I am so hard right now
Lol
Mkm had a “road hunter” stage at a 2 day this year. Was great.
I agree. More stages shooting off of and out of vehicles.
Lol
Mkm had a “road hunter” stage at a 2 day this year. Was great.
I agree. More stages shooting off of and out of vehicles.
In for bad intel on target locations, target distances and live fire paintballs coming inbound for “realistic” scenarios.
Admittedly I find tripods in real life an important skill.
That being said, I think tripods at PRS is part of the game and honestly I don’t like the direction it’s taken. I got it, I got it… competition, who cares what equipment? I know, this in general..
I do not like when the MD sets up a course of fire and says deploy on the clock and basically makes the stage exceedingly difficult without a tripod. That’s BS. I’m not buying a 2 pull gamer tripod to beat the PRS game. To me it’s not worth it to others it clearly is.
I think that is lame and as a MD I won’t run a stage where that is a factor. Even at field matches we offer a position to gain elevation knowing some of my shooters will not have quality tripods. So I give the guys the option.
A benefit of the inverted ones for other uses is it keeps the feet , locks and internal legs out of mud snow dirt etc
Yes for someone who uses a tripod it is definitely a skill that should be practiced. I do not disagree with that at all.
As to PRS as a whole, well haven’t been a fan in a long while but it’s one game and their rules. I like shooting “outlaw matches” which used to be called matches lol as they do offer more variety. And again I am not saying people shouldn’t or can’t use a tripod in a match but revolving more stages around a tripod isn’t the way to go at all. The way you do it sounds good in that they can use a tripod or your elevated position.
I guess I haven’t really looked at them, they’re all pretty dang tall fully collapsed right?
It was bigger than I expected. I have a 34 and 22i
Shocking how much bigger it is just carrying it or throwing in a vehicle.
The ease of deployment / adjustment and that inverted legs for when it’s muddy / snowy are big advantages though
Gotcha, I’ll admit, I’ll play the game! I got a 34L and it’s my one size fits all, from mamonth to hunting to spotting on the line. I always like something that can pack down small for packing in the ruck.
That being said, I hope no one thinks I’m bitching here, if gaining a slight advantage in PRS meant getting this type of tripod. Begrudgingly I’d get one, I’m a competitor and collecting trophy’s is something I try to do every match I go to. So I understand the competitive nature. It’s just that PRS isn’t my primary focus at the moment, maybe one year.
I think the way I see it is; bipods can be pre deployed, dope dialed, target distances known.. why can’t tripods as a general rule be completely deployed too? I think that would be my solution.
That’s an interesting point. If the stage is intended to really test your use of a tripod, the tripod itself, if not the actual interface of the tripod and rifle itself, should be a stage setup.
The other issue though, and it can be addressed with the supply of a tripod at the stage, is the cost of entry to new shooters. I know that this is a consideration by and for many MDs when designing stages.
We often tell people here to just jump in and attend a match with just their bag, rifle and good dope.
I like the stages with tripods included.. hell I’d have 2 and guys could practice with the back up off the clock while waiting their turn. Just my thought.
I see what you’re saying; it’s 2 facets, are you testing the ability to shoot from a tripod or your ability to deploy a tripod? I’ll have to consider that going forward.
Earlier it was said and I agree, unless the MD specifically says hey no tripod at this stage… then every stage is open to the competitor to use one. Which as you know some guys are damn quick and efficient with that tripod rear support. I’m ok but there’s a few shooters who I need to take a lesson from.
I used one at a Michigan match after the MD set up a stage in a trailer bed that wasn't high enough to see the targets over the corn. Bunch of dudes were using multiple bags, a 4x4 etc to get up high enough. I set up my tripod, dropped my bag on top and used it like a barricade.
Couple of the other competitors were mad and argued it was a prone stage. RO allowed it and so did the MD. Even if they would have said I had to shoot it from prone, I probably would have just splayed the legs out a little more and shot from high prone.
Couple of the other competitors were mad and argued it was a prone stage. RO allowed it and so did the MD. Even if they would have said I had to shoot it from prone, I probably would have just splayed the legs out a little more and shot from high prone.
I'm a firm believer that if you can carry it, you can use it. These matches that get butt hurt about people who use tripods, then say nothing about other gear like triple pull bipods, bags that weigh 45-lbs, etc. makes no sense.
As mentioned previously, why make people "deploy" their tripod from fully collapsed and/or attached to their pack, but allow you to pre-dial your scope, and have your bipod legs pre-adjusted? More stupid rules made by stupid people.
Sure, I don’t disagree. Then you have the getting much more common guys showing up with carts to wheel around a truckload of various gear from stage to stage. Again, the terrain and geographic location make a difference.
So, some matches will restrict you to what you personally carry from stage to stage. Easy peasy right? But wait, someone is bitching about how that gives stronger people in better shape an advantage (which is how it should be, but I digress). The bitching never stops and and MD cannot and should not try to please everybody. So they create their match based upon their decisions.
People will always bitch about something. Rarely to your face, but they get home and start moaning on social media. Wait! What? That happens? Shocking!
So a match must have a set of rules to start off with. Don’t like those rules? Go elsewhere. Pretty simple really.
Been waiting forever to use this meme. (Talk about berating and beating a dead horse)
For LR competitions in natural terrain, I'm a fan of rules that allow you to use whatever you can carry for the entire match, but require deployment on the clock. If it's too much to carry or takes to long to deploy, then you will not be competitive. For hunting, its pretty much the same thing by necessity.
As some have stated: why deployment on the clock? Every match I have ever competed in allows you to set elevation/windage, mess with your bipod, load magazine, set parallax, etc. before the stage. Why not a tripod?
Just playing devil's advocate here.
Why have a tripod stage when you can shoot off of a contrived prop with a bag specifically designed for said contrived prop?
#shootsmarternotharder #barricadebenchrest #tunersforlife
#shootsmarternotharder #barricadebenchrest #tunersforlife
Because shooting off a tripod is no different. Set tripod up, drop bag on top of tripod and it's just like every other barricade at every other match on the face of the planet, only its more expensive, adjustable and you get your choice of running different sized plates or no plate at all.
A tripod stage doesn't have to be that way...
But I will say the current state of PRS competitions have really sapped a lot of imagination and creativity out of how stages can be constructed and shot. A rejuvenation of creativity and strategy would be fun.
If I have a bag of any kind available and i always do because a Git Lite Schmedium and Solo Sac live in my truck and rifle case, I'll never clip into a tripod. Literally one of the worst ways to shoot off a tripod.
I like how PRS is run so we'll have to disagree on that one.
Some enjoy doing the same thing over and over.
I enjoy having to use creativity, problem solving and strategy.
To each their own.
I enjoy creativity as well but the addition of a tripod to a stage changes almost nothing and an MD dictating how that tripod, or any piece of kit is used, saps any and all creativity from that stage design.
There's definitely ways stages can be designed to drive the shooter to employ more creativity and strategy, with or without tripods.
I dont disagree. You can add running, problem solving, tactical stuff etc but the market for those types of matches is small.
As an example
We have an MD in the region who takes the line in the rulebook about stage design being "tactical" in nature, literally. He had 60ish people show up to his last two day. He lost the match in 2022 due to lack of attendance, so he held an outlaw match set up the same way. Even fewer attended. The 65 year old dude with double knee replacements and the 14 year old that can barely lift their rifle, don't want to attend matches like that, generally speaking.
By contrast, we have another MD here in Wisconsin that does a pretty good job of designing creative stages, with minimal gear restrictions if any and no emphasis on the tactical Timmy BS. He has sold out every year and has to add slots the last two years. His one day matches bring in more shooters than most two day matches every month.
I understand the "practical" argument guys make but reality is, practical is different for everyone. Hauling a 25lb rifle, a tripod and 16lb Whiskey Charley Max bag into the woods for the 9 day gun hunt this weekend is as practical for most Wisconsin hunter as hauling a 7lb mountain rifle and a light pack is for most western hunters in the mountains.
sniping deer at 1004yds
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Best way to walk around shooting guilty animals. Quickest and easiest to carry
I agree.
There's lots of different ways to approach it, and not all of them are going to keep current shooters engaged. I would even argue that the current crop of top shooters enjoy the current contrived format - It's predictable, not overly challenging and leads to very high scores. Arguably the PRS is captured by the crowd that wants every stage to be of a similar, familiar format so they have a decent possibility of cleaning it, over a stage that would actually present a unique challenge that needs to be overcome in real time through strategy.
I would personally LOVE it if matches evolved in a way that required the shooter to use more creativity and strategy. But PRS seems to be going in the other direction - where stages are contrived and very similar to one another, with little challenge. A certain faction wants that, maybe even a majority of current PRS shooters. I personally got bored of shooting them because of it, but maybe I'm in the minority.
Anyways, I didn't intend to go in this direction. But I do think some creativity could go a long way in this sport for making things more fun and exciting for shooters that want that. But if all shooters want is every stage = walk 3 steps, place bag on contrived prop, shoot 2 MOA target, then so be it.
Dude the problem is when people want to combine competitions and “practical shooting.”
I shoot matches because I like to compete and I find the community to be one I like. Practically, I know out west hunters who kill elk in jeans using 06 every year. Practically a sniper I respect who definitely did a lot of “work” finished mid pack at mammoth and worse at a PRs match we shot together. Practically I’m taking him on my team next deployment not the guy who beat him shooting off some silly barricades. No offense.
My outlook is they’re separate categories. I do believe training, and matches are training, can make someone more prepared for higher stakes scenarios. But they’re probably overrated in the “practical” conversation. The tactics of getting into the right position for either application is the real practical challenge. In my opinion.
No doubt, but is the point of a match to test the shooting ability of a marksman off the most stable platform possible? Or, is it to test the abilities of the marksman off less than ideal positions? Go shoot F-Class or BR if this lights your fire. PRS/Tactical steel is mostly Positional with some prone.
Working snipers don’t stand there with all gear in hand waiting for their spotter to say engage , build a position and then shoot 10 shots in 90 seconds off a rock or a barricade.
In some respects the game is a lot more difficult than “real life”, in others it’s laughably not.
Don’t get your panties in a twist because
Ba-dee-ya, and Ba-du-du, ba-du-du, ba-du-du, ba-du-du aren’t real words. They make the song awesome.
Agree whole heartedly. I go to compete, nothing more and nothing less and I like that PRS has gotten away from the "tactical" and "practical" thought process.
That's the beauty of where things are at right now.
If a guy wants to do the race gun thing, there's plenty of matches to accommodate that.
If a guy wants to do a hunter type match, there's matches for that
If a guy wants to do an adventure race with guns, there's matches for that.
If a guy wants to dabble in all three, no one is stopping him. Hell, I even dabble in my buddy's "practical" match, more to support him than for the actual enjoyment of it because I believe more matches and variety are a good thing.
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Here's my observation, opinion, experience, etc.
With MDs in general being lazy, and less creative these days, the other thing is "Evolution".
Unless you keep your head in the sand, or just set in your stubborn ways, you can't help but notice that not only the way people get creative in overcoming a difficult match stage with new techniques and equipment, but also the way the Hunting and Military world are adapting those same new techniques and equipment. 20-years ago, the use of tripods were very rare to non-existent. Now tripods are utilized by many across the board (Matches, Hunting, Military).
It's a two-fold problem, as MDs create more convoluted stages, shooters evolve into how they overcome those convoluted stages by introducing new equipment, or add a new shooting technique. This adds cost to the match by having to purchase more equipment, and then MDs try to limit that equipment, ban it, or create stupid and unrealistic rules that don't keep up with changing times, it's a viscous circle.
Here are some examples, MD says you have to sling or attach to your pack a collapsed tripod, in reality more and more hunter's in the West, are carrying their tripods extended with binoculars attached, primarily to glass their hunting area, and as a back up to use as a rifle support when shooting over terrain, vegetation, or at high angles. Having that mindset as a MD that every Hunter carries their tripod collapsed is not being realistic. The other thing that's unrealistic is the opinion or belief that everyone carries their bipods folded and collapsed. So what do I do? I go and purchase a specialized tripod that has longer legs, and instead of having twist or lever locks, you just extend it to where you want it, and it stays put. It's a specialized tripod that was developed for situations where quick set up is essential in fast moving photography. I wouldn't use it for hunting or true field use because it's very heavy, but to play the NRL Hunter game of having your tripod stowed/collapsed I was forced to use it to to make up the critical time lost of using my traditional light and compact CF tripod and trying to deploy it.
When I'm in the field, I carry my tripod extended, so I can quickly deploy it for either glassing/ranging or shooting support, and a back up as a hiking staff when in rugged terrain. I keep my bipod legs out, and rest those legs on my shoulder as a way to carry my rifle, as I prefer not to use a sling. It's also quick and handy to have the legs out so you can quickly ground your rifle while getting into position with your tripod.
These stages that are convoluted also cause more financial expense in equipment race game.
Example, MD started introducing more stages where you're not allowed to dial, or par time is 90-seconds for a 10-target stage so Christmas Tree reticle scopes became the rage, and added to the equipment race. One match I regularly attend that requires you to start the stage with your scope set to zero, one time I shot it with just hold overs the entire match (Tremor 2 reticle) just to prove a point, even though there's ample time to dial. I was shooting the stages soo fast the RO/spotter couldn't keep up with me, was kind of funny.
Another example, last few PRS/NRL matches I attended, I carried a huge support bag, something like a 24-30" cube. One match in particular I was squaded with a bunch of top PRS shooters from Oklahoma. At the beginning they were poo pooing my bag, and looking at me like I was crazy, but then half way through the match they're all wanting to use it. Thought it was funny. I'm done with PRS, but if I ever shoot one again, I have the desire to show up with a big 5-ft diameter beanbag chair, and dressed in a clown suit.
With MDs in general being lazy, and less creative these days, the other thing is "Evolution".
Unless you keep your head in the sand, or just set in your stubborn ways, you can't help but notice that not only the way people get creative in overcoming a difficult match stage with new techniques and equipment, but also the way the Hunting and Military world are adapting those same new techniques and equipment. 20-years ago, the use of tripods were very rare to non-existent. Now tripods are utilized by many across the board (Matches, Hunting, Military).
It's a two-fold problem, as MDs create more convoluted stages, shooters evolve into how they overcome those convoluted stages by introducing new equipment, or add a new shooting technique. This adds cost to the match by having to purchase more equipment, and then MDs try to limit that equipment, ban it, or create stupid and unrealistic rules that don't keep up with changing times, it's a viscous circle.
Here are some examples, MD says you have to sling or attach to your pack a collapsed tripod, in reality more and more hunter's in the West, are carrying their tripods extended with binoculars attached, primarily to glass their hunting area, and as a back up to use as a rifle support when shooting over terrain, vegetation, or at high angles. Having that mindset as a MD that every Hunter carries their tripod collapsed is not being realistic. The other thing that's unrealistic is the opinion or belief that everyone carries their bipods folded and collapsed. So what do I do? I go and purchase a specialized tripod that has longer legs, and instead of having twist or lever locks, you just extend it to where you want it, and it stays put. It's a specialized tripod that was developed for situations where quick set up is essential in fast moving photography. I wouldn't use it for hunting or true field use because it's very heavy, but to play the NRL Hunter game of having your tripod stowed/collapsed I was forced to use it to to make up the critical time lost of using my traditional light and compact CF tripod and trying to deploy it.
When I'm in the field, I carry my tripod extended, so I can quickly deploy it for either glassing/ranging or shooting support, and a back up as a hiking staff when in rugged terrain. I keep my bipod legs out, and rest those legs on my shoulder as a way to carry my rifle, as I prefer not to use a sling. It's also quick and handy to have the legs out so you can quickly ground your rifle while getting into position with your tripod.
These stages that are convoluted also cause more financial expense in equipment race game.
Example, MD started introducing more stages where you're not allowed to dial, or par time is 90-seconds for a 10-target stage so Christmas Tree reticle scopes became the rage, and added to the equipment race. One match I regularly attend that requires you to start the stage with your scope set to zero, one time I shot it with just hold overs the entire match (Tremor 2 reticle) just to prove a point, even though there's ample time to dial. I was shooting the stages soo fast the RO/spotter couldn't keep up with me, was kind of funny.
Another example, last few PRS/NRL matches I attended, I carried a huge support bag, something like a 24-30" cube. One match in particular I was squaded with a bunch of top PRS shooters from Oklahoma. At the beginning they were poo pooing my bag, and looking at me like I was crazy, but then half way through the match they're all wanting to use it. Thought it was funny. I'm done with PRS, but if I ever shoot one again, I have the desire to show up with a big 5-ft diameter beanbag chair, and dressed in a clown suit.
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Whether your an 11-year old first time Hunter with 6-1/2 lbs rifle, or a huge guy that weighs 250 and looks like an NFL linebacker, and sporting a 25-lbs rifle, what's the difference? It's what ever you're comfortable carrying, that's reality.
There is a difference in cherry picking what reality is in one piece of gear but not others. That’s for the whole “matches are training” crew. Train like you fight right?
Oh and don’t forget all the carts and baby strollers pushed by those westerner mountain hunters. Lol
I'm sure it's the next thing to come along, but I envision a baby stroller with electric motor to help get that equipment up those steep hills.
Was the the LR Shooters Retreat?
Meh I use my Atx for hunting all the time
I don’t carry the gamer plates or heavy fill GC tho lol
I wish there were Hunter style matches on the east coast. As long as it isn’t find your target style. Ion blind id never find any unless they were heated and I could use thermal.
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Based on all the tools we carry, Bipod, Tripod, Rests/Sticks & Bags...
The tripod is easily the most universal piece of kit we use. You can shoot every single position from prone to standing that is supported using a tripod.
If I had to walk across the USA and solve any number of shooting problems, from water to mountains, the tripod solves them all based on the shooter and not based on the rules of nature. In other words, you set the rules with a tripod where any other type of support is subject to rules. A bag is limited to where it is placed; a bipod is limited by its size, and even a sling is limited by time, the rifle system, and accuracy.
So being able to shoot anything can only really be accomplished with a Tripod unless you adapt to someone else's rules. That someone else could be nature.
The goal should be to deploy the tripod on the clock in the most realistic manner.
If they said you can only use one, bipod or tripod, give me a tripod
The tripod is easily the most universal piece of kit we use. You can shoot every single position from prone to standing that is supported using a tripod.
If I had to walk across the USA and solve any number of shooting problems, from water to mountains, the tripod solves them all based on the shooter and not based on the rules of nature. In other words, you set the rules with a tripod where any other type of support is subject to rules. A bag is limited to where it is placed; a bipod is limited by its size, and even a sling is limited by time, the rifle system, and accuracy.
So being able to shoot anything can only really be accomplished with a Tripod unless you adapt to someone else's rules. That someone else could be nature.
The goal should be to deploy the tripod on the clock in the most realistic manner.
If they said you can only use one, bipod or tripod, give me a tripod
One of the ways to incorporate a tripod is to use the loophole concept.
Make it, so the tripod is needed to align the rifle to the proper height to clear an obstacle. Deployment on the clock should have started three years ago to work that problem better, but most of that ship sailed.
Old SH Stage.
Make the height specific to the target.
The reason the "out west" matches are becoming more popular is the lack of rules. Out west, we use terrain and nature to set the terms of the stage. So put a bush or rock between you and the target. So the use of a tripod is almost universal. Every default to a tripod where the rules say nothing because it allows the user to determine the position. And most likely a position they practiced.
If they opened the door at a PRS match, you'd watch everyone step back 6" from every prop, drop a tripod, and set their own rules. It would get boring for them very fast.
However there are ways to filter them in and actually make it practicaL
Make it, so the tripod is needed to align the rifle to the proper height to clear an obstacle. Deployment on the clock should have started three years ago to work that problem better, but most of that ship sailed.
Old SH Stage.
Make the height specific to the target.
The reason the "out west" matches are becoming more popular is the lack of rules. Out west, we use terrain and nature to set the terms of the stage. So put a bush or rock between you and the target. So the use of a tripod is almost universal. Every default to a tripod where the rules say nothing because it allows the user to determine the position. And most likely a position they practiced.
If they opened the door at a PRS match, you'd watch everyone step back 6" from every prop, drop a tripod, and set their own rules. It would get boring for them very fast.
However there are ways to filter them in and actually make it practicaL
Best thing about a tripod is you can flip it over and the 6.5 CM guys can have somewhere to sit.
I do the same as you describe, both with tripod and bipod; was actually just saying this to a friend last night who asked about a bipod on a hunting rifle, that this is what I do but most hunters prefer a sling, for better or worse. Diff’rent strokes an’ all.
Just wanted to chime in when you described exactly my method that I see nobody else using haha
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