Who has the right to ask to see a tax stamp?

[chevy_man]

I'm in Virginia and belong to a members only range. When checking in and you bring your suppressor you must get the serial number verified by the guy behind the counter(range representative). It's to make sure you own it legally and keep BS problems away from the club. I'm OK with that. All members are told to act and speak up when they witness "safety" related issues. Mention it to the person and then take it to the office. I'm OK with that too. Pretty laid-back club overall. Never had a member ask me anything about my suppressor except what brand it was..

That sounds like some commies run your range.
What the hell is wrong with people? You let them keep a copy of your stamp?


Then again I'll never understand going to a range with staff. We're all able to be safe all by ourselves 99% of the time, but we do have RO's for organized matches.

 

[hlee]

Akshully, supressors are firearms because the federal legislature defined them as such. In this narrow point, animosity towards the ATF is misdirected.

 

[chevy_man]

You're a moron if you carry the original stamp and inviting potential bullshit with the authorities if you don't have something to show.

They're legal for hunting here, so they are in almost every single gun shop. LE doesn't even think twice about them. I haven't ever found anyone who's even been asked.

If they want to make an issue to see a tax document, they can call the ATF. They'd need to verify it anyways, as it would be so easy to fake a copy.




Guess it's weird to live in a State where you're just left alone. I think some of you are so used to being hassled constantly you have a chip on your shoulder.

 

[akmike47]

They're legal for hunting here, so they are in almost every single gun shop. LE doesn't even think twice about them. I haven't ever found anyone who's even been asked.

If they want to make an issue to see a tax document, they can call the ATF. They'd need to verify it anyways, as it would be so easy to fake a copy.




Guess it's weird to live in a State where you're just left alone. I think some of you are so used to being hassled constantly you have a chip on your shoulder.

Lots of (incorrect) assumptions there.

I live where hey are trying to make cans over the counter like buying socks. also almost every single law office that deals with NFA in any state would say carry a copy as to not cause more hassle than necessary.

Just because you(you personally) do(or don't do) something doesn't make it the smart way of doing things.

 

[Mike Casselton]

It's a game where you play with yourself? Lol Congrats here's your prize shortbus:

Wait, I thought Branden was Shortbus.
I'm cornfuzzled now.

 

[hlee]

That sounds like some commies run your range.
What the hell is wrong with people? You let them keep a copy of your stamp?


Then again I'll never understand going to a range with staff. We're all able to be safe all by ourselves 99% of the time, but we do have RO's for organized matches.

Most of the US population lives in areas without easy access to public land, or private parcels large enough to shoot on. Living in flyover country has its perks, but most live stacked cheek to jowl on the coasts. Lob a bullet over the berm of Baileys house of guns and you’ll land it on the Sam Houston Tollway. That is not necessarily the case if you’re shooting out in the Utah desert with NutnFancy.

That said, leaving registration docs with a range?

 

[Mike Casselton]

They're legal for hunting here, so they are in almost every single gun shop. LE doesn't even think twice about them. I haven't ever found anyone who's even been asked.

If they want to make an issue to see a tax document, they can call the ATF. They'd need to verify it anyways, as it would be so easy to fake a copy.




Guess it's weird to live in a State where you're just left alone. I think some of you are so used to being hassled constantly you have a chip on your shoulder.

100% agree. I've never been asked, nor has anyone I know.

 

[madppcs]

I dont carry copies or pictures on me. My tax and financial records are my private property. If I was ever approached by any type of authority the burden of proof is on them. But I also wouldnt tell anyone to go fuck themselves either. I just wouldnt have any personal documentation to provide.

Now if they tried to forcibly take my property and disarm me would escalate this scenario to a whole new level. Now Im speaking from my own opinion, and I dont see (in my state) anyone confiscating NFA items if someone doesnt show a tax stamp.

 

[hlee]

There is an indoor range that has a notice that all NFA items must be possessed in accordance with applicable laws. No one has ever asked me about my stamp there. They claim to be one of the states largest silencer dealers, so no wonder they’re chill about it.

 

[akmike47]

100% agree. I've never been asked, nor has anyone I know.

Most haven't, but if da Popo do ask and you can say "let me whip this out" and they glance and move on instead of some long drawn out BS it's smart to have a copy.

 

[hlee]

I carry laminated copies of the approved form4s in my rifle case. If a peace officer with a badge wants to see, I’ll show to avoid hassle. Anyone else can fuck the fuck off.

 

[W54/XM-388]

The guy handing over the suppressor you bought from him.
He's got paperwork to fill out.
After that, he can't ask just for the sake of asking.

Usually, the ATF sends YOUR tax stamp to the person selling / transferring the suppressor.

 

[akmike47]

There is an indoor range that has a notice that all NFA items must be possessed in accordance with applicable laws. No one has ever asked me about my stamp there. They claim to be one of the states largest silencer dealers, so no wonder they’re chill about it.

The problem is usually some RSO that was given a tiny bit of power trying to flex.

a place back in the day and they'd(the manager) tell the prick RSO to fuck off when he hassled people about stamps.

They rented full autos and he would yell at the customers about rapid fire.....they rented a full auto you moron.

 

[RUTGERS95]

That sounds like some commies run your range.
What the hell is wrong with people? You let them keep a copy of your stamp?


Then again I'll never understand going to a range with staff. We're all able to be safe all by ourselves 99% of the time, but we do have RO's for organized matches.

agree

VA, one step away from NJ so not surprised he's ok with all that bs

 

[sled_mack]

Local range here has rule that says RO can ask to see proof.

Shooting there one day and there is a fudd there. He’s being a total dick to his daughter and son-in-law and grandsons. He gets tire of abusing his family and comes over dem to see the paperwork for my suppressor. I asked him if he was with ATF. He went off the rails. He got the RO to come over, who I’ve talked to many times. RO says “he’s fine “ and walks away.

So know the range rules and who can ask.

 

[hlee]

Usually, the ATF sends YOUR tax stamp to the person selling / transferring the suppressor.

Except that with the efile system they email an approved form 4, with digital stamp, to the owner. Print it and head to your dealer.

 

[huntingthem]

This is right out of the Bayou Rifles Club Rules - 2022. This includes guest.

3.9. The use of legally owned sound suppressors or short barreled rifles is allowed. Appropriate federal paperwork must be available for inspection by any club member upon request....

Any club member??
That means you'll have a line of nosey fuckstains trying to throw their weight around
Fuck that non 2A club, It's run by Liberal assholes.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

100% agree. I've never been asked, nor has anyone I know.

That’s because freedom lives in FL

 

[John_in_WYO]

According to atf.gov, under Federal law : The US Attorney General, specifically an ATF Agent or investigator are those to whom you must display proof of registration, upon request.



Section 12.1 Maintaining proof of registration. The NFA requires that a person possessing a firearm registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR) retain proof of registration which must be made available to the Attorney General, specifically an ATF agent or investigator, upon request.184

184 26 U.S.C. 5841(e)


I have never seen in print that one is required to carry proof/copies etc… when out shooting or hunting. I consider that a myth until someone can direct me to existing federal or state law that specifies such requirement.

I’ve read nothing that specifies local or state agents or private individuals have the authority to compel production for review to their satisfaction.
Each state may vary. Your state attorney general should be able to give you advice n your state’s requirements.

I hope this helps.
There is a lot (mis?)information floating around that may have originated based on past experiences or information.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

According to atf.gov, under Federal law : The US Attorney General, specifically an ATF Agent or investigator are those to whom you must display proof of registration, upon request.



Section 12.1 Maintaining proof of registration. The NFA requires that a person possessing a firearm registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR) retain proof of registration which must be made available to the Attorney General, specifically an ATF agent or investigator, upon request.184

184 26 U.S.C. 5841(e)


I have never seen in print that one is required to carry proof/copies etc… when out shooting or hunting. I consider that a myth until someone can direct me to existing federal or state law that specifies such requirement.

I’ve read nothing that specifies local or state agents or private individuals have the authority to compel production for review to their satisfaction.
Each state may vary. Your state attorney general should be able to give you advice n your state’s requirements.

I hope this helps.
There is a lot (mis?)information floating around that may have originated based on past experiences or information.

This is the correct answer

 

[akmike47]

That’s because freedom lives in FL

But all the old people are always worried about if your trespassing at the neighborhood pond

 

[Mike Casselton]

That’s because freedom lives in FL

Yeah, it's almost shocking.
Thanks to people like Gov Desantis and our AG Ashley Moody, people that follow the laws are left alone.
The shit stains that live on the lower east coast need to move back to NY and NJ and take their shit politics back to their shithole state.
Otherwise, yeah, we're the Gunshine state.

 

[John_in_WYO]

This is the correct answer

And it only took 119 posts.

 

[Mike Casselton]

But all the old people are always worried about if your trespassing at the neighborhood pond

Fuck those pre-Boomer mofos.

A fishing buddy and I turned the screws to an entire condominium complex by doing some research.
They had no fishing signs everywhere. With research, we're found they were posting public waters. That's a felony down here.

They called the Tampa PD on us and we stood our ground. Told Tampa PD to contact the Florida Fish and wildlife commission.
We waited.
Then we presented our case with the the proper ownership maps along with use maps.

The condo association was cited for posting public waterways.

We fish there any time we want now.
Fuck those NY shitheads and the horse they rode in on.

The snook, tarpon and Black drum fishing is awesome and it's right next to downtown Tampa.

Jim with a nice Snook right in the middle of their "private waters."

 

[akmike47]

Fuck those pre-Boomer mofos.

A fishing buddy and I turned the screws to an entire condominium complex by doing some research.
They had no fishing signs everywhere. With research, we're found they were posting public waters. That's a felony down here.

They called the Tampa PD on us and we stood our ground. Told Tampa PD to contact the Florida Fish and wildlife commission.
We waited.
Then we presented our case with the the proper ownership maps along with use maps.

The condo association was cited for posting public waterways.

We fish there any time we want now.
Fuck those NY shitheads and the horse they rode in on.

The snook, tarpon and Black drum fishing is awesome and it's right next to downtown Tampa.

Jim with a nice Snook right in the middle of their "private waters."
View attachment 7961864

Morons here "you can't fish by my dock it's private".....the dock is the water is public dummy even in marinas since it's a navigable water way.

I don't like people, but much prefer the Cubans over the New Yorkers.

 

[DocRDS]

anybody can ask for it but...

From what I understand only 2 entities that have the authority to enforce it and that is the ATF (NFA authority) or an Officer of the Department of Treasury (Tax stamp authority)

everyone else can go fuck themselves at your descretion. can some range safety officer actually check if your stamp and NFA serial is valid? No, so I would reach into my pocket and pull out my middle finger.

This was my understanding as well, along with "it does not need to be immedate" aka ATF/Treasury cannot snag you on a firing line and demand to see your stamp. You can arrange a meeting to provide "proof"

IANAL

Now back to the shit-show.

 

[LeftyJason]

How so? both pieces of equipment require a license to operate….

A tax stamp is a receipt of a tax paid. It is a tax receipt not a license.

 

[7.62willdo]

A tax stamp is a receipt of a tax paid. It is a tax receipt not a license.

Do you need the license to operate the car?
do you need the stamp to operate the suppressor?

 

[akmike47]

Do you need the license to operate the car?
do you need the stamp to operate the suppressor?

Yes on public roadways
No, anyone can “operate” the suppressor with the owner around or as a trustee. Everyone doesn’t need a stamp to use your can, but they would to operate your vehicle.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Do you need the license to operate the car?
do you need the stamp to operate the suppressor?

no, just no.

 

[Thumper580]

That sounds like some commies run your range.
What the hell is wrong with people? You let them keep a copy of your stamp?


Then again I'll never understand going to a range with staff. We're all able to be safe all by ourselves 99% of the time, but we do have RO's for organized matches.

No not keep a copy, just visual verification of the serial numbers on the can and paperwork. This is a club on private property. Huge tracts of open public land don't exist in VA, unlike BLM land out west.... It's a good club and stupid stuff seldom happens.

 

[SilentStalkr]

What I think is insane is that there's nothing about a suppressor that makes it a firearm.
It's nothing more than a muffler

Not even a very good one at that.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Now that I think about it, a good F-1 suppressor model name would be Magnaflow.

 

[AngryKoala]

Nah liberal arts is gay as fuck. Is that us embracing? Feels good man.

This could be us, but you're playing hard to get. Obviously that’s you in the black hat
View attachment 7961602

Been waitin here at the damn ranch for two days for you homos to show up and get this threesome goin. Damn peckers about to fall off from this leash.

Now who's playing hard to get?

 

[M4orturnate]

Again, who has the right to ask to see the stamp and/or paperwork?

As far as i know its only agent of the us treasury. It could be a rule at certain Ranges or clubs to use it.

 

[vinniedelpino]

When I got my first suppressor I asked every RO I came across if they wanted to see my paperwork before shooting.

Every one of the looked at me as if I just asked if they wanted to to see my wiener.

Looking back, it was embarrassing.

 

[powdahound76]

When I got my first suppressor I asked every RO I came across if they wanted to see my paperwork before shooting.

Every one of the looked at me as if I just asked if they wanted to to see my wiener.

Looking back, it was embarrassing.

My GF was recently watching her 4 yr old nephew.
Shower time and he was down to his skivvies and about to drop em and hop in.

“Now Im gonna let my wiener out!”

Few weeks later, his mom reminded him to wash up all his parts good with soap.

“Of course, this is my precious wiener”


Just made me chuckle, on the subject of wieners and all.

 

[OldSalty2]

Life has taught me it only takes one person to fuck up a good thing for many....

How that applies here, I leave each to decide.

 

[918v]

Again, who has the right to ask to see the stamp and/or paperwork?

Anyone. In the United States of America everyone has freedom of speech.

 

[MadDuner]

Nobody has ever asked me for anything.
Yes. I do believe I live a charmed life. So Far.

 

[Baron23]

@GenericBadGuy @akmike47

Ah....maybe you guys might want to get a room together...yeah?

 

[atomic41]

"M'am, I'm going to need to see your tramp-stamp"
--me if I was an AFT agent

 

[Short-bus]

The last time I went to a public range I was shooting suppressed. I had some guy ask me if he could see my stamp. I told him no, because it has private info on it, and he's not LEO or ATF. He huffed, and said he was going to call the police, I said go ahead, and went back to shooting. Finished my range session, and left, police never showed up. I haven't been to a public range since. Too many retards go there to tell lies of their rifle that shoots one hole but they didn't bring it that day, and the rifle they're shooting looks like 25 yard buckshot patterns. I also love the guys that dress like they're zeroing their shit on their way to invade Iraq.

The world is full of tools, douchbags, and guys who's $70 tasco can do everything my $4K Steiner can do.

Branden

 

[jrhtx]

And just like that, any desire that I had to join Bayou rifles vaporized. Not to mention fuck a whole lot of applying to be on a wait list to maybe at some point in the future be considered for admission. Fudds gonna Fudd...

Yeah its legal. Get the ATF out here if you want to see proof.

This is better than it was years ago. You had to submit to the board to shoot suppressed and then have the board approval letter with you. I was never asked then and have never been asked since the new rules for any paperwork. I have been a member a long time and always have something suppressed with me.
Is there a Fudd mentality? Yes, but the liability there is huge for the range, not for suppressors, just stupid people. Recently there have been issues with the gate codes being given out and people shooting that are not members. Development around the property will probably force closure in a few years. They had to install "baffles" as they call them 2 years ago to keep people at the 100 from shooting over the berms. And the baffles were shot full of holes within a few weeks. The 200/300 and the 1K have few shooters. Most can't hit a 3'x3' target at 300. You have to qualify to shoot the 600/1K.

Do I like it? No but I'm not going to shoot at American Shooting Center. Been there, done that, ain't going back.

As far as joining, there is a waiting list every year to join. It is so large now they had to start drawing names.

 

[Rover31]

@RMB ,
Haven't read all of this, someone may have asked,,,
Why did you not ask who he was and why would he need to see the tax stamp?

doesn't matter if you are a guest or a private range or what ever, Who TF are you? is what I would want to know?

I don't like showing my "documentation" to "random" people unless there is a real reason for them to truly need it. Far too much personal info to just be handing it over to just anyone.

 

[cast1]

This is right out of the Bayou Rifles Club Rules - 2022. This includes guest.

3.9. The use of legally owned sound suppressors or short barreled rifles is allowed. Appropriate federal paperwork must be available for inspection by any club member upon request. The device must be in compliance with all local, state, and federal rules and laws related to possession and use of such device. Any other firearm or device that requires federal approval with a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives tax stamp to own or use is prohibited.

Also known as the “Range Karen clause”.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

No doubt I would be kicked out and banned from a place like this. and yes it would be worth it.

 

[hlee]

Tangential, but still related. The shotgun club where my son practices has 2 signs at the door to the club house. "No guns allowed..."

 

[GenericBadGuy]

@GenericBadGuy @akmike47

Ah....maybe you guys might want to get a room together...yeah?

View attachment 7962155

Only if you are the rudderman.

 

[Baron23]

Only if you are the rudderman.

I can tell you really studied How to Make Friends and Influence People!