5 Thank you for your honest and candid review. It is appreciated.
    Click to expand...

    Thank you. It means a lot to know a company is willing to take the time to listen to thoughts about their product. Especially let’s all not forget it’s a first year scope that hasn’t been out all that long.
    I think it says a lot about the character of your company that you interact with us here on the Hide.
     
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    Nice review man, got to say though I'm a little disappointed that you didn't show the Bakersfield selfie
     
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    Covertnoob5 said:
    Hey all, so as I mentioned, I did a comparison of the 2 scopes from a PRS perspective.

    If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask! I'll answer them as honestly as I can. It's a little long but I try to cover a lot of good info relevant to a comp style setting.

    Thanks for watching!

    Click to expand...

    Very straight forward. Love My TT. Playing with the idea of another build and using ZC.
     
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    Meety Peety said:
    Nice review man, got to say though I'm a little disappointed that you didn't show the Bakersfield selfie
    Click to expand...

    Haha you're right. Definitely should've included that part. I actually have 2 selfies on that's stage since I used the Mulligan there
     
    Nice review. Being a hardcore S&B of all flavors fan for quite some time, I am pleasantly pleased with the TT525P-H59 in contrast. I'm yet to lay my sin-ridden fingers on a ZC.

    Still waiting on that Quigley-Ford PRS edition review too by the way ;)
     
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    AIAW said:
    Nice review. Being a hardcore S&B of all flavors fan for quite some time, I am pleasantly pleased with the TT525P-H59 in contrast. I'm yet to lay my sin-ridden fingers on a ZC.

    Still waiting on that Quigley-Ford PRS edition review too by the way ;)
    Click to expand...

    Thanks for watching! Yes I also just got a TTH59 and think it's pretty good. Although I can tell you now I'm not worthy enough to do a Quigley Ford review. That's above my skill level lol
     
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    Damn, makes me wish I could afford to get my hands on some TTs. Anyone have any TTs they would be willing to let me fondle for a few hours?
     
    This was a fantastic review and I appreciate you taking the time to give us a run down from a real world perspective, @Covertnoob5! One question (and I didn’t post this on the YouTube video in my comment), but the marks on the ZCO are obviously a lot brighter white than the TT. Did that have any affect on how you used it or was it a non-issue? I assume not since you didn’t mention it, but was just curious. Thanks again! Stuff like this is what makes SH such a great forum for education and insight.
     
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    Desert Raven said:
    This was a fantastic review and I appreciate you taking the time to give us a run down from a real world perspective, @Covertnoob5! One question (and I didn’t post this on the YouTube video in my comment), but the marks on the ZCO are obviously a lot brighter white than the TT. Did that have any affect on how you used it or was it a non-issue? I assume not since you didn’t mention it, but was just curious. Thanks again! Stuff like this is what makes SH such a great forum for education and insight.
    Click to expand...

    Thanks for watching!
    Umm it hasn’t been an issue for me at all, but I guess if you don’t have the best vision and it’s really dark maybe? From a PRS perspective I don’t think there are many if any situations at all where something like that would make a difference.
     
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    boomslang said:
    Damn, makes me wish I could afford to get my hands on some TTs. Anyone have any TTs they would be willing to let me fondle for a few hours?
    Click to expand...

    I’m sure you could find someone on here near you perhaps with one. Where are you located?
     
    sure do appreciate your time to make the video on these two great scopes. With zco only being out a few months it seems like they really have things figured out, I commend them on their success so far. I also wish them the absolute very best. looking forward to where they'll be after theyhave time to improve a bit here n there.

    Makes me wonder thoug, how can they deliver this level already and other big names like nf and Khales and Leupold seem to be behind? Is it a cost thing or what?

    Sorry for the typing, my keyboard sucks, trying to get better with it.
     
    ejames said:
    sure do appreciate your time to make the video on these two great scopes. With zco only being out a few months it seems like they really have things figured out, I commend them on their success so far. I also wish them the absolute very best. looking forward to where they'll be after theyhave time to improve a bit here n there.

    Makes me wonder thoug, how can they deliver this level already and other big names like nf and Khales and Leupold seem to be behind? Is it a cost thing or what?

    Sorry for the typing, my keyboard sucks, trying to get better with it.
    Click to expand...

    Kahles and NF sell many more optics than somewhere like zco and TT. And their availability is also mich higher.

    Financially speaking, I’d imagine putting in the amount of work to really mass produce while maintaining the same level of QC would be pretty high as well as a logistical nightmare.
     
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    Fantastic video review noob, succinct and to the point and the features that matter to PRS (and to other types of shooting as well). I've never fondled a TT but your comments about the turrets say a lot and basically reflect what most Hiders who own the TT have said. I have not had an issue with the turrets on my scopes (except for the most recent S&B 18 mil DT turrets on the ultra short 3-20, those are the worst I've experienced) and fear getting a TT at some point because I don't want to have turret envy - I don't know what I don't know ;) If you do get a chance to meet with ILya, I'll be curious to hear his thoughts.

    Again, sounds like the ZCO is the real deal, and I love how you said "I think ZCO is what Kahles was supposed to be" because that's what I thought when they were first announced and we found out Jeff Huber was the brainchild behind them. I love my Kahles K318i and it has been the best ultra short I've owned, you mentioned heavy CA in yours but mine has been comparable to both Schmidt ultra short 3-20s I've had which is to say it's handled it very well but not as good as my ZP5 (which is clearly not an ultra short design), but after I sell some of my AR's I don't "need" an Ultra short anymore, but something always draws me back to them.
    I've always thought the 4-20 range was the perfect middle ground (between 5-25 and 3-15) and with the ZCO turrets being much better than the Ultra Short turrets that may be one I have to look seriously at down the road.

    One thing I did want to ask, in the video when you're shooting from some positions you are putting your left hand over the scope was it just more comfortable that way or do you find that helps to steady the rig in certain positions?
     
    wjm308 said:
    Fantastic video review noob, succinct and to the point and the features that matter to PRS (and to other types of shooting as well). I've never fondled a TT but your comments about the turrets say a lot and basically reflect what most Hiders who own the TT have said. I have not had an issue with the turrets on my scopes (except for the most recent S&B 18 mil DT turrets on the ultra short 3-20, those are the worst I've experienced) and fear getting a TT at some point because I don't want to have turret envy - I don't know what I don't know ;) If you do get a chance to meet with ILya, I'll be curious to hear his thoughts.

    Again, sounds like the ZCO is the real deal, and I love how you said "I think ZCO is what Kahles was supposed to be" because that's what I thought when they were first announced and we found out Jeff Huber was the brainchild behind them. I love my Kahles K318i and it has been the best ultra short I've owned, you mentioned heavy CA in yours but mine has been comparable to both Schmidt ultra short 3-20s I've had which is to say it's handled it very well but not as good as my ZP5 (which is clearly not an ultra short design), but after I sell some of my AR's I don't "need" an Ultra short anymore, but something always draws me back to them.
    I've always thought the 4-20 range was the perfect middle ground (between 5-25 and 3-15) and with the ZCO turrets being much better than the Ultra Short turrets that may be one I have to look seriously at down the road.

    One thing I did want to ask, in the video when you're shooting from some positions you are putting your left hand over the scope was it just more comfortable that way or do you find that helps to steady the rig in certain positions?
    Click to expand...

    Thanks for watching first and foremost!
    Yes Illya and I have plans to meet this Friday, and compare the zco420, TTgen3, TTh59, and TT315M.
    Also, in regards to the “I think ZCO is what kahles was supposed to be” that was definitely a joint thought so far between Illya and myself.

    As to your question about my left hand, it’s to steady the rifle out. And it definitely works. Some guys don’t like to do it because they think it’ll bend their scope tube or something. I’ve personally never seen it, but just as a precaution, that’s why I run the raptor rail on my Spuhr. So it’s eating all the downward pressure.
     
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    Think it will bend their scope tube? What kind of scopes do they own that the tube would bend off of pressure from your hand? I guess that's a topic for another thread, I'll have to check that out next time I'm out, thanks for the tip.
     
    wjm308 said:
    Think it will bend their scope tube? What kind of scopes do they own that the tube would bend off of pressure from your hand? I guess that's a topic for another thread, I'll have to check that out next time I'm out, thanks for the tip.
    Click to expand...

    Yea you'd be surprised and the stuff I hear at the range. ? Last time I was at the range I was in conversation with someone who needed help with their AR15 and I asked if they planned to take it to 600y I could help spot. Looks at me and says “600 yards?! No way I don’t have a .50 cal” I just said oh ok and went back to banging the 4inch plate at 600 with my little old 6mm.
    But yea it definitely helps putting your hand or arm across the top of the objective. At least for me it does.
     
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    Great video and very informative! Thanks for taking the time to post. I have a question for the op...what throw lever do you have on the TT in that video? I appreciate your time.
     
    Covertnoob5 said:
    Yea you'd be surprised and the stuff I hear at the range. ? Last time I was at the range I was in conversation with someone who needed help with their AR15 and I asked if they planned to take it to 600y I could help spot. Looks at me and says “600 yards?! No way I don’t have a .50 cal” I just said oh ok and went back to banging the 4inch plate at 600 with my little old 6mm.
    But yea it definitely helps putting your hand or arm across the top of the objective. At least for me it does.
    Click to expand...

    Someone asked earlier how much your rig weighed because it didn't seem to move, was wondering if you had a 6mm... is it a 6 dasher or? Shot with canezach last year and he brought his 6 and let me shoot it, reminded me of a miniature version of my 7 SAUM but loved the smooth kick that little round gives. He kept ringing steel at a 1000 with it, wasn't as loud as my 7 but certainly loud enough to register hits, what a fun little round. I think if I were to build a purely competition rifle I'd have to seriously consider a 6mm. Years ago I almost got into benchrest shooting when the 22 PPC and 6mm BR were all the rage, who'da thunk that years later the tiny little 6 would become a fierce 1000y competitor!
     
    Thanks for the great review. Watching the video and looking at your scopes, are they wearing some kind of skin or wrap? I can't tell what I'm seeing.
     
    Covertnoob5 said:
    Yea you'd be surprised and the stuff I hear at the range. ? Last time I was at the range I was in conversation with someone who needed help with their AR15 and I asked if they planned to take it to 600y I could help spot. Looks at me and says “600 yards?! No way I don’t have a .50 cal” I just said oh ok and went back to banging the 4inch plate at 600 with my little old 6mm.
    But yea it definitely helps putting your hand or arm across the top of the objective. At least for me it does.
    Click to expand...

    We go to the same range.
    I can tell you some stories.

    ILya
     
    I love long range rimfire and I laugh when someone at the range tells me you can't hit anything at 400 yds with a 22 lr.Then I begin to pound a 10"x10" steel plate at 400.
     
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    lu270bro said:
    Great video and very informative! Thanks for taking the time to post. I have a question for the op...what throw lever do you have on the TT in that video? I appreciate your time.
    Click to expand...

    Thanks for watching!
    It's the aadland throw lever
     
    wjm308 said:
    Someone asked earlier how much your rig weighed because it didn't seem to move, was wondering if you had a 6mm... is it a 6 dasher or? Shot with canezach last year and he brought his 6 and let me shoot it, reminded me of a miniature version of my 7 SAUM but loved the smooth kick that little round gives. He kept ringing steel at a 1000 with it, wasn't as loud as my 7 but certainly loud enough to register hits, what a fun little round. I think if I were to build a purely competition rifle I'd have to seriously consider a 6mm. Years ago I almost got into benchrest shooting when the 22 PPC and 6mm BR were all the rage, who'da thunk that years later the tiny little 6 would become a fierce 1000y competitor!
    Click to expand...

    It's a 6BR. Super fun round and stupid accurate. I was dinging at 1020 yesterday at the range. I thought about a Dasher but I just didn't want to fireform.
     
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    Moose said:
    I love long range rimfire and I laugh when someone at the range tells me you can't hit anything at 400 yds with a 22 lr.Then I begin to pound a 10"x10" steel plate at 400.
    Click to expand...
    I'm not sure "pounding" is the right word for 22LR hits on steel, maybe "dinging" or "pinging" :D Seriously though, I am surprised how many don't understand ballistics these days, but I think long range sports like PRS, NRL, Sniper Challenge's etc. are bringing more awareness... not sure if that's good or bad though.
     
    wjm308 said:
    I'm not sure "pounding" is the right word for 22LR hits on steel, maybe "dinging" or "pinging" :D Seriously though, I am surprised how many don't understand ballistics these days, but I think long range sports like PRS, NRL, Sniper Challenge's etc. are bringing more awareness... not sure if that's good or bad though.
    Click to expand...

    I have a hell of a time hitting anything small at 400 yards with a 22LR, so I usually blame the rifle, the scope, the wind, etc.

    I think I need another 22LR rifle... Definitely.

    ILya
     
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    @gebhardt02 hey brother, any chance you know if a sunshade from a different scope will work? Or at least what thread pattern you guys use? Would love to get one. Thanks!
     
    Covertnoob5 said:
    Thanks for watching!
    It's the aadland throw lever
    Click to expand...
    Thank you sir! Just put my order in for one. From other posts I have read, these state as backordered due to them being manufactured at time of order. It looks quite a bit more substantial than some others I have seen. Thanks again for your time!
     
    lu270bro said:
    Thank you sir! Just put my order in for one. From other posts I have read, these state as backordered due to them being manufactured at time of order. It looks quite a bit more substantial than some others I have seen. Thanks again for your time!
    Click to expand...
    I think most of Jon's stuff is "backorder" because he builds on request for a lot of it, I bought his scope caps last year for my K318i and had them within 7-10 days even though it said "backorder". Jon makes great gear and back's it up - another friendly and knowledgeable member of the community.
     
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    SAMR said:
    Thanks for the great review. Watching the video and looking at your scopes, are they wearing some kind of skin or wrap? I can't tell what I'm seeing.
    Click to expand...

    It's just self adhesive medical tape.
     
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    I spent a few minutes with Covertnoob's 4-20x50 ZCO. It is a very promising scope. I will do a more thorough test at a later point, but basic optical quality looks very good and the scope is easy to get behind. We looked at it next to Tangent Theta TT315M I have which is the same scope I compared to K318i. I think ZCO is a solid step up from K318i. Optically, I think TT still ahs an edge, but it is a small edge. As a package, ZCO is extremely promising. Everything is done well. This is easily one of the most well rounded designs Iahve seen in a while and probably the best ultra short on the market now. I will need to spend some more time with it, but I think it has Bill's name written all over it.

    ILya
     
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    @Covertnoob5 great review and pumped someone took the time to create a video focusing on use and features. I do wish we had more ZCO style reticles available (.2 subtensions up/down/left/right plus a .2 grid that's a bit more simplistic). They nailed it.

    Again, Great video and solid review!
     
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    And I should also add I'm pissed that you just spent my money! Now I have to jump in line for a new ZCO! First world problems! ?.

    I think the 527 is the first scope that I could easily justify over my 7-35s and feel confident in the reticle, build quality and features.

    Damn wait times!
     
    Last edited:
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    Subwrx300 said:
    And I should also add I'm pissed that you just spent my money! Now I have to jump in line for a new ZCO! First world problems! ?.

    I think the 527 is the first scope that I could easily justify over my 7-35s and feel confident in the reticle and and features.

    Damn wait times!
    Click to expand...

    Lol the 420 is no slouch by any means. I like the reticle a lot, I love the features a lot. After spending a few more days at the range I literally can't decide if I'm gonna use the Zco420 or TTh59 at my next match.
    Thanks for watching though! Glad you enjoyed the review
     
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